We need each other, says All Blacks legend
22 Aug 2010
Sean Fitzpatrick says the rugby world would be incomplete without the All Blacks and Springboks’ rivalry.
Fitzpatrick, a 1987 World Cup winner, writes in his weekly NZ Heraldn Column, that captaining the All Blacks to a first ever series win against the Boks in South Africa in 1996 remains his greatest memory as an All Black.
Fitzpatrick, responding to suggestions that South Africa may want out of Sanzar, urged officials to make the right decision for the right reason.
‘Don’t do it,’ he wrote.
‘The All Blacks and the Springboks need each other, perhaps more than either would like to admit. In my view, it’s still the best rivalry in world rugby. I have magical memories from my youth of sitting in front of the TV with my family in the dead of night, tingling with excitement at the prospect of watching the All Blacks take on the auld enemy.’
He added that playing the Boks had always been the ultimate challenge for any All Black and that remained the case.
‘It’s probably one of the most intimidating challenges in world rugby. To beat the South Africans, you have to do it off the pitch, as well as on it.
‘From the moment you step into their country, they’re on your back. Groups of kids, solitary old men, middle-aged women having lunch, gangs of beer-laden Bokkie farmers – wherever you are, everyone you meet has a dislike for you and wants to share it with you.
‘I have so many memories from my playing days of people coming up to me and saying, “Fitzpatrick, I want to take you outside and scrum you into the ground”, or “Fitzpatrick you’re going to eat some humble pie come Saturday”. It was almost as if it was personal.
‘You ask any All Black who toured South Africa in 1996 and I’m pretty sure they would cite it as their greatest memory as an All Black. Sure, winning the series helped, but there was so much more than that.
‘The intensity on and off the field was both draining and exhilarating. The single-minded focus and burning desire of the entire group to be the first team to win on South African soil was a joy to be a part of.
‘When we walked off Loftus Versfeld having won the series, the satisfaction that we’d beaten our greatest rivals in their own back yard was immense. For the dirt-trackers to perform the haka for us as we walked off the field was fantastic.
‘For the late great Don Clarke to come up to me in the tunnel and hug me and say (crying) “thank you for achieving what so many generations of All Blacks have been trying to do for years” was emotional dynamite.
‘I count those minutes as among the most rewarding in my entire international career.’
Fitzpatrick wrote he did not know what the answer was to the Sanzar arrangement but felt the South African travel schedule was unfair and ideally both countries benefitted most through tours, as that is what the people really wanted – the All Blacks in South Africa for six weeks and the Boks in New Zealand for six weeks.
‘A tour to South Africa? That is the best of the best. They don’t like us, we don’t like them, so let the man blow the whistle and let’s get down to business. In the fast moving tides of international rugby, we need to be careful that we don’t end up high and dry, stranded on the sanitised sandbanks of quick-fire, one-off internationals; while we hanker back to the good, old days of All Black-South Africa tours and touring – where folklore is created and legends are born.’
180 Comments
22 Aug 2010, 12:03 pm
tours…please
22 Aug 2010, 12:26 pm
Not so much the ABs but the ABs and the kissing cousin Australia combined creates a despicable monster
Now suddenly travel schedules are being talked about
Next year we play away from home first again, I mean whatever
22 Aug 2010, 12:26 pm
Springboks versus Poverty Bay, Taranaki, Hawkes Bay, Otago…
New Zealand versus Boland, NW Cape, Free State, Natal…
22 Aug 2010, 12:26 pm
thing is the tri nations is getting old now can see the abs anytime cant we have a new formula ?
22 Aug 2010, 13:22 pm
@JL1(JL1)-2: You have just had a game with everything stacked in your favour, a completely rested team playing at home at altitude with 90,000 supporters drowning out the haka and yelling for a Bok win … and you still lost!
Who the hell cares who plays away first? Do the Springboks ever lose because the other team played better?
22 Aug 2010, 13:30 pm
If Richie McCaw decides to relinquish his position as the world’s best rugby player, he could make a fortune as the world’s best con-man. How, in an incident under the New Zealand posts immediately after half-time, did he manage to avoid a penalty and a yellow card, when he was massively off-side and prevented quick ball for the Springboks, which would almost certainly resulted in a try – and a 23-14 lead? “Oops! Sorry ref!”?
- Bob Dwyer
22 Aug 2010, 13:36 pm
This piece puts the whole thing into perspective really. In 1996 the Abs won their first-ever series win over the Boks. Since then it’s been a downhill run.
Boks have been in decline for a good long while, 1980 – 1992 not included obviously.
Snor can get the blame today, but what of the past, what is happening at Senior level that seems to have been finally put to bed at S14 level?
22 Aug 2010, 13:49 pm
@Gooch(Gooch)-5: Yes the travel schedule has a huge impact on getting a win, momentum and then taking that with you
What do you know anyway, S14 has shown how teams travelling first lose and battle to make the play offs
Fine, break up the 3 Nations, I sure will not miss you
22 Aug 2010, 13:53 pm
@JL1(JL1)-8: Except the Sharks who pay away, win all their matches and then LOSE ALL AT HOME 2008, it hurt. A lot
22 Aug 2010, 13:55 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-7: Not really. In the bad old days it was rare for the Boks or AB’s to win in each other’s back yard. Familiarity has made it a bit easier.
I think what it really shows is how much NZ values playing SA. Fitzy isn’t the only one gushing about games against the Springboks. Brad Thorn last month said playing the Tri Nations was better than the World Cup because we test ourselves against the best in the world 3 times each.
I think we would all like to see tours, but I don’t see how it could happen without a complete rethink on Super Rugby, Currie Cup, ITM etc.
SARU (according to Steve Tew) are more interested in adding another team (The Kings) to the Super comp than rejigging Internationals.
22 Aug 2010, 13:57 pm
@JL1(JL1)-8: Moan on. Yawn.
22 Aug 2010, 14:00 pm
@Gooch(Gooch)-10: As usual saru putting politics before rugby. Tour-based 3 series much better than a super series with another whipping boy
22 Aug 2010, 14:06 pm
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-6: unbelievable at the time, it was sure-fire yellow for any other player yet…nothing.
22 Aug 2010, 14:10 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-12: Yeah I agree. The article I read gave the impression that Tew was keen to appease South Africa because it is just not in everybody’s interest to split. He said that they were looking at ways to make this happen.
All I know of SARU administration is what we read in the press, but it does look like they are not the smartest bunch.
22 Aug 2010, 14:11 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-13: And it starts!
22 Aug 2010, 14:12 pm
@Gooch(Gooch)-15:
but seriously on a pure rugby perspective, no bias, how did he get away with it? it was like he’s invisible.
22 Aug 2010, 14:15 pm
@Gooch(Gooch)-14: What I know of SARU would make a grown man cry.
Dodgeville. Look up the new CEO if you are interested, see if you can find a story on him, there’s bound to be something.
22 Aug 2010, 14:17 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-16: thought the same. Especilly after the IRB said they take contact with the face “very seriously”
22 Aug 2010, 14:26 pm
Go North,
disregard the danger.
Take pleasure in your dismemberment of Italia.
Your parity with Wales.
Your close loses at Twickers.
The Jocks knocking at your door.
The Patrick’s killing your delusions of grandeur.
But keep watching the Oz/Kiwi Test Matches……………….cause that’s money in the Bank for us.
Real Test Matches.
22 Aug 2010, 14:29 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-19: SA will still play NZ even if they do ‘go north’ as you suggest. It will probably only be twice a year as opposed to 3 times however. NZ/Oz matches aren’t that entertaining for a neutral, well not 10 times a year anyway
22 Aug 2010, 14:34 pm
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-6:
And how the phhark did Juan avoid a Red card for blatantly and malicously manhandling the Referee?
In NZ, he wouild never play the game again……….well not this year anyway.
22 Aug 2010, 14:34 pm
i thought richie should have been yellowcarded for slowing the ball on the try line and knocking schalk in the face
22 Aug 2010, 14:34 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-16: OK, seems you had a smiley face I’ll give you a reasonable response. You are not wrong in as much as we thought McCaw was lucky not to be penalised a couple of times. But there were many infringements which were either not picked up or the ref had decided it was not interfering significantly with the game.
For example, at the South African kickoffs players were well in front of the kicker making it possible for them to get to the ball and Boks were offside at the ruck often, both not picked up and had a serious affect on AB’s getting clean ball.
If you watch the opposition’s fetcher constantly you will see them infringe a lot, sometimes deliberately, sometimes by accident. This is the nature of rugby.
Look at the 2007 World Cup Quater Final with the AB’s against France. We were camped on France’s try line for a huge amount of time toward the end of the game. France were infringing constantly and McCaw was waiting for a penalty. He kept yelling at the ref and the infringements kept comimng, but no penalty. Afterwards the AB’s did not blame the ref, (yeah we know some fans blew a fuse). They learnt that you must play to the ref. He decides what he is going to blow up and they are all different. McCaw has told you often in the press that he has learnt to play to the ref. That’s all that is going on.
22 Aug 2010, 14:35 pm
@klippies101(klippies101)-22: You’re not the ref, and the ref is the sole judge of fact.
