Boks must back Butch
23 Aug 2010
RYAN VREDE argues that Butch James must start at flyhalf at Loftus.
In announcing his squad for the Tri-Nations, Springboks coach Peter de Villiers told the media that the World Cup winning flyhalf had had limited opportunities in the incoming tour Tests, and because of this he deserved an opportunity to prove he still had the aptitude for Test rugby.
That opportunity has amounted to 39 minutes out of a possible 320. This while Morne Steyn struggles to replicate the form that saw him monopolise the shirt in 2009. James’s time is now.
Steyn is an excellent goal kicker and is suited to the kick-chase approach that the Springboks employ as a primary means of attack. However, he has failed to consistently display the variation that is a feature of his play with the Bulls and was evident with the Springboks in 2009.
Against the All Blacks in Auckland Steyn took the ball to the advantage line just thrice in 33 handles, with a solitary linebreak. A week later in Wellington Steyn attacked the gain line four times with zero success in 35 handles, while against Australia in Brisbane he breached the defence once in 19 handles. While typically accurate in his goal-kicking (sinking six from six) Steyn’s struggles with ball in hand continued at Soccer City.
Tellingly, just once in the aforementioned matches has he offloaded in contact – a marked feature of the Blacks’ Dan Carter and Wallabies’ Quade Cooper’s play. Carter had made nine play-maker offloads in four matches prior to Saturday’s Test in Soweto, while Cooper made four in the one match he played prior to his suspension. One doesn’t need to elaborate on the value of a flyhalf who creates attacking opportunities in this way.
There are mitigating factors, the most notable being the Springboks coaches’ unrelenting fascination with a flawed, pragmatic game plan. Their impotency at the tackle point on attack and consistent inability to deplete the opposition’s defence through multiple phases is another. And there can be no doubt that his potency is diminished in the absence of Fourie du Preez, who takes immense pressure off his flyhalf through his all-round excellence.
With nothing to gain from the remaining Tests, there can be no justifiable reason to omit James from the run-on side. Steyn’s selection will amount to nothing more than a conservative move from a desperate coach.
James, who impressed with Bath in 2009 before an injury sidelined him, watched the entire match in Soweto from the wood. De Villiers argued that the result could have rested on a 50m penalty and that in that situation Steyn was his go-to man. That rationale is understandable given that Steyn is a superior goal-kicker with experience in sinking pressure kicks.
But the next two Tests must be used to measure James in order to accurately establish the depth at pivot. The stocks were trimmed with Ruan Pienaar’s departure for Ulster, and outside of Peter Grant and more recently 19-year-old Pat Lambie, none at franchise level have impressed.
James physicality in defence will be a boon against the hot-stepping Cooper, while his directness in attack – something De Villiers says was lacking in the second half in Soweto – will add a dimension to the Springboks’ play which has been sorely lacking.
There is no risk in the selection. James is an experienced player, versed in the ethos and playing philosophy and whose combination with inside centre Jean de Villiers is well established. He is also a competent goal-kicker (there will be an insurance policy in Frans Steyn should Butch’s kicking boots still be in Bath) and has the skill to adapt to various styles of play.
James is a must for Loftus.
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267 Comments
23 Aug 2010, 05:11 am
Forget Butch select some one for the future. We need to test our player depth.
Dragons
23 Aug 2010, 05:18 am
I agree. We need to choose someone who will actually still be young after the WC.
23 Aug 2010, 05:18 am
Butch? Why not get a real retro #10? Get Lem Honiball to pull his old BG Continentals out of the attic.
23 Aug 2010, 05:21 am
I find it so ironic that now everyone is baying for the pragmatic approach to be dropped by the stubborn coaches and a distributive flyhalf to be picked….who woulda thought it 3 years ago when Snor came onto the scene with his “lets run the world ragged” philosophies and the general public calling pragmatism the best thing since sliced bread. The grass is always greener.
23 Aug 2010, 05:24 am
We don’t want a total change of game plan, just a fly-half who can do more than one thing.
23 Aug 2010, 05:30 am
@Ratman(Ratman)-5: lol, well put
23 Aug 2010, 05:33 am
I think the coaches had a bit of a catch 22 in the sense that Steyn has now clearly been exposed as being 1 dimensional especially without FDP but back when Pienaar was the incumbent during the BI Lions tour he was yanked off due to the pressure Steyn put primarily because of his boot. Had they simply stuck with Pienaar though and possibly sacrificed steyns boot by now I daresay we would have a complete 10 in Ruan
23 Aug 2010, 05:36 am
The Reds (and to a lesser degree wallabies) had a similar conundrum with Barnes who was a kicking 10. The Reds stuck by their creative flyhalf Cooper and Barnes left, now Queensland and Australia are reaping the rewards of a complete 10 while Barnes slowly fades into obscurity
23 Aug 2010, 05:38 am
FLANKA, or at least we would get to see if he COULD show great potential to mature int oa great no.10.
23 Aug 2010, 05:38 am
In summary: Kicking can be taught….creativity and instinct can not.
23 Aug 2010, 06:04 am
The 3N is lost for SA. It’s over. There’s far less at stake in the two tests against Oz than the tempting prize of a grand slam. But the grand slam won’t be secured with a weak B team.
So, if resting needs to be done, then now is the time.
But, when all is said and done, the big casualties of this year’s 3N have been PuffDivvy’s reputation as a rugby coach and the Boks’ pie-in-the-sky dreams of winning RWC2011 in Auckland.
It’s just not going to happen, pilgrims. May as well admit it and look for some redemption in far lesser areas like a grand slam tour.
Your dream died in Soccer City, right in front of 90000 eye witnesses.
23 Aug 2010, 06:06 am
There’s nothing wrong with playing Butch at 10, he’s still got it and can make the world cup. Would like to see Lambie take with for the EOYT and maybe given 10 mins here and there, the boy has it. Steyn looks lost at the mo with out FDP
23 Aug 2010, 06:30 am
If Butch James represents the solution at 10, we have HUGE problems.
Butch is a has-been, finish en klaar.
23 Aug 2010, 06:35 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-11: stadig oor die klippe pelgrimsrus. wereldbeker is eers volgende jaar
23 Aug 2010, 06:42 am
If Habanna didn’t leave his line for another glory-intercept, and if JS just held on to Nonu, in the last 5mins, MS’s kicking boot would have been the best thing since sliced bread!!!
You guys are hilarious!
The Boks were sublime in the 1st 60mins. They were simply on fit enough! As simple as that!!!
23 Aug 2010, 06:48 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-15: Thats not point, I would have taken a bad year this year, had we tried something new, but the fact that we’ve been playing from the same template since last year is concerning, we need to wake up
23 Aug 2010, 06:59 am
It’s one thing that brings about another one
The Boks backline doesn’t score too many tries lately, the pathetic, quota selected backs don’t even score at Super14 level, let alone at the test level, that in turn makes Morne Styen kicking to posts indispensable.
Simple
23 Aug 2010, 07:02 am
I personally think Butch is past it, he has had his time, SA have plenty of talented younger 10s that need to be developed.
23 Aug 2010, 07:03 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-15:
The selection of DeJongh at centre put paid for Habana’s tries scoring career, for a change it’s refreshing to see one quota ruins the test career of another, they usually ruins the careers of the merit selected players.
Habana is desperate now, that explains it.
23 Aug 2010, 07:03 am
@sharky_in_clapham(sharky_in_clapham)-16: Thats exactly the point! The gameplan works! Its proven last year. The guys just need to get fit!!! They need some rest, and then get fit!!!
If we have Brussow back, and the team is super fit, no team in the world will come close to us! FdP’s successor was brilliant, so that headache is cleared up as well.
23 Aug 2010, 07:11 am
@Kiwisamoan(Kiwisamoan)-18:
Nonsense, on two counts
1. Not enough time to groom a young, inexperienced flyhalf, unless you want to see Earl Rose there or the other pathetic clown Francis
2. Butch plays WELL, I watched his Bath’ resurgent and it was impressive, for the muddy NZ pitches, Butch is the logical choice, what exactly did we see from Styen last 4 tests?
23 Aug 2010, 07:14 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-20: The problem with that game plan is that teams work you out, wthl the change in interpretations this year, all the AB’s did was pick another FB on wing and wait for the bomb and then run it back through 79 phases. This year we needed to work out a new system and the same for next year, so when the world cup come we have a few different tatics
23 Aug 2010, 07:15 am
@Hondo(Hondo)-21: Their is Ruan who I think plays much better than Butch. I watched Butch playing in Bath as well and to be honest it wasn’t exactly outstanding rugby
23 Aug 2010, 07:16 am
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-14: All your slow, faded old toppies are going to be a year older and more faded. There’s nobody who is up-and-coming any more in the Bok team. They peaked in 2009 and it’s all downhill from here.
23 Aug 2010, 07:17 am
@Hondo(Hondo)-21: I agree, not enough time and Butch still has it and has been there done that, if we put all our money on Steyn and he has another bad season…then we fuct!!!
23 Aug 2010, 07:23 am
Butch is certainly not a thought that should be entertained
Our peculiar coach may just go out and dust Rose of for a game or 2
23 Aug 2010, 07:35 am
Butch a far better bet than the 1 dimensional donkey that is MS…..I absolutely agree that he should be given the shot at Loftus. Go for broke….lets try something innovative and exciting…..1 thing is now abundantly clear…..if we continue doing the same things we will get the same results….and we know what that means!.
Must give Skopskiet his dues….he called this train smash at 10 even when we were winning last year…..skoppie has proved his rugby acumen over and over…..far sighted gent that….
23 Aug 2010, 07:38 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-24: weve been here before. ab’s peaking a year before the world cup. whats new
23 Aug 2010, 07:39 am
forget Lambie who is just keeping JLP’s position warm. The future lies with Burton and Elton.
23 Aug 2010, 07:39 am
Jaques L Potgieter is the go-to guy!
23 Aug 2010, 07:40 am
@sharky_in_clapham(sharky_in_clapham)-22: I dont agree. McCaw said before the S14 semi this year, that knowing what the Bulls would do is one thing. Being able to stop it is another.
The execution of the gameplan is key. It worked well on Saturday, untill the guys got tired. Then it all went pearshaped.
The replacement of FH with RJ meant that the backs lost that good momentum built up during the game. He was slow again, and could not boot us out of trouble like FH did. The chasing of JdJ and Aplon was brilliant! The gameplan worked! The guys just got tired! For the life of me, I cannot understand how any international team can take the field without being able to play rugby at full tilt for 100mins.
Its beyond me!
23 Aug 2010, 07:41 am
Timing is everything. Pdivvy persisted Steyn for the crunch game and he was woeful. What does bringing in Butch for the Wallabies games prove? That hes a competent player? Didn’t we know that already? Unless Butch was brought in as some type of “genious” move to keep him warm for the next weold cup, it never made sense to keep a guy of his age warming the bench, when you could have been blooding a youngster with potential.
In fact, all the players Pdivvy has persisted with, haven’t repaid that faith. I would love to see the fitness stats! Smith looked the freshest and hungriest ‘bok on the park.
23 Aug 2010, 07:42 am
@RedLion is born again(RL)-29: I think JLP is going to be a bench warmer next year, Plum like Lambie and if he keeps playing like he is JLP doesnt have a chance
23 Aug 2010, 07:43 am
Peter Grant should have been given an opportunity this season after a very good Super 14.
23 Aug 2010, 07:44 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-31: theres not one team in the world that can do it. ab’s and aus were out on their feet after 30mins
23 Aug 2010, 07:44 am
@Ratman(Ratman)-5: Well thats kind of a contradiction aint it cos our gameplan is based on that one approached flyhalf.
Its Ironinc that everyone is shouting for the gameplan to change when the same people almost eradicated PDV when he wanted to change our gameplan 3 years ago , stick with the structures that Jake implemented they all shouted including the scribes @ Keo.
Now the in thing is what the ABS are playing , Ball in hand and they play what is in front of them !! Haa haa , check what PDV said 3 years ago , he wanted the same thing melted with SA traditional strength of forward dominance and a offensive defense.
