Consistency precedes control
30 Aug 2010
JON CARDINELLI admits there were some positive signs in Saturday’s win but is worried by the ongoing absence of consistency.
At Loftus Versfeld, the Springboks recorded their first win of the Tri-Nations, beat the Wallabies by a 13-point margin and scored five tries to double their tally in this year’s tournament. But those aren’t the only stats that matter.
The Boks may have ended a four-game losing streak, but are still failing in their long-term quest for consistency. This is preventing them from controlling a Test, as recent evidence will confirm.
In their one victory, they’ve mixed incredible resolve with first-class ineptitude. Most will remember last Saturday’s game as the fixture where they rallied from 21-7 down to win 44-31; an unbelievable turn around. But break the game down into two halves, and the inconsistency is clear. In the department of defence alone, they conceded four tries in the first half, and zero in the second.
They’ve been consistently inconsistent over the last five games, having won just two of the 10 halves of rugby. The fluctuation of each scoreline also tells a story. In Auckland, they were done 20-3 in the first half and 12-9 in the second. Wellington was a bit closer with the Boks trailing 13-7 in the first half and 18-10 in the second. Brisbane was similar to Auckland, with the Boks behind 17-3 at half-time, and the final 40 also ended with the Wallabies 13-10 ahead.
The honours have been shared since the Boks returned to South Africa. They led the All Blacks 16-14 at Soccer City before throwing it away in the second half, the visitors scoring 12 of their 15 second-half points in the last three minutes. Pretoria witnessed a switch in fortunes with the Boks trailing 28-24 at the break, then turning it on to thump the Wallabies 20-3 in the second half; their best half of rugby in the competition.
Those last 40 minutes showed the accuracy and intensity that were absent for the majority of the first 40. It was the accuracy and intensity that was lacking for most of the three-match Australasian tour.
The Tri-Nations is lost, but the Boks can build on the second-half showing at Loftus. The defence was better although it must be said the Aussies’ poor handling helped keep the visitors tryless. The Bok attack also showed some neat touches and the backline combination of Francois Hougaard, Morne Steyn, Jean de Villiers and Jaque Fourie looked dangerous.
The Boks will take another ugly win in Bloemfontein to finish the competition with two wins and the Mandela Plate. Ugly is not good enough, though, if you consider the Boks won’t face a top-three team until next year’s Tri-Nations. They need to make the most of this final opportunity. They need to take control.
A consistent performance will allow them to control proceedings. It would mark a reprieve and indicate there’s some direction and purpose to the Boks, and that after a disaster of a Tri-Nations, there’s still time to set things right before the 2011 World Cup.
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635 Comments
30 Aug 2010, 05:55 am
Better dragons?!?
30 Aug 2010, 07:25 am
unrelenting DRAGONS
30 Aug 2010, 07:28 am
Let’s try and list some positives instead of the usual cutting of wrist inducing morbid writing on this site!
- Francois Hougaard, even with the mullet the boy is the real deal. Keep it up, you have a bright future!
- Welcome back Jean de Villiers! We are beginning to see some of the touches that makes him such a great player.
- Juan Smith and Schalk Burger. If there are any loose forwards that are more committed and play harder rugby than these 2, I have yet to see it. Very well played. Oh, and as for the continuos calls for Francois Louw that echoed across this site last week. I hope you saw how ordinary he was in the WP loss to the Cheetahs.
- Well done to Chilliboy. Two steals in the short time you were on the field. There is nothing wrong with the youngsters commitment and heart.
- Morne Steyn. THis is the Morne I cheered for last year. Welcome back! Now please take this Loftus form of yours all over the world.
- Ricky Januarie. Thanks for playing the bench the whole game this time. I feel this is your best position.
- Butch. You did ok in the few minutes you had on Saturday. WOuld be intersting to see you with more time on the field.
30 Aug 2010, 07:34 am
what a load off ****!!!!!
30 Aug 2010, 07:36 am
I Would also look at it this way , we are consistent slow starters in the Trinations but come back generally stronger to the 60 min mark where we run out of steam. For me it thus seems as if our concentration levels are not there in the begining and then we get a wake up call and fight back only for our tired bodies to give us. Our fightback is typical of this group of players and are testament to the experience that some of these special players have , unfortunately experience comes with time and so does age.
A big Diffs this past weekend in our fightback was Smit was replaced at the 60 min mark and we could continue with the same pace. I would like may others here feel leave hi out completely for now at least. Smit , Habana , Matfield , Schalk , Jean De Villiers , Guthroe and Morne Steyn evens.
30 Aug 2010, 07:43 am
how many intercept try’s have nz given away to S.A this year…..0. know head start for you this year,and then look at the final scores in those games last year.and you won one of those games in the last couple of mins as well.take your medicine and just deal with it.did not matter what team you put out this year it just was not going to happen!!!
30 Aug 2010, 07:48 am
Schalk eye gouged loins play last year and should have been sent off,you would have lost that series.how quickly you forget!!!!
30 Aug 2010, 07:58 am
Aish, if consistency means winning two games in a row then so be it but it was a little bit of a nothing show for showing real improvement.
30 Aug 2010, 07:58 am
come now JC this is a poor article lets get down to the burning issue right now and report on what everyone wants to know – what the heck is wrong with Habana’s eyes?
30 Aug 2010, 08:07 am
And all of a sudden Morne Steyn is world class again…….KICK, KICK and KICK
30 Aug 2010, 08:09 am
BTW, Spies plays consistently kaka
30 Aug 2010, 08:13 am
‘If you consider the Boks won’t face a top-three team until next year’s Tri-Nations.’
Don’t be surprised if Australia drop to 4th or 5th pretty soon.
30 Aug 2010, 08:15 am
Um, the Bok team isn’t full strength yet. These Keo journalists seem to forget that. FDP, Bakkies (sane) and Bissie will only improve things!
No matter how many times he stuffs up F Steyn somehow makes no. 15 his own.
30 Aug 2010, 08:21 am
CHILLIBOY
BUTCH
IN 20 MINUTES DID MORE THAN sMIT AND ms HAVE DONE IN THE 5 TESTS TO DATE…
30 Aug 2010, 08:23 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-12: I think you are right,they will slide down the rankings and if PDV does not select the right team eoy then we might also drop a spot or two
30 Aug 2010, 08:24 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-12: the other burning issue would be around Deans and his failure to ‘advance’ the criminals.