22 Aug 2010, 14:36 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-20: Won’t go north… no chance.
Supersport makes loads of money out of the SANZAR agreement so they will do all to keep it intact.
And who owns SuperSport? And who owns them? And who controls that? Same guys who make rugby decisions down in the cape.
22 Aug 2010, 14:38 pm
Congrats All Blacks for the win yesterday. Congrats to their supporters here too. My heart felt broken to almost have won it to lose it totally in the last 4min. 2 tries came in that time. So hats off to the ABs for that.
Why our coach took off players that were playing well had no clue. Was so angry at the time but now read Juan had niggle and Hougaard had cramp. So maybe why they were taken off. As soon as Juan went off thought we could lose it.
Now on the subject above. Have to agree with Fitzpatrick. Boks and ABs need each other. That is why our rugby is so strong. Just hope we keep playing right here in the SH and not head up north that would be a bad mistake.
I would LOVE tours to come back that would be totally awesome. Just look how great it was last year when the Lions toured here. I say bring back the tours with mid week games too. Plenty supporters would go on those tours too. I remember meeting many, many ABs supporters here in 1976 when they toured here. Tours are far more exciting.
22 Aug 2010, 14:39 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-21: Aussie rugby is all but on life support as it is, they will die when we move
John o’Neill knows that hence the brown nosing in SA at the moment
22 Aug 2010, 14:39 pm
@Gooch(Gooch)-23: I wasn’t talking about McCaw’s play generally, just that one incident on his line. It was so clear yet completely ignored, not even a penalty.
22 Aug 2010, 14:46 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-20:
Yep,nothing like the games you watch a BH,Italy vs Scotland,whoa just absolutly nail biting stuff
22 Aug 2010, 14:48 pm
@JL1(JL1)-8:
Break up the 3N?…….you wish
22 Aug 2010, 14:54 pm
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-6: Dwyer’s a one eyed idiot, always has been and always will be. I watched that incident a number of times and Richie came in through the gate and pushed through the ruck to where the ball was. It was correctly ruled no penalty, despite the protests of the idiot SA commentary team.
And while we’re on that subject if they aren’t the worst of a bad bunch I’m a ******* uncle – Fox, Nisbett & co, Bray and those idiots are all ridiculously biased but the latter take the cake. All I heard all day was McC this and McC that – never oh and Burger is off his feet or gee not one of those kick chasers were behind the halfback. To them the penalty count should have been 20-0. Fair cop all the teams are bad and no-one should be throwing stones in glasshouses around here.
22 Aug 2010, 14:58 pm
@Qrest(Qrest)-31:
Its funny but its probably the first time i have heard South Africans back an Ozzie. When did any South Africans believe what an Ozzie said. Mind you it took an Ozzie to win SA the RWC 2007,maybe things have changed
22 Aug 2010, 14:58 pm
2035 – The Boks lose to Scandanavia in the ‘Other Rugby World Cup’ for fringe teams in the opening match, now have an uphill battle against Antarctic XV and then face the in-form Mexicans to battle out the last game of the round.
Captain Chilliboy, asked whether being 54 years old meant this was his last RWC said he wanted to beat his mentor, John SMit’s record of having played in 190 tests, losing the last 97 straight.
This weeks after New Zealand won the Intergalactic Rugby Championship held on Mars. Their Captain Ritchie McCaw Junior Junior said the hardest part was having to hold his breath for the full 80 mins as there is no air on Mars.
SAPA…
22 Aug 2010, 14:59 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-28: I thought I had answered you. Stuff gets missed, on both sides. I also think perspective has a big influence on how you see an infringement. If it’s the incident I think you are referring to I thought it was a penalty too, but not that bad. He got away with it. The penalty (which cost us 3 points) against Joe Rocks was harsh. Joe was in the air going for the ball and could not change direction. Sometimes refs see it that way, sometimes their view is different. That’s rugby.
In the leadup to McCaw’s try there was a forward pass missed. The same thing happened to us in that WC quarter final I mentioned earlier. Don’t expect refs to see everything. A good team will make it’s own luck and in McCaw’s own words “take the ref out of the equation”. No that doesn’t mean cheating, it means scoring sufficient so that calls against you don’t matter.
22 Aug 2010, 15:00 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-33: I enjoyed that.
22 Aug 2010, 15:01 pm
@Qrest(Qrest)-31: Bobby Skinstad is probably the most partisan commentator I have ever heard.
As a guy from Natal, you would think the Sharks had eaten his family the way he carries on about WP.
I thought Nisbo and Mexted were bad but Bobby is terrible. How he can honestly think the Boks are fine also shows he plays the politics and not the cards dealt.
22 Aug 2010, 15:04 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-36: bob is my favorite player of all time…..but he is a helleva dissapointing ‘critic’ ….toes the party line…..and is very seldom prepared to call it objectively if it means being even slightly controversial.
Actually very dissapointing….
22 Aug 2010, 15:07 pm
@grant10(grant10)-37: Bobby is a decent enough chap, the kind whose ‘glass half full’ is so ful is spills over. Women love his skin I hear. Not great at driving out of Newlands after a loss, but a nice guy from a good home and family.
But yep, commentator he sits right on the fence. I hope it squeezes his nuts, it makes me crazy how PC he is.
22 Aug 2010, 15:10 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-38: exactly right…..he should become a bloody Diplomat or something…..has turned out to be a very boring rugby personality.
22 Aug 2010, 15:44 pm
thats true tackles but refs do get it wrong sometimes
last night we saw a massive all blacks forward pass that wasnt called
we also sometimes see high tackles that dont get called for example
22 Aug 2010, 16:25 pm
@klippies101(klippies101)-40: Did you also see the South African infringements that went unpunished?
22 Aug 2010, 16:53 pm
Well done all blacks. Def deserved the win. From the the 50 min the Boks were out on there feet. Coach needed to make better subs.
Still feel we can good enough players to win the world cup. We just need to start selecting some youth. Also cant stand the front row we are selecting. We need a more athletic front row.
22 Aug 2010, 17:04 pm
1.Guthro
2.Smit(reconditioned)
3.Jannie
4.Bakkies
5.Matfield
6.Brussow
7.Smith
8.Spies
9.Du Preez
10.M.Steyn
11.Habana
12.De Villiers
13.Fourie
14.JPP
15.Aplon**
16.Bismark
17.Beast
18.Rossouw
19.Burger
20.Hougaard
21.De Jongh
22.F.Steyn**
This time can beat anyone/anyday/anytime.
**New laws & gameplan neccessitate the need for a running 15 that increases running opportunities,less kicking.Aplon better suited.
22 Aug 2010, 17:07 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-43:
Alot of our players need reconditioning.
22 Aug 2010, 17:24 pm
Jeez I wish the moaning would stop, yesterday’s game had a few mistakes and it was a forward pass, however the Boks managed to miss a penalty line kick and then got turned over in the last minute, which lead to a try …
If anything we should be complaining how so many of our players seem to have gone backwards in conditioning since the S14 … they are either not in shape or overplayed, the latter I’d have to question since the ABs have played a similar schedule
My feeling yesterday was a lot of effort and heart from the boks, but sadly the accuracy was not just not as good as the ABs. The basics where 70-80% accurate and 4-5 key mistakes cost us dear, including:
- Gio Aplon not kicking out – Woodcock try
- Morne Steyn missing line penalty kick, Brian Habana not holding defensive structure – McCaw try
- JDV turn over and John Smit missing a tackle, Dagg try
I recon time for some a few well earned changes, with Brian Habana being a key one. Currently his consistent coming-up-to-early-on-defense approach is becoming more consistent and proved to be a liability, and nearly cost us more than one try yesterday …
Spies needs to make place for Kanko, since he is looking very ordinary and I’d also consider benching Morne Steyn for Butch if Frans Steyn in playing. His place kicking is great, but his clearance kicking and line kicks are not great.
On the positive side, I think Juan Smith looked fantastic and I see a future lock partner for Bekker in Flip, plus Hougaard did very well, given that he started in his 1st test against the ABs
My team for next weekend:
15 – Frans Steyn
14 – JPP
13 – JDJ
12 – JF
11 – Gio Aplon
10 – Butch James
9 – Francois Hougaard
8 – Kanko
7 – Juan Smith
6 – Schalk
5 – Victor (captain)
4 – Flip
3 – Jannie Dup
2 – Bismarck
1 – Gutrho
Reserves: JDV, Flo, Danie R, CJ, John Smit, any other scrummie except Rickie
22 Aug 2010, 17:48 pm
If only we where allowed to choose our strongest teams! That is from school to Springboks level!
If only we had no politics in our beloved game!
If only personal agendas & pride could make way for whats best for our guys in green & gold.
If only the hateful racist attitudes from a ANC led government could vanish in thin air.
If only coaches could love their enemies more than they love their sick racist tinted echo’s!
Then Mr Fitzpatrick you would not have had it so easy in South Africa or New Zealand, to the contrary you would have a far less winning ratio against the Boks than now.
Enjoy it while it lasts, as in everything the wheel always turns and their will come a time that the racist ANC will not rule & hateful racist policies will not be enforced & we will be able to put our strongest teams in to the field.
Just like you have the Polynesians to make your rugby competitive, we have the Afrikaner!