23 Aug 2010, 07:44 am
@grant10(grant10)-27: Go for broke? Why not give Earl Rose a chance then? Lack of fitness was the problem on the weekend. Not MS.
23 Aug 2010, 07:45 am
@grant10(grant10)-27:
Hi Grant,
If they want to be innovative and exciting they should rather select someone like Lambie – he is the future and Bruce is the past – I can see Bruce getting frustrated and end up in the sin bin after trying to take the hot stepping Coopers head off in one of his infamous tackles.
I do not think they should make an ageing team even older at this stage – rather give the youngsters a run seeing that there is nothing to lose anyway.
23 Aug 2010, 07:45 am
die ref se oe sit in sy g@t .. missed a hugeeeee forward pass …. Hougaard het die rosseneri en mighty horua die gemorste stil gespeel … hou by die blou!!!
23 Aug 2010, 07:47 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-31: I agree with you, but if you put all your eggs in one basket and it doesnt work then what. I agree that the bomb and chase worked and you right when the miserable fat fu.cken excuse for a SH came on it went pair shapped. But we need to be able to do more that kick and chase, esp with the advantage of being able to keep the ball for ever and a day
23 Aug 2010, 07:48 am
@geroom_sexwater(geroom_sexwater)-39:
Are you still crying? 
23 Aug 2010, 07:49 am
no mighty …. i’m kinda glad we lost … the only way we will get rid of quota PDV
23 Aug 2010, 07:49 am
@Robzim(Robzim)-38: That would be asking this Management far too much i am afraid Rob…..it wont happen now, although i do believe a Lambie or Jantjes may be introduced on EOYT.
Again Rob we see the poor management ….P Grant sitting in Japan ….crazy stuff…..
This ship now firmly sinking…..
23 Aug 2010, 07:51 am
now they want the Bytch while on the other thread they say should have been Pienaar whilst less than a year ago Steyn was the ‘complete’ flyhalf without a flaw.
Palookas don’t know wtf they want, between Butch and FdP they f’d up the ’08 tri nations so bad now they trying to re-invent the wheel.
Between Pienaar, Grant and Steyn they had best of all worlds, a silky distrubuting running pivot ala Stephen Larkham, a hard running hard tackling crash ball line breaker ala Henry Honiball, and a dead eye d’ck kicking metronome ala Nasty Booter if all else failed and they really needed one. But now they’ve exhausted all their options and still can’t tell if they’re Arthur or Martha.
Had they started with Grant and Pienaar in ’08 as they should have and not reverted to the Butcher (which was another one of those senior player veto decisions taken) who butchered our chances pretty bad back then, we would have been up and running solid, now we’ve lost them both and we back where we started 3 and a half years ago.
Idiots supreme – and I blame it squarely on this reliance of giving senior players far too much say in matters team selection and tactics.
Grant and Pienaar should have been rotating the duties with M. Steyn as the backstop – Butch should still be bathing his sore knees in Bath.
23 Aug 2010, 07:51 am
One more thing , Butch James really ???? Whats the future ? How can we want to change our gameplan and rather tweek it but at the same time call for Butch ? He offers Zero , nothing.
I would instead give Lambie a chance instead. He is like Frans Steyn and Schalk Burger before him and seems to have the aptitude for test rugby from a earlier age. There is something special about him.
Lastly I was too depress on Saturday but congrats to the Sharks supporters , we were totally out muscled and outplayed. The last try cushioned the defeat for us a bit but it was not reflective of the match.
23 Aug 2010, 07:52 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-41: Boks should rather get rid of Plod, Victor, Spies and Morne Steyn! Otherwise all of the wifeys are crying coming Saturday vs Oz!
23 Aug 2010, 07:52 am
@sharky_in_clapham(sharky_in_clapham)-33: Lambie will play at FB only because Ludik offers nothing at the back and because he is a sick note … is he even walking after this weekends match?
23 Aug 2010, 07:55 am
If the butcher is the answer then I don’t want to know the question.
I’d rather play Elton “John” Jantjes than Butch.
23 Aug 2010, 07:55 am
i agree … pick chilliboy, lobberts, jantjies, eal tollie, earl rose, raubenheimer!!
23 Aug 2010, 07:58 am
how plod is still contemplating test rugby is far and beyond me…..now there is the real cancer….pdv wants to wrest back control from the ‘senior cabal’ ….my advice….pdv….get rid of the cancer once and for all…..they dragging you down and the blame being shifted pdv…..ultimately you will have to stand in the dock…..not smit!
Get rid of the poisonous snakes…..and the most poisonous is Smit!
23 Aug 2010, 07:59 am
there is one solution … pick the whole Blue Bulls super 14 team 2 play @ loftus ..no team in the world will beat them there
23 Aug 2010, 08:00 am
@geroom_sexwater(geroom_sexwater)-51:
wanna bet?
23 Aug 2010, 08:03 am
Ryan Vrede
Yes,Butch is a must! Your recommendations sound fimiliar – Wynand Olivier maybe
23 Aug 2010, 08:03 am
Poisonous snakes!
Oh dear how embraboer.
What evil spells have wicked senior players cast on the management team?
This is starting to sound like a Harry Potter novel..
23 Aug 2010, 08:04 am
@RedLion is born again(RL)-47: thats not the point, Lambie is light years ahead of JLP, the only chance he has in making the team is if he can play anther position, otherwise he’s going to be the orange peeler
23 Aug 2010, 08:07 am
Geez tough on the war horses.
Hougard, Smith & Burger were outstanding for the Bokke and Habana…WTF is going wrong there? How many times did this guy come off his wing? Africans whine about Spies (who was notably absent again) but Habana was atrocious. He made a few scything runs but definitely let in 2 tries. God awful stuff.
23 Aug 2010, 08:07 am
player rating @ sarugby
11: Bryan Habana – 3
Without a doubt the villain of the match. Habana was nothing but a liability on defence as he continued his obsession of breaking the defensive line in his quest for the intercept. The Test veteran gifted the opposition space on a number of occasions and was again at fault when McCaw scored to level the scores.
23 Aug 2010, 08:07 am
Oh and Flip VDM was brilliant as well. My bad.
23 Aug 2010, 08:08 am
juan smith killed cheat mccaw
23 Aug 2010, 08:09 am
@geroom_sexwater(geroom_sexwater)-57: Yep I reckon a stint on the pine would sharpen his wing skill. He needs to re-learn his position. Friggin idiot was playing centre all game. Unfu<kenbelievable.
23 Aug 2010, 08:09 am
@flanka(flanka)-4: quite right Flanka! Ryan Vrede was the FRONT cheerleader that the Boks shouldn’t play expansive rugby like the all blacks are doing! He called Peter de Villiers delusional for proposing a new way of playing!
The argument then was, how can de Villiers try and teach world cup winning players a new way of playing the game?
Pdv also FAILED to stamp his authourity on the team and dictate the gameplan, he capitulated from the pressure exerted by the media, senior players and his one assistant coach! Robbie Deans in comparison dropped all the old dogs in the Aus team who resisted his new philosophies.
23 Aug 2010, 08:10 am
@geroom_sexwater(geroom_sexwater)-59: Agree, Juan was all over McCaw. He was MOM in my books.
23 Aug 2010, 08:10 am
Victor Moffield’s name wasnt even mentioned by the moaning commentators! We need objective commentators! Supersport is just rubbish
23 Aug 2010, 08:11 am
@geroom_sexwater(geroom_sexwater)-59: juan was contender for mom, but so was richie
23 Aug 2010, 08:12 am
Vrede is tired of picking on Spies because he knows that Spies has the ear of Matfield so now he is after Steyn … very predictable.
Q. why is it that Steyn can get the Bulls backline moving but not the Boks.
23 Aug 2010, 08:13 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-61:
Trannie, the ONLY reason the Boks didn’t win on Saturday is they ran outta gas. The ABs are always a superbly tuned outfit, the Wallabies have suffered many a late try blitz and this time it was the Bokke.
The Boks threw everything at the AB and in my opinion they were immense. South Africa should be proud of the effort of the men in Green & Gold.
23 Aug 2010, 08:15 am
@geroom_sexwater(geroom_sexwater)-59: Sir Richard killed 90000 Bok Supporters!
23 Aug 2010, 08:15 am
@RedLion is born again(RL)-65: Steyn is a bot, therefore very predictable. He doesnt have the footspeed, razza-matazz to bamboozle the opposition. If your flyhalf cant break the line a couple of times a game he should be flipping burgers.
23 Aug 2010, 08:16 am
did you guys hear the BOO’s when january came on for hougaard?
23 Aug 2010, 08:17 am
There were a fair few all black supporters there..
Thank goodness for cheap flights from cape town..
23 Aug 2010, 08:18 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-67: McCaw was brilliantly subtle, most of the game
His only noticeable indiscretion was let go. Honestly should have been penalised but Nigel was consistent; he let the Boks off with as many.
Nigel and his assistants may have missed a few things but overall they all had a fine match.
23 Aug 2010, 08:21 am
@geroom_sexwater(geroom_sexwater)-69: Hougard is definitely going to the WCup. All SARU need to do now is find him an ideal flyhalf. When they nut that out… man things could get special!
23 Aug 2010, 08:21 am
@RugbyRulz(RugbyRulz)-71: Agree, Sir Richard the Lion Heart caused havoc and totally outsmarted the SENIORS
23 Aug 2010, 08:22 am
Congratulations All Blacks, worthy TriNations winners.
23 Aug 2010, 08:25 am
you’re an idiot Gunther, senior players veto certain decisions, like particularly the style if game ‘we like to play to our traditional strengths’ you dumbwit palooka. If you can’t see it now you never will. De Villiers gave up the mandate of who he was selecting and how he wanted to play to which style way back in ’08 when it was unanimously decided by open secret decree that Boks were ditching the ‘play the situation’ rugby for our ‘structured’ traditional strength kick and chase garbage plan we learned under that maestro of tacticians Jake White.
You like the rest of the dumb doos idiots follow these schmucks like a lamb to the slaughter, PdV gave Smit full veto rights who has created a system where they go down the one track mind road to oblivion. You can’t see it you obviously blind as a two stroke bat. This circus is a circus supreme and it started when players read the riot act to the coach and pulled a mutiny to demand they were going to play they game they knew and were comfortable with, which is exactly the game style that has lost us the last 6 internationals worth noting,, France , Ireland, Nz, Nz , Aus, Nz again all with Steyn at 10 and playing archaic JW garbage kick n chase rugby, with or without FdP makes no difference, play that game John Smit and you LOSE.
23 Aug 2010, 08:28 am
@geroom_sexwater(geroom_sexwater)-69: Deservedly so!
23 Aug 2010, 08:29 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-61: Yeah and look at the success OZ had last two years vs Boks ??
There are new rules this year that favour ball retention and in hand rugby. Last year the boot and fetch worked, so your genius has had the whole S14 to come up with a new game plan as demo’d by Bulls and WP….
What has he done ???? Bl**dy useless coach is PdV but a reasonable manager so unless SARU select on MERIT and not some brown nosers then we will rely on FdP/VM to run the show.
Before you leap up about current results they won the S14 so what is different ?????? Personnel or lack of professionalism …
23 Aug 2010, 08:30 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-75: Yep you are so right. The game played pre 2010 worked for the Boks but it wont work now. As all good things come to an end we reinvent ourselves to survive. Some endure and others fall by the side.
I will ask you an hypothetical question Skop.
If there was not the political interference, who would you select as the match 22, on current form?
23 Aug 2010, 08:33 am
So last year de Villiers was a decent coach who deserves all the credit?
And this year it’s the senior players’ fault?
Skopskiet you are a clown.
So shove it up your oil pipe.
23 Aug 2010, 08:34 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-75: You should be skopped, or shot!
YOU, my dear sir, are the blind/dumb one that cannot see that the structured gameplan worked! It worked well, untill the unfit Bokke lost focus in the last 10-15 mins. We had the game won! It was not the gameplan that lost us the game! It was a combination of poor conditioning, showpony habanna and complacency – we though we did enough!