In a few weeks time the AB’s extend their match victories over the cons to a whopping 66 matches – that is a 71% win ratio over the convicts this is what Tackler calls ‘the worlds greatest rugby rivalry’
30 Aug 2010, 08:33 am
There’s one thing that’s pretty scarily consistent — leaking four tries per game.
30 Aug 2010, 08:34 am
Funny how Deans job is not up for discussion.
30 Aug 2010, 08:35 am
@grant10(grant10)-14: I disgaree, MS had his best game for the year. Butch did ok but I for one prefer MS calm on the pitch, it is unfair to expect him to have a great season like last year. Dont mind Butch subbing him but our game plan is still a kicking one. Rightly or wrongly.
Chilli did ok, we certainly did not miss JS when he went off but we should have Biz (fit) or Libenburg coming on. There asre too many political issues around Chilli for me.
We wont see it but a clear out of D*ck and Gold would sort out a lot of the issues. I get the impression D*ck sucks up to SARU for his job. Get him out of there !!
30 Aug 2010, 08:35 am
@blacklash(blacklash)-7: Eye-gouging loins? Loins with eyes in them? Was he playing against some mutants?
30 Aug 2010, 08:36 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-17: Dont you know Boks are working on the Brazilian football tactic of no defence, just score more than they do… Work in progress.
30 Aug 2010, 08:38 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-20:
Is om beter te kan sien…
30 Aug 2010, 08:39 am
Heh the aussies I would already rate around 4th or 5th in the world, remember an English team beat them at home playing running Rugby and by a decent margin.
And yet that same aussie team despite imploding mentally and losing a game froma massive lead still almost beat the Bokke at home and at altitude.
Drastic changes are needed, a game plan, structure and keeping the ball in hand rather than these idiot box kicks and aimless midfield bombs.
30 Aug 2010, 08:42 am
@Dex(Dex)-23: Read the posts, we all agree. For some reason the “brains trust” that we have in place dont see it the same way.
30 Aug 2010, 08:48 am
@bananas(bananas)-19: what political issues around chilliboy?
He came on and made a meaningful contribution, making 2 turnovers and adding zest to a struggling bok defensive effort…..same as Butch.
No politics around chilli, all i saw was a damn fine young player….
30 Aug 2010, 08:48 am
in the interests of lively debate, iafrica.com has the following player ratings from the test: Have at them boys!
15 François Steyn:
Peter de Villiers may well be right, he is well off the pace. He gave away a penalty when Habana got caught a few metres from his line and then Dean Mumm scored. There was a shocking up-’n-under and another poor kick. Landed a crucial long-range penalty late in the game.
4/10
14 JP Pietersen:
Clearly lacks in match sharpness. Got skinned on the outside in the first minute. Later produced some good chases, but had few chances on attack. Did score the match-winning try.
5/10
13 Jaque Fourie:
One of the Boks’ start performers. He won a crucial turnover penalty, produced a great step that set up Francois Steyn’s try and showed his attacking ability.
8/10
12 Jean de Villiers:
Getting better, but still well of his best. Missed the tackle – along with Matfield – for the opening try. Some great half-breaks, but his hands also let him down at times. He was full of running and his defence certainly improved.
7/10
11 Bryan Habana:
He is in desperate need of a break or a shake-up. Shocking mistake when he missed a restart and James O’Connor scored. Also poor decision making by not taking a 22 restart and then got tackled by trying to run the ball out – Dean Mumm scored.
2/10
10 Morné Steyn:
His goal-kicking was from the top shelve, including a penalty of almost 60 metres in 20th minute – succeeded with some distance to spare. There were some great tactical kicking and a great offload in the tackle for Francois Steyn’s try. But he did conceded a penalty for a high tackle.
6/10
9 François Hougaard:
Heyneke Meyer spoke of the Bok diamonds that must shone. He was the brightest of them all. Incredible service and great stepping to set up Spies’ try. His tactical kicking also adds value and there was that try-saving tackle on Adam Ashley-Cooper at a crucial stage in the second half. He also started the counter that resulted in JP Pietersen’s match-winning try.
9/10
8 Pierre Spies:
His workrate has improved and his defence was much better. His best game this year, although he is still well off the standards we have seen of him in the past.
6/10
7 Juan Smith:
Welcome back! Now the Boks realise just how much they missed him. A great angled run for the Boks’ opening try and as always he was strong on defence.
8/10
6 Schalk Burger:
He is still plenty of energy, but lacks control. However, his work on defence was immense and he always covers enormous amounts of ground.
7/10
5 Victor Matfield:
He missed tackle – along with Jean de Villiers – for Genia’s opening try. However, he made his 100th Test a memorable one – working hard on defence and made up for his earlier blunder. Also a crucial steal in the 70th minute. As we did with John Smit last week, he gets full marks for the great service over the past decade to the Boks. He may have been a 6/10 in the game, but we give him a …
10/10
4 Flip van der Merwe:
He is going to be a huge factor in the Bok game in years to come. Solid in the line-outs and strong on defence – a great line-out steal.
6/10
3 Jannie du Plessis:
He conceded an early penalty at the tackle, but then put in a solid 50 minutes. Was tested in the scrums.
6/10
2 John Smit (captain):
He is still struggling with the occasional line-out throw and while he worked hard, he looked dead on his feet in the second half. He is in need of a reconditioning programme.
5/10
1 Gurthrö Steenkamp:
Produced a strong charge for his try in 14th minute and stood strong in the scrums. He can also do with a break from the game.
6/10
Replacements:
16 Chiliboy Ralepelle (on for Smit, 60th min):
Started with a penalty at the breakdown, but worked hard and added real value.
6/10
17 CJ van der Linde (on for Du Plessis in 53rd min):
He struggled in the scrums and looked off the pace. No real impact.
4/10
18 Danie Rossouw (on for Van der Merwe, 48 min):
His physical presence saw him make an impact, but he is another player who is in need of a break.
6/10
19 Ryan Kankowski:
Not used.
20 Ricky Januarie:
Not used.
21 Butch James (on for M Steyn, 65th min):
There was a really big hit on Adam Ashley-Cooper at a crucial stage, but also failed to find touch with a couple of kicks. Mixed bag.
6/10
22 Juan de Jongh:
Not used.