What is wrong to have 15 Afrikaners in a Springbok side? If they are the best so let it be!
It will never be a true contest until the playing fields are level.
Sa Rugby is sick to its core! Just watch how our Cravenweek sides are deteriorating in quality.
I have a dream!!!
22 Aug 2010, 17:56 pm
@danuk(danuk)-45:
Snor believes that Ricky has what it takes to make 100 caps.
Snor called Ruan Pienaar the Tiger Woods of rugby. Look where it got Ruan? I think he would like to call Ricky, the David Villa or the Iniesta of rugby. The mind biggles but then again Snor is hardly a rocket scientist.
Any coach who takes of Juan Smith and Francois Hougaard who were the Boks best players on the day is a fool. Substitutes to Snor are like toys or Chappies Bubblegums.
I was dreading that Snor might take Juan De Jongh off and bring on Wynand O. Phew…dit was amper!!
22 Aug 2010, 17:59 pm
They don’t like us, we don’t like them,
Not true mate. I bear no ill will to any Kiwi – perhaps Ozzies but not Kiwis lol. Just quiet respect at being brilliant. We have rivalry but behind that lies respect. it wouldnt mean so much to either side if there wasnt an admiration for the other now would it?
22 Aug 2010, 18:02 pm
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-48:
1000% agree. Well said.
22 Aug 2010, 18:08 pm
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-48: agreed, and I think the majority boks supporters feel that way … obviously there are always a few idiots, believe me watching the 2007 RWC here in the UK I met a few supporting England
22 Aug 2010, 18:25 pm
@Nartjie(Nartjie)-46: mmm, sounds like your saying that we win if the team consisted of 15 Afrikaners then? I supposed coached by an Afrikaner as well?
Maybe just me, but don’t think the team choice is that bad, or that its because of a lack of Afrikaners …
PDV, and the rest of his coaching staff, might not be the best at he moment, but I can think of a few previous coaches who I thought were definitely much crapper
22 Aug 2010, 18:30 pm
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-48: Miss Nahoon. I don’t think you have to scartch a South African too deeply to get Australian envy.
In truth I have met more South African doos’ than Aussie ars eholes.
I have friends from both Aus & NZ, family in Australia, and loved it to bits when I visited. NZ would be the country I most want to visit next.
To me our relationship is one of siblings, and siblings love each other but have a few good barnies every now and then.
SA Vs Aus cricket, SA Vs NZ rugby. If I could I would spend the rest of my days just watching that.
22 Aug 2010, 18:31 pm
@danuk(danuk)-50: Yes for sure and all the ribbing is just par for the course. Theyre generally straight up guys you can rely on in a tight spot. Nothing wrong with that. Wheres Hurricane and Black Panther et all now?
22 Aug 2010, 18:41 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-52: Hey hey!! For sure. Cant agree more with you. Just from speaking to a lot of people there does seem to be more anti Saffa sentiment from Aussies in general and theyre always quick to point the finger and raise the old apartheid arguments. Always thought it was quiet ironic considering they decimated the Aborigine population and margenalised them totally and couple of hundred years later best they can say (after abducting kids and trying to “civilize” them) is ummm sorry! There we said it Sorry. Now its all good isnt it mate? Anyways not gonna get into politics but my point is theyre quick to jump on anyone they perceive to be not pc yet they had Howard as president, have nazi female politicians, are one of the biggest carbon burning and producing nations on earth etc etc. Quick to judge but not in their own back yard, and not shy to make their opinions heard. Just compare the difference in articles between Rugby heaven NZ and Oz. Or difference between Oz commentators and Kiwi commentators. Ozzies can be 30 points down with a minute to go and theyre still going yeah I think we can win this one what do you think Kearnsey?
Never give credit where its due. Look at Phil Waughs comments about Saffa rugby for more. Got nothing against Ozzies personally but a lot of em are full of sh eet – but then again so are a lot of Saffa numbsculls – dont know the meaning of humble winners.
22 Aug 2010, 18:44 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-52: and BTW its Miss Barca to you sir. I know longer dwell in sewerville lol. Just kidding. Old Slummies aint that bad. PE´s zef count is far in excess of Slumtowns
22 Aug 2010, 18:49 pm
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-54: Slummies. Honestly Bill Mclaren is the only unbiased rugby commentator in the history of the game.
Boet you only have to read the racist twaddle here to know that racism is still endemic in SA, whereas it’s a cultural nuance limited to ars eholes in Aus, like it is in Sweden, England, and and and.
I could live in Australia in a heartbeat, likely not in a South African “ghetto”.
I must say I do like living in the US, where my bitter disappointment cannot be magnified in public. When the Boks lose, I can hide in anonymity. Lekker.
22 Aug 2010, 18:50 pm
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-55: Miss Nahoon 1979. I love East London. Always will.
22 Aug 2010, 19:15 pm
SodaJoe-56
Good on u bud,Stay there.
Lived in US for 3 yrs,wouldn’t live there above SA.
Love my country with all its imperfections.
22 Aug 2010, 19:35 pm
For the first time in 15years I will say “Well said SF”Man I hate this mans guts . (possibly distorted patriotism)But what a good idea!! Bring back the 6 -8 week tours.I hpoe you have enough influence in higher circles to start the ball rolling.
22 Aug 2010, 19:40 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-56: haha nice one. But lemme tell you racism is alive n well in Oz too make no mistake. Think its a global thing. As for living there . Without a doubt one of the better countries in the world to live in.
22 Aug 2010, 19:42 pm
Hey Soda Howzit
Still feeling disappointed about the boks loss?
Yeah me too
22 Aug 2010, 19:44 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-58:
Also a Yankee saffa
Love South Africa
Happy in USA
and still bleed green and gold
22 Aug 2010, 19:48 pm
I am thinking PDV will rest Smit and play Bismark
With Steyn at 15 it could help with our attack and the long boots for eaxta field position and kicks at goal
Aplon has been very good very gutsy and quick
Hougaard great improvement
De jongh too
Spies ?? Not against Oz or ABs Portugal maybe
Bring in Vermeulen
Great to see Juan back
22 Aug 2010, 19:49 pm
ok 3 posts and I am officially talking to myself.
22 Aug 2010, 19:52 pm
@CoachPete(CoachPete)-64:
No you right on all accounts and not talking to yourself, well I hope not.
22 Aug 2010, 19:56 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-65:
Thanks I thought I was taking to someone
and someone who thinks like me nogal
22 Aug 2010, 19:57 pm
Doesn’t take a genius to identify the problems mate! A pity the selectors choose names and not form players.
22 Aug 2010, 20:04 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-67:
You said right selecting form players
I think we fall back too much on past experiances old combinations etc
22 Aug 2010, 20:07 pm
@CoachPete(CoachPete)-68:
… and that is going to cost us the 2011 trophy!
22 Aug 2010, 20:10 pm
Its a plan to lose in 2010, then beat ABs in back yard 2011
22 Aug 2010, 20:12 pm
@CoachPete(CoachPete)-70:
…and I woke up and the coffee was cold
22 Aug 2010, 20:14 pm
Yeah I know The coaching situation does worry me
22 Aug 2010, 20:36 pm
Guys, totally unrelated, but why was there no handing over of the trophy and fireworks when the All Blacks won on Saturday? I know that when the Boks won the trinations in New Zealand they where given both the Freedom Cup and the Trinations Trophy in front of all the New Zealand people. No matter how that hurt them. Boks had won the trophy fair and square.
I saw victory pics of the All Blacks in the dressing room at Soccer City, where they had their trophy in the changing rooms.
Were Saru arrogantly thinking that the Boks would beat the All Blacks by more than 7 points, and never made arrangements, or are Saffas really such sour losers, that they would give the winners of the tournament their trophy in a locker room?
22 Aug 2010, 20:48 pm
@CoachPete(CoachPete)-63: the best way to sought out mcaw?? frans steyn ! truth truth truth ,will he do his usual **** when frans can knock them over from 60 + metres out? no ,he wont …oh and jdj needs to learn how to shift on defence ,becuase he is small he has to catch guys before they get some speed behind their weight ,mcaws try ,technically can be pinned on jdj and his lone wolf antics in defence .He rushed up when the rest where shifting-crazy ,other wise he was very dissapointing on attack ,compared to what i saw in the cc the other day…hougard and juan smith where insane in how much difference they made -hougard must retain the bok 9 jersey !he is superb number 9 !aplon must go -but truth be told if i had to choose a man of the match from the winning side ? maybe nonu ,imo the premier 12 in world rugby, he is developing ,at long last ,into something really special
22 Aug 2010, 21:09 pm
I’m starting to feel this should be what we need to get to to win next year:
1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. BJ Botha
4. Bekker
5. Victor
6. Juan (C)
7. Brussow
8. Burger
9. Fdp
10. Peter Grant
12. Jean de vill
13. Jacques F
14. JPP
11. Habs
15. F Steyn
Bench: Gurthro, Gary Botha, Flip, Spies, Hougaard,Juan de Jongh, Aplon
Additional squad: JdPlessis, Chili, Bakkies, Potgieter, Louw, Kankowski, Pienaar, Morne Steyn, Basson, Kirchner
yes it seems weird to imagine life without John but i think that’s coming soon. re the team the emphasis must shift to speed amonst the forwards and keeping the ball in hand. Imagine that starting lineup with a license to run the ball. I think it would be world-beating. Your thoughts?