23 Aug 2010, 08:35 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-75: So how did Bulls win the S14 ? Test rugby is different but where else are you going to select players ?
There is no confidence in PdV staff as they are clueless. Sorry but when you appoint a “weak” coach this is what happens.
23 Aug 2010, 08:35 am
I find it staggering that only Iceman above has mentioned Peter Grant. Lambie? Guys, for f8cks sakes, he’s a 15 who has played 10 a couple of times at cc level! Elton Jantjes!? Please man,he’s a schoolboy still. You people actually would take these guys before Grant – a young guy wth talent and experience who is coming into his prime. He had an EXCELLENT s14, with superb placekicking and -more importantly- the ability to draw defenders and put his lineaway at pace. Plus he tackles.
If anything, Pienaar is also a guy to persist with. James – with respect to him, this is not his time. It is utterly staggering that he is now touted as our saviour at 10 before Grant.
23 Aug 2010, 08:36 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-80:
Boks lost the game on fitness, Smit thought they could hang on. Against the ABs you go the full 80minutes because they keep coming.
23 Aug 2010, 08:41 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-80: Showpony Habana? WTF about show-elephant Spies and Morne Steyn? He gets a penalty and which should give the Boks a lineout…no..he wants to be Carlos Spencer with the banana!
23 Aug 2010, 08:41 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-80: Structure is not only a kick and chase, every team has structure, even the AB’s. You have to be able to adabt, you cant go into a test and say the high bomb will work, the world has worked us out, look at this year, the EOYT last year, I still think a good gary owen is a good idea when the oppotunity presents it. But we cant ignore the fact that we have to be able to change our game plans, the more different game plans we have the better chance he have of winning the world cup.
23 Aug 2010, 08:42 am
@RugbyRulz(RugbyRulz)-83: Agreed how is it that Juan arrives in better shape than his teammates? Lack of professionalism I suspect, D*ck Muir was never a fitness fanatic at Sharks.He made his name on Plum and Campo, lucky man but lets hope he gets booted in ’11.
Butch is not the answer, PGrant deserves a chance and if he fails then we go to Lambie and co.
Ironically the Boks have a great oppurtunity over the next two games to experiment. Wont happen though with the idiots at the wheel.
23 Aug 2010, 08:46 am
@bananas(bananas)-86: Funny you mention Campo. I remember his days back at Randwick… He made sure his kicks found touch, at times sacrificing distance to rest his forwards.
Campo made booboos as all players, but he got most things right… especially his fitness, he was second to none.
23 Aug 2010, 08:47 am
@RedLion is born again(RL)-65:
1. S14 is not test rugby
2. Even WO looks impressive at S14 level
3. FDP on his inside
23 Aug 2010, 08:48 am
give butch a run he can do any worse than morne. The boks where much better at scrum time and the tackles that were made were hard and true hope to see more of that against Oz.
boks need to up the fitness and intensity through the whole 80 and we need more luck i still cant get over just how lucky Mccaw is – the missed yellow card , the try – its like he’s immune
23 Aug 2010, 08:49 am
@RugbyRulz(RugbyRulz)-68: Where have you been all my life? EXACTLY!!!!
23 Aug 2010, 08:50 am
@boktillzero(boktillzero)-89: Dunno about a yellow, but definitely a penalty. If the Boks had been repetitively attacking the line, the ABs flirting with numerous offside… then a yellow, it was not the case.
23 Aug 2010, 08:52 am
Ridiculous article.
23 Aug 2010, 08:52 am
@Couchcoach(GI POT)-90: Ahhh, I have the rugby tragic syndrome. My father, brother, husband and both sons are all rugby men. My husband coached minis up to colts for many years. Safe to say one learns a little whilst strapping lads and applying a little antiseptic here and there
23 Aug 2010, 08:57 am
@RugbyRulz(RugbyRulz)-91:
yeh whether it deserved a penalty or yellow card is debatable but i think the boks were one pass away from a try and he killed that effectively though illegally – cynical is the word. remember bakkies and bj but kudos to him he seems to be able to get away with it.
23 Aug 2010, 08:57 am
Bulls did not play kick n chase, Pieter Roussouw prefers running possession style game to a kick and hail Mary game of ping pong. Who is playing best rugby currently in CC? Yup you guessed it – Sharks, way better than Bulls or WP or FS, and why, because they coached by a Kiwi, thats why, somebody who understands retention of possession in modern game is king, and playing off -load continuity rugby like AB’s do is the winning game plan, not skop en bid rugby or biff bash crash try muscle through the opposition, but let the ball through hands into space provided by running do the work of stretching the oppo.
Why we lose Saturday, because we tackled twice as much as them and we eventually beat ourselves sat. The one time Steyn had confidense to take ball forward without kicking we scored a try, then we started kicking again. Aplon kicked to Jane, Woodcick scored at other end. Steyn and Hougard kept giving away possession we kept tackling eventually Steyn kicks out on full, McCaw scores in corner.
Idiots can’t see – stop the dead beat kicking and we win. Kick and you lose, simple equation, learn it or don’t, thats the simple deduction facing saffa idiotic robotic rugby kenners right now.
And Gunther you are a twat @ss idiot schmuck palooka of the absolute dumbest kind, you don’t know rugby from squat, you a blind bat follower without no savvy that should take up knitting instead, an idiot in other words, a fool without a clue, along with a whole host of other saffa Blue Bulls delinquents that can’t see sh’t for fairy tales.
23 Aug 2010, 08:59 am
Juan Smith was absolutely outstanding. He shadowed McCaw all the way and had his number the whole afternoon. He tackled the AB’s backwards in tandem with Schalk. This negated our need for a fetcher.
Why did PDV replace him? I said to the guys with whom I was watching that it was a huge mistake. Not only did PDV remove him, he removed Hougaard, our best cover defender as well. Are these guys watching the same game as I watch?
I called it during the game – the AB’s are going to score now because of these subs. They did, twice – and McCaw scored because his shadow was no longer there.
23 Aug 2010, 09:00 am
Steyn Lost you the test more than Smit did – he threw the flat ball to De Villiers who had defenders all over him then failed to do any effective blowout – costing the turnover. If that is all the vision your first five eigth has and can not turn it back inside or find a forward or run it back into his own traffic, then he deserves as much blame if not more for losing the test. Wrong option, poor pass, no blowout – Sh*t Steyns
23 Aug 2010, 09:01 am
Was at the game and thought the refs had a bad game again first for me was to hear the crowd chant “ref u suck”. Thought our loose trio was much more balanced and therfore more successful.
We had the game in the bag but our fitness let us down. Was in line with the forward pass for the second try it was pathetic and the touchie was right in line with it. I thought JS put in some big hits and played really well but should have been subbed at least with ten to go. Also thought Juan was immense.
One final comment I prefer to watch rugby at Ellis Park and Loftus then the FNB it just does not have the atmosphere.
23 Aug 2010, 09:03 am
I’m not going to be negative this morning. I’m going to say well done to both teams for giving us a spectacle test match. Edge of your seat stuff.
Congrats to the All Blacks on a great trinations tournament. Deserved winners!
Isreal Dagg…..I luv ya!
23 Aug 2010, 09:03 am
I have a question about McCaw’s try, cos I was confused at what Veldsman said////I though I heard him say that it was inconclusive that McCaw’s foot was in touch…but I thought if it was inconclusive, you didn’t give a try?
23 Aug 2010, 09:03 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-95: Great Post, that is the right attitude – having said that there is a place for tactical kicking and the All Blacks Struggles to field some of the high kicks but when you are not accurate with your punt it is very very dangerous,as you say much safer to keep ball in hand,
23 Aug 2010, 09:04 am
‘can’t see sh’t for fairy tales’
You are one funny oke skop.
23 Aug 2010, 09:05 am
@Hondo(Hondo)-19: Merit selected players ? Like who WO ? you Pathetic , racist Doos , get a farkin life , Why is Habana now a quota ? De Joughn is the best we have after Fourie at 13 and probably the second best if not the best number 12 as well in teh country !!!
Its people like u that gives us proud SA Boks supporters bad names , You make me ashame to even wanna supoprt the Boks if that is what a Bok suportter is seen as by the rest of teh world , farken racist idiot. Piss off.
On a more calmer note Steyn was not the problem , we played well until the 60th odd minute and then one could sense that we starting ti lose grip , having said that if Habs did not shoot out of line (again) and Smit made the tackle then the game would have been over for the ABS. Fact is even when Habs shot out that try and in by millimeters , so close it was.
Still not good enough though , we should never celebrate a good loss , especially in front of 90000 Bok fans.
Lastly Schalk Burger is Koning , how can people (read Tac) still call for his head ? He has consistently been SA top flank since the beginning of the year
23 Aug 2010, 09:05 am
@Couchcoach(GI POT)-96: I couldn;t believe it, they subbed the 2 best players? Seems to be a habit with our ‘coaches’…though to be fair, Hougaard looked like he was beginning to cramp and I guess you don;t want to take chances with tearing a hammie etc
23 Aug 2010, 09:06 am
@NZMaori(NZMaori)-101: ABs kicked quite a bit too. Used the chip over the rush defense and grubber through the line too. Clever stuff that kept the Bok guessing.
23 Aug 2010, 09:06 am
@Airwell(Airwell)-98: It was a mile forward!
23 Aug 2010, 09:08 am
Ref missed a massive forward pass …. no clear effidence on mccaw’s try ..
Player ratings :
Aplon 6 /10
habana 1/10 – shocking year! shocking game – earl rose II
JDV 6/10
De Jongh 7/10
JPP 6/10
Steyn 5/10
Hougaard 8/10 – brilliant!!! .. january is hond k@k – Soweto boo’ed january when he came on .. made all the haasbekke quite!
Spies – 5/10
Burger 7/10
Juan Smith 9/10 – Killed mccaw
Matfield – 4/10 bad game ..missed alot of tackles
Flip 6.5/10 decent
Guthro 6/10
J Smit 3/10 1st line out = scew, 2nd he took 2 long, missed a vital tackle for final try. Like habana
Jannie – 6/10
23 Aug 2010, 09:11 am
@Atreides(Atreides)-100: “There is no evidence the foot was in touch before he grounded the ball”
Mate touch and go decision,esp off the forward pass, but i have read very few Saffas winging about this, it was very close and could have gone either way. Thankfully The All Blacks scored again to cement the victory, had we not it probably would be a very controversial issue. The evidence looked simunlateous, same time he grounded it his foot went out, but the head on view may have just had a frame a milli-second earlier (super-slow-motion) that favoured McCaw BUT you could not see if his toes were touching the doubt.
Objectivly I am happy to see the benefit of the doubt go with the attacking side – too often do we see tries disallowed beacasue the TMO doesnt have the balls to award it.
One other thing to remember – this decision and the forward pass cost you guys the tri-nations, not the World Cup
23 Aug 2010, 09:12 am
@RugbyRulz(RugbyRulz)-66: lool, i applaid some of the players for their efforts but some are just bloody stupid – kicking the ball aimlessly!
@bananas(bananas)-77: yeah right! You can try and hide behind the ‘revised law interpretations’ but i’ve got only one question for you….
when the all blacks demolished france – the same team moered the boks earlier- by 30-plus points last year on their eoyt, was it under the revised laws? Gtfoh
you must listen to wayne smith when he say the are playing the same way as last year but what has changed is that they’re are far better conditioned & have worked hard to improve their skills sets from last year!
Keo and co referred to that gameplan as ‘headless chicken rugby’. Just because you hear something being sprouted on keo too many times doesn’t mean you have to swallow it whole!
Anyone that believes the all blacks are winning because of the revised law interpretations is delusional!
We scraped through with the skin of our teeth last year in hamilton with the all blacks mounting a late come back like they showed at fnb stadium, that day we got away with it as carter’s cross-kick went out of bounds otherwise we were f*cked!
23 Aug 2010, 09:13 am
@sparticus(sparticus)-103: Burger and Smith are both brilliant, think they should both start intermittently; both are excellent blindsiders. Now when Brussow comes back into the side the only problem then is the 8 man. Spies is being heavily marked so he needs to dig deep, find a new edge or he will be replaced. Verneullen (spelling) could fill the roll, the kid looks ok.