30 Aug 2010, 08:52 am
I like the look of Chilliboy, why hasnt this guy been given more gametime? He looks like an extra loose forward there. Not sure how good a scrummager he is but his work around the field was great, he def deserves more time on the field
30 Aug 2010, 08:53 am
The Wobblies would be much more effective if they had a half decent pack of forwards. Pocock and Elsom are world class, but the rest!? Faainga is probably the worst international hooker I’ve seen in quite some time. They need Polota-Nau back at 2, get rid of that tub’o'lard playing tighthead and play Higgenbotham at 8.
30 Aug 2010, 08:56 am
Our best players on Saturday, in my opinion, were as follows (from best downwards):
Francois Hougaard, Juan Smith, Jacque Fourie, Jean de Villiers, Victor Matfield, Gurthro Steenkamp
Gurthro Steenkamp is really impressing me at the moment.
Pierre Spies needs to get stuck in, he was lucky to be in the right place to score his try after the offload from Hougaard (Spies was basically sauntering back from an offside position).
Chilliboy looked hungry when he came in, forced some handy turnovers. He might well be worth an extended run. Why not start him next week and give John Smith a (long overdue) rest?
30 Aug 2010, 08:56 am
@Maori_Fulla(Maori_Fulla)-27: his path to the starting xv is being blocked by Smit’s wide load and Bismarks long shadow.
30 Aug 2010, 08:56 am
If this game was played in Brisbane, the score would have been 60+ for the Wallabies
30 Aug 2010, 08:57 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-26: Not to mention all the occasions that John popped out of the scrum. He can’t handle that kind of pressure, never could.
30 Aug 2010, 08:58 am
smit a 2 ….he is nowhere…..SAME AS hABANA.
30 Aug 2010, 08:58 am
I was also impressed with Chilliboys contribution when he came on. Let him start next week.
30 Aug 2010, 09:01 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-31: if’s and buts buts and if’s … blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
more humiliation for the schackle daggers coming up this weekend.
30 Aug 2010, 09:01 am
bUTCH NEVER FAILED TO FIND TOUCH!
hE WAS NOT LOOKING FOR TOUCH….HE WAS LOOKING FOR DISTANCE….TOUCH WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN A AUSSIE THROW IN OR 22M…..
bloody journalists are clueless.
butch was superb…..both he and chilli saved that match
and hougaards tackle….
and the 2 lineouts in our 22 that juan smith and matfield won against the throw…match winning contributions….
30 Aug 2010, 09:02 am
Ag hou tog net op kerm!
30 Aug 2010, 09:02 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-26: imo too harsh on F.Steyn, JPP and Smit, too much praise for J.Fourie, other than that decent ratings.
30 Aug 2010, 09:03 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-29: Hougie schooled that over hyped Genia big time.
30 Aug 2010, 09:03 am
Is daar nou regtig nie een skrywer in die hele “Keo” fabriek wat positief is nie. As ek net negatief wil lees sal ek eerder die ” Heat ” of een of ander gemors gaan lees, nee wat “keo” kry jou mense positief ‘n slag. Ek gaan my tyd nie verder hier mors met negatiweteit nie.
30 Aug 2010, 09:08 am
Genia seems to slow his own ball down. He also takes at least three steps before passing. I think making a try every now and then, does not make up for giving slow ball all the time. Check out Weepu, Cowan and Hougaard. Fast ball all the time. Even Du Preez has been too slow in the past. Januarie is as slow as Genia.
30 Aug 2010, 09:09 am
@capebull(capebull)-40:
Moet net nie People lees nie. Volgens daardie tydskrif het Joost nou ‘n ding vir ouens en Amor ‘n ding vir vrouens…
30 Aug 2010, 09:09 am
@Craven(Craven)-3: Like.
30 Aug 2010, 09:10 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-29: No Schalk? I thought he had a great game.
30 Aug 2010, 09:12 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-44:
Yip, Schalk should be in there too.
30 Aug 2010, 09:12 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-38: I thought JPP did ok actually. Steyn too, you need to give them both some leeway as they’ve not been part of the setup all along. They definately showed glimpses of what makes them great players..enough to warrant re-selection IMO.
30 Aug 2010, 09:14 am
What about the empty seats at Loftus? The faithful of Tswane didnt pitch up for Victor’s 100th?
30 Aug 2010, 09:14 am
@grant10(grant10)-36: As you know I thought JS did well on Saturday, but it’s true Chilli and Butch did very well when they came on. I’d start Chilli and Butch this weekend, along with Gio at 11. The rest can stay as is for me….
30 Aug 2010, 09:15 am
francois hougaard’s killer step before setting up spies was a thing of beauty, the dude is hot sh*t!
30 Aug 2010, 09:17 am
I’m consistently inconsistent.
Sometimes.
30 Aug 2010, 09:18 am
Habana, your days are numbered.
There’s only so much a girl can take.
30 Aug 2010, 09:18 am
habana had the k@kkest game in Bok history – never has a Bok been so bad in a test. Habana can now be mentioned in the same sentence as Jorrie Muller, january, tinus linee & morgan newman = all hond k@k
30 Aug 2010, 09:20 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-51: more tannie how are things in the flats today?
30 Aug 2010, 09:20 am
I have never seen worse reffing than in this 3N. I can’t remember 1 game that the reffing didn’t turn games. The 1st game was maybe an exception. 2nd game Ritchie Yellow. 3rd game Pocock yellow. 4th game Woodcock yellow card. 5th red and yellow card blitz. 6th game, how many trys were forward? 7th game off your feet blown for the 1st time and also a forward pass missed?
Basically Paddy needs to grow a pair and admit that the state of reffing in the game is a disgrace.
30 Aug 2010, 09:21 am
Even Spies, the man who “looks like superman but plays like Kent Clark” has a reasonable game. Bloemfontein will be a cracker.
30 Aug 2010, 09:22 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-51:
He wasn’t the only one! Time for the change of the guard. Need to blood some really promising youngsters. JPP was very average. Frans Steyn kicked every ball to hell and gone, Spies was average and very predictable – the Boks were better when Roussouw came on and when Plod went off.
Nothing to get too excited about I would say.
30 Aug 2010, 09:25 am
@grant10(grant10)-36: Why not ? We were ahead and disrupting Oz line out ?? The most sensible plan would be to slow the game and break up dangerous Oz counter. So yes Butch should have put it in touch.
To answer on Chilli, he is ok but replacing a very avaerage Bok incumbant on current form. Is he first choice at Bulls ?, is he better than Biz or Libenburg ? We know the answer so for me he is a loitical choice. Not a bad player at all but we have better.