22 Aug 2010, 21:22 pm
@Marino(Marino)-75: I recon we need a specialist 8th man though … I believe we have enough talent in that area
Not sure about Grant, he should be given a chance to proof himself thoroughly, maybe EOYT.
check out it article on News24 as well …
22 Aug 2010, 21:27 pm
DANUK the fact is that based on what we’ve seen over the last 2 seasons you simply have to have those 3, Smith, Burger and Rossouw on the field. Schalk and Smith are essentially playing the smae, giant game – they cover, they tackle, they carry over the advantacge line, but they are not terriers to the ball. Trust me Schalk can adjust.
Grant simpy has to be there, and soon to build his confidence. Pienaar has been tried as that more attaking type but lacks something. Notice I advise keeping both Pienaar and Steyn in the squad – there has to be a safety net there
22 Aug 2010, 21:35 pm
Marino-75
BJ-too light,lacks mobility,can’t carry
Bekker-its either or,not with Matfield.He isn’t a number 4 lock no matter how big he is.He is the athletic no.5 kind.Matfield still King at 5
Burger-not an 8.every game he has played there he has dissapointed.He is an all action hybrid loosie.no an 8.
Grant-doesn’t have a boot for an international 10,and while his distribution is good-Butch is better in that facet.
F.Steyn-at 15 if u want to run the ball/embracing running rugby…while decent but Aplon is better suited with ball in hand.
Beast-its close but Guthro has been a machine since getting his place back.Is a slightly better scrummager than Beast.while Beast is better with ball in hand.both are destructive defenders.so much of muchness
22 Aug 2010, 21:51 pm
@Marino(Marino)-77: Mmm, I dunno, that’s your assumption about Schalk, He is an incredible player but has not played there sufficiently to make that assessment … I do understand the logic though and he and Juan are performing very well. I’d like to see Kanko start the next couple of games to see how he plays given 80 mins
22 Aug 2010, 21:55 pm
JL1
Fitzy talks only about travel in context of S14, which will be irrelevant once the S15 starts.
Travel is IRRELEVANT in context of TriN. in fact, Boks have had a travel-ADvantage.
No of matches played by Boks immediately after longhaul, within 1 week ?
2009 = 0
2010 = 0
Both ABs & Wallabies have had to play Tests after longhaul within 1 week of a Test in 2009, only Aus in 2010. Fact. SA could have has 2 weeks prep prior to Eden Park but thru sheer arrogance chose to arrive only 6daya before despite having not played a prior Test for 2-3 weeks.
22 Aug 2010, 22:02 pm
Kaksioek
How did Gouger avoid a YC for throwing the ball away on an AB throw-in, 1 metre from the tryline, after a 70m move up the field ?
22 Aug 2010, 22:06 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-81: Lol, what’s with the name calling … I thought that was Springbok ball anyway?
22 Aug 2010, 22:09 pm
Name ONE other Test nation that would sell-out Soccer City 10 out of 10 matches ?
Why is it we heard about SA breaking from SANZAR in 2008 and now in 2010 but not in 2009 ?
Gee, I’m sure there’s a simple answer in there somewhere…..
22 Aug 2010, 22:10 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-80:
Travel is IRRELEVANT in context of TriN. in fact, Boks have had a travel-ADvantage
oh dear
22 Aug 2010, 22:13 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-80: Yeah have to agree, the preparation was terrible and unfortunately it was obvious
having said that the Boks will always travel for 3 weeks, so definitely more than ABs or Wallabies, however it seemed to me that the Stormers and Bulls where much better prepared in the S14 than the boks, which is shocking …
Not a big fan of Bob Dwyer but his latest blog summarised it very well for me: The ABs where just fitter and more accurate than either the Boks and Wallabies this year, by some distance.
As a bok supporter I thought the boks went backwards actually, fitness and skills
22 Aug 2010, 22:14 pm
Thank God for Puma on this blog.
A gentleman and a real rugby fan. You give a good impression of your nation to the outside rugby World, unlike so many others here.
22 Aug 2010, 22:15 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-83: Did any of the 3N test in NZ not sell out?
22 Aug 2010, 22:20 pm
45:Danuk
You need to learn the history of NZ. Polynesians have been a part of our society since 1970, they were encouraged to help with blue collar labor around south Auckland
The fact they took to rugby well was a co-incidence, however, our rugby has always been strong dating back to the 19th century. Many of them now play rugby league, it’s the simpler of the 2 games.
We do not specifically have Polynesians here to improve our rugby, the ones you see of late have grown up here and would call themselves NZers with an island heritage
22 Aug 2010, 22:22 pm
@KiaKahaNZ(KiaKahaNZ)-88: Huh? your possibly responding to 46?
22 Aug 2010, 22:23 pm
@KiaKahaNZ(KiaKahaNZ)-88: Otherwise I really confused now, cause my post for 45 was around Springbok team selection, lol
22 Aug 2010, 22:30 pm
Gunther
name me the last Test match that the Boks played after a longhaul flight within 1 week of another TriN Test ?
Like ABs in Bloem, 2009.
Name it.
22 Aug 2010, 22:32 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-91: Bloemfontein was the 1st test of the series, just like Auckland
22 Aug 2010, 22:38 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-91: Apologies, it was the 2nd test, my mistake
22 Aug 2010, 22:39 pm
Danuk @ 87
um, that’s my point old boy. We certainly appreciate Boks in NZ, I can’t figure out why SA is so desperate to hope for good croqds in Welbank vs Italia instead of regular sellouts vs ABs in JoBurg.
22 Aug 2010, 22:43 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-94: Hoping for fair travel schedules, hoping for a fair contest, hoping for fair refs, hoping that match itineraries are planned fair
….and a couple of wins against dead beats
22 Aug 2010, 22:44 pm
Danuk @ 82
Gouger carried the ball out, did he not ?
Clear professional foul, for which Drew Mitchell received a YC. But Gouger wasn’t even penalised. How strange that this doesn’t get a mention, nor his earlier gouge on Pocock bs Aus, yet the obsession with McCaw continues on fringe calls, at best. Why do you think that is ?
22 Aug 2010, 22:46 pm
@danuk(danuk)-85: Five extra days on the road once or twice a cannot possibly account for the differential in performance. We’re talking about professional sportsmen here, not wet fish left unrefrigerated.
If those five extra days really did make a difference then you’d expect a consistently poor showing by SA teams in their final week of a tour as they get “one-foot-on-the-plane” disease. (Of course, logically ANY team ought to get this disease in their last week, no matter how long or short their tour…)
But the poor performances of SA teams away from home are NOT confined to the final week. They’re just as rubbish in Week 1 as they are in Weeks 2 and 3. It’s obviously not the length away from home that makes them rubbish — it’s simply THAT they are away from home. It just does a yarpie’s head in to be away from home. They’re consistently soft, mentally and psychologically. Any “disadvantage” is all in the mind.
They need to harden the eff up, as Chopper Reid would say.
22 Aug 2010, 22:47 pm
…once or twice a SEASON cannot…
22 Aug 2010, 22:47 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-94: I believe that was due to the FIFA worldcup …
SARU statement:
Mpumalanga will become the 11th of SARU’s 14 current provinces to host the Springboks as the unavailability of the regular Test match venues because of FIFA World Cup commitments has given SARU the chance to share hosting rights in 2010.
22 Aug 2010, 22:48 pm
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-97: They travelled to Paris all fine and dandy
…but yes they need to toughen up, miss our mommies I guess
22 Aug 2010, 22:48 pm
Danuk
while you’re at it, tell me how many stopovers between Auckland & Bloem. And then tell me I’d there’s a tougher flight schedule that that ?
22 Aug 2010, 23:02 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-96: Actually the ball was already ruled to have gone out from Jane, which is why a lineout was awarded to the boks …
22 Aug 2010, 23:02 pm
Sonito
respectful and fair, as ever. And spot on ! This TriN has NO bearing in RWC’11, nor will TriN’11 come to think of it.
22 Aug 2010, 23:07 pm
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-97: Yeah, I hear you, the Stormers proved this year that us yarpies cannot handle the pressure of travelling …
the ABs played well this year and we did not, accepted … last year the shoe was on the other foot and the soft yarpies managed quite well in during the 3rd week
22 Aug 2010, 23:07 pm
Danuk
Gouger carried the ball out, clearly. 2 wrong decisions in 1 play, yet we don’t hear about these do we. If locals are to be believed, only opposition teams benefit from poor decisions.
22 Aug 2010, 23:08 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-101: how about playing 2 matches against the Wallabies and then a 3rd one against the ABs
I recon it’s pretty even
22 Aug 2010, 23:08 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-105: and the boks where awarded the lineout how?
22 Aug 2010, 23:15 pm
I don’t really give a sh*t about lenient calls on SA, btw, they happen every Test like they so for all teams of course (eg why did JdV nor Kirchner NOT get YCs in NZ for spear & head-highs repectively ?) – double standards on this blog are a given.
But I really AM interested in the Answer to my previous Ques:- when did Boks last play a TriN Test after a longhaul flight within 1 week of a TriN Test ???
22 Aug 2010, 23:19 pm
Danuk @ 106
oh, try Tests vs Aus & SA, twice, in 3 weeks. But throw in the flight to Bloem from Akld for good measure.
How was that flight betw Akld and Brisbane for the Boks ?
Still awaiting the answer.
22 Aug 2010, 23:24 pm
@ 107
Your guess is as good as mine. No idea myself. Gouger clearly took ball out in yet another awesome try-saving defensive move by Boks, their upteenth. Jane did not.
No mention here tho, still obsessed with McCaw and a proliferation of fringe calls.
22 Aug 2010, 23:36 pm
yeah, must a conspiracy, the boks deserve more yellow cards and the ABs none, after all the boks are dirty and the ABs just play hard right?
about the travel …
the ABs have to play coming of the plane and play immediately and the Boks have to play for 3 weeks in a row, typically across 3 time zones
I don’t see the advantage in either, and teams from either side have managed quite well, regardless
anyway, a pointless discussion for me … I have no complaints about yesterday except towards the springbok management team
22 Aug 2010, 23:52 pm
@ 111
Well, let’s be honest here – the vast majority of Bok YCs are awarded for foul play, not repeat-offences. Which tends to fly in the face of any argument based on penalties-to-YCs ratio, doesn’t it ? And despite that, JdV stayed ON the field for a spear he later plead Guilty to, Kirchner got clean away with an intentional high-high try-saving tackle around Janes’ nose and Gougers’ innate eye-surgery on Pocock didn’t even get a Citing let alone the RC it clearly deserved. And yet all 3 stayed ON the field. What relevance does pens-to-YCs ratio have when thuggery is involved ? Zero !
22 Aug 2010, 23:59 pm
@ 111
“typically across 3 timezones” ?!
TYPICALLY ????
When ?
Since when does anyone suffer jetlag – and therefore affected by ‘travel’ – after a timezone difference of less than 5hrs, let alone 2-3hrs betw NZ & Aus ? In 2009, the Boks 3 week schedule was Perth to Brizzy to Hamilton – when did they suffer jetlag on that schedule ?!
23 Aug 2010, 00:13 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-112:
I don’t think penalty count is relevant to YCs … I do think Richie gets away with more than any other openside, however he is an openside and it’s a referee’s role to manage that aspect
I can’t argue the reasons for Bakkies and the tip tackle YCs, all where guilty and I’m perfectly happy that Bakkies is not playing. There are enough other good locks in SA. The other two were harsh, including the one for BJ, given Richie’s repeated warnings
If you want to refer to obvious YCs then I can imagine it could go on forever, you mention Schalk and I mention Tony Woodcock, you mention Zane Krichner’s high tackle and I mention Ranger’s shoulder charge on Kircher
23 Aug 2010, 00:15 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-113: every year, each city is in a different timezone and they play 3 tests in a two …
anyway, yawn, you win, the ABs are hard done by and the boks have it easy when travelling
23 Aug 2010, 00:21 am
No problem. Yep, Woodcock should have gone. McCaw too after his ‘Final Warning’ in Welly. Roussouws was ridiculous, albeit really really dumb after replacing BaXXies for foul play, and so early in a match. BJs was completely fair. BaXXies YC was a clear killing-ball foul, and I would have had no problem for same reason if McCaw went for pro- foul in JoBurg in front of the posts. I hate 15 vs 14 tho, esp early ones, Roussows made me livid. Ranger ?! cmon, nothing wrong with that, let’s not ridicule this game we love. Mitchells 1st YC was even more pathetic.
But on balance, I still think Boks have got off very lightly with ref to aforementioned offences.
23 Aug 2010, 00:41 am
@danuk(danuk)-104: Super rugby’s been going on for 15 years and the Stormers have been where, exactly, for 14 of those 15 years? And, with lots of Stormers and Bulls in the Bok team, they’ve not retained their imagined mental hardness for very long nor shown the way to their non-WP/NTvl teammates — their hardness was only brittleness.
Sorry — yarpies ARE mentally soft. That’s in contrast to the year-after-year hardness of the ABs.
In the last decade NZ has won 7 and lost 6 tests in SA. A better win rate in SA than the Boks themselves! And they’ve only lost two tests in total on NZ soil in that same period So, whether home or away, NZ enjoys a superior win ratio over the Boks. And they have won 10 out of the 15 3N competitions.
Yes, it really is extremely one-sided, isn’t it? The myth of the Boks being genuinely competitive vis-a-vis NZ is exactly that — a myth. They, occasionally, hit a rare purple patch and briefly prevail, but then they drop back and the normal order is restored.
That’s what the uninterested and dispassionate scoreboard says. Read it and weep.
23 Aug 2010, 01:03 am
NZ Herald
By Chris Rattue
5:30 AM Monday Aug 23, 2010
Rugby has rarely been better to watch, if ever, and this re-built All Black team is already among the best ever.
The All Blacks were magnificent, nullifying South Africa’s famed home advantage and finishing them off with two late tries that should rank high in any memory that can cope with the cluttered modern day test schedule.
As for the Springboks, they are in even bigger trouble than we thought.
If that’s the best the world champs can come up with in a home colosseum while celebrating John Smit’s century of tests, then they are indeed one large tank skidding out of control down one very steep hill.
No wonder Smit sank to his knees after Ma’a Nonu had created Israel Dagg’s superbly taken winner.
The Boks had a lot of initial huff, then ran out of puff. They were clearly second best, even if it did take a late score to prove this.
As a devoted critic of the All Blacks’ last World Cup campaign and, subsequently, the deplorable treatment of Robbie Deans, I gladly concede that Graham Henry is doing a brilliant re-building job, aided by the crucial rule-interpretation changes which encourage skilful ball work by making defenders struggle at breakdowns.
His supporters will have growing feelings of vindication.
Henry’s new All Blacks have a remarkable poise and nose for victory.
These All Blacks are also taking the game further as a spectacle, with far more to come when players such as Dagg are fully integrated into the deal.
The note of caution must be that so much relies on Richie McCaw’s presence. He is, without a shadow of doubt to my mind, the best player rugby has seen – as in the most effective – for a very long time. Perhaps ever.
If it came to picking a world combination of the past 40 years whose sole mission was to win a mythical game, R. McCaw should be the first name on any team sheet. His all-round game is extraordinary to behold.
McCaw’s ability to work the rules and delay opposition ball saved a try in Jo’burg, and his corner-flag finish to score the late leveller was truly exceptional (although poor officiating failed to spot a blatant All Black forward pass).
Rugby is bristling, and again the credit goes to Henry and his team. They are showing the rugby world how to play, in a way that probably only Australia would match if they had more power.
Remembering rugby from the past is like remembering New Zealand life long ago. Both had their charms, but overall – and with the benefit of hindsight – they were a bit of a bore.
The highlight reels, on television and in the mind, play wicked tricks, turning them into magical days.
Watch those old matches in their entirety for the whole truth, nothing but the truth. The game of yesteryear staggered about, littered with interruptions. Few teams – the Auckland side of the late 1980s and early 1990s being one – could rise above the dross.
That’s all we knew at the time, and loved the whole charade.
New rugby is the real deal.
The ball handling under brutal pressure is exceptional. The repeated collisions between massive men is frightening. The all-round skill and athleticism is stunning, an example being Brad Thorn’s crucial diving tackle yesterday morning.
Surfaces are better, way better, and the balls user friendly, unlike those slippery bricks we hurled about back in the day.
We used to drool over revolutionary prop Steve McDowall throwing a long pass, but now every tight forward can do that, as Tom Donnelly showed with his try-creator for wonder wing Tony Woodcock.
The test game needs more long range breaks and open field running, a la the All Black tries at Soccer City.
Apart from that, the game is in fine fettle the All Blacks’ way, with a healthy balance between set pieces, collisions, passing and kicking.
The world champion Springboks are not in good health though, and desperate changes to their line-up failed to find victory.
The South African Rugby Union are bonkers if Peter de Villiers, the fake coach, remains in charge.
Luckily for their World Cup opponents, South Africa’s rugby administrators are so immature that a few rough on-field decisions get them barking about quitting a multimillion- dollar broadcasting deal they’ve only just extended.
The Boks may improve when influential halfback Fourie du Preez returns, although Francois Hougaard was lively yesterday.
From this distance the calm du Preez is the logical captaincy replacement for the fading Smit, although the well-liked No 9 has a retiring personality.
Coach de Villiers lacks the authority to clean out the old guard and make tactical changes. He is groping in the dark, and his latest backline was too lightweight for the modern rugby battle. Their battle plan is confused.
The Springboks went overboard with the Smit centenary celebrations pre-match.
The front row legend could not put the icing on his party cake, failing to get out of a waddle compared to the dynamic work of Keven Mealamu.
South Africa, with vast playing resources, is suffering for failing to take the job of national coach seriously enough.
23 Aug 2010, 01:09 am
@danuk(danuk)-90: Apologies, it was 46: Nartjie, cheers
23 Aug 2010, 01:11 am
The reality is the Boks always had the measure of the All Blacks. Up to 1996 when the game turned professional and the ANC started their campaign to get control of SAn rugby things started spiralling and still are. Up to 1996 the Boks were leading the ABs by 21 test wins to 18. After that is all went pear shaped…..
What one see in the general state of SA is what one see in SAn rugby to.
Sad but true…..!!!
23 Aug 2010, 01:20 am
@fredman(fredman)-120:
In some ways you are right as that’s what the stats will say.
However, the refereeing in both the 1970 and 1976 series in SA was nothing short of blatant myopic control.
To then add insult to injury by not allowing our Maori players to compete in most of the other tours, completed the biased scale we had to operate on.
Pound for pound, we edge you.
23 Aug 2010, 01:23 am
Post 118:
Rattue quotes “the deplorable treatment of Robbie Deans” WTF??? As a kiwi, this is embarrassing to read.
How was Deans treated so deplorable, as he puts it?
In a 2 horse race, he came second, and his record with Australia and Henrys continued record with NZ suggests the right decisions were made, nothing whatsoever “deplorable” about that.
23 Aug 2010, 01:29 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-117:
And I will add, the Bok’s only purple patches over the AB’s are when the AB’s are generally slightly weaker than usual.
It takes the Boks to be at their best and NZ to be under par to yield a Bok win.
When the two are at their best, NZ has generally prevailed.
I’m not so ignorant to suggest that we always see the best of whats available from SA as well, the politically-laced admin of SARU is a disease that needs eradication.
23 Aug 2010, 02:48 am
@ KiaKahaNZ(KiaKahaNZ)- 121
Refereeing will always be a controversial thing and its up to the team to adjust to that. If the Boks had their blacks and the ABs had their Maoris in from the start the balance would have been the same so the stats i think would’ve been the same.
I cant help but wondering if the ABs were under the same political pressure as the Boks were for the last 10+ years how the stats would’ve looked right now. The Boks dont have the luxury of a stable and sane thinking rugby system behind them. They have to contend and make the best of an African mentality that is almost impossible for the average Kiwi to comprehend.
I dont think you ever “edged” the Boks. I think the failure of the African system came at just the right time to tip the balance in the ABs favour.
I realy cant blame the Boks for not having that deep rooted pride and commitment towards their country anymore…..!
23 Aug 2010, 02:56 am
@fredman(fredman)-120: The SA differential of 3 wins was because the Boks had 6 more home tests than the ABs in that comparison and — highly significantly — with the added advantage of having these home-town tests officiated by SA home-town referees. And SA’s home-town referees set the gold standard of being one-eyed and biased as ALL visiting teams frequently vouched.
Since neutral refs started blowing these contests, the SA lead evaporated and has continued to go into reverse.
23 Aug 2010, 03:02 am
@fredman(fredman)-124: The All Blacks really couldn’t care less who or what SARU decides to put on to the field and/or who coaches or mentors them.
They’re not interested in the plethora of bizarre excuses and all the sundry grizzles and gripes from SA either.
They just play — and routinely beat — whoever is put up against them. Keeping it simple.
23 Aug 2010, 03:15 am
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-7:
That’s simple. SA has always had a penchant for 10 man rugby. They have always believed in the forwards belting up the opposition and scoring the bulk of their points with penalties and dropped goals.
For the last 20 years, NZ have been trying to move away from that style and embrace a ball in hand, running 15 man game and the differences have really showed this year.
Last year, SA with it’s boring but dominant 10 man kicking game, beat an NZ side who had some terrible play makers in the likes of Steven Donald and others, but have this year, paid the price for this out dated style once the ABs fixed their personnel problems.
At S14 level however, SA has finally realised, that after their forwards have beaten up the opposition, ball in hand reaps the rewards, and they open up their opposition time and again scoring tries.
Perhaps SA style has been reinforced by the belief that winning RWCups revolve around this boring 10 man style, so therefore it must be the same at all test level.
Time will tell, but SA must now evolve their game out of their comfort zone if they want to keep up.
IMO tho, I think if they do, as proved at S14 level, they can be a real danger.
Just needs a change of thinking at a national level, and I guess, therein lies their major hurdle as this is a 100 year mindset.
23 Aug 2010, 04:17 am
SA rugby, players and style are every bit as good as anything to come out of NZ. If SA rugby is so bad, with a clown coach groping in the dark, playing a 10 man style, as is stated by some people here, then how did the AB’s only manage to win at the last stage of the game?
23 Aug 2010, 04:20 am
@fredman(fredman)-118:
Sjoe Chris! Not sure why we bother, should just give the World Cup to NZ now and not bother to go next year. That way everyone can save a heap of money and NZ can use the time to parade the trophy at all the new venues they build.
I am sure if they look in the cupboard they will find some left over (or is that unused?) tickertape parade banners and stuff to help, with the euphoria nobody will even note the wrong years on the banners. I also know from reliable sources that they have plenty of brasso to help them keep the cup nice and shiny…
23 Aug 2010, 04:23 am
@ TheTackler(TheTackler)- 125:
Blaming refs is NOT the Kiwi way (or is it?)
126: You are stating a basic and logic human instinct when you say the ABs dont care. That is however not the point. The reality and point is the reason why the ABs seem better than the Boks nowadays. Read my post again and try and stay on it.
23 Aug 2010, 04:40 am
@fredman(fredman)-130:
You must excuse Tackles, he is a little stressed out. He repainted his caravan and got clean bricks to rest it on as he heard accommodation will be high in demand next year. Turns out not a lot of people are interested in a black caravan with a view of the abolition block after all….
23 Aug 2010, 05:03 am
Hell its a whinging kiwi blog today, must be boring in NZ!
Fitzy, the man that bought cheating to rugby, so **** off.
The great rubgy tradition playing the Boks and Abs will not diminish if we leave ZANZAR but what will happen is NZ rugby will, as it runs a lot loss now, will loose lots of money.
South Africa needs to leave SANZOO. The sooner we leave behind this circus the better. And guess what it is going to happen.
This about money and not tradition
23 Aug 2010, 05:04 am
@fredman(fredman)-124:
Did the black people of SA play rugby pre 1980, or more importantly, since 1900 or so? Its an honest question. The Maori’s certainly did here in NZ.
There’s a difference between refereeing being a controversial thing, having to play the ref, and then there are refs who get paid or otherwise compensated for their work on the pitch.
SA were notorious and still are for doing whatever it takes off the pitch to achieve victory on it.
The political systems, intervention etc, are obviously drawn against the apartheid system that was in place – is it there way to try and right the wrongs ?, or throw a little payback ?, you can discuss that all day and night. We cant change that part of the SA setup, but we are delighted at the appointment of neutral referees as it does bring a sense of balance.
131. SLARTIBARTFAS: Ablution, ie toilet block, is that you were referring to?
23 Aug 2010, 05:11 am
@KiaKahaNZ(KiaKahaNZ)-133:
Oops yes Kia but with the general disrepair of the building in front of his caravan you can never be to sure…
By the way, be careful with picking up the spelling mistakes. Tackles takes it very seriously and gets a little grumpy when others jump in!
23 Aug 2010, 05:35 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-134: I’m very happy to see everyone bucking up on their often rather-iffy spelling. If you don’t care, it betrays a sloppy mind.
23 Aug 2010, 05:37 am
What’s an “abolition block”? What is being abolished there? Slavery? Alcohol?
Bad spelling?
We need more of those abolition blocks.
23 Aug 2010, 05:40 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-132: “The great rubgy(sic) tradition playing the Boks and Abs(sic) will not diminish if we leave ZANZAR(sic) but what will happen is NZ rugby will, as it runs a lot loss(sic) now, will loose(sic) lots of money.”
Head off to the abolition block, pilgrim.
23 Aug 2010, 05:42 am
135. TheTackler(TheTackler) then you are an arsehole as you have an anal mind
23 Aug 2010, 06:08 am
all this talk of pre-isolation..
the tally was 21-18 to the Bokke..
and as we’ve seen the last two years, a 3 game lead is nothing..
12 games however
23 Aug 2010, 06:21 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-136:
Come now Tackles, it is right outside your caravan and you telling me you don’t know what it is? Surely the smell alone should give it away.
23 Aug 2010, 06:30 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-138: You are just as deficient in physiology as you are are in spelling, obviously!
23 Aug 2010, 07:10 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-138: Just wonder what options the SA rugby have if they leave?
23 Aug 2010, 07:11 am
Interesting childish comment from Blek Panter (#81?) squealing about Burger not giving McCaw the ball when it was a Bok throw in. Do you really want the refs to cheat that much more? Note McCaw trying to claw Burger’s face – not a squeal from you – just a hint of double standards?
I think AB celebrations on winning the TN were a bit subdued. This is the year that what Fritzpatprick started with manipulating the match officials has peaked. The players are actually just a smaller part of greater NZ strategy so they don’t get as much satisfaction from the win as if they had done so cleanly.
23 Aug 2010, 07:20 am
@husky(husky)-143: well thats a load of bollacks, Trust me the boys got a lot of satisfaction from that win, espically infront of so many saffas and spoiling the party of the great springboks captain.
23 Aug 2010, 07:25 am
So if SA want to leave what are their realistic options?
23 Aug 2010, 07:31 am
@husky(husky)-143:
3-0
23 Aug 2010, 07:48 am
congratulations to the ABs and all their fans…
they are by far the superior team and worthy 3N Champions 2010.
@poppa69(poppa69)-146:
pay back’s a b!tch…
enjoy it…!!
23 Aug 2010, 07:55 am
@ufo(ufo)-147: cheers UFO… was a very cruel way for your boys to lose it…was a great great test match though and really a draw would have been a fitting response..
I did think the ABs really weathered the intensity of the Bokke well, and its a shame the Bok didnt play with that when they toured…
I know after last year how many of you feel…
23 Aug 2010, 07:59 am
@husky(husky)-143:
“This is the year that what Fitzpatrick started with manipulating the match officials has peaked.”
since 96 you mean?
bwahahahahaha
classic, how have you managed to survive this long with that level of paranoia??
23 Aug 2010, 08:01 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-148:
you’re welcome bud… you and BP and the other AB fans put up with a lot of abuse on this site… but still keep on blogging… so this win is sweet revenge for you… and well deserved…
i see it differently… it wasn’t a cruel way to lose it… it was a stupid way to lose it… our guys thought they had it in the bag… and just had to hang on… the ABs played until the whistle and deserved the win… no doubt…
23 Aug 2010, 08:02 am
@ KiaKahaNZ(KiaKahaNZ)-133 :
No mate no blacks played rugby on national level. That exactly is my point. Very few are/were interested in playing but if they were allowed to play from the beginning the playing field would’ve been level again and i dont think the outcome would’ve been any different. The real problem since ’96 is the political pressure being put on players and coaches in order for the ANC to achieve their goals. They will go to any length to force their will. If the ABs had that kind of pressure on them the Boks would’ve led by 12 games or more today.
Have you seen what the recent junior SAn junior teams look like and what the junior ABs did to them? That is the foundation of SAn rugby. That is a product of the reigning ANC government. That is the future of SAn rugby mate. It started spiralling in 96 because of that and i cant see it loosing momentum.
I dont want to get into the ref debat. That is a twin edged sword and teams have for ever in most sports lived or died by it. It dont carry any weight for me.
23 Aug 2010, 08:13 am
@ufo(ufo)-150: lol its all banter mate, each gets a turn
the MCaw try I would not have been upset if it was ruled the other way, so think we were extremely lucky to get that call…
but that game reminded me of why I love Bok/AB clashes so much… nothing else compares rugby wise
23 Aug 2010, 08:22 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-152:
yeah… that’s why i wasn’t upset with Dagg’s try… it put the result beyond doubt and stopped what would have been a lot of moaning…
it was a tough old hard game though…
23 Aug 2010, 08:33 am
@ufo(ufo)-153: it was an exciting game all the way through too… some great runs made by both sides, boks were very tough in the tackle…
gotta head to work
cheers
23 Aug 2010, 08:35 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-154:
gotta work too…
have a good one…!!
23 Aug 2010, 09:08 am
Cheers UFO
you da man
23 Aug 2010, 09:58 am
@husky(husky)-143:
The lineout was certainly ruled in favour of SA, but there was no way Jane put his foot out prior to releasing the ball and it being taken over the line by SB.
Another example of disgraceful and inept officiating by the Ref and his assistant. At least they were not showing bias I suppose.
Had the Ref’s been half competent and actually saw what was perfectly clear, a penalty should have been awarded for deliberately throwing the ball away to prevent a quick throw by NZ right on the goal line.
However, in consoltation, NZ did earn a penalty almost immediatley from the ensuing lineout because of another “professional foul”.
23 Aug 2010, 10:09 am
Brads
a YC for Gouger, no less. The ABs moved the ball 70m, nearly scored, and Gouger took the ball out 0.5m from the tryline. He threw it away, intently. Worse than Mitchells YC for obstruction.
Let the locals whinge about missed incidents, 1-eyed nonsense.
23 Aug 2010, 10:27 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-158:
I am not a fan of yellow cards, and certinaly not in this instance. A penalty for sure.
But first up, the Ref has to rule that way.
At this level, you would think the ref and his assistants would not miss as much as they do. Good grief, I actually thought upping the involvement of the touch judge to assistant refs would improve things, instead it seems they are missing more than they ever did.
23 Aug 2010, 11:08 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-158: BP, funny about ole boy george (gollum perhaps?) or to use his very own LOTR analogy
© Legend of the Trophy Returns (LOTR’s ® )
The title refers to the story’s main antagonist, the Dark Lord Sour-one (heavens game), who had in an earlier age created the One thing (conspiracy) to rule the other nations of Power as the ultimate weapon in his campaign to conquer and rule all of Rugby-earth. From quiet beginnings in the Shire, a tokoloshe land not unlike the English countryside, the story ranges across Rugby-earth, following the course of the War of the Rugby through the eyes of its characters, notably the hobbits Frodo cant Nabhims “McCaw” , Danwise “not metronomic” Gamgee, Meriadoc Brandybuck (Merry) and peregrin Took (Pippin), but also the tokoloshes’ chief allies: Blowthehorn, an Irish referee ranger, P.Dimli, a tokoloshe plant (a clown dressed as a dwarf), Legoless, an “exhausted at altitude” elf magic, and without fail, Paddy “Gandalf” O’brien, a wizard.
they have stolen two of the preciousess alreadyss
mean little hobbitsesss
23 Aug 2010, 12:25 pm
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-6:
Mccaw was not offside and he was entitled to the ball…until a ruck was formed or the scrum half came to deliver the ball.
In that episode there were two simultaneous rucks in the space of seconds…he went for the ball on the second ruck….yet same breakdown.
The Bok player in this instance created a second ruck which entitled Richie to go for the ball and also changed the offside marker.
It was legit…check when the breakdown happens…the rucking and then a bok player does a pick and drive in that same breakdown…Richie goes for the ball in the pick and drive but because the bokke falls over…richie did not tackle him…he became entitled to the ball in another ruck stuation.
23 Aug 2010, 12:28 pm
@poppa69(poppa69)-160: Just for you Kiwiprat
The Battle of Soccer City.
A legend was made on Saturday. Like the Alamo in Texas this was a last stand of sort for the Bok, its only remaining 90000 supporters and 22 warriors.
General Houston De Villiers and his able Captain Smit led their men in a ferocious last stand against the All Black Mexican General Santa Anna Henry and his fiery Lieutenant “Suarez” McCaw.
The odds were overwhelming – this was the whole world of rugby and a sizeable proportion of Saffas themselves against their own defenders of the Saffa Bok rugby faith. The entire world and these Saffas wanted to see the Bok driven into the ground and destroyed. After this match they may have their collective wishes fulfilled – the Bok may never be seen again on the hearts or chest of rugby warriors and will surely be consigned to a mere sleeve on jersey for the next global battle – the World Cup.
Nevertheless the Battle of the Alamo in Soccer City began in earnest. The tip of the spear for the rest of the World was led on the field by Santa Anna Henry’s Lieutenant “Suarez” McCaw. Renowned for being dirty fighters, but devious enough to escape censure, this speartip was arrogantly certain that the Boks were there to be taken – to lie down and die quietly without a fight – to fade away gently and not burn out with fire. But they were wrong – for the first time the referees in battle were scrupulously fair and The Bok defenders – even with overwhelming odds and the whole World of Rugby against them – at last had a somewhat fair and level battle field.
The heroic Alamo Boks set out to defy everyone and instead of siegeguns being aimed at these defenders of the Bok faith – the siegeguns were turned on the attackers. The prime prize fighter guns were Davey Crockett Burger and Jim Bowie Juan Smith.
Like a constant knife through All Black butter Bowie Smith slashed and cut his way through the enemy’s waves. Crockett Burger meanwhile did justice to his legend as Bearfighter and “King of the Wild Frontier” – for his battle was as wild as it gets, and indeed he drew many first bloods including the first try.
The ferociousness of the Boks in their Alamo was a sight to behold with said ferociousness of Crockett Burger and Bowie Smith accompanied by Cavalry riders JPP, De Jong and Aplon slashing and burning the Mexican All Black attackers. For many moments it seemed that the History of the Alamo would be defied, but slowly the defenders of the Bok faith succumbed to attrition and errors of reinforcement in Battle. Bowie Juan Smith – the legendary knifefighter, the consigner to bullsh.yte of nonsensical calls for a fetcher type fighter – was replaced in battle by a comparatively ineffectual fetcher Flo-the-flower. Lieutenant DuP was replaced by the horrendous CJ and the bulwark scrums then hit turbo-reverse. Crockett Burger fought on but alone, for Cavalry riders Aplon, JPP, De Jong were outnumbered and slowly overwhelmed. He never gave up and received a rough tap in the face from a seemingly dishonourable Suarez McCaw…
But History was defied, and although this Alamo fell, these Mexican All Blacks were honourable in victory. They did not arrogantly call for the execution of the remaining Bok-Texan heroes left standing (like many Bok supporters) – Crockett Burger and Bowie Smith were saluted in their loss and an honourable Suarez McCaw shook their hands after the dying embers of battle had subsided – they live to fight again after this Alamo, secure in the knowledge that they along with their antagonist Suarez were the best warriors on display in this legendary Battle.
What of the rest of the attackers? – Santa Anna Ted and his crew of All Blacks truly showed how to win honourably – this was for once a fair victory not blighted by one sided agents in the referee ranks – this battle was reffed scrupulously in a fair way.
Their warriors and supporters have mostly shown respect as victors and for these conquerors of this Alamo this only deserves a reciprocal no holds barred salute (Not for those continually, unreasonably critical so-called Bok supporters). Win or Lose, may many future battles replicate Saturday past.
Epilogue: This “war correspondent” hates undeserved and unfair losses – this last loss was undeserved due to the courage and ferocity on display by the Bok defenders of the faith and but for a few tactical and replacement errors of the Bok General Houston Piet this battle may have been won – however this loss was fair and victors were truly deserved, especially for their truly great onfield Captain – Suarez McCaw. The fair truly outweighs the undeserved loss to make this battle truly memorable.
23 Aug 2010, 12:43 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-162: Obviously Hougaard deserves a mention – horrendously left out but not forgotten…
23 Aug 2010, 12:50 pm
Sing us another one, Boy George !
23 Aug 2010, 12:51 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-162: thats probably one of your better posts..
but..
theres always a but,
they say a chameleon
that is blind will STILL change colour when the environment around it changes..
I tend to believe them..
23 Aug 2010, 12:56 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-162:
“…their truly great onfield Captain – McCaw.”
WOW! Are you ok?
23 Aug 2010, 13:07 pm
@poppa69(poppa69)-165: This chameleon’s colour in rugby is forever Green and Gold at national level but with a switch to Black and White for S14 and Currie Cup.
This chameleon believes that the 3N and S15 is forever flawed and those “colours” will never change. Far better a reciprocal Biannual tour against the ABs interspersed with the Wallabies.
This chameleon will not back down from the perception that the Boks are not given a fair deal by Oirish refs in particular…
Other than that, the loss this WE, though hard to take, was fair and truly deserved for a strangely chokeless ABs, while at the same time was undeserved for some Bok heroes.
Nevertheles hostilities will always resume before an AB/Bok match because the Boks are second to none.
However this year may be the last of the Boks (no room on the chest for the emblem next year). Won’t that be happyness -is for those whose hate for anyone in Green and Gold grows evermore frenzied…
But can only respect the way of winning on Sat. You can be proud of your Captain – son of a gun Suarez McCaw – truly a warrior.
23 Aug 2010, 13:12 pm
I seriously believe that if we harnessed all the strengths of the different types of rugby played by the different types of racial groups in South Africa, we could be better than the All Blacks year after year. Our rugby as is, is mundane and predictable, it is not entertaining even when we were winning. We need to get rid of all our prejudices!, New Zealand was only able to play that brand of rugby once the Maoris started playing alongside their white country men, it is then that they incorporated their diffrent styles to formulate their current style of rugby which is renowned world wide. IN FOOTBALL IT IS THE SAME, BRAZIL, A CLASSIC EXAMPLE. WHETEHR WE WANT TO ADMIT IT OR NOT BLACK FOLK HAVE MORE CREATIVITY AND AGILITY, SO WHY DO WE NOT WANT THIS SUCCESS FOR OUR COUNTRY. THE BLACK PEOPLE OF THE EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE HAVE BEEN PLAYING RUGBY FOR OVER A 100 YEARS, WHY DO WE INSIST ON HAVING THIS GLASS CEILING FOR ALL ASPIRING TALENTED BLACK PLAYERS WHO EXCELL. WHY ARE THEY ALWAYS RELEGATED TO BEING ON THE WING. BLACK PEOPLE COULD BE DEVELOPED MORE SO TO BE ANY OF THE LOOSE TRIO, SCRUMHALF, FLYHALF, INFACT MOST OF THE BACKLINE POSITIONS. COME ON PEOPLE, LET US PUT MORE RESOURCES IN ASSISTING DEVELOP THESE YOUNG PLAYERS. SOME HOW THERE IS AN OBSESSION IN SOUTH AFRICA ABOUT SIZE BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT IS CODE FOR RACE. RUGBY IS A GAME THAT WAS CREATED BY THE ENGLISH, TO BE ENJOYED BY ALL.
23 Aug 2010, 13:14 pm
@Muttonbird(Muttonbird)-166: HG gave it his best shot at Kiwi tyranny on the rugby field and adminsitration off field – but is truly a beaten Bok supporter after this WE.
No concession for the first 2 tests and the thorough unfairness of their circumstance – but this Saturday – truly no confounding factors – Leaving only bitter honour in losing and regretful admiration for honour in victory…
Now where are the razorblades…
23 Aug 2010, 13:16 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-167: so the colour does change? lmao
agree though, I dont think Smit deserved to lose in his 100th test the way he did…
sports cruel as we all know..
its good to see your passion for your team, even though it can sometimes be a little misguided
Always been proud of our captain, will be extremely hard when he retires, and I for one am priviledged to see him play… much like Juan Smith, who I have always rated and admired…
I can imagine the outrage at moving the emblem, I would be equally upset if they tried to remove the silver fern from the chest..
23 Aug 2010, 13:26 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-167:
Plenty of “warriors” on Saturday HG.
Some players made mistakes. But that’s life.
In an Interview after the game, Brad Thorn said it was the greatest experience of his Rugby life.
Brad…………Kangaroo, Cane Toad, Bronco, Cantabrian, Crusader and All Black.
Shows what a match it was.
Ranks with the very best ever………..in my humble opinion.
A courier came to a battle once bloody and loud
And found only skin and bones where he once left a crowd
Fear not little darling of dying
If this world be sovereign and free
For we’ll fight to the last for as long as liberty be
Hey Up Santa Anna, they’re killing your soldiers below
So the rest of Texas will know
And remember the Alamo
(Donovan)
23 Aug 2010, 13:31 pm
@poppa69(poppa69)-170: The Black and White being for the Sharks… That is the only colour change possible…
Passion for a team is never misguided from HG especially when highlighting unfairness and deviousness, which were absent this weekend from the Kiwis…
Nevertheless enjoy this victory – it was a true one and no excuses –
no quarter given and none asked for.
23 Aug 2010, 13:39 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-171: It was a truly memorable battle – though a hard one to swallow for the losers on the day.
But these Boks gave it all for once this year – but the ABs took the kitchen sink and threw it back.
Yeah the Alamo of Soccer City will be remembered and hopefully for the right reasons especially the Burger and Smith:
“Their land is biggest, and their land is best
From grassy plains to the mountain crest
They’re ahead of us all in meeting the test
Followin’ their legend right into the West
Schalkie, Schalkie Burger, King of the Wide Frontier
King of the Wild Frontier.”
Till next year, HG has now blown his AB load…
23 Aug 2010, 13:47 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-172: oh the sharks
thought you may have been from the cape 
but fair dues… at the end of the day we all want our team to win..
to lose as they did is heartbreaking, have experienced similar so know the feeling..
23 Aug 2010, 14:40 pm
@poppa69(poppa69)-174: Madness on thinking anything other than the Sharks – like the Boks a follower through thick and thin – Sharks looking thick on winning at the moment…
23 Aug 2010, 19:46 pm
1(1) NZL NEW ZEALAND 94.29
2(2) RSA SOUTH AFRICA 86.15
3(3) AUS AUSTRALIA 85.11
4(4) FRA FRANCE 82.75
5(5) IRE IRELAND 82.03
6(6) ENG ENGLAND 81.82
7(7) SCO SCOTLAND 79.81
8(8) ARG ARGENTINA 79.70
9(9) WAL WALES 78.58
South Africa wants to leave the first division and join the second?
After a few years of playing in the first division I believe Argentina would be 2 or 3 while after spending the same time in the second div South Africa would be firmly #4.
23 Aug 2010, 19:54 pm
@Auntie Mavis(Auntie Mavis)-176: missing us already?
24 Aug 2010, 06:33 am
By the way it was a bok throw in morons, so he could throw the ball away.
Richie shoulda got a red for playing the players face but as we know this is a circus with a kiwi at the top of the pile.
24 Aug 2010, 06:54 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-178:
i like the way the replayed it over and over like the bakkies head butt but unfortunately this is Ritchie “untouchable” Mccaw he can get away with pretty much anything – if it had been been the other way round the citing commissioner would have been on to it in a flash
24 Aug 2010, 11:29 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-178:
Burger took the ball out, Jane did not. Burger threw away the ball – why otherwise would he ?
Its yet another eg of your double-standards – see ‘the ones they got away with’ but not see any of the Boks. That way it perpetuates the whole victimisation myth supported by cheating accusations and refereeing conspiracies. Lets ‘see’ Woodcock get away with a (valid) YC, but ignore, for another eg, Burger gouging Pocock in Brisbane, an automatic RC (his 2nd-avoided-RC in 12months).
Moron.
As for McCaw’s ‘RC’ – Ive been wondering all week which incident this was all week until I watched replay at home. I just assumed it wasnt the face-swipe where McCaw is trying to get AB ball back from Gouger. Youre farken kiddin’, right ?!
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.