I like my 8s learning their trade at blindside and 8, not retreading centres or wingers. The buggers play enough there naturally.
23 Aug 2010, 09:13 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-95: Hi Skop. You must understand that the style of play that you suggest demands superfit individuals who can cover the field in both attack and defense. John Smit would obviously veto this style of play because it would show up his lack of conditioning and it would immediately make the need for a more mobile hooker apparent for all to see. No room for sentiment.
Those of you who think that we nearly pulled it off with our kick chase game have to think again. The Boks were as fired up as I ever saw them – they all, with the exception of Spies and Habana, gave 110%. It was their passion that made them competitive, but you do not win games on passion alone. Further more, passion is not sustainable. You will see a far less passionate team at Loftus this coming Saturday – it is a mere fact and law of nature.
I said that we will be competive for most of the game and then our passion will pilfer out – it is the way things work.
23 Aug 2010, 09:14 am
@NZMaori(NZMaori)-108: Thanks for the reply, not whinging, I was just unclear about what the TMO said….which is why I asked?
And our TN was lost 2 weeks ago
23 Aug 2010, 09:15 am
@Couchcoach(GI POT)-111: I thought Victor was looking really slow and ponderous too…he’s never been the quickest guy but I think he’s also losing some of his edge
23 Aug 2010, 09:16 am
@Couchcoach(GI POT)-96: Finally somebody with some vision!!
Look at the subs:
CJ for Jannie. Jannie was having his best game in a bok jersey and we were dominating scrums, CJ was nowhere and our scrum lost its dominance.
Danie for Flip. Flip was playing awesome, but I guess this was a decent sub.
Flo for Smith. WTF. If Smith had stayed on he would have been MOM. I hear he was injured or something. Only reason to explain this crazy move. Spies was by far our worst loosie and should be starting from the bench anyway.
Ricky for Hougaard. Another shocker. Hougaard could have been MOM as well. When Ricky came on his pathetically slow service was a direct contribution to the all important last turn-over.
Now excuse me if I’m not seeing something, but aren’t you meant to take off your **** players and leave the ones that are playing well on? If you look at our subs, not one made a positive impact and many made negative ones. Also I am a fan of Ricky, but the guy is currently nowhere. Chilli and Ricky wouldn’t make their CC squads. You simply can’t carry guys like this. Also Spies is the Tin-man of SA rugby. He should be coming on in the 60th minute when the game is opening up. We simply can’t carry the guy for 80 minutes at the breakdown, Aplon cleans rucks better than this big pu$$y.
23 Aug 2010, 09:17 am
Skopskiet you are even dumber than I thought.
You say the bulls play running rugby under slapchips?
Then you criticise them for being limited at test level because of the senior players?
Your stupidity is breathtaking.the fact that you build houses for people scares me.
I wouldn’t even put you in charge of building a rabbit hutch.
23 Aug 2010, 09:17 am
Gunther ….your wisecracks are like elastoplast on the cancer…..
doesent work….just highlights your complete and utter lack of any rugby knowledge.
You the biggest sheep follower ever….a little baa baa white sheep.
23 Aug 2010, 09:18 am
The Return of the Butcher ?!
Talk about regressing, or, in G10-parlance “turbo reversing” !
Desperate measures indeed.
M.Steyn certainly showed far more glimpses of attcming verve for Bulls this season than he has for Boks. I would sooner blame the inept kick’n'chase ‘gameplan’ of Krusty and his cohorts than the player himself, he’s clearly under specific instructions to kick e drugging to the sh*thouse and ignore any attacking instincts.
Butchers was waning years ago and English club rugby hardly reinforces a players natural flair. Backward step, another one.
23 Aug 2010, 09:19 am
@NZMaori(NZMaori)-108:
“One other thing to remember – this decision and the forward pass cost you guys the tri-nations, not the World Cup”
still not good enough by the refs i can see this happening at the world cup and it might decide who goes to the semi’s or finals.
there is no benefit of the doubt like league , had it been a case of the grounding being inconclusive then award the try – but a case of being in or out of touch or simultaneous grounding is a definite “no try” .
having said that i have no idea what habana was doing he should have been covering that area
23 Aug 2010, 09:20 am
Atriedes
It sure was. Nearly as forward as Freddies’, in fact.
23 Aug 2010, 09:21 am
only a blind bat sheep will not be able to identify our main weaknesses currently
2
8
10
and i still feel we need to address the fetcher issue…..Pocock is waiting.
23 Aug 2010, 09:21 am
JdV was a weak link in defence and he did not creat anuthing for JdJ. He turned the ball over that lead to the AB’s try. He also missed the tackle that lead to AB’s ( Mc Caw’s ) try just before that.
23 Aug 2010, 09:22 am
2 and 8 add to the misery at the breakdown.
How good was Bissy and Beast on Sat?
Just dont move fats to loosehead in place of either beast or guthro…..pdv you do that i will puke on my bok jersey!
23 Aug 2010, 09:22 am
habana should go play club rugby .. token player!
23 Aug 2010, 09:24 am
Sometimes you have to admit when you are wrong!
I was all for John Smit and some of the older players staying on and using their experience through to the WC………after this weekend I must admit we cannot afford to do this.
John and Victor must retire ASAP ( let Victor get his 100th). We need Bismarck & Bekker to replace them now for good. Victor didn’t even compete in the lineouts, Flippie & Juan did.
As for the others……..Spies, Steyn, Habana all need to be dropped on form. Steyn offers zero on attack which is very dissapointing.
Once Brussouw is fit and ready to go him at 6, Juan 7, Schalk at 8 and Captain
Fogdog out
23 Aug 2010, 09:24 am
Crikey
Excuse the fat thumbs at 117. I conclude that texting on an iPhone absolutely sucks. That stupid caps button by the A and the Return button too just does my head in.
23 Aug 2010, 09:24 am
@grant10(grant10)-120: Hey muscot, add no.5 to that list
23 Aug 2010, 09:25 am
Grantie
I am a sheep because I say what I think?
Rather than just agreeing with you and your ****** buddy?
Speaking of wisecracks isn’t it about time you called me young lady again?
Or mentioned pompoms?
You sad old ballie…
23 Aug 2010, 09:25 am
Gunther, the Bulls do play running rugby, when their 10 man rugby gains ascendancy. This only happens when he is in his comfort zone… leading on the scoreboard. Nothing wrong with their plan, it works for them.
23 Aug 2010, 09:25 am
he = Morne
23 Aug 2010, 09:25 am
@fogdog10(fogdog10)-124: it takes guts to admit when you were wrong.
You got guts….compared to okes like Gunther.Ratel Brussow and a few other wallys….
I salute you.
23 Aug 2010, 09:25 am
@geroom_sexwater(geroom_sexwater)-123: Are you still crying ala Mrs Smit?
23 Aug 2010, 09:27 am
@Atreides(Atreides)-113: I maintain that Victor is gatvol with the unprofessional setup at the Boks. He is used to better at the Bulls. He tried his guts out in the first game of the 3N in NZ.
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-114: I get the idea that the three stooges decide beforehand who they will sub and when. They are not guided by the situation on the field. Case in point the first Lions test. What irks me is that these people do not learn. I am so livid at their incompetence.
23 Aug 2010, 09:27 am
mighty ..like i said, i enjoy watching the boks loose – the k@kker PDV’s record, the better
23 Aug 2010, 09:27 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-126: LOL
I do feel Matfield can come back strong…..of all the players he is the most overplayed…..but yes….currently he is poor….and it will be the sentimentality that keeps him there this week…..s sad SA affliction.
23 Aug 2010, 09:28 am
NZMaori @ 108
since when does a TriN table that read NZ 19 SA 0, prior to JoBurg, mean that the forward-pass “cost” the Boks the TriN ?????!!!!
23 Aug 2010, 09:29 am
@gunther(gunther)-127: sorry G
But i find you a bit of a wally….
You a follower….as are 99.9999% of the worlds population…..dont cry, its okay to be average.
23 Aug 2010, 09:29 am
Ratel
Juan Smith was clearly injured.
But I agree our substitutes and their timing was poor.
Rulz
Exactly.
How then can they suddenly be one dimensional when they play for the boks?
23 Aug 2010, 09:30 am
@gunther(gunther)-137: Oh that is easy to explain… S14 aint test level
23 Aug 2010, 09:31 am
Look at our subs compared to theirs!!
40 start of second half start of second half
42 Weepu – sub on
Cowan – sub off
43 Steyn – penalty goal 19 – 14
49 Donnelly – sub off
Whitelock – sub on
57 Dagg – sub on
Rokocoko – sub off
58 Louw – sub on
Smith – sub off
62 du Plessis – sub off
van der Linde – sub on
Steyn – penalty goal 22 – 14 Afoa – sub on
Franks – sub off
66 22 – 17 Carter – penalty goal
69 van der Merwe – sub off
Rossouw – sub on
70 Vito – sub on
Kaino – sub off
76 Hougaard – sub off
Januarie – sub on
77 22 – 22 McCaw – try
79 22 – 27 Dagg – try
80 22 – 29 Carter – conversion
80+1 end of second half
end of half end of second half
end of half
23 Aug 2010, 09:32 am
To be fair Morne NEEDS FDP to make him look good. This is nothing to be ashamed of, most 9 & 10 s are a combo. Morne struggles without FDP.
23 Aug 2010, 09:32 am
@geroom_sexwater(geroom_sexwater)-133: PDV’s record is way better than all Bok coaches excluding Kitch, but Kitch didnt play the OZ and Blacks each and every year! Kitch with the Lions was an average coach (50%). PDV will be remember for his 3-0 blackwash which no coach will ever again repeat!
23 Aug 2010, 09:33 am
Carter…. $hit this guy could function with Burgess. Need I say it, “Carter is a freak.”
23 Aug 2010, 09:34 am
@capebull(capebull)-121: What? Did you see an improvement in our defensive system from the last matches? Ascribe it to JDV, my friend. He organized the defense brilliantly. He cleaned out rucks and played pillar on many occasions – thus setting the offside lines and his communication to other players was outstanding.
How do you expect him to get JDJ into gaps when MS kicks the freaking ball away? He kicked away two balls that I can remember with an overlap on his outside when JDV was calling for the ball. The next phase, after Jean had cleaned out the ruck, MS passes the ball down the backline with only de Jongh against Nonu and Smith – where is the vision?
No, my friend, pick another scapegoat because nobody is going to convince me that JDV let the team down.
23 Aug 2010, 09:34 am
no … matfield & John will be remembered for the 3 – 0 whitewash
23 Aug 2010, 09:34 am
@grant10(grant10)-134: So who will you play at 5 this weekend, genius?
23 Aug 2010, 09:34 am
@geroom_sexwater(geroom_sexwater)-107: I thought De Jongh was more a 8.5/10 IMO. From the whistle he was putting momentum stopping tackles on both backs and forwards alike. His only missed tackle was the attempted ankle tap on Thorn which slowed him enough for the cover defence of Danie.
Burger also deserves better (a 8.5/10). Flip was also good, he passed with flying colours. In Flip & Bekker we have our next generation of good locks for after WC2011.
Habana…eish I was not pleased with him after the McCaw try. But when I calmed down I realised that it was not the first time in the match that he shot out of line… the difference was that the other times (like the momentum stopping tackle on Nonu) it worked and gave the Boks defence time to regroup and the 2 times that it did not work we had points scored against us…
when he times his run correctly, it has the desired effect of stopping the attack and preventing the overlap…
when he gets it incorrectly (like he did on Sat and during most of 2010) it creates an even bigger overlap…
the problem is that he has got it more wrong than right… but still that does not warrant a 1/10. =
23 Aug 2010, 09:35 am
I think now is the time to rest our senior players and start with a winning strategy for the world cup. Rest:
John Smit, Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, Juan Smith, Schalk Burger, Pierre Spies, Morne Steyn, Bryan Habana, Jean de Villiers.
These guys are world cup winners and their way of playing will ensure a world cup.
The All Blacks run from anywhere approach makes for good tv but is not the kind of rugby that wins world cups. Sorry! That’s a fact!
I think they should pick the following team for Saturday:
15.) Frans Steyn
14.) Gio Aplon
13.) Jacque Fourie
12.) Juan de Jongh
11.) Lwazi Mvovo
10.) Butch James
9.) Francois Hougaard
8.) Duane Vermeulen
7.) Francois Louw
6.) Danie Rossouw
5.) Victor Matfield (c)
4.) Flip van der Merwe
3.) CJ van der Linde
2.) Bismarck du Plessis
1.) Beast Mtawaria
23 Aug 2010, 09:36 am
who will be remembered for the current 4 nil reverse???
23 Aug 2010, 09:36 am
That’s ok grantie.
I find you a lightweight who changes his views according to whatever he reads in the argus.
In fact you are rugby lite.
I can’t wait to see who SAB chooses for the vocals for your advert..
ABBA?
Milli Vanilli?
23 Aug 2010, 09:37 am
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-145: Matfield…..its at Loftus….his 100th may just add the neccessary fuel in the tank and fire in the belly.
23 Aug 2010, 09:40 am
@gunther(gunther)-149: there we go again Mr Average…..hiding behind the sarcastic humour.
I have my own opinions….would love to see where i changed opinions…..care to enlighten me?
Ag…dont bother G….this is childish and i have work to do.
Enjoy your day.
outta here
23 Aug 2010, 09:41 am
Come now rules..
Either you are one dimensional or you aren’t..
Surely?
Personally I would give some younger players a go… Give the older ones some time for rest and conditioning.
Let’s find out who the alternatives are and see what sort of depth we have…
23 Aug 2010, 09:41 am
@RugbyRulz(RugbyRulz)-105: quite right, the all blacks kicked & chipped over the rush defence, the difference with what they were doing and morne’s aimless kicking is that they could see the defence ‘rushing’ and only then decided to chip! The ball never gets to carter and he just blindly moers it forward without having looked at other options like taking a gap, cut-out pass etc..
That’s the difference Rulz!.
23 Aug 2010, 09:42 am
@grant10(grant10)-150: It could also result in a tragedy with the whole Matfield clan in tears.
23 Aug 2010, 09:42 am
In their 14 match winning streak, the Blacks have beaten
1. Australia 4 times
2. South Africa 3 times
3. Wales 3 times
4. Ireland, France, England & Italy once
Also, in these 14 games they have only conceded THIRTEEN tries! While scoring 49 themselves.
In the same time period,the Boks have played 11 games and they’ve lost to:
1. NZ 3 times
2. France, Ireland and Australia once
In other words, in the same time that NZ stacked up a 14 game winning streak, wining 9 out those games against the top 5 teams (SA, Aus, Frc & Ire) in the world, SA has won ONLY 5 out of 11 games. But, even WORSE, THREE of those victories were against ITALY!
To put it another way: In our last 11 games we have conceded 22 tries and have scored ONLY 29 tries (14 of those 29 tries were against Italy).
Wake-up SARU! We’re in serious trouble!
23 Aug 2010, 09:43 am
@RugbyStudent(RugbyStudent)-147: Spot on wrt tactics, but I’d only rest the guys after the 3N, we need to win these 2 games.
@grant10(grant10)-150: O so when you said the following, you were just ranting, you didn’t even believe the idiocy that was running over the keyboard?:
“I do feel Matfield can come back strong…..of all the players he is the most overplayed…..but yes….currently he is poor….and it will be the sentimentality that keeps him there this week…..s sad SA affliction.”
Notice the this week statement.
23 Aug 2010, 09:43 am
@capebull(capebull)-121: Um no actually Habana’s forever bloody coming off his line and not trusting his teammates and exposing great big farking holes caused the try..i wish they’d coach that sh*t out of him, he keeps doing it game after game!
23 Aug 2010, 09:46 am
I think the coaching staff is to blame for this one “A” for a way.I thought with the replacement of Hougaard on scrumy the boks backline would be on fire, and once again kicking by the scrumy was at the order of the day….game plan once again?..and the commitment of one(1) bok player agains 4-5 AB’S at the breakdown?..what about BH,yes poor Brian Habana always goes for the i.n.t.e.r.c.e.p.t.i.o.n leaving the boks at the back vulnerable!…and finally why are the bok coaching staff always making replacements when it’s not necessary?
23 Aug 2010, 09:47 am
@RugbyStudent(RugbyStudent)-147: We all agree on the principal, but why play Butch at all ? Rather blood another potential no10 …
Our d*ick heads of coaching will do nothing, why ?? Because they have no idea about inovation and frankly if the senior players are running the show self preservation will keep the gang together.
23 Aug 2010, 09:56 am
Habana is too slow for an international wing. Simple as that.
I almost hope we lose to Aus (twice), else PDV and his idiot crew will stay on.
23 Aug 2010, 09:57 am
Our tactics for this game were good and is the right way for the RWC next year. Our problem was the poor tactical substitutions and the fact that we are floating quotas:
Spies
Chilliboy
Januarie
Are all being accommodated. Chilli and Ricky aren’t even 2nd choice at their provinces.
23 Aug 2010, 10:00 am
I think Aussies will catch a klap. The All Blacks are a great side currently and they are enjoying the rub of the green as well as favourable reffing. We also handed them this game to them on a platter, it was ours to lose. Poor subs, poor bench.
23 Aug 2010, 10:01 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-109: Its not only revised rules, and why would Wayne helpfully tell us the diff ABs over last year ??
I have posted several times that you can see the conditioning is not there for Boks.Why is that?
The Bulls won S14 with the same players minus FdP who we ALL know runs the team so ok its a big problem, what does PdV do ? Select a fat, non-kicking 9 who cant even get into S14 squad.
In addition Brussow the find of 09 is injured, so what does PdV do ? select another 7…
So all that is ok with you ?
The reason the boks performed so badly imo EOYT 09 was poor selections coupled with non-rotation after a very heavy and successful year.
It adds up to a weak and incompetant Coach either way you dice it. So he has a brain storm some years ago to run the ball, we all know this was D*cks idea and it failed the games we tried it. Why ? not because of the tactic being wrong but because it has to be part of a bigger picture. And this is our problem, PdV seems to lurch from one bad idea to another with NO PLAN ..with NO REPURCUSSIONS …. Geddit ??
23 Aug 2010, 10:02 am
Atriedes
and how many times is Habana in front of the kicker ? In fact, how many times are any of the Boks behind the kicker ?! This has been the same for years now.
As you say, “once is a mistake but the same mistake made again and again is……”
now what is the word Sth Africans use in this situation ?
23 Aug 2010, 10:04 am
call to drop steyn only warranted as he’s been over played and has lost form. he is no attacking genius, but he is the best option at 10 that the boks currently have. sad but true.
smit and victor also badly in need of rest. although in bismarck we have a better option at 2 and smit should be kept with the squad as a leader and a versatile bench option at best. Victor is pure class and willmake an impact next year if correctly managed.
Brussouw’s return will make a massive difference to the balance of the loose trio and no one can deny Burger and Smith are still classy players without peer in SA. Spies would be lucky to keep a spot on the bench.
as for the backs we lack a decent winger at the moment, but Aplon is the new Paulse and Steyn must be accomodated at 15.
As far as the game plan is concerned it does not matter how you play the game if you have players that fall off tackles and cant last 80 mins.
23 Aug 2010, 10:05 am
Ryan, you’re asking the coaching staff to make this no-brainer decision when they make the most ridiculous substitutions in every match. They do not have the ability to read the match and to make the right changes. Hougaard and Smith were taken off while they were the best players on the field Saturday. Hougaard disrupted Carter’s play several times while Smith added much needed grunt at ruck time. We were turned over more in the last 10 minutes than during the whole match.
I have no faith in the current Bok management and there’s no way we’ll win the WC with them in charge. They’re out of their depth. Note this is not a dig at Div alone. Muir was the reason we ran everything from our deadball line in 2008. We saw how the Lions faired this year in the Super 14. Gold is our defensive coach and we’ve let in 14 tries in the last 4 matches. Cheryl Calder is not with the backroom staff anymore. Do we even have a conditioning coach. Our fitness is terrible and the highveld is our stronghold….until Saturday.
Two people can take over and make quick changes with great results. Heyneke or Jake. There is still time.
23 Aug 2010, 10:05 am
This is the best time for out coach to give some of the youngsters and fresh legs game time. Let the guys have a break that been playing nonstop from the beginning of the year. Sure he can put a team together that can beat the Aussies.
15. Steyn
14. Gio
13. De Jong
12. De Villiers
11. JP
10. Butch
9 . hougaartd
8 . Louw
7 . Smith
6 . Burger
5 . ? because matfield is tired
4 . Flip , not bad on Saturday , need more game time
3 . Jannie
2 . Chiliboy Ralepelle
1 . Beast , steenkamp on the bench
23 Aug 2010, 10:06 am
Having thought long and hard about why SA has failed to produce a world class fly half for many years now , if you look at the primary boxes that need to be ticked for a fh, namely:
- Ability to kick out of hand and to posts
- ability to distribute well
- abilty to defend
- ability to carry ball up
- ability to make decisions under pressure
- the absolute desire to want to play the posistion
- abilty to instll a “fear” factor in the opposistion
None of the incumbents in the last few years have been able to tick all the boxes.
So the next question is who has the potential to be able to tick all or most of the boxes.
I have thought about all the candidates including Lambie amd elton Jantjies and Peter Grant and have come to the conclusion that the best youngster in fact for the job is Francois Steyn.
Yes, yes I know a lot of you are going to be saying he was tried and failed etc etc !!!
The lad at 23 is now more experienced ,has matured a bit more and right now could be a masterstoke to try him at FH again.
He certainly ticks most of the boxes, more so than the others………..I reckon the time for Francois Steyn to be tried as a FH is now !!
We know that in his heart this is where he wants to play !!!!
23 Aug 2010, 10:10 am
I wonder how the ABs would go if Mccaw was unavailable? He’s been easily their best player this year.
We all saw what happened when Carter got injured in 2007, and how poorly the Blacks did with Mccaw and Carter recovering from injuries and not playing at their best last year.
What plans does Henry have to manage these players in the buildup to next year? Is there any greater risk to the ABs winning (on home soil again) than the fitness of Mccaw and Carter?
23 Aug 2010, 10:11 am
justrugby – THe Boks could have easily won on Sat if PDV put Morne Steyn to 15 and brought Butch on at 10. Gio played his heart out and put in some big tackles however the Boks need more from a player at test level. He is not a scratch on Paulse was(similar small player), as Gio’s kicking was very poor, Paulse had a mean left boot and was able to create!!
Also i thought Hougaard played very well but his kicking was poor.
This wa a game the Boks threw away more than the ABs won. Also the ABs are playing great rugby, they are spoiling alot at the breakdown and getting away with players lieing all over the rucks. But the ABs are invincible, if Du Preez , Steyn was playing the Boks would been able to pin the ABs back at the end and hold for the win.
23 Aug 2010, 10:12 am
As far as conditioning goes, if we continue to play the kick and chase game, where the new interpretations favour the side with ball going into the tackle, then we’re always going to be found out in the latter part of the game. Being constantly required to put in tackle after tackle is going to physically and mentally exhaust any player. Sure, our gameplan, if that’s what it was, looked to have succeeded for the majority of the game, but we paid the price for it towards the end.
23 Aug 2010, 10:12 am
JUSTRUGBY – Where is he playing at Racing Metro?
23 Aug 2010, 10:17 am
grant10 – All PDV had to do for the last 10/15 was minutes was move Morne Steyn to 15 and bring on Butch at 10. Morne Steyn has played 15 before and did ok. Gio was ok but not brilliant at 15, his kicking was very very poor. So was Hougaards kicking, Hougaards ashould have ran the ball more, he was good with ball in hand.
But the Boks improved and they need to continue this momentum.
23 Aug 2010, 10:17 am
@race of tan(race of tan)-172:
We all know he is playing FB or centre…….so what, Larkham started at scrum half and centre and eventually moved into the FH posistion because he had the SKILLS……not sure I understand your point
We can try and do somethhing innovative or can stay with the tried and failed !!