30 Aug 2010, 09:26 am
loitical = political
30 Aug 2010, 09:28 am
The world’s best wing moves to the Cape.
He’s now looking super poo.
We should have expected it.
Seriously, he just needs a break.
30 Aug 2010, 09:29 am
@Hougaard_pissed_on_newlands_holligans(suffer_guy)-52: hehehe when did morgan newman play for the Boks?
30 Aug 2010, 09:31 am
@bananas(bananas)-57: for how many years has hougaard been a starter at the bulls – @ 9 that is?
30 Aug 2010, 09:31 am
The roar of the crowd as the All Blacks take the field,
The opposition all thinking they should yield?,
They line up for the anthems,
The crowd sings out so very loud,
We are extremely proud.
The feeling of everyone there is quite rare,
For you see they inspire all of us with determination on their faces,
Their grit, there hunger for success,
Knowing deep down that they have to please the press,
What a hell of a lot of stress.
Their opponents internally shake in fear,
For they know of the all blacks reputation and that they will need to lift a gear,
They will need a leader with strength to steer,
Yet they quiver in fear.
For here the forwards come one by one,
They take the ball up with the force of a train,
Inflicting copious amounts of pain,
The opposition knows it’s turning into a day of rain.
The back line spread the ball wide to the wing,
The crowd roars as one and start to sing,
All Blacks, All Blacks, All Blacks,
It’s a beautiful thing.
The game ends with the opposition broken,
Heads down, beaten, they shake the hands of the All Blacks as a token of admiration,
A battle took place here today some scores settled,
For later tonight it’s a long painful flight back to their own nation.
By Craig Piercy.
30 Aug 2010, 09:34 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-60:
I seem to only recall him playing for SA U/21 and the Emerging Springboks…
30 Aug 2010, 09:35 am
transformation – he was in the training squad (erg genoeg)
30 Aug 2010, 09:37 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-61: But he’s been good enough to start for them. Squeezed into the side by talent alone. Also the player keeping him out is a bok incumbent. Probably the best scrumhalf in the world. In sharp contrast to Chilli who can’t even make the bench and is kept out by 2 hookers who aren’t incumbents. But keep the blinkers on Transie.
30 Aug 2010, 09:39 am
@Hougaard_pissed_on_newlands_holligans(suffer_guy)-64: Newlands holligans? When did he piss? Saturday against the Wallabies?
30 Aug 2010, 09:41 am
mighty yes you and old rosseneri = newlands hooligans supporting the all blacks and wanting hougaard to fail because you prefer january! = all because of colour of the oke’s skin.
30 Aug 2010, 09:42 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-63: training with the Boks doesn’t male one a Bok…
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-65: i thought heini adams was fdp’s deputy! Infact he was…
30 Aug 2010, 09:47 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-68:
Are you trying to apply logic to hese hallowed fora, Transie?
30 Aug 2010, 09:50 am
wallabies there own worst enemies…..now sitting in Durban instead of Bloem…..i dont get it….
Deans mustnt moan….he should of had these okes at altitude for 2 weeks…..not a day or 2 before each test….
30 Aug 2010, 09:50 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-69: hehehe touche…i’m just happy this morning, had a lovely weekend so i’m in good spirits…
30 Aug 2010, 09:52 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-69:
What is hallowed fora?
30 Aug 2010, 09:52 am
Where is the usual “Bok player ratings” article?
I’ve been forced to trawl through every repetitive post from Ryan, Cardinelli, Grant Ball, Rory Keohane, you name it, but no player ratings.
Strange. Just when the Bulls players put in a big performance, this website is silent on the issue of comparative individual performances.
30 Aug 2010, 09:54 am
@Hougaard_pissed_on_newlands_holligans(suffer_guy)-67:
Ag put a sock in it.
1980′s are over.
30 Aug 2010, 09:57 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-73:
Write one yourself.
30 Aug 2010, 09:57 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-73: Rory Keohane, Megan Keohane = nepotism at SA rugby. Keep it in the family to wage their anti-gauteng pro WP campaign.
30 Aug 2010, 09:59 am
worst player rating of the weekend must go to Francois Louw for conceding a penalty every ruck and to Brummer from the Bulls for missing,what…6 kicks at goal?
Dude…you’re not going to make it as a flyhalf at the bulls kicking like that. And the scrumhalf was pretty dodgy as well.
30 Aug 2010, 10:00 am
Francois Steyn: 6
Bryan Habana: 0
JP Pietersen: 6
Jacque Fourie: 6
Jean de Villiers: 6
Morne Steyn: 8
Francois Hougaard: 9
Pierre Spies: 8
Schalk Burger: 7
Juan Smith: 8
Victor Matfield: 7
Flip vd Merwe: 7
Jannie: 6
Smit: 3
Gurthro: 7
30 Aug 2010, 10:00 am
@RedLion is born again(RL)-76:
Those are the Head Monarch’s 2 and 3 year old children.
30 Aug 2010, 10:01 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-73:
Intersting comment by Matfield saying that it was great that he could play his 100th in front of “my mense” , I thought all of SA was his mense ??
Or am I reading too much into it……….I probably am !!!
30 Aug 2010, 10:02 am
Div: Habana form not a worry
2010-08-29 22:32Email | Print
Bryan Habana (Gallo Images)
Stephen Nell
Pretoria – Springbok coach Peter de Villiers has a few tough calls to make after Bryan Habana and John Smit struggled through Saturday’s Tri-Nations Test against the Wallabies at Loftus Versfeld.
While man of the match Francois Hougaard made it clear afterwards that the Boks intend crushing the Aussies in Saturday’s second Test in Bloemfontein, it will be difficult to do that if all the senior players are not performing well.
If Smit inspired his troops with some inspirational words for their comeback in the 44-31 victory, it would have been his most significant contribution as he was virtually invisible on the field.
Habana was a lot more visible, but for the wrong reasons. He conceded two tries. The first came after he dropped the ball from an Aussie kick-off and the second when he was caught in possession when he tried to run from deep inside his own 22m area.
“He missed one ball and slipped. I don’t think there is a lot to be worried about,” De Villiers said when asked about Habana’s form.
De Villiers seldom criticises the performances of his players in public. However, he probably would have thought hard about calling up Bismarck du Plessis, Gio Aplon or even Bjorn Basson.
Sport24 learned on Sunday evening that Aplon will link up with the Boks on Monday.
Frans Steyn also had an unhappy day in the No 15 jersey at Loftus, but it will be counter-productive to axe him now.
De Villiers made the point on Saturday night that some of his senior players are exhausted and that is probably the case with Smit and Habana.
Sports scientist Prof. Tim Noakes listed Smit and Habana among the players who should not have toured Europe in November last year because by then they had already played more than the recommended 1600 minutes for the season.
30 Aug 2010, 10:03 am
Habana lucky to get 0
30 Aug 2010, 10:04 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-80:
No you’re not reading too bloody much into it.
Make of it what you will, I couldn’t care less.
30 Aug 2010, 10:04 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-80: thats reading too much buddy
his home ground will always be Loftus
look how much the bulle plays improved
when last this year have we seen matfield, Spies or MS perform that positively for the green and gold?
30 Aug 2010, 10:05 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-68: Yes, because Hougaard was starting, on the wing. What is your point transie? Are you trying to say that just because Chilli is 3rd choice Bulls doesn’t mean he’s 2nd in SA or are you trying to say Hougaard shouldn’t be in the side because he wasn’t starting for the Bulls at 9? Lets see where Chilli and Hougaard play when they return to Loftus. My guess, Francois will slot in at 9 and, you guessed it, Chilli will be lucky to warm the bench when Gary returns.
30 Aug 2010, 10:06 am
More evidence that the senior players are coaching the team!
Du Preez advice lifts Hougaard
2010-08-29 22:32
Stephen Nell
Pretoria – Fourie du Preez may not be able
to play for the Springboks at present, but
still had a hand in South Africa ’s victory
over the Wallabies at Loftus Versfeld on
Saturday.
For the second Saturday in a row, the
injured Bok scrumhalf assisted Francois
Hougaard with some valuable pre-match
advice prior to the big Test. And the
youngster has shone on each occasion.
“We had a coffee prior to the game again
this week and spoke about what I should
do. Fourie has been a great help. He ’s a
great guy on and off the field,” said
Hougaard, who was named man of the
match.
The 22-year-old scrumhalf had a creative
hand in three of the Boks ’ five tries and
also pulled off a big tackle on Adam Ashley-
Cooper in the second half to prevent a try
that could have swung the match in the
Aussies ’ favour.
Hougaard’s performance even won him
praise from opposite number Will Genia.
“He has big boots to fill and is doing well,”
said the Wallaby scrumhalf.
Hougaard viewed the Test as the highlight
of his short career to date, but was still not
satisfied with the performance.
“I started with a poor kick, but my passing
and decision-making was better than last
week, ” he said.
What was his favourite moment in the
Test?
“I’d say that last break when I sent Pierre (Spies) away and JP (Pietersen) scored. I
knew then that there is not enough time
for the Wallabies to come back and score
another try, ” said Hougaard.
“The team is right at the top of my list of
highlights. It was very special and I never
thought I ’d be named man of the match. It’s
pretty special to be the man of the match,
especially at Loftus Versfeld and in Victor
Matfield ’s 100th Test.”
Hougaard said the key was to stay calm
after the Wallabies had touched down
twice inside the first five minutes. The Boks
had also decided to make Saturday ’s Test a
new beginning after four straight losses.
“Our view was that ‘what happened is in
the past’ and we are looking forward. It
was important to kick it off on a positive
note. It is a big confidence-booster. ”
30 Aug 2010, 10:07 am
@Papoose(papaown)-81:
Ok, I’ll say it again:
A GOOD rugby player is a TEAM player.
I wonder what that makes Bryan Habana, since he absolutely and brazenly puts himself ahead of the team by being so blatantly desparate to score just one more try to best Joost’s record, that he is willing to give away as many tries against South Africa as it takes.
He’s been so ineffective because the other teams can do analysis. And it’s easy to see that Habana is trying his best to get the intercepts at all costs.
I wonder how popular he is amongst his teammates?
30 Aug 2010, 10:07 am
Spies did Absolutely f-all except greeting his father!
30 Aug 2010, 10:07 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-73:
What’s your rating for the Bulls players performances on Saturday?
I’ll rate them as follow.
Gurthro: 7
Matfield: 10
Flip: 7
Spies: 9 ( He scored a try, remember)
Morne: 8
Hougaard: 9
PS: Just kidding
30 Aug 2010, 10:07 am
mmm 1980′s …. ood old days with legends like Danie Gerber, Naas Botha, Uli etc etc …
30 Aug 2010, 10:08 am
would have given pierre a 7 and devilliers a 7 as well.
30 Aug 2010, 10:13 am
pretty good to see the lineout working like it is supposed too by SA standards again.
that as well as the scrumhalf/flyhalf combo having a better outing are the plusses in my opinion. Hougaards passing was much better bringing the flyhalf into the game.
still too many forwards too often blocking that channel for us when we want quick ball moving wide.
30 Aug 2010, 10:15 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-92:
You can credit Victor for the lineout dominance – even if he wasn’t the one doing the jumping in each case.
First half – study the opposition.
Second half – steal every second line out from them!
30 Aug 2010, 10:17 am
@Hougaard_pissed_on_newlands_holligans(suffer_guy)-90:
Some of these legends lost a test against a raap and skraap spannetjies from South America.
Remember?
30 Aug 2010, 10:17 am
Please visit my blog guys! www(dot)rwrugbyblog(dot)blogspot(dot)com
30 Aug 2010, 10:18 am
@Hougaard_pissed_on_newlands_holligans(suffer_guy)-90: Forget that rubbish that youve just mentioned…..Guys like Kabalie and Faiek Davids, Irvin October, A. Coetzee are the 1′s who will be remember!
30 Aug 2010, 10:18 am
@nama1(nama1)-89:
Spies just happened to be at the right place at the right time.
30 Aug 2010, 10:19 am
imagine a ray mordt or a carel dup must play against habana .. arme habana
30 Aug 2010, 10:19 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-78: You’re being kind to Frans Steyn and unkind to Jacque Fourie. 4 and 8 respectively I’d say.
30 Aug 2010, 10:20 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-91:
Pierre’s try didn’t add too much to my rating.
His drive over the tryline when he DIDN’t score was actually more impressive, as was his general ball carrying from the base of the scrum and in open play.
30 Aug 2010, 10:20 am
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-85: i’m saying hougaard got into the bok team not on the strength of his performance at scrumhalf! There are many scrumhalfs in the country who are first-choice at other unions and have been with the emerging boks who didn’t get selected. He was 3rd choice at the bulls.FACT.
He is uber talented.FACT.
He hasn’t played scrumhalf on a consistent basis for 2 years.FACT
i hope that is clear enough
30 Aug 2010, 10:21 am
@Hougaard_pissed_on_newlands_holligans(suffer_guy)-98: I think they’re to old.
30 Aug 2010, 10:22 am
mighty … A Coetzee couldn’t get EP game LOL .. and Irvin was k@k … you trying to stir my friend … i’m not taking the bait
30 Aug 2010, 10:22 am
Only players who deserved a rating of 7 or more were:
Gurthrö – 7/10
Juan – 8/10
Vic – 7/10
Hougaard – 8/10
Fourie – 7/10
30 Aug 2010, 10:22 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-99:
They aren’t Bulls!
30 Aug 2010, 10:22 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-101:
So, are you glad that he was picked for the Boks, despite not playing scrumhalf, or are you unhappy about it?
Which is it?
30 Aug 2010, 10:23 am
@katman(katman)-104:
Morne Steyn was the 2nd best player on the park.
30 Aug 2010, 10:23 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-78: spies 8? you’re joking. right.
maybe if the game was played from touchline to touchline. he makes about 20 meters laterally every time he touches the ball.
30 Aug 2010, 10:24 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-88: Give us a summary of how Hougaard performed…..
30 Aug 2010, 10:25 am
@the peanut gallery(peanut)-108:
Scored 1 try.
Powered over the line from the back of the scrum only to be held up.
Instrumental in Pietersen’s last try.
Carried the ball up strongly from the base of the scrum on numerous occassions.
Even stole some balls from the ground.
All round good performance.
But you’re entitled to your opinion.
30 Aug 2010, 10:26 am
i remember in 1992, the first rugby trading cards came out, there were cards of Irvin, Tinus Linee & Jerome Paarwater & Quintin Daniels (i think Quentin almost went to jail for stealing money) …
30 Aug 2010, 10:26 am
@the peanut gallery(peanut)-108: Spies had a much better game. He committed more at the breakdown, got over the advantage line beautifully! I think we’re expecting too much of him. No no8m would have had a better game. IMO
30 Aug 2010, 10:26 am
Hougaard is by no means the finished product, but there are very few I would pick ahead of him for the Boks.
Actually, at the moment none.
I have seen what the best is others who are mentioned here often have to offer and although none of them would do the Bok jersey a disservice, I don’t think they bring or could bring more to the team than Francois.
I don’t think he had such a great test on Saturday but he does special things at times which is what currently sets him apart for me.
30 Aug 2010, 10:27 am
Hougaard got in on the strength of his mullet.
30 Aug 2010, 10:28 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-107: Perhaps we could organise a collection here for a new TV for you.
30 Aug 2010, 10:28 am
@Hougaard_pissed_on_newlands_holligans(suffer_guy)-111:
Can’t trust these coloureds.
30 Aug 2010, 10:29 am
I think Morne steyn’s value will only be highlited when we have a flyhalf like Cooper who can’t kick for ****.
by the way, I ‘m not sure Cooper will last at 10 for the Ozzies. He looks, at the moment, very much the flash in the pan sort of player.
30 Aug 2010, 10:30 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-100: why do you think pierre is always running sideways from the back of a scrum or a ruck…for a guy that goes through walls i expect him to be quite direct but all i see is him crabbing?
30 Aug 2010, 10:30 am
@katman(katman)-115:
Wena.
I need a new TV.
30 Aug 2010, 10:30 am
@nama1(nama1)-94:
Loose-head Prop: Ockie Oosthuizen Tvl
Hooker: Willie Kahts N-Tvl
Tight-head Prop: Hempies du Toit WP
Lock: Theuns Stofberg N-Tvl
Lock: Louis Moolman N-Tvl
Flank: Burger Geldenhuys N-Tvl
Flank: Rob Louw WP
Eighthman (C): Wynand Claassen Natal
Scrumhalf: Divan Serfontein WP
Flyhalf: Naas Botha N-Tvl
Left Wing: Carel du Plessis WP
Inside Centre: Danie Gerber
Outside Centre: Willie du Plessis WP
Right Wing: Ray Mordt Tvl
Full Back: Johan Heunis N-Tvl
All legends of the 80′s. They lost against the Jaquars 21-12.
In 1989 the legends of the 80′s struggled to beat a saamgeflanste world invitational team in two tests.
Stop romanticising the 80′s.
30 Aug 2010, 10:31 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-113:
I guess you’re moving as fast as you can. Kind of like an oil tanker requiring 10 miles of open water to turn around.
I refer of course to your strong resistance to the idea of picking Hougaard with the little scrumhalf experience he had at the Bulls.
You’re on the spot most of the time, Pissant, but you can’t be right EVERY time.
In this case, you were wrong. But just like with the PDivvy situation, you are always willing to change your mind, when the proof is undeniable. Although, you seem to do so in incremental steps, rather than doing a 180 turnaround – which in Hougaard’s case might be more appropriate.
30 Aug 2010, 10:32 am
@Hougaard_pissed_on_newlands_holligans(suffer_guy)-111:
Boet.
Please go change your nic from “holligans” to “hooligans”
30 Aug 2010, 10:33 am
@katman(katman)-115: Then you can go to him to watch the game, cos clearly you didn’t!
30 Aug 2010, 10:33 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-113:
I’d 2nd that, he is one of those “special” players. Think back to superrugby when he was on the wing and the ease at which he “skins” defenders. The try in the final was a classic.
30 Aug 2010, 10:34 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-109: The prince was OK…..Already better than that overhyped, senior, selector and coaching FdP
30 Aug 2010, 10:34 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-101: “He was 3rd choice at the bulls.FACT.” That’s pretty debatable. If FdP had been injured, we may well have seen Hougaard starting at 9. He started at wing and was the best wing in the country on S14 form.
30 Aug 2010, 10:34 am
no prawn, “hol” is more fitting for those haasbekke
30 Aug 2010, 10:34 am
@rugbywriter(rugbywriter)-95:
Nice of you to tackle the most pressing issues first.
You will get stick seeing as you write that Gerhard vd Heever is in your opinion the best 14 in SA.
Why dont you write the whole team? and backup team?
It isn’t practical, but it’s fun.
30 Aug 2010, 10:34 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-122:
30 Aug 2010, 10:35 am
The first 20 minutes was chaos, but the boys settled well. Some decent BMT to come back from 21-7 down, face it, we were on the ropes waiting to receive the knock-out!
A number of out top players are under presure, but instead of dropping them, I am of the opinion that they need rest. Smit, Steenkamp, Matfield, Spies, Fourie and Habana must be rested for the rest of the year. Jannie du Plessis, Schalla, Juan Smith Jean de Villiers and “dom Frans” need game time. de Villiers & Steyn has clearly lost their sharpness in europe. Another good reason for SA not to pull out of SANZAR.
30 Aug 2010, 10:35 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-110: Spies is no international no8. His speciality is always arriving just too late to make the tackle. Saturday’s game should have suited his play but made no real impact. He doesn’t have the heart and that’s something one can’t be tought.
30 Aug 2010, 10:35 am
Rugby Writer’s blog:
“Also, I’d like to prove with statistics that Gerhard van den Heever is a far better attacker then JP. Pietersen. Firstly, Gerhard van den Heever holds the South African Under 18 110m Hurdles record (13.8 seconds). So obviously he is much quicker then JP. Pietersen who isn’t specially quick anyway. But anyway, now for the statistics. JP. Pietersen’s attack in the 2010 Super 14 was nowhere near Gerhard’s. In 10 games, JP. Pietersen made 37 ball caries and an absolutely pathetic 4 line-breaks (11%). Gerhard van den Heever played 14 games, made 52 ball carries and 11 line-breaks (21%). And something to take into account, JPP’s line-break percentage is flattering as there were in fact two games in which he had NO BALL CARRIES! Absolutely pathetic for someone who is supposed to be the best right wing in the country.
Here are my rankings for South African wings:
11 (1) Francois Hougaard
11 (2) Bjorn Basson
11 (3) Bryan Habana
14 (1) Gerhard van den Heever
14 (2) Gio Aplon
14 (3) Lionel Mapoe”
30 Aug 2010, 10:37 am
does anyone know where Basson will end up next season?
or even the cheetahs winger who is awol
30 Aug 2010, 10:37 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-106: i’m ecstatic Tac, he plays with passion, has a killer step, has wheels and isn’t lazy…
All i was saying is that chilli might not be 1st choice @ the Bulls for whatever reason but everytime he has stepped in for the Springboks he has given it a bash and showed he is a good player eg against france @ newlands, same with francois not being first or 2nd choice scrummie @ the bulls but he got picked ahead of rory kockett, jano vermaak, sarel pretorius who were playing regularly in the s14 for their teams. But i don’t hear any outcry about that!
30 Aug 2010, 10:37 am
@Two Eyed(Two Eyed)-131:
Thanks for your contribution. I will consider it carefully and incorporate it into my point of view where applicable.
30 Aug 2010, 10:38 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-97:
I was kidding with that rating.
Was trying to pre-empt Tacs ratings. I wasn’t too far of as you can see from his ratings of the Bulls players.
30 Aug 2010, 10:38 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-134:
Oh, so you guys were debating Chilliboy. Sorry, I missed that part.
30 Aug 2010, 10:38 am
Why all the panic?!
In my opinion, these are 3 of the main reasons that we dont have too much to worry about:-
1. Certain players really need, and will get, rest.
2. Players will be put on tailored conditioning programmes.
3. Four world class players in Bizmark, Bakkies, Heinrich and Fourie will be back.
Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if a defense coach is brought in for a while at some stage in the next 12 months.
Besides this, I have a funny feeling PDV will ask Jake to help out in some way or form as well.
30 Aug 2010, 10:39 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-110: as you are to yours.
the problem is your opinion is tainted by blue tinted corneas.
30 Aug 2010, 10:39 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-123: Oh come on. Are you rating him on the strength of his conversions and penalties? Because Braam van Straaten and Louis Koen used to do the same. A modern flyhalf needs a few more tricks to be considered great. Don’t get me wrong – I like Morne Steyn. I think he’s the best flyhalf in the country. But was solid and dependable, but did nothing spectacular on Saturday. He gets a 6/10 from me.
30 Aug 2010, 10:39 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-121: Having shed the Blue Bulls underperformers (Zayne, WO) the rest looked great on Saturday. But then so did most of the players.
30 Aug 2010, 10:40 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-132: Your point?
30 Aug 2010, 10:40 am
@katman(katman)-140:
Pretty flashy back flip pass to put Frans Steyn away for his try, wouldn’t you say…
30 Aug 2010, 10:40 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-135: No problem Tact. If you want to know more….just ask.
30 Aug 2010, 10:41 am
if chilli moved to another union, would he be first choice?
cheetahs…adriaan straus
natal…bismark
bulls…botha
stormers…liebenburg
maybe the Lions?
30 Aug 2010, 10:42 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-143:
30 Aug 2010, 10:43 am
@katman(katman)-140: MS the best in SA at the moment shows you our lack of decent no10s. The young guns need to come thru…and VERY soon!!
30 Aug 2010, 10:44 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-112: for someone of his undoubted physical abilities, he makes very little impact with ball in hand, and virtually no impact in head-on tackles (against top-tier international teams)
30 Aug 2010, 10:44 am
1) the aussies scored tries of bok errors and couldn’t finish their attacking moves
2) the boks for once this year actually created opportunities and finished them.
* the most important stat 70+ minutes into the game there were 0 turnovers from steals at the breakdown – WHY? – because the refs interpretation did not allow players like Pocock the leeway they’ve been awarded before- ditto players cleaning out etc
Now whats bugs me about this is that the same ref has different interpretations on the same law it just depends how he feels on the day. that is utter BS !
30 Aug 2010, 10:45 am
@Two Eyed(Two Eyed)-147:
steyn’s only 25 isn’t he?
how frikken young do you want players to be?
30 Aug 2010, 10:45 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-143: You mean the hand grubber? My two year old boy does those regularly. I’m trying to correct it.
30 Aug 2010, 10:46 am
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-126: clearly heini adams doesn’t exist to you
30 Aug 2010, 10:46 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-150:
30 Aug 2010, 10:46 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-121:
“…the little scrumhalf experience he had at the Bulls.”
I take it you don’t have a problem with Hougaard serving his apprenticeship as SH with the Boks, or do you?
30 Aug 2010, 10:47 am
@katman(katman)-151:
What are you doing?
Leave that talent to grow naturally, he might someday put his full back over the try line with those skills.
30 Aug 2010, 10:48 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-133: Staal said the other day that he has a number of offers on the table, including one fom the Bulls. Bulls offer less than some of the others though, lets hope he makes an intelligent decision and not run after the money ala Habana.
30 Aug 2010, 10:50 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-152: he left to finish his career way up north so in a way he does not exist.
30 Aug 2010, 10:51 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-150: MS ‘s age is irrelevant. He is another Jannie de Beer. I’m talking about young no10s with an allround ability….you know……attacking flair, putting players outside him into gaps etc.
30 Aug 2010, 10:52 am
@katman(katman)-151:
30 Aug 2010, 10:52 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-134: You’re pathetic. Honestly comparing the 2. Hougaard got into the squad, because of his versatility, covering wing and scrummy. Then when Januarie showed that playing him into form wasn’t going to work at bok level and Ruan got injured, Francois was the obvious choice. He was released to the Bulls to get some game time at 9 and showed some class. His 1st game for the boks was a cracker and he rightfully held off Januarie (who was terrible at Soccer City).
Compare this to Chilliboy. He hardly played S14 (Hougaard was the best wing). He got released for game time and looked ordinary against the Leopards. He keeps out better hookers than him (Bismark, Gary, Adriaan and Tiaan) and like Januarie has already booked his ticket to the RWC.
30 Aug 2010, 10:53 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-156:
Om by die wereld se beste unie aan te sluit en uiteindelik `n Super Rugby medalje te wen is dit verseker werd. Ongeag of die tjekkie ietwat kleiner is as wat weepee kan opdis.
30 Aug 2010, 10:55 am
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-85: Well put. Again I say Chilli is a political selection and not based on merit.
FH has been the best player for two weeks now, understudied by Januarie, a political selection. JS has been one of the poorest understudied by Chilli. So I could go so far as to say JS is also a political selection, which has been openly and healthily debated on this site.
30 Aug 2010, 10:56 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-152: Tell me something, who was on the Bulls bench covering 9 in the final and semi? Um, nobody, cause Francois was.
30 Aug 2010, 10:57 am
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-160: Pleeaaaassseee dont tell me Januarie is going to RWC ??
30 Aug 2010, 10:58 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-161: Stem volkome saam.
30 Aug 2010, 11:00 am
@bananas(bananas)-164: Of course he is. Chilli and Januarie will be selected, because you apparently need 3 scrumhalves and hookers, but actually 3rd choice is the only way of getting them their and actually NOT relying on them to play.
30 Aug 2010, 11:01 am
@Two Eyed(Two Eyed)-158: Check the game plan our useless coaches employ by default. MS fits the bill, when we have the expertise to instill a more ball in hand style then we can go there.
For now not even the fans seem to trust the coaches let alone the players. Fix the problem not the solution first !
30 Aug 2010, 11:03 am
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-166: Faark me I really thought some balls would be shown defending our crown but the 3 stooges need to keep the bosses onside to compensate for their lack of expertise.
30 Aug 2010, 11:04 am
@bananas(bananas)-162:
What the hell is your problem with Chilli
30 Aug 2010, 11:05 am
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-160: easy with the name calling
, francois showed ‘class’ in 2 currie cup matches he played – yeah right! He was more interested in fighting and his passes were erratic, he tried to do too much in those games and often got caught up underneath rucks.!
The guy is good and so is chiliboy
30 Aug 2010, 11:05 am
Time for HMeyer and AlisterC to be made joint coaches of Boks !!
30 Aug 2010, 11:05 am
@bananas(bananas)-167: Maybe one day, just one day we will have a no10 who can fit into ANY game plan!
30 Aug 2010, 11:07 am
@bananas(bananas)-171:
Allister?
Isn’t he to melanined for you?
Besides. Province is on a losing streak.
30 Aug 2010, 11:10 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-170: Well at least he made the starting line-up for both games, which is more than I can say for chilliboy. FH played well in both games IMO (a few poor kicks) and statistically defensively he was brilliant against the Lions.
30 Aug 2010, 11:10 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-173: And long may it continue!
30 Aug 2010, 11:11 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-169: Uhm I would guess…overrated, not the second best hooker, quota??
30 Aug 2010, 11:11 am
yes, i’m afraid Rassie will have to coach the province team this week … hy’t ‘n 3 weke vakansie gehad
30 Aug 2010, 11:11 am
Did the Bulls lose this week?
30 Aug 2010, 11:12 am
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-160:
Of course it is difficult to say how a guy like Sarel would’ve performed if he was selected ahead of Hougaard. How many MOM awards did he have during the S14 again?
You see, the point is that there were other scrum halves who performed well in that position yet Hougaard got selected although he did not play at SH regularly throughout the year.
Yes, he performed well in the two tests, no doubt about that.
30 Aug 2010, 11:12 am
Bissie vs Chillie … Bissie by 100000000000000000000000000000000000000!!
30 Aug 2010, 11:13 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-173: To be continued this coming weekend
30 Aug 2010, 11:13 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-121:
I have quite taken a liking to the intensity he brings.
Experience will teach him to read the game better and control more but that comes with time.
This kid is a threat at 9 on attack, and a factor on defense. Smaller, technical things will come with time but I love how he involves himself in the game at all times.
30 Aug 2010, 11:14 am
CONFUCIUS SAY. . .
“A Lion will not betray his wife…. But a Tiger Wood”
30 Aug 2010, 11:14 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-178: No, they won 44-31.
30 Aug 2010, 11:15 am
what a weekend of helter skelter rugby…just glad pdv did not match jake the snake’s record of five defeats on the trot!
30 Aug 2010, 11:16 am
As for being right…
I am more wrong than you think!
One person I was banking on proving me right in Wynand Olivier just recently proved me wrong…
30 Aug 2010, 11:21 am
@nama1(nama1)-179: The point is, he didn’t go straight into the side. He went on 3N tour for his versatility (best wing in S14). With FdP already injured, Januarie was given the mantle, should have been Ruan, but after some dismal performances the crown was rightly handed over to Ruan. Then he gets injured. Januarie had already shown what he had to offer and it wasn’t much, so Hougaard is released and performs solidly at 9. He is already part of the squad and as such is given a chance to start at 9. He performs brilliantly and the rest is history.
Compared to Chilli. Never plays in S14. Goes straight above every other 2 (yes Bissie injured, but still).
30 Aug 2010, 11:23 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-186: He was even shown up by the Pumas on Friday night.
30 Aug 2010, 11:25 am
@nama1(nama1)-179: you are fighting a losing battle against brick-head ratel bud.i absolutely agree with you that if we had gone on form for scrummies sarