PdV regretting Mapoe missed opportunity
18 Aug 2010
GRANT BALL says that Peter de Villiers’ panic to see Lionel Mapoe on the field again highlights his selection mistake last year.
The latest reports on the Mapoe transfer saga suggest that De Villiers wants to get involved. The Bok coach wanted to meet with Mapoe, his agent Jan-Harm van Wyk, and Sharks commercial director Rudolf Straeuli on Wednesday morning in order for the wing to play as soon as possible, but the meeting was apparently postponed.
Mapoe clearly doesn’t want to play for the Cheetahs, despite an arbitrator ruling in favour of them and that he must return to Bloemfontein.
De Villiers’ intent to see the player back on the field is admirable, but it just emphasises how big an opportunity De Villiers missed last year. A number of senior Boks want Mapoe drawn closer to the squad, and in order for him to be selected for the Grand Slam tour, he needs a decent run of games to build up his confidence after five months out with a shoulder injury (he last played on 20 March).
There is no doubting Mapoe’s ability and the fact that he should have been in a 37-man squad last year, but this is yet another example of the coach bowing to the demands of the senior players. It may be the right selection, but it will possibly be a year too late and although De Villiers wants to bring him into the squad, he may only be able to do that in the year of the World Cup, when he should’ve done so two years before the event.
De Villiers now runs the risk of picking Mapoe and trialling him internationally – which should have been the case last year – when he’s not at his best if he doesn’t get a decent Currie Cup run. That would be a travesty for the player.
What makes it worse is the individuals De Villiers selected ahead of Mapoe. De Villiers said last year that Earl Rose was a better option.
‘If you look at the wings from all the top six unions, they all could have been selected. I looked at guys like Earl and Juan de Jongh and selected them ahead of Lionel due to the make-up of the squad and the team dynamic. Lionel was one of the unlucky ones though.
‘We’ll use Earl as a fullback on this tour, but he’s equally good at outside centre and flyhalf, and we can use him there in future.’
De Villiers’ glory boy, Rose, now plays club rugby in Johannesburg and isn’t good enough for a Lions squad sixth on the Currie Cup log. Mapoe, who was last year just ‘as good as any of the wingers at the top six unions’, is now on De Villiers’ radar. That shows just how much De Villiers regrets that mistake.
De Villiers has hinted that he’ll rest some of his senior players for November’s Grand Slam tour, although he has contradicted himself on many occasions before. If he picks inexperienced players less than a year before the World Cup, he can’t afford any of the errors of last year in selecting players such as Rose, Davon Raubenheimer, Ashley Johnson, Riaan Viljoen, Heinke van der Merwe and Heini Adams.
A key part of coaching is identifying talent and getting the best out of them. De Villiers’ supposed strength is his man management, but in Mapoe’s case the consequences of him making a grave mistake are only now coming to bear.
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177 Comments
18 Aug 2010, 10:24 am
First blog ever so here goes: -
Agree Mapoe should have been in the squad last year, think he’s better than Van den Heever who all the Bulls supporters want selected. Needs to play some rugby this year though
In addition it must be terrible to be a fisrt choice provincial scrumhalf in this country, you are never going to be picked for the boks, second choices, flyhalfs and wings are all picked ahead of you!
18 Aug 2010, 10:25 am
Riaan Viljoen and Ashley Johnson wasn’t a mistake. They where the best in that team. missing in action Dragon
18 Aug 2010, 10:25 am
Mapoe is not that hot at the moment. PDV should rather take Mvovo on the EOYT.
18 Aug 2010, 10:26 am
Should I have said Dragons or something?
18 Aug 2010, 10:27 am
As I said Mapoe needs to play, agree with you on Mvovo, looks like he has some potential
18 Aug 2010, 10:30 am
@Drewster(Drewster)-4: Welcome to the blog. It is customary to start a new blog with a contextual reference as dragons.
18 Aug 2010, 10:32 am
@Drewster(Drewster)-5: Just click on the little arrow next to the name to reply directly. What will be the minimum amount of Currie Cup games he needs to play to be ready for the EOYT? 4,5,6?? He is running out of time. Yes you should of said Dragons. lol
18 Aug 2010, 10:32 am
Thanks for the welcome
18 Aug 2010, 10:33 am
While we at it , why not pull in Jantjies from the Lions. Get him ready for the future because in my eyes he’s going to become a very good player in the future.
It’s time for SARU to get a decent system in place identifying young tallent and work with them. We can’t lose these young players to clubs overseas.
18 Aug 2010, 10:35 am
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami)-7: Dont know if I would pick him for the end of year tour, lack of game time.
18 Aug 2010, 10:36 am
Mapoe is good but he has not played any rugby lately so on form the best wings in sa is van den heever, JPP, Mvovo and Hougaard
Habana is not what he was and should spend some time back at Wp or on the wood.
My backline would look like this
15 F Steyn
14 JPP
13 J Fourie
12 J di Villiers
11 Van den Heever
10 M Steyn
9 F Hougaard
18 Aug 2010, 10:37 am
@Andre_WP(Andre_WP)-9: Jantjies does look good. Lots of time and effort should be invested in him.
18 Aug 2010, 10:37 am
@Andre_WP(Andre_WP)-9: Please give him at least two full provincial seasons first
18 Aug 2010, 10:38 am
Mapoe impresses with the way he is able to finish off a move.
18 Aug 2010, 10:38 am
een woord.
Basson
maak asb oop jul oë…. coach
18 Aug 2010, 10:39 am
@groenie(groenie)-11: Aplon?? or are you considering for Fullback?
18 Aug 2010, 10:40 am
@groenie(groenie)-11: I would play hougaard ahead of van den heever and play any one of the first choice provincial scrumhalfs at number 9. Other wise you backline is good.
18 Aug 2010, 10:41 am
@Staal(Staal)-15: Forgot about him. Great finisher and lots of *Gas*.
18 Aug 2010, 10:41 am
@Staal(Staal)-15: Enige woord dat hy die Bulle gaan join?
18 Aug 2010, 10:41 am
@Staal(Staal)-15: Basson did look good in those 5 minutes he played for the boks
18 Aug 2010, 10:44 am
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami)-16:
I forgot about Aplon, he was great in the super 14 and against France. lets see how he goes at fullback on Saturday
@Drewster(Drewster)-17:
Yes that can also be a good call, because that way you keep the pace but strengthen the defense. I like to see Vermaak get some more time in the green and gold!
18 Aug 2010, 10:45 am
@Andre_WP(Andre_WP)-9: why pull him away?
the NZ brains trust seem to be doing him a world of goos seeing how they view backline play
keep Jantjies and Francis under King Carlos for awhile longer and see how they blossom
18 Aug 2010, 10:45 am
Why would the Bok coach get involved?
Surely this is nothing to do with him? It’s for Cheetahs, Mapoe & Sharks to sort out.
18 Aug 2010, 10:46 am
@Staal(Staal)-15: Any chance of Basson at the Bulls in the future?
18 Aug 2010, 10:47 am
@Drewster(Drewster)-13: For sure , but i think it would be a good idea to just get him into the bok setup, see how the guys practise and run etc. I think he’s got a big future ahead of him. He realy impressed alot of us on Saturday when we watch the game.
18 Aug 2010, 10:48 am
Van den Heever is a one trick pony if there ever was one. Why does he get so much hype?
18 Aug 2010, 10:49 am
@renoog(silent_shadow)-26: pace, same as Spies.
18 Aug 2010, 10:49 am
@Andre_WP(Andre_WP)-25: What good does that do, they will probably play him at lock or something. Let John Mitchell and Carlos Spencer mentor him
18 Aug 2010, 10:51 am
Basson at the Bulls?
Maybe… if he declines the better offers he’s getting…
Bulls won’t brake the bank for him….
and he got the mesage…
18 Aug 2010, 10:52 am
@renoog(silent_shadow)-26: Agree, have yet to see what everyone else see’s. Spends most of his time in the sinbin anyway. Plus the way the bulls played in the S14, John Smit could have played on the wing and scored as many tries
18 Aug 2010, 10:58 am
I havnt seen much of Mapoe, so i cant judge. But i would realy like to see Mvovo get a chance at the end of the year with the boks. He is playing brilliant rugby for the sharks.
And i agree that Jantjies and, maybe more so, Lambie must realy get involved with the bok setup at the end of year tour. Two great talents and there is still time to get them both ready for world cup time next year. We need fresh blood!
18 Aug 2010, 10:58 am
Guys there is only two wing spots open for the WC squad. So it is between: Basson, Nokwe, Odwa, Vd Heever, Mapoe, Aplon, Mvovo, Aikona
18 Aug 2010, 10:59 am
Hi Grant. I see that you and your cronies will get anything to bash PDiv, no sense of perspective in your articles. Last year we won. It was the senior players victory, you guys wrote. Now tha we lose, how can it be PDiv’s fault? If PDiv is so useless, where were the senior players when he won with the world under 21s championship the same victories as Jake White? Are you then going to say again that he had the best players at his disposal and that is why they won, thereby implying that they could coach themselves.
Nonsense…
PDV like any other coach, will make bad and good calls. Graham Henry made bad calls in his tenure, Jake did as well, but the barrage of criticism knows no bounds when it comes to PDV. what i dont see with you guys is recognising the good. it does not exist and your articles therefore remain biased and unbalanced and smack of desperation of trying so hard to ridicule.
18 Aug 2010, 11:01 am
@Drewster(Drewster)-30: Aside from his finishing and speed he has virtually nothing else to his game. Like a slight upgrade on Jongi Nokwe.
18 Aug 2010, 11:08 am
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami)-32: Ok so if you weed out the obvious no-no’s you are realistically left with Mapoe, Mvovo, Aplon (fullback cover so he has an edge)& Basson. I don’t see hekkies or any of the others making it…
Your thoughts?
18 Aug 2010, 11:11 am
@Drewster(Drewster)-4: First blog ever, or first #1 comment ever?
Ja man – if you get the #1 comment you must always use “Dragons”
18 Aug 2010, 11:12 am
@renoog(silent_shadow)-26: Because he is a very talented player who is still young. He scores a hell of a lot of tries, makes good runs, and is quite elusive. He has improved his defence and will only get better.
He is far more than a one trick pony.
18 Aug 2010, 11:14 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-35: I would like to see Nokwe and Aplon making the squad. I am a big fan of Nokwe.
18 Aug 2010, 11:14 am
grant you write so much **** I wonder if there’s enough toilet paper @ your offices…divvy is not sole selector!
18 Aug 2010, 11:14 am
@Lubabalo Swana(lubabaloswana)-33: Well said Lubabalo – and lots of other people here have said the same thing – there is never an answer from the “journalists” at Keo.
If there is something good, its the players, if its bad, its PDiv’s fault… ridiculous.
18 Aug 2010, 11:17 am
@THEBokFan(bokfan1)-36: First Blog, it was just more a#se than class to get the number 1 comment
18 Aug 2010, 11:17 am
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami)-3: Agree on Mvovo but to say that Mapoe is not that hot at the moment is laughable. The guy hasnt played since March. How the hell can he be hot? Read the article again.
On Mvovo I agree – he should be there for EOYT but cos De Villiers is such a muppet he cant see talent thats before his eyes now. So now he´s looking back a year. The guy is such a bloody joke it unbelievable. Mapoe should have been picked but no we have Davon Raubenheimers and dumbass Earl Roses and Ricky januaries ffs.
18 Aug 2010, 11:19 am
@mountaingoat(mountaingoat)-39: Another good point!
Also – if the senior players have so much power over selection that they can now demand that Mapoe be brought closer to the squad, and apparently this was desired from last year – then why couldnt the senior players use this apparent influence they have, to get the SELECTORS (plural – PDiv is only one of them) to pick Mapoe then?!
There are gaping holes in the conspiracy theory
18 Aug 2010, 11:19 am
@renoog(silent_shadow)-34: Think Nokwe is better
18 Aug 2010, 11:19 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-37: And there aren’t enough other wingers around who already fill the criteria of making runs and being elusive?
I’m not saying he won’t become a very good player in the future but I don’t see where all this hype comes from or why people want him playing for the boks now.
Because right now he is a one trick pony. His defense is poor, he’s not strong under the high ball, his work rate isn’t high and he goes missing if the ball isn’t spread to wings.
18 Aug 2010, 11:21 am
@renoog(silent_shadow)-45: By goes missing i mean he doesn’t get involved enough in other parts of the game. And with the game the boks play right now, it would be completely pointless having him there.
18 Aug 2010, 11:24 am
@Lubabalo Swana(lubabaloswana)-33: PDiv is a joke mate. if you havent realised that yet then youre not seeing the facts. He picks his favourites who strangely enough have mostly all played under him at junior level. He´s been making ridiculous selection choices since his first game. And dont tell me that picking Earl Rose and Ricky Januarie repeatedly is not solely Puff Divvys choice. He is practically in love with them. They certainly werent senior players choices I can tell you.
18 Aug 2010, 11:24 am
Habs and JPP are the top, what’s after them? Well you never really know because traditionally we like to select a few CC “flyers” who must then be discarded the next season. So if it’s Chavanga last year it must be Nokwe, then Basson, maybe Mapoe, don’t forget Mvovo or Mjeveku…
There’s also van den Heever, maybe Hougaard at 11?? And remember Aplon is actually a 14..
Bear in mind of course the Ndungane bros of course and maybe Joe Pietersen
jeez, who’d be a selector??
My money is on Pdvivvy and the guys going back to the best traditions of SA rugby and finding some dude who is even newer and more unknown thans all of the above as the “shocker” for the EOYT. And then of course dropping the guy, who is next seen playing false bay 2nds..
18 Aug 2010, 11:24 am
@Drewster(Drewster)-44: youre wrong
18 Aug 2010, 11:26 am
@renoog(silent_shadow)-26: Absolutely. Anyway, only the die hard Bulls supporters in general are in united mass hysteria about VD Heever.
He does not look for work on the field and will not make it at international level.
@groenie(groenie)-11: Only two changes I would make are Aplon for F Steyn and Basson for VD Heever
With reference to Jantjies and Mapoe et al, they should not be taken on EOYT’s and devaluate the Bok jersey. What good did it do the likes of Johnson, Raubenheimer, Fortuin, Viljoen, Adams, Rose, Lobberts, Owen Nkumane – to name but a few – in their development as players?
We should select the best possible players every time the BOKS play and forget about development of youngsters in the Bok team. They should be developed in their provinces and franchises.
Players must know that when they don the GREEN AND GOLD it is because they are deemed to be the best NOW and not a prospect for the future. The attitude of being a future prospect is very dangerous because when do you make the distinction between being a future prospect and a present star? Future prospects do not take responsibility and they never do.
18 Aug 2010, 11:26 am
What a pointless article
18 Aug 2010, 11:27 am
@renoog(silent_shadow)-45: I differ dude, his defence has improved a lot, his work rate has improved in the Currie Cup and he has got really involved. He has made some great runs from kick offs, and also when returning kicks.
SA rugby really doesn’t have many elusive wings. Nokwe hasn’t done anything since 2006, Habana is really struggling – something isn’t right there, Aplon looks to have a future as a full back, and we have JPP.
Then there are Basson (very good), Mvovo (after a handful of Currie Cup games and Super 14 games) and then Hurdles who out of those has done the most.
Mapoe has not done anything since the Currie Cup last year – he was luke warm in the Super 14, and then became arrogant and decided he deserved better despite only having had one good Currie Cup campaign. Him and Quade Cooper must be twitter friends or something.
He is ruining his own career, along with Kaptein Staaldraad.
18 Aug 2010, 11:30 am
@Marino(Marino)-48: I actually rate Hougaard highly on the wing, for me he’d be a starter on the right.
I don’t rate him at all on scrumhalf on the other hand. There’s barely a difference between him and Januarie at 9 in terms of styles.
@Drewster(Drewster)-44: I don’t think there’d be much difference between the teams if Nokwe and van den Heever swopped unions. Nokwe would be the one with the hype though.
18 Aug 2010, 11:32 am
@Lubabalo Swana(lubabaloswana)-33: I think this argument is a little stale. However, to indulge you – Graeme Henry took some serious flack from their media and supporters. There was an outcry when he was reappointed as coach. PdV is not above criticism and the influence of the senior players on his thinking and his style is a fact that he himself has acknowledged.
The feeling among bloggers and journo’s is that it is time that Div pulls in the reigns on the senior players and he starts coaching the team. He should take responsibility as a coach because the loss of form of some of the senior players is affecting their preferred style of play. They are not willing to adapt to the faster pace of the game because that will show up their physical shortcomings even further.
18 Aug 2010, 11:33 am
racheltjie i have to agree
when white players were in limbo like alberts he had no concerns
now its a player of colour and he has his thongs in a twist
double standards i tell ya
now i personally hope this gets soughted ASAP for the playersw and unions sake
if the Sharks want him just buy him out of that contract from a team that pays some of their players poorly ( i ask is it because he is a non white?? ) not right he ia quality player
i hope i am wrong in suggesting that
18 Aug 2010, 11:34 am
Roar
18 Aug 2010, 11:36 am
@renoog(silent_shadow)-53: Good point about Hougaard
18 Aug 2010, 11:36 am
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-47: In fact Slummie, he is NOT a joke. YOu might remember that Jake White (strangely considered a god by some on this site) was accused of EXACTLY the same thing – picking his favourites, and even when those players were going thru a slump.
Therefore, if PDiv is a “joke” that means so was Jake White, and therefore, if PDiv is on par with Jake (both of them being “jokes” for selecting favourites, having terrible 3rd seasons etc) then surely we are ok, as we know how Jake’s 4th year turned out?
18 Aug 2010, 11:37 am
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-42: The article speaks about Mapoe possibly going on the EOYT. I was just stating that, that would be ludicrous because he is not match fit. Agree with you Mvovo should go on the EOYT along with JPP, Nokwe and Basson.
18 Aug 2010, 11:39 am
agreed yagami
mapoe has been out the whole year
he should be no where near bok selection till he has the chance to play again
hopefully that is soon
i know he was seen chatting to plumtree yesterday at the sharks training
who knows wtf is going on
18 Aug 2010, 11:41 am
@THEBokFan(bokfan1)-58: really flawed and sub standar reasoning and arguments. Perhaps you may consider that Jake Whites favourites were actually good players and just perhaps PDV´s were always failures? You going to tell me Earl Rose is just going through a slump and all of a sudden he´s going to become fantastic? And ricky Januarie? Sell by date is over. He was good – what he´s going through is no slump. He´s on a downward slope.
18 Aug 2010, 11:42 am
I say stuff Mapoe … he signed the conract which is 100% ligit.
Mapoe now pitch up or negotiate a release like a man and stop acting like a doos.
18 Aug 2010, 11:45 am
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-60: If the sharks buy Mapoe for a fee, will this initiate transfer fees as we have in Football?
18 Aug 2010, 11:48 am
What is the point of this article?rubbish article by a rubbish writer.What did Pdv do to this Keo okes,or maybe that night on that night in question,Pdv was with the girlfriend of one of Keo’s clowns.so much to grind shame.
18 Aug 2010, 11:49 am
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami)-63: If so who do you guys think will be the most expensive player and how much will his worth be?
18 Aug 2010, 11:53 am
@Bantu Beeko(Koos van der merwe)-64: Yeah, there is so much of the same **** going on at the Boks week after week that the writers have to look elsewhere for “news” to prevent repeating themselves. I must say, this article is so devoid of substance that its not even funny
18 Aug 2010, 11:54 am
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami)-63: i dont know yagami but he has a signed contract and he should play it out or if the sharks whom i support want him , pay the fee
18 Aug 2010, 11:56 am
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-67: of course they have to pay for the remainder of his contract , which i think is till the end of the currie cup
since getting injured , he has only been ready to play now for 2 weeks
te sharks also covered his medical costs , so not sure how they will work it
18 Aug 2010, 11:57 am
The Ultimate Bok 15:
15.Andre Joubert
14.James Small
13.Japie Mulder
12.Peter Muller
11.Pieter Hendriks
10.Henry Honiball
9.Fourie du Preez
8.Gary Teichman (c)
7.Ruben Kruger
6.Schalck Burger
5.Mark Andrews
4.Victor Matfield
3.Balie Swart
2.James Dalton
1.Os du Randt
16.John Smit
17.Marius Hurter
18.Krynauw Otto
19.Andre Venter
20.Joost van der Westhuizen
21.Hennie Le Roux
22.Percy Montgomary
Random!
18 Aug 2010, 11:57 am
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-61: Hahahaha ok man, good point about Rose – but he has never been a regular starter in the Bok 22 has he?
Januarie is also a good point this season, but he has played very well for PDiv since 2008.
Shall I remind you of some of Jake’s favourites like:
De Wet Barry (kept on getting picked loooong after his time was over)
Albert V d Berg
Wayne Julies
Solly
Sephaka
Jaco vd Westhuizen
All of these players played MUCH more regularly under Jake than Rose or Januarie have under PDiv. And some of them were dependable or solid without being fantastic. Some of them had good spells of form, and then bad form.
But Jake was lambasted, and frequently, for picking these guys….
18 Aug 2010, 11:59 am
useless article
And who says PdV is going to take Mapoe on the end of yr tour? From what I can see he just wants to see a possible prospect on the pitch playing rugby.nothing has been said about Mapoe ursuping any of the other candidates.All innuendo & speculation in the article with little tangibles..another “open secrets” article.
And those questioning his involvement,Jake White got involved in contract issues of Wayne Julies in 2004.wanted to see one his protégée playing top class rugby as he wasn’t contracted at the time but White chose him for Boks anyway.so give that sh*t a rest.
And in hindsight it was blessing in disguise for Lionel Mapoe not to get involved in that shambles of a tour plus at the time his fitness was questionable(had heavy strapping on left knee & came off in CC semi last yr a couple of weeks b4 EOYT)
Another BS article with little or no purpose.
18 Aug 2010, 12:08 pm
and slightly off the topic,how well is Elton Jantjes playing? Highly rated by Mitchell
When all & sundry were saying he was rubbish & couldn’t have been the best u20 flyhalf in the country…seems to be handling CC quite well…
18 Aug 2010, 12:14 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-69:
Danie Gerber?
Habana?
18 Aug 2010, 12:17 pm
terrible article- grafting rubbish at its best.
great player though, hope things work out for the guy- definitely my new comer of the season- much promise
18 Aug 2010, 12:21 pm
@Couchcoach(GI POT)-50:
I was at Newlands last Saturday and saw first hand that VD Heever is cack!!
The guy looks ‘ongemaklik’ when tracking back to help his fullback.
He is one of the most overrated players in SA.
I can think of quite a few:
Spies
VD Heever
Ebersohn twins
Rory (Sharks)
Lionel Cronje
Steggman
18 Aug 2010, 12:22 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-71:
Dude, you’re a legend man!! Good comment!!
18 Aug 2010, 12:22 pm
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-47:
Wynand Olivier?
Is he a senior players choice or is PdV in love with him also?
“He´s been making ridiculous selection choices since his first game.”
Why don’t you prove that by putting up his very first team and then point us to the “ridiculous selections” in that team.
@Jeez(Jeez)-51: @Bantu Beeko(Koos van der merwe)-64: @Couchcoach(GI POT)-66:
Agree.
Rose who “‘We’ll use Earl as a fullback on this tour, but he’s equally good at outside centre and flyhalf,” is now the reason why PdV did not select Mapoe at WING.
Grant will always find a stick to hit PdV with.
18 Aug 2010, 12:26 pm
Elton won’t go very far .. lets face it, if he plays for the Lions his career is doomed … no other options open for him – He wont make the Bulls side, he won’t make the Sharks side ..he wont make the WP side ….
18 Aug 2010, 12:29 pm
Overrated XV :
Zane
G VdH/M Killian
Mapoe/Murruy
WO
B Basson
E Jantjies
January
A Johnston
Raubenheimer
Flo
Flip vd Merwe
Lobberts
Brok
Chilliboy
CJ
18 Aug 2010, 12:31 pm
Mapoe shoud first sort out his contractual issues. Mvovo is an excellent wing, but I have my reservations about
Nokwe defensively frail and naive and falls over his feet often
Basson pacy but not that defensively sound
Some comment re Mapoe during the S14 ly one must remember that he played for most games at outside center.
And one other comment that is old and stale is the Rose issue. This oke is gone and forgotten, We dont hear okes being pissed at Div for selecting Olivier for 30 odd test and produced jack or Spies who for the last six tests has done nothing but run from touchline to touchline.
18 Aug 2010, 12:36 pm
this is a bullsh*t article! Pdv picked hougaard to go to the eoyt at 9, hougaard hadn’t played 9 in a year at the time and he duly lost us the game against saracens. Did the Bulls play ball & give hougaard game time @ 9 in the super14? The answer is no, now we’re left with fdp out, ruan out and a hougaard who last played 9 consistently only 2yrs ago!
Now has all of this helped the national setup?
If Mapoe didn’t get injured, he would’ve played a whole season and got gametime but to blame pdv for it, is inane!
18 Aug 2010, 12:36 pm
My end of year tour team considering we have to rest our senior players,blood some new ones and give game time to players recently injured/suspended/etc. Also, I don’t want to give away too many caps for free, so if there was a toss up, I gave preference to the guy who has played for the boks before
15. Steyn
14. JPP
13. JDJ
12. Lambie – He can learn a lot from Butch on his inside, my long term flyhalf option. Can switch him and F Steyn around in defence if required, due to his age/size
11. Mvovo – looks great for the guppies
10. Butch
9. Hougaard
8. Duanne
7. F Louw
6. Potties (C)
5. Hargreaves
4. Rossouw
3. Jannie
2. Bismarck
1. Beast
16. Liebenberg – Chilly if politicians interfere
17. CJ
18. Flip
19. Kanko
20. Kockett – With Fourie retiring and Ruan overseas, him and Hougie will be my 2 scrummies
21. Grant
22. Mapoe
18 Aug 2010, 12:40 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-69:
14.James Small
13.Japie Mulder
12.Peter Muller
11.Pieter Hendriks
you must lay-off that durban poison
18 Aug 2010, 12:40 pm
The ‘senior players’ “want Mapoe closer to the squad”, the ‘senior players’ prefer the “kick-chase” option and thus want Hougie as scrum-half, and Butch as f-h and FDuP in the stands when they are training. I say ******* the ‘senior players’ as they are just players and have not ever proved that they ever have coaching abilities and thus must clearly be acting in their own self-interest. They need to rid the team of their cancerous selfs/ a r s e s and thus act in the total interset of the South African national rugby team. They are decrepid and “profoundly mentally deficient” for the demands of this game.
Better still label the group of non-blacks who instructed PDiv. in Feb. 2008 to beg the ‘senior players’ to return from Europe to totally bastardise thegame and land it in the sorry mess it presently is. But then they cannot, can they now as those money – moguls have always treated this game of rugby as if it is their own personal toy to control and break if they want to?
18 Aug 2010, 12:41 pm
@bored@work(bored@work)-82:
Bakkies at 4, not Rossouw. Rossouw to move to the bench and Flip out of match 22
18 Aug 2010, 12:50 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-55:
Hey dude,
Have you ever considered that maybe Alberts is not in his plans for the Boks??
I mean he has Spies, Kanko and maybe Vermeulen to call upon!!
Wasn’t Duane in his plans last year when he named a large training squad but then he got injured and couldnt attend.
My point is that maybe he didnt get involved cos he doesnt rate Alberts as highly as he does his current 8th men??
18 Aug 2010, 12:52 pm
@bored@work(bored@work)-82: My team
1. Beast
2. Chiliboy, Bismarck
3. BJ, CJ, Jannie
4. Bakkies, Flip
5. Hargreaves, Kruger
6. Flo
7. Smith ( C), Potgieter
8. Kanko, Vermeulen
9. Hougaard, Ricky
10. Butch, Lambie
11. Nokwe, Odwa
12. JDV ( vc)
13. de Jongh, Adi
14. JPP, Basson
15. Aplon, Kirchner
18 Aug 2010, 12:57 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-68: his FS contract is until the end of 2011.
so if big ears wants him he will have to pay big bucks.
18 Aug 2010, 12:58 pm
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami)-87: Players to rest/condition/injured: Guthro, Smit, Matfield, Danie, Bekker, Burger, Brussouw, Spies, du Preez, M.Steyn, Habana, Olivier, Fourie, F.Steyn.
These players will have a rest period of 2 months September-October. Then attend a 1 month conditioning programme in November.
18 Aug 2010, 12:59 pm
Vs Ireland
1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. BJ
4. Bakkies
5. Hargreaves
6. Flo
7. Smith ( C)
8. Vermeulen
9. Ricky
10. Butch
11. Nokwe
12. JDV
13. de Jongh
14. JPP
15. Kirchner
16. Chiliboy 17. CJ 18. Flip 19. Potgieter
20. Hougaard 21. Lambie 22. Adi
18 Aug 2010, 13:00 pm
Vs Wales
1. CJ
2. Chiliboy
3. Jannie
4. Flip
5. Hargreaves
6. Flo
7. Smith ( C)
8. Kanko
9. Ricky
10. Butch
11. Nokwe
12. JDV
13. de Jongh
14. Basson
15. Aplon
16. Bismarck 17. Beast 18. Kruger 19. Potgieter
20. Hougaard 21. Lambie 22. Adi
18 Aug 2010, 13:00 pm
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami)-87: Quite similar to mine. I forgot about Kruger, will definitely also include him in place of Hargreaves.
Ricky???
You just lost some credibility there
18 Aug 2010, 13:01 pm
Vs Scotland
1. Jannie
2. Chiliboy
3. BJ
4. Flip
5. Kruger
6. Flo
7. Smith ( C)
8. Potgieter
9. Hougaard
10. Butch
11. Odwa
12. JDV
13. Adi
14. Aplon
15. Kirchner
16. Bismarck 17. CJ 18. Bakkies 19. Kanko
20. Ricky 21. Lambie 22. Basson
18 Aug 2010, 13:02 pm
Vs England
1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. BJ
4. Bakkies
5.Kruger
6. Flo
7. Smith ( C)
8. Vermeulen
9. Hougaard
10. Butch
11. Nokwe
12. JDV
13. de Jongh
14. JPP
15. Aplon
16. Chiliboy 17. CJ 18. Jannie 19. Flip 20. Potgieter
21. Ricky 22. Lambie
18 Aug 2010, 13:03 pm
Vs Babarians
1. Beast
2. Chiliboy
3. Jannie
4. Flip
5. Hargreaves
6. Flo
7. Potgieter
8. Kanko
9. Hougaard
10. Lambie
11. Odwa
12. de Jongh
13. Adi
14. Basson
15. Aplon
16. Bismarck 17. CJ 18. Kruger 19. Vermeulen
20. Ricky 21. Nokwe 22. Kirchner
18 Aug 2010, 13:03 pm
@ geroom add Morne Steyn to that list,the guy does not give us any attacking edge,Butch on one leg is still a better bet,but then you will have to get someone to kick at the poals.add Francois Steyn,overrated one trick pony who can only kick,offers nothing whatsoever in attack,compare him to Mils or Dagg.Pierre Spies,useless.BJ Botha,the supposed saviour of Bok rugby according to some,has failed to live up to excpectation.
18 Aug 2010, 13:04 pm
@bored@work(bored@work)-92: LOL. This is based on more or else what PDV train of selection is, and we all know he will always pick Ricky.
18 Aug 2010, 13:05 pm
>
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EARL WILL PLAY END OF YEAR AND WORLD CUP. EARL IS THE FUTURE.
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18 Aug 2010, 13:05 pm
And the anti PDV tirade continues , next up , A year of bad choices , why PDV should not wear stripe socks !!
18 Aug 2010, 13:05 pm
@rugbygenius(rugbygenius)-98: The future looks k@k then !!!!
18 Aug 2010, 13:09 pm
@wpw(wpw)-86: don’t worry Wes, when Alberts was with the Snoils, Sharks_lover didn’t rate him as a prospect for the Boks, now all of sudden he plays for the Sharks now pdv must have him in his bok plans
yeah right!
18 Aug 2010, 13:10 pm
@sparticus(sparticus)-100: No. It is a future of brightness. Even our coach said he is very special. He deserves to be there more than Butch . He will take over from Morne wait and see.
18 Aug 2010, 13:11 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-55: ha ha…c’mon you can’t be serious with comments like that, don’t be over sensitive.
18 Aug 2010, 13:13 pm
@wpw(wpw)-86: nevermind that Vermuelen has been in the Emerging Boks setup for the past year or two.
Imagine Mapoe had been selected the eoyt last year and had kak games against leicester & sarries, these same scribes and arseholes on keo would be calling him a quota!
18 Aug 2010, 13:14 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-101: Alberts is overrated, just like that donkey Deysel!
18 Aug 2010, 13:15 pm
@rugbygenius(rugbygenius)-102: Are you saying he deserves to take over from Morne? or just that he will?
18 Aug 2010, 13:16 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-104: Where is he, still injured or just not wanting to play for the Cheetahs?
Plus where is Wandile Mjekevu?
18 Aug 2010, 13:17 pm
@WP_(WP_)-105: ja right, I’m sure you WP supporters are praying that he won’t be in this week-end, coz he would be fn up Vermeulen. Remind me what happened to Stormers in their last game against Sharks?
18 Aug 2010, 13:20 pm
@rugbygenius(rugbygenius)-98: Earl is kak. Elton Janjtes is already better + more reliable than that has-been/never-was
18 Aug 2010, 13:21 pm
@foreverrugga(foreverrugga)-108: Geez you Sharks fans are insecure. he hehe.
18 Aug 2010, 13:22 pm
@foreverrugga(foreverrugga)-106: Ja that is what I’m saying sir. But he needs the coaching of Oom Piet right now to help him be the best he can be. After Morne we don’t have anyone as naturally talented as Morne. And nobody can disagree with that.
18 Aug 2010, 13:23 pm
@WP_(WP_)-109: Don’t you remember EOYT sir last year ? Last time Earel played Bokkes he was our best player in midweek games. He always plays well in the big games.
18 Aug 2010, 13:26 pm
@wpw(wpw)-76:
Shot bud,just sick of the ridiculous proclaimations made on this blog by both “so called journos” and bloggers alike with little to no facts & without reflection/correspondence to past actions/practices (context etc)
Its BS
18 Aug 2010, 13:28 pm
@rugbygenius(rugbygenius)-112: Haha. Big games like club rugby matches where he’s playing now?
Why is he not good enough to make the Lions squad? The 6th best side in the Currie Cup?
18 Aug 2010, 13:32 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-113: good thing you’re around to bring some facts, I’m sure there are many open-minded readers who do appreciate the context/background info.
18 Aug 2010, 13:33 pm
@WP_(WP_)-110: c’mon you wingat supporters are also insecure..ha ha
18 Aug 2010, 13:34 pm
So what happens now? Mapoe does not want to ply for FS but is told he has no option. He is seen down in Durban practicing with the Sharks. WTF
18 Aug 2010, 13:35 pm
@rugbygenius(rugbygenius)-111: A potential is Lambie. I don’t really rate Butch.
18 Aug 2010, 13:36 pm
@WP_(WP_)-110:
What do you make of Greame Smith’s announcement? Who do you see as his successor?
18 Aug 2010, 13:36 pm
I must admit divvy looks like an australian cricket of old..maybe just maybe divvy is our mervyn hughes!
18 Aug 2010, 13:37 pm
@wpw(wpw)-86: oh shut up when im trying to stir
hiyas wpw
18 Aug 2010, 13:37 pm
@foreverrugga(foreverrugga)-116: ya well, may the best team win on saturday
By the way I think Koster, Louw and Duane have just as much fire power as your loosies can dish up. deyesl is just a thug haha
18 Aug 2010, 13:38 pm
@foreverrugga(foreverrugga)-118:
Lambie is going to be the Golden Boy. The Sharks have also bought Jaques-Louis Potgieter. Who is going to get the game time?
18 Aug 2010, 13:42 pm
@nama1(nama1)-119: Hey bu, ya interesting…
Just for T20 is intesresting… I’d say Hash, but he doesnt always play T20… Not sure
18 Aug 2010, 13:43 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-121: always hey??
18 Aug 2010, 13:43 pm
@nama1(nama1)-119: Johan Botha can take over the T20 for now I suppose. But who after 2011 for ODI…
18 Aug 2010, 13:44 pm
@WP_(WP_)-122: Unfortunately you guys might have an easy one coz Deysel is out and I heard Alberts might also be out. You know if we had our loose trio of Kanko, Deysel and Alberts you guys would go down like a lead balloon..ha ha. Even with some of our big guns down must admit looking forward to the game, its gonna be a good one, may the best team win.
18 Aug 2010, 13:44 pm
@THEBokFan(bokfan1)-70: True true – which brings one to the point – in the end hardly any of them made it to the WC. And Jake had enough good players to take the worl cup. Will Pdiv do the same?
18 Aug 2010, 13:45 pm
@renoog(silent_shadow)-53: No difs between him and January? FFS!!!! You cant be that dumb!!!
18 Aug 2010, 13:46 pm
@DROOOL(DROOOL)-123: Lambie at 10 at Potgieter at either 12 or 13 – that’s what I’m thinking will happen next year. But they mustn’t bug*ger Lambie about, he’s already played in 3 positions which is a bit annoying.
18 Aug 2010, 13:48 pm
@foreverrugga(foreverrugga)-127: Oh really, but Daniels, Botes will still be a challenge. Yeah I’m slightly worried, given the recent history in Durbs, but we’re not going to lose our unbeaten record now!
18 Aug 2010, 13:49 pm
time to go, cheers folks
18 Aug 2010, 13:49 pm
@WP_(WP_)-114: You laugh now sir – but wait and see.
@foreverrugga(foreverrugga)-118: Lambie is good but frail on defence.
18 Aug 2010, 13:53 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-57: Just like there’s no difs between Peter Grant and Earl Rose?
18 Aug 2010, 13:53 pm
@WP_(WP_)-126:
Yes, right.
They’ll probably go for Botha.
I was also thinking about Amla. Not sure if that would be a good thing. Rather let him concentrate on his batting. Botha would be OK, I think.
18 Aug 2010, 13:54 pm
@rugbygenius(rugbygenius)-133: go look at the stats , lambie has missed 1 tackle in his last 3 matches
that seems to suggest anything but frail
he is not a big tackler and is probably a lot like JDJ whom some say cant tackle ,
well JDJ is technically a very good defender as is lambie
18 Aug 2010, 13:54 pm
@rugbygenius(rugbygenius)-133: He’s useless get over it. He’s nearly 27, he’s no longer one for the future. He’s a bad memory from the past!
18 Aug 2010, 13:56 pm
@rugbygenius(rugbygenius)-133:
It is still early days for Lambie but he certainly shows a lot a promise. Will be able to rate him after a S15 season. I agree that they must play him in one position to grow in confidence. The Sharks are not very good @ that considering what happened to Pienaar and Steyn
18 Aug 2010, 13:57 pm
@nama1(nama1)-135: Ya Botha for T20 I’d say, maybe for post 2011 too…
But we’ll have to see how his form is then.. I dont think AB woudl be a great captain, maybe I’m wrong but he doesnt come across as a skipper. Would affect his batting too just like Hash.
I’ve got a feeling the next major fulltime captain will come from outside the current group…
18 Aug 2010, 13:58 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-134: No, Hougaard is not as good a scrumhalf as he is a wing… yet.
18 Aug 2010, 14:02 pm
as long as it is not quota prince or quota duminy
18 Aug 2010, 14:05 pm
At least one of the Smit(h)’s retired from their codes!
Quota Duminy for T20 captain!
18 Aug 2010, 14:07 pm
duminy must first score more than 10 runs in a season
18 Aug 2010, 14:11 pm
@geroom_sexwater(geroom_sexwater)-141: why are they quotas?
18 Aug 2010, 14:12 pm
The whole Mapoe thing is really complicated because he could be earning a whack more somewhere else. Have to feel for him
18 Aug 2010, 14:34 pm
JC,
Why exactly was Riaan Viljoen a selection error?
18 Aug 2010, 14:34 pm
@willievz(willievz)-146: Sorry Grant not JC :blush:
18 Aug 2010, 14:50 pm
@WP_(WP_)-105:
For once we agree.
18 Aug 2010, 14:51 pm
@willievz(willievz)-146: Ja Ashley Johnson, Riaan Viljoen and Heini Adams had proved there worth with strong currie cups.
Viljoen is the best 15 in the country INHO
18 Aug 2010, 14:52 pm
@foreverrugga(foreverrugga)-108:
Remind us where the Sharks ended on the log nou weer?
18 Aug 2010, 15:15 pm
@nama1(nama1)-119:
AB de Villiers or Hashim Alma
18 Aug 2010, 15:17 pm
can’t be amla … SAB won’t allow it …
18 Aug 2010, 15:19 pm
What makes it worse is the individuals De Villiers selected ahead of Mapoe. De Villiers said last year that Earl Rose was a better option.
PdV is such an idiot.
WTF was SARU thinking when they hired him – oh yeah right, they weren’t thinking. They turned away the candidate who was the best for the job because he didn’t fit the BEE mould.
18 Aug 2010, 15:44 pm
@wpw(wpw)-150: Don’t be fooled by past results. As in cricket, you are only as good as your next innings, not your last. Sharks as WP are on the way up. Sharks might have the edge in the forwards department as their pack looks a little more matured, but as time passes, the WP will become better and more stable, and then their explosive backs will have a field day.
18 Aug 2010, 15:58 pm
I like Mapoe but FFS we got Hougaard, van Den Heever and Aplon as great wings. PDV needs to wake up and stop looking at JPP. Actually, rather Mapoe then JPP. My list for right wings is 1. hougaard 2. Van den heever 3. Aplon 4. Mapoe. Although Habana is in terrible form. Maybe I’d have Hougaard on the left and Gerhard on thr right with Sarel at SH
18 Aug 2010, 15:59 pm
Grant, FFS!!!, put a freaken sock on it!!!!, I see you are aiming at Earl Rose’s selection ahead of Mapoe when in fact it was Houggard who was supposed not to have been on that tour, Houggard was owned, literally embarrassed by Mapoe in both the games they came up against each other.
The game at Loftus was so embarrassing even the Australian ref blew Mapoe for having jumped so high that, Mapoe’s arse was literally on Houggard’s mouth, ( Mapoe could have farted directly into Houggard’s mouth),The Aussie ref blew Mapoe, it was hilarious.
The irony here is that, Earl Rose went on to prove why he was selected for the EOYT ahead of many but why do you journalists not want to acknowledge that is a mystery or the fact that Houggard went on to further embarrass himself on that EOYT by single-handedly losing the game by himself after the Heini Adams/Ruan Pienaar had given a master-class.
You guys are disgusting!!!!
18 Aug 2010, 16:06 pm
xhosakid ..you don’t judge a player after 1 game .. i remember mapoe having some shocking games against weak opponents ..
18 Aug 2010, 16:07 pm
and if you rate earl rose, then you and PDV probably went to the same school … when you planning to complete grade 8?
18 Aug 2010, 16:12 pm
@WP_(WP_)-109: I never thought that I would agree with a WPian so easily. 100% spot on, EJ as a 19 year old already has a great feel for the game, he passes well, his out of hand kicking is great (did you see that chip against the cheaters?) He is solid in defense and he is not afraid to carry the ball into contact. He is also well conditioned like all players should be … unlike that skinny Rose who at 28 has the body of a 17 year old.
18 Aug 2010, 16:16 pm
@wpw(wpw)-151:
For some reason I don’t think either of them should be given the captaincy.
Amla is making a strong bid to be the best batsman in the world. Making him captain of the T20 or ODI team next year will put other responsibilities on his shoulders that can hamper his progress.
AB is still to inconsistent (especially in the test arena) to shoulder added responsibility like being captain of the team.
@geroom_sexwater(geroom_sexwater)-157:
Like Xhosakid, you will now give us examples of your claim?
18 Aug 2010, 16:23 pm
@geroom_sexwater(geroom_sexwater)-157: I was referring to Houggard vs Mapoe, head to heads last year, please feel free to tell the rest of us, which shocking games did Mapoe have last CC?
18 Aug 2010, 16:25 pm
@geroom_sexwater(geroom_sexwater)-158: Wow!!, grade 8 insults are out.
18 Aug 2010, 16:30 pm
@nama1(nama1)-119: Johan Botha for Captain, De Villiers to keep wicket for both T/20 and ODI, Boucher to focus purely on Test matches
18 Aug 2010, 16:36 pm
One lousy drunken quota feels for another for not being able to join the ‘Gravy Train’
18 Aug 2010, 16:37 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-163:
I’ll go with that.
When will Boucher make his announcement or should Corrie force his hand?
18 Aug 2010, 16:38 pm
@nama1(nama1)-160:
I thought your cricket expertese by far exceeding your rugby ones, go for your strenghts!
18 Aug 2010, 16:51 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-166:
You should try to find your own strength and develop it further.
At the moment you don’t display any.
Yapping about “drunken quotas”, “non-merit players” etc day in and day out, all year round, actually shows a weakness on your part.
18 Aug 2010, 17:51 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-161: well there were games where hougaard last year didnt play well either
lots of moans and graons at the time between bulls supporters
this year yes hougaard has been good at wing
personally i am still not convinced with him at 9
18 Aug 2010, 17:52 pm
@nama1(nama1)-167:
Ya, truth hurts
But money talks, if you get an 85%+ score with the Bookies, that all it counts!
“Talks are cheap, money Buys the Whisky” -PdV
18 Aug 2010, 18:45 pm
We have some very exciting young wings coming through the system at the moment, which has been along time coming.
Deon van Rensberg, Gerhard van der Heever and Lionel Mapoe are three promising wings who all should be included in the Springbok Team for the end of year tour.
We need to find more quality young wings urgently for the future!
18 Aug 2010, 19:14 pm
@ ICEMAN
Not to mention Mvovo & Bjorn Basson, who are at least as exciting as those 3.
18 Aug 2010, 23:08 pm
EOYT SQUAD:
Backs:
Jantjes, Aplon
JPP, Basson, Mvovo, Mapoe
De Villiers (capt.), De Jongh, Bosman, Murray
James, Lambie
Pienaar, Bondesio, Januarie
Forwards:
Beast, CJ, BJ, Du Plesis
Chilli, Maku, Burden
Flip, Hargreaves, Skeate, Sykes
Flo, Juan Smit, Kankowski, Brussouw, Potgieter, Big Joe
Rested: Habana, Fourie, Steyn, Du Preez, Guthro, John Smit, Victor, Bakkies, Rossouw, Burger
Axed: Kirchner, Hougaard, Bismarck, Spies
19 Aug 2010, 10:31 am
@rugbywriter(rugbywriter)-155: Bulls supporter ?
19 Aug 2010, 10:35 am
@Suidkapenaar(Suidkapenaar)-154: Actually no. You’re only as good as your last innings. Your next hasnt happened yet.
19 Aug 2010, 14:02 pm
156. XhosaKid(XhosaKid) :
Grade 8 jokes are too high for your one peanut brain hence why you are not catching it. Ice-cream goes into your mouth not forehead plonker.
Hougaard was not selected as a wing but scrum half with Ruan a fly half. And with that Hougaard was a scrumhalf come wing last year when Akona got injured thus it is expected that he’ll make a mistake or two. Did you see what he did to the supposed next springbok fullback Joe Pieterson in the S14 final, never in Habanna’s life has he left a player for dead like that. Even Joe had to leave the country so embarrassed is he. And did you not forget how he caught mr. Mapoe out with that cross kick for the first try of the CC final. Go talk you k#$*k with the ANC else ware.
19 Aug 2010, 14:08 pm
172. psycho(psycho) :
K$#@k team. Where the hell do you put in overrated Meyer Bosman and Murry in? O and Skeate, Bondesio, Januarie? Do actually know that rugby is played with a oval ball and not a round one. Stick your hands down your pants(if you are a male otherwise it would make sense) , feel them balls, that is what a rugby ball is like, oval.
19 Aug 2010, 14:17 pm
151. wpw(wpw) :
Hashim Alma. He can actually take over all captency from fat **** Smitty. I heard that there is a new car on the market. apparently the roof is a bit more eleveted than normal cars so Smitty can fit in that head of his.
Proteas suck and will always suck as long as softies coach the team with Smitty. Fire all and get an hard arsed coach in like Jennings or similar to kick the dead Table mountain wood out. Funny how that Protea click all live in or move to cape town. Also funny how these exact plonkers also always suck at any event worth while.
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