23 Aug 2010, 10:19 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-168: very interesting post my man…..very interesting indeed.
23 Aug 2010, 10:21 am
@race of tan(race of tan)-173: Hougaards kicking poor? What game did you watch? Steyn at 15? I dont know why I’m replying to this rubbish!
23 Aug 2010, 10:21 am
@grant10(grant10)-175:
Just feel he is the one player that can give us a variety of options from FH !!!
23 Aug 2010, 10:23 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-168:
I’d wondered the same thing funnily enough.
any knowledge on whether his club in france has played him there much? he went over because they dangled the 10 carrot in front of him, but last i heard they were playing him at 12 and 15.
23 Aug 2010, 10:25 am
@munkiboi(munkiboi)-178:
Yip Munkiboy he’s been playing at 12 and 15, but still worth the gamble !
23 Aug 2010, 10:26 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-177: FB is his likely position. Frans does everything in slo-mo so 15 would grant him all the time in the world.
I honestly cannot see FDP up-skilling Frans for the 10 jersey. Not even FDP could make him look good.
23 Aug 2010, 10:26 am
@bananas(bananas)-163: here’s the team that played against ireland last year..point out the flawed selections that were the achilles to the boks beating ireland…
Springboks – 15 Zane Kirchner, 14 JP
Pietersen, 13 Jaque Fourie, 12 Wynand
Olivier, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Morne Steyn, 9
Fourie du Preez, 8 Danie Rossouw, 7 Schalk
Burger, 6 Heinrich Brussow, 5 Victor
Matfield, 4 Bakkies Botha, 3 BJ Botha, 2 John
Smit (c), 1 Beast Mtawarira.
Subs: 16 Bismarck du Plessis, 17 CJ van der
Linde, 18 Andries Bekker, 19 Jean Deysel, 20
Dewald Potgieter, 21 Ruan Pienaar, 22 Jean
de Villiers.
By Jon Cardinelli, in Dublin
23 Aug 2010, 10:27 am
@munkiboi(munkiboi)-169: That is what the EOY tour needs to sort out. They have a few guys blooded from the last couple of years in both positions, but no one guy stands out. I am picking/hoping Braid to go on EOY tour to become McCaws deputy. He was one of the form fetchers from the S14 and will hold his own with most others. There isn’t a Richie2 in NZ just now, but Braid is a very good and experienced player.
For Carters replacement they are banking on either getting Cruden up to speed over the next half dozen games as a very exciting new prospect to become DC2, or he will fail and they are back to some ok, but not game breaking choices. I still wonder whether they have Luke M in the back of their minds, but he has been a centre for so long now that it seems a stretch. Certainly has the talent though and may well be in the 2011 mix if he stays injury free and his form keeps improving.
23 Aug 2010, 10:29 am
“RYAN VREDE argues that Butch James must start at flyhalf at Loftus.” Is this guy for real?
“James is a must for Loftus.” Uhm yes sure he is a must for Loftus, for the bench that is.
I can agree Butch James was a good player about 10 years ago but surely he has had his time. Morne Steyn is our best flyhalf at the moment. What you people dont see is that while the world cup in new zealand it will be rainy and wet and James wont do, i would rather then choose Naas Botha. This is where Steyn will be a value to us. 2009 was his year and I dont know if James had a year or even a week. and now that he has every week a differnt no. 9 and 12 makes life a little harder for him.
Steyn needs a man like Olivier at his side. They are not for fun 3 time super 14 winners. Olivier is the best man for no. 12. He has shown this year and last year that he is the top form center. Nonu self said that Olivier is the hardest player he has faced. We need to have a Olivier in our team to cause problems in midfield by crash ball. The weekend de villiers tried a 1 crash ball against Nonu and i thought he was dead, and that led to the winning try by Dagg. Go have a look.
23 Aug 2010, 10:31 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-179:
I’d prefer to see how he goes at 15 first, before trying him at 10. Before he left, his distribution and game reading skills weren’t that great, even at 15, so let’s see what he’s learnt in France.
BTW, Goal kicking is a nice to have in a 10, but Frans wasn’t the most consistent and Larkham was never asked to. Unfortunately we don’t currently have a Mortlock or Giteau to fall back on if our 10 fails to put them over.
23 Aug 2010, 10:37 am
@RugbyRulz(RugbyRulz)-180:
Cool boet !!
Imho he certainly will be an improvement to anything we have now, will definetely provide more options, as 23 year old more experienced and mature vs the 19 year old that was tried, I think we will see a different approach by Francois to the 10 position, if he ever gets the chance !!
23 Aug 2010, 10:41 am
@bananas(bananas)-163: what you are not getting is that the all blacks have NOT changed their game plan, only their EXECUTION of last year’s game plan has improved which is the very opposite of what has happened to the Springboks!
Any type of game plan requires fit and top conditioned players to apply sustained pressure on the opposition. There’s no game plan to suit a hooker who is 20kgs overweight or a dik scrumhalf!
I have been saying all along that pdv is to blame for playing UNFIT players. Players need to be fit to retain the ball & punch holes in the opposition defence!
23 Aug 2010, 10:41 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-168:
I’m not convinced.
“We know that in his heart this is where he wants to play !!!!”
out of those you mentioned I like the two youngsters, Lambie & Jantjies, they may be a little too young to take to NZ but both can be accommodated in the greater squad even if they don’t get game time. In 2015 they will be ready.
They are both young and a little bit small physically but there is nothing small about their rugby instict.
Lambie reminds me of a young Frans Steyn when he burst into the scene and the only difference IMO is that Lambie is a team player. He has allround skills, distributes and can straighten the line when he sees a gap opening. If there is anything to criticise him with is that his kicking for poles is currently below par.
Elton is quickly growing into a good FH with allround skills, he reminds of Earl Rose without the brain explosions. He is also a good distributor and also not afraid to go for the gap. And one last point, in the two games I’ve watched him he has achieved a 100% kicking record and some of those were the most difficult kicks. If there is anything to criticise him with is that I have not seen him against the big teams playing a tight game under pressure.
Both are not shy in defence even though they sometimes come 2nd best due to size but a few sessions with Aplon & De Jongh can sort our their technique in this discipline..
23 Aug 2010, 10:42 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-185: I am glad Frans is South African. I know no Australian coach would play him at 10… he is too slow, both mentally and physically.
It is not about age, you cant coach smarts. You have it or you dont.
Frans in an Aussie line-up could possibly be considered at 15 or 13. Defensively he would be fine in either position and offensively he could be considered a crash ball runner. A little like old Mortlock. To be fair though, Morty as a 20 year old had a hell of a lot more pace.
23 Aug 2010, 10:42 am
@David(David)-184:
From a goal kicking perspective a guy that can bomb 65 meter penalties with a bit of practice should be able to nail the shorter ones ??
He needs to be given an extended run to find his feet at FH, perhaps the eoyt would be a good time to experiment !!
23 Aug 2010, 10:48 am
I wonder if he has Larkhams problem. Bernie was as blind as a bat, Lazer surgery improved his vision.
Bernie was a flyhalf that could do everything but kick goals. We always have more than one kicker, so goal kicking is not a pre-requisite for an Aussie 10.
23 Aug 2010, 10:49 am
@RugbyRulz(RugbyRulz)-188:
Don’t agree with him being to slow from an IQ or physical perspective, I think he is no slower than Morne and has the ability to be a rugby genius.
In this country we don’t seem to allow the flair players a fair chance to show their genius, one or two bad games and the heads called for !!
A Carlos spencer, Larkham or even Quade Cooper would never be tolerated in this country !! A shame really.
23 Aug 2010, 10:50 am
Transformation – That was a strong team we had that got lost to the Irish. Maybe it is a case that Boks need a bit of direction. PDV is not supplying/giving any to the players, and Bok metality needs strong leadership.
23 Aug 2010, 10:51 am
@Spieeeees(Spieeeees)-183:
“We need to have a Olivier in our team to cause problems in midfield by crash ball.”
yeah as much problems as he caused in his last 3 games… 
23 Aug 2010, 11:03 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-191:
- ability to distribute well
- ability to make decisions under pressure
A big cross next to these 2.
I mean really. Morne Steyn is the man for RW 2011. Lets back him and rest him for the EOYT, because without him, I can tell you our RWC defence is toast.
23 Aug 2010, 11:05 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-191: Yes I see where you’re coming from >>> behind the 8 ball. Having too much flair (ala Carlos) can be a killer too. We play with structure with a dash of flair. Hoping our boy Cooper grows into the roll, to date the lad is maturing nicely.
23 Aug 2010, 11:07 am
@RugbyRulz(RugbyRulz)-195: In the RWC I’d rather have a Steyn than a Spencer. The fact is Carter is awesome, but just because someone is not DC, doesn’t make them bad international flyhalves.
23 Aug 2010, 11:08 am
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-194: Yep, with Frans the ball dies in the ruck and pressure he does not do well. In time maturity could solve both ills. But at 10? Nah no chance, he doesnt have the footspeed for starters, at least Morne has a half-ar$ed step.
23 Aug 2010, 11:10 am
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-196: If I had the choice of Frans or Carlos, as a 10 for the Wallabies… damn I’d go with Carlos.
We prefer our 10′s to spark something, run at the line, drift/ghost, chip, grubber.
Carlos even at his age NOW could do all these… Frans?
23 Aug 2010, 11:21 am
@RugbyRulz(RugbyRulz)-198: I’m talking about Morne. And I’m talking RWC.
23 Aug 2010, 11:27 am
div
smit
muir
and gold
to retire
immediately
butch
to take out
citizenship
in japan
victor
to take over
captaincy
after some
rest
morne steyn
to win
the boks
the rwc
23 Aug 2010, 11:28 am
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-199: hmmm… Morne & FDP combo works, but who knows. It is currently 2010 and Morne doesnt have FDP and is looking very average. EOYT may unearth a new combo… Hougard & ???? <<<< It would be wise to try another flyhalf. Depth is a serious problem during a WCup, both Aust and NZ have suffered when Larkham and Carter were not fit.
23 Aug 2010, 11:30 am
Worth giving Butch a run. Morne cost us the game unfortunately. The penalty he kicked over the dead ball was the first time I though the ABs could win
23 Aug 2010, 11:32 am
@Bok fan(Bok fan)-202:
don’t
even
think about
it
23 Aug 2010, 11:36 am
@Bok fan(Bok fan)-202: The last 10 minutes I always thought the ABs capable of stealing it.
Thats the thing… ABs always play to the final whistle, they never give it up.
23 Aug 2010, 11:47 am
I’m all for giving Butch a start. Nothing to lose really, and we need to know where we stand, as far as options go. The best local flyhalf at the moment looks to be JLP, by a considerable margin.
Elton Jantjies for me looking the best of the rest at the moment. Wasn’t at all impressed with Lambie at 10 this weekend (although the rest of the Sharks looked great), his kicking for a start was abysmal. Some way to go yet before he is ready for higher honours. He may well be the real deal, but not yet.
23 Aug 2010, 12:00 pm
@RugbyRulz(RugbyRulz)-197: you have killed the debate
quite astute observations and points from you lady, kudos 
23 Aug 2010, 12:01 pm
JR
Good post… Elton Jantjes could be that guy.
I also used to punt steyn for 10.. But he seemed to lack that quality that all great fly halves (and batsmen and tennis players) have and that is time on the ball.
Carter has it …
Gibbs had it when he played..
23 Aug 2010, 12:09 pm
Morne Steyn is our best flyhalf – period. I cannot help but laugh at Bokfan’s suggestion that because Morne Steyn allegedly cost us the game that he should be dropped. The Boks will come back and beat the AB’s next year. Everyone should just relax and calm down.
23 Aug 2010, 12:18 pm
Ryan, I am bitterly disappointed in you. I idolized you. You are the Bulls’ reporter. You are supposed to be a cut above the rest and above reproach.
Steyn is a Loftus boytjie, a third of the team is made up of Bulls, and Matfield is playing his 100th. Why should the omission of Steyn be forced?
While we’re at it why don’t we relegate Bryan Habana to the bench? I find it amazing that people seem to want to avoid mentioning the prime culprit: Habana.
Habana tried his schoolboy antics thrice (or more), which ultimately led to the Springboks’ downfall. All of his teammate’s work was in vain, because Habana put himself before the team.
23 Aug 2010, 12:23 pm
@RugbyRulz(RugbyRulz)-204: Yup, big error, but everyone is human. Play someone else in the EOYT. Morne needs the rest. Right now we need to beat the Aussies and Morne is key to this.
23 Aug 2010, 12:29 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-209: Bench Ryan by all means. If Steyn plays 15 this weekend and JPP is fit, the Aplon can play 11. Still a bit worried about his size. Gets turned over in the tackle a bit much.
Anyway, Brian can use some “reprogramming” to get rid of his nasty “cut-inside” habit.
Morne, Spies and a few others need some reprogramming as well though…..
Standout players of the game (such as they were):
Hougaard
Smith
Burger
JPP (until the last 10 minutes)
JDJ
The rest were all well below par, BUT what was encourageing is that we almost “won ugly” this past weekend. In fact we really should have.
23 Aug 2010, 12:36 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-135:
True which proves my point even more, all the forward pass cost them was one game, not four years worth of buildup – perhaps 24 years and and early exit from the WC
We didnt deserve to win in Cardiff regardless of the refs call, thats rugby you are going to get the rub of the green in some games and not in others – we got it at Soccer City, but not in Cardiff but i guess a good team should make there own luck.
Had that senario played out in a world cup final with the forward pass being missed and the hairline decision of McCaw’s try, Nigel Owens sould not have left Soewto. Just the same if the All Blacks had lost in the same manner, we’d feel bitter and hard done by.
Instead of being a nit picking kiwi and commenting on the one incorrect thing in my post why cant you say something to do witht he point i made?
Stupid Pakeha
23 Aug 2010, 12:37 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-211:
Yeah, I don’t think JJP was a standout, he did save two tries though.
And Matfield’s influence has simply gotten lost in the woodwork. Typical, why don’t we just call for his head too? Matfield made two turnovers himself.
Would help alot if Frans was our full back I suppose, I think keep Habs there, on a stern warning. Clearly the coaches are struggling to control this team. But perhaps one couldn’t blame Habanana, since he is forced to play under Muir
23 Aug 2010, 12:41 pm
@NZMaori(NZMaori)-212: hahahahahahaha oh now you’re racist, you mentioned BP being pakeha!
“Instead of being a nit picking kiwi and
commenting on the one incorrect thing in
my post why cant you say something to do
witht he point i made?
Stupid Pakeha”
23 Aug 2010, 12:43 pm
1-BEAST
2-BISMARCK (J.SMIT-BENCH, STRICTLY FOR MOTIVATIONAL QUALITY HE BRINGS)
3-JANNIE
4-MATFIELD
5-BOTHA
6-HEINRICH BRUSSOW
7-SCHALK- (F.LOUW-BENCH)
8-R. KANKOWSKI (D.VERMUELEN)
9- F.DUPREE, “THE GENIUS” (HOUGAARD-BENCH)
10-R.PIENNAR
11- HABANA
12-J.DE VELLIERS
13-J.De Jongh( Jaque Fourie-Bench)
14- GIO APLON (THE BLACK SHARKS WING-BENCH)
15- STEYN
WITH ALL THIS ATTACKING POWER, FLAIR AND THINKING RUGBY MINDS, WE WILL BE THE FIRST COUNTRY TO EVER RETAIN THE WORLD CUP. COMMENTS?
23 Aug 2010, 12:44 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-213: I thought Matfield was fine. No complaints, but we are still not challenging on their throw in like we used to. Not to mention still losing too many of our own. Not like the old days anymore…
JPP was good for me particularly due to the fact that he hasn;t played much this year. Definately a class player.
Must say, that Mvovo looked electric on Saturday against the WP.
23 Aug 2010, 12:46 pm
NZMaori
it was your ‘closer’ and, therefore, open to comment.
besides, who says I’m a Pakeha ?
23 Aug 2010, 12:50 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-216:
Smit has half the input on throws. He missed his first throw. The man couldn’t take the pressure it seems. And that wasn’t the last of the night.
Look at Maku when he screwed our lineouts up against WP.
Sorry, I missed the Sharks-WP match. I was too busy researching the safest way to commit suicide on the interwebs.
23 Aug 2010, 12:54 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-164: cchheeeaatttinngg
23 Aug 2010, 12:54 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-217: he is a racist
haha
23 Aug 2010, 12:56 pm
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-176: I thought his kicking was pretty aimless at times…
23 Aug 2010, 12:57 pm
well now we know ryan knows fpokol about rugby
23 Aug 2010, 13:06 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-218: lol
Yes, I’m hardly blaminf Vic for that. It’s just funny that the same combo (Vic/Smit) is as innefective this year as they were dominant last year.
If you think you felt bad, imagine me thinking “well at least i can enjoy the CC game”…. and then getting a good rogering from the Sharks…
At least there’s my trusty friend John Daniels….
23 Aug 2010, 13:09 pm
The Boks on Saturday sported a backline that score one try at the Super 14 and only scored once at the Tri Nations so far, the odds this pathetic, quota selected collection will turn around are are nil.
23 Aug 2010, 13:10 pm
I seriously believe that if we harnessed all the strengths of the different types of rugby played by the different types of racial groups in South Africa, we could be better than the All Blacks year after year. Our rugby as is, is mundane and predictable, it is not entertaining even when we were winning. We need to get rid of all our prejudices!, New Zealand was only able to play that brand of rugby once the Maoris started playing alongside their white country men, it is then that they incorporated their diffrent styles to formulate their current style of rugby which is renowned world wide. IN FOOTBALL IT IS THE SAME, BRAZIL, A CLASSIC EXAMPLE. WHETEHR WE WANT TO ADMIT IT OR NOT BLACK FOLK HAVE MORE CREATIVITY AND AGILITY, SO WHY DO WE NOT WANT THIS SUCCESS FOR OUR COUNTRY. THE BLACK PEOPLE OF THE EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE HAVE BEEN PLAYING RUGBY FOR OVER A 100 YEARS, WHY DO WE INSIST ON HAVING THIS GLASS CEILING FOR ALL ASPIRING TALENTED BLACK PLAYERS WHO EXCELL. WHY ARE THEY ALWAYS RELEGATED TO BEING ON THE WING. BLACK PEOPLE COULD BE DEVELOPED MORE SO TO BE ANY OF THE LOOSE TRIO, SCRUMHALF, FLYHALF, INFACT MOST OF THE BACKLINE POSITIONS. COME ON PEOPLE, LET US PUT MORE RESOURCES IN ASSISTING DEVELOP THESE YOUNG PLAYERS. SOME HOW THERE IS AN OBSESSION IN SOUTH AFRICA ABOUT SIZE BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT IS CODE FOR RACE. RUGBY IS A GAME THAT WAS CREATED BY THE ENGLISH, TO BE ENJOYED BY ALL.
23 Aug 2010, 13:19 pm
@Koobus(Koobus)-225: de jongh, aplon are too small!
23 Aug 2010, 13:32 pm
I would also risk F. Steyn to 10 at this stage, and I agree a season in France will have mellowed and matured him. As a 19 yr old he had a very good debut at 12 but then White and Jones tried to show PdV and the world what they were missing at 10 by playing him with FdP and Gregan for Baabaas vs Aus in 08 where he systematically and single handedly screwed the entire game
The thing is as in life as in rugby everything is about timing, conditioning and mental equilibrium and composure and character strength. In 1975 I watched an outright underdog Arthur Ashe take world no.1 and Wimbledon darling Jimmy Connors out in straight sets. He simply psyched and composedly out focussed Connors right off that centre court to the tennis worlds shock and dismay.
In ’08 FdP and Butch James were all wrong for Boks progress, 19-0 and 4 from 6 losses the outcome of the bad call. Peter Grants inclusion when it should have happened would have cemented a fly half we could build an attacking platform around. But saffas cannot conceive of a non kicking flat ball running halfback pivot ala Larkham or Honiball unless they are Carel du Plessis or Nick Mallet. So we revert to type, that is big booming deep pocket flatfeet kicking 10′s.
In 2009 M. Steyn appeared to be the go to guy with the combined kicking strategy of Du Preez and Steyn with the fetching ability of Brussow to clean up on deck was the perfect foil game plan, till they worked us out, till we met France and Ireland on Eoyt and those very tactics directly cost us the victory. It was precisely Du Preez and Steyn’s ridiculous out of hand kicking that killed us off in November 09 as it did throughout 010..
Hougaard had a good game with ball in hand Saturday, his box kicks had the opposite effect. Same with Steyn, when he made an instinctive decision to tap and go from a kickable penalty position it resulted in our only try. Rest of the game he retreated back into his safety first shell and end result is 2 kicks out on full, no more tries and we playing on back foot entire second half which ultimately cost us a game we could most easily have closed out had we simply KEPT IT IN HAND.
Having analysed all that, what to do with FH connundrum now? Well I’ve been advocating for some time get M. Steyn out of 10 and possibly to 15. I reckon he got the vision and capacity to be a good last line of defence option and provide the necessary insurance of a deadeye place kicker on park.
At 10 I would have had Grant up to speed by now had he been entrusted when he should have been 2 years ago, otherwise I would certainly have persisted with Pienaar who was so severely confidence damaged through pulling him at a time when he was actually doing well, in fact far more proactively efficient than Steyn on the front foot gain line attack, except that 2 of his place kicks hit the uprights vs Bil’s so they abandoned him into the scrap heap and tried converting him to 9 which I knew was a blatant mistake.
To go back to Butch now is regressive, same as canning Pienaar was in 09, or not trusting in Grant in 08 and opting for NH encrusted dead beat Butch with non ElV compliant FdP who both lost us that comp more so than others along with poor balance at loose forward..
Bottom line is faith and consistency is name of the game. Woodward stuck through thick n thin with Wilkinson as did McQueen with Larkham and they both produced world beaters, not unlike Carel discovering Honiball and Mallet having balls to see it though even though his lack of place kicking or even out of hand kicking cost us Lions tour in 97 he still came through to be world best crash ball attacking/defensive fly half bar none.
Moral of the story pick a style and a go to candidate and stick with him. I would have picked Grant and developed my strategy around him. They didn’t, they faffed around with Butch then Frans Steyn then Pienaar and didn’t settle on any till M. Steyn saved the day at Loftus Bils 2 and usurped the crown.
Now a tough call has to be made. If its kick n chase rugby you want to continue then stick with M. Steyn. If its running front foot ball you want to adopt, I’d have to consider one of F. Steyn, P. Grant or R. Pienaar.
Who has the biggest bmt? F. Steyn without doubt. Who has best all round skills? Perhaps Pienaar. Who has guts and no compromise character that can be developed as per Larkham or Honiball before him with no kicking game to talk of? – answer P. Grant.
At this juncture for next week I think I stick with M. Steyn on account of my consistency theory and because Loftus is home to him and he’s used to the Hougaard connection.
Long term if M. Steyn cannot adapt and become the all composite pivot for all occasions I consider switching him to 15 and bring one of Frans or Pienaar or Grant in at 10, though having said that I think far too much damage and water has long gone under the bridge is the case with Pienaar and Grant, so next options open is F. Steyn or JL Potgieter. With Jantjes and/or Lambie for post 2011..
23 Aug 2010, 13:45 pm
I see Vrede “Scooped” Francois Steyn’s new haircut at training today. SA Rugby have him listed as senior staff writer. Good on you Ryan. Not the best photo, maybe you should take a good DSLR with you when you visit these sorts of things? Iphone can only go so far….
23 Aug 2010, 13:49 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-227: Good post Kickshot… No papsak today…
23 Aug 2010, 13:50 pm
Jeez Ryan,first Olivier now Steyn.At this rate they will revoke your unofficial status of Bulls Public Relations Officer at Loftus. l’d invite you to Western Province,but unfortunately we have the more than competent JC to do the arse licking
23 Aug 2010, 14:07 pm
marked improvement from the boks,ditching morne at this stage i believe is sadly not the best option because form is temporary and class permanent,carter was brilliant on the ball and terribel at kickin between the sticks and that in a tighter world cup situation would have made a lot of difference,the boks as a whole impressed and i blame th coaches in making terrible substitutions,smit for one should ave been rested from about 60minutes as he was visibly tired from half time,but due to terrible selection hooker options were limited,
changing morne or the successful combinations of 2009 will be dissastrous and get the team in more sixes and sevens,basics would ahave won the game,fitness,tackle accuracy,game plan accuracy and finishing of a team when in the lead,nevertheless marked improvement in the lineout and drives,
without j.fourie,du preez,brussow,frans steyn,bismark du plessis,bakkies botha the team is considerably weaker,and with a coachin staff that rellies on senior players for direction things had to be bleak,nevertheless if ever there is a good time to loose it would be now
23 Aug 2010, 14:22 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-186: Just read your post, agreed 100%.
AB are a class above this year, conditioning is the main issue as it all falls apart in the last 10minutes or so.
What I and we all want to see is the players FIGHTING FOR THEIR PLACE EVERY GAME…. Too much cruising going on.
Too many old faces not being rotated. Its time to put JS and Vic on the bench for alternate games. Drop Spies until he decides to man up. Bring in Biz or a dynamic 2 – Libenburg. Also a Stegmann type player and hope we can retread Shalk into an 8 or try Alberts/Vermulen.
The new rules like it or not means more running in the game now, its no surprise that the AB stepped up in the last 15mins as they knew poor subbing would help them ..
23 Aug 2010, 14:28 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-181: Good team, missing FS at 15 and Alberts at 8 … but how many minutes did the 1st XV play last year ?
I for one would treat the EOYT as a development tour as the NH teams have done to us for many seasons now.
Sadly 08 and 09 were a missed opportunity as ’10 EOYT is last chance to face NH before RWC11.
Again we are way behind ABs with regard to bench usage and improving play by using it.The tempo dictates 22 players IF needed not vomiting players onto the pitch for no F.reason..
23 Aug 2010, 14:29 pm
#15 Unbeatabull . How can it be that the Boks are unfit if we have , at the core of this team , players who were in the S14 final in which they were fit enough to play at pace.????To me it seems that some of them have played too much rugby and need a rest.
23 Aug 2010, 14:33 pm
Butch is the ball-player, he will free up Juan De Jongh etc, but SA will still need a goal-kicker in their side. Morne at 12? it’s not like JDV is indispensable in current form.
23 Aug 2010, 14:52 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-223:
Yeah, I’m anti-alcohol abuse, so it’s suicide for me.
I was going to use my CZ75 to blow my brains out, but then I’d leave a helluva mess on the floor, and my obsessive-compulsive nature couldn’t stand that (not to mention that the investigators would think that I was a slob).
*SIGH*
23 Aug 2010, 14:57 pm
Butch is not the answer to our woes.
If anything I’d like to see Butch play simply because it would mean a forced departure from the now defunct kick and chase tactic. Hopefully that would open some eyes from a strategy perspective and we could move forward from there.
In terms of place kicking, I don’t have the answer unfortunately.
23 Aug 2010, 15:26 pm
Atriedes
cheers fella. You’re 1 of the very very few who would answer that.
Great match. Altho, must say, it would be even better if the Boks ran more ball. Which kid grows up dreaming of chasing kicks ?
23 Aug 2010, 16:05 pm
After Saturdays performance its clear Morne is mentally fatigued just like on the EOYT last year. Needs a long break and hopefully he will be at his freshest for the WC
23 Aug 2010, 16:12 pm
I’m not too worried about this “new” game NZ is playing…..watch them CHOKE big time come WC!!
Remember….when they get into a situation like against France….they will have no one to Drop a 3 pointer or even to kick a 50m penalty to win….they wil try to run again….and there will be no JS missing tackles!!!!
23 Aug 2010, 16:13 pm
@Bok fan(Bok fan)-239:
Strange, th All Blacks aren’t “metally fatigued”.
Are the Boks perhaps being limited by the limited mental capacity of the coaches?
23 Aug 2010, 16:17 pm
The Difference in a WC is you get that chance only every 4 years!
They wil run again….and with the pressure…….they will fail again….and all the glory of 2010 will haunt them 4 MORE YEARS!!!!
23 Aug 2010, 16:41 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-236: That’s if the CZ works. Don’t they jam a great deal? I’m told that the gun Mickey Schultz tried (and eventually succeeded on like the 4th attempt) to kill Kebble with was a CZ…
23 Aug 2010, 16:49 pm
@Kiwisamoan(Kiwisamoan)-23: @sharky_in_clapham(sharky_in_clapham)-25:
Ruan Pienaar is the BEST we have, both at 9 & 10 IMO
But that doesn’t make his selection obvious, very much to the opposite, under the PdV regime that is
Ruan and F Styen should not get mingled with the current Boks selection system that is dictated by quota minimum 5 number, Ruan so the light but as for F Styen he might have some bench time to ponder.
23 Aug 2010, 16:50 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-241: Someone like Morne has played far too much rugby, Super 14 semis and final and most of the games leading up to the tri nations. Assistant coaches are useless so that isnt helping you right
23 Aug 2010, 16:58 pm
@bananas(bananas)-232:
Let me tell you this:
The London’s Bookies give the Boks 14 points advantage at Jo’burg, 1,700m atitude, they also give the home team a 7-10 points home advantage.
The Boks lost Saturday by 7 points, that makes a compound defeat of a Min 28 points!
Last the Boks lost at Altitude (Loftus at 1,200 not really regarded as altitude and the ABs beat the Boks there on a regular basis) was in 1992 by 3 points, Small fumbled 3m from the line at the dying moment, the Boks forward were on average 32 years old and they haven’t played a Test Rugby since 1986!!!!
And that was as far as the ABs managed at home and altitude until Saturday!
23 Aug 2010, 16:58 pm
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-203: He needs rest. Mentally fatigued. Just need to make sure hes fresh for the WC
23 Aug 2010, 17:02 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-243:
That guy looks too stupid to not have forgotten the safety on.
Anyway I’ve got trusty DA. And never gotten so much as a stoppage.
No, I’m looking into other means of escapism.
23 Aug 2010, 17:08 pm
WE NEED TO TEACH A DIFFERENT BRAND OF RUGBY AT PRIMARY AND AT HIGH SCHOOL. NO.01-15, LIKE THE ALL BLACKS SHOULD BE MOBILE, CATCH THE BALL IN WHICHEVER DIRECTION IT IS THROWN AT WHATEVER SPEED,TACKLE, PASS WHICHEVER DIRECTION, ABILITY TO THINK ON YOUR FEET CAN BE TAUGHT, SIDESTEPPING WOULD BE A BONUS IF SOME RUGBY PLAYERS WERE NOT SO RIGID and hopefully one can be taught to play with passion for a full 80 minutes. STRENGTH AND ENDURENCE CAN BE INCULCATED INTO AN INDIVIDUAL.
23 Aug 2010, 17:10 pm
@Hoops(Hoops)-242: Keep praying to the Aussies and Frogs. The only hope to avoid 4 years of utter misery.
23 Aug 2010, 17:12 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-248: My boet had a nice example of a CZ with pachmayr grips, recoil compensator. Was actually a really nice gun to shoot. We (yes, we’re that kind of family) all went “new school” some years ago, Glock all the way. Much more comfy to carry, also no stoppages, although I haven’t taken her out for a while now. These days I’m almost too scared too, given my road rage tendancies….
23 Aug 2010, 17:14 pm
AVOIDANCE RUGBY, OFF LOADING AT CONTACT, SUPPORT PLAY, DOING EVERYTHING AT PACE, RIPPING THE BALL AT TACKLE, LOOSE TRIO-678 AND 2 SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THIS WITH EASE. STEALING BALL ON THE GROUND LEGALLY OR ILLEGALLY WITHOUT GETTING PENALISED “APPLAUSE FOR HEINRICH”. WAKE UP, WAKE UP, WAKE UP COACHES IN SOUTH AFRICA! TEACH THE BOYS WHAT IS NECCESSARRY FOR US TO DOMINATE LIKE WE ARE SUPPOSE TO.
23 Aug 2010, 18:55 pm
Some more interesting muppeteers than the precious know it all, told you so’s gwanty10 and snotskiet. #251 SB; would it be accurate enough to nail the ref – shoot McCaw in the bum; that way you’d nail Paddy O’ Bumlicker as well. Same with Twatson, hit his jacksie and we’d be free of gwanty and snotty – way to go!
But please girls, MS made some good breaks and scroed for the Boks and the Bulls. What’s happened? Some poor service, some offside/quick close downs by the opposition that I think was penalised in the S14. But he needs to be equipped for his place with decent instructions and good support. I was very disappointed that Aplon didn’t get some better runs on Saturday. Otherwise MS needs training to keep his skills sharp (Calder?). Missing touch from a penalty is a harsh mistake.
But I don’t think Butch, much as I like him. Grant10 is a basher but with a bit of upskilling would be better. Jantjies and Lambie need better skilling before being thrown in – remember Gaffie. Some Aussies have done it young but not too many Saffers. A flyhalf does not have to place kick, remember Monty?
In short I think it’s all about a plan, super skilling and not panicking, swapping players by the score. Fresh players are needed, no doubt but they also need to know the set up, game strategies and moves perfectly.
Will it happen? We’ll wait and see.
23 Aug 2010, 19:03 pm
@gunther(gunther)-79:
He is a typical coward, he and that other lowlife G10.
Blame the troops when things go wrong!
23 Aug 2010, 20:11 pm
MS just needs rest. He was the flyhalf of the team which scored the most tries in the S14. He has BMT. (Remember last year?)
And important for the WC : He can drop kick. Even with the ‘new’ rules the drop kick can be decisive in the final games.
The way the AB’s are playing it’s hard to see any SA attack breaching their defence to win a match.
24 Aug 2010, 01:57 am
ONE WORD:
RUAN, adding a second, PIENAAR
24 Aug 2010, 02:14 am
How about Frans Steyn?
He has not impressed there before, but was hardly given much time to settle…
Why on earth did ruaan Pienaar leave? He would have been greta to be able to get in there now. I suppose because he has been stuffed around so much.
24 Aug 2010, 02:17 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-11: World Cups aren’t won or lost 12 months out for any of the world’s top sides, but then you already know this after the last one
24 Aug 2010, 02:18 am
@SjamBok(SjamBok)-257: Pienaar’s injured at the moment.
24 Aug 2010, 02:24 am
@SjamBok(SjamBok)-257:
F Steyn is a 12 or 15 mate. He’s been tried at 10 and is NO good.
Too slow to react, gets kicks charged down far to often…….don’t even go there!
24 Aug 2010, 07:56 am
If Butch James is the answer, what is the question?
24 Aug 2010, 09:12 am
@TruBlu(TruBlu)-261: Honiball in 1998 and Butch in 2007 World Cup. We tend to do well with a fearless defender in the 10 channel.
24 Aug 2010, 11:01 am
If Butch fails to live up to the expectations (a very big possibility), what then?
24 Aug 2010, 11:06 am
@nama1(nama1)-263: Agree Nama.
The reality is that he will not prove to be the answer, because he has one game to perform magic. Unfair on him, really.
Not in a patched-up Bok team with unsettled combinations.
As much as I am a Butch fan, and as critical as I was about Steyn in Soweto, my head says pick Steyn and stick with him.
24 Aug 2010, 11:07 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-259: Hey BigHit, thanks for the streaming link the other day
24 Aug 2010, 11:45 am
drop morne? – you guys are rtards…
its just carter-envy
24 Aug 2010, 11:58 am
They should’ve given Peter Grant a call-up to the Boks during the inbound tour with France and Italy. He was by far the 2nd best flyhalf in the S14 and is in the same mould as Butch(aggressive, can cover 10 and 12 from the bench).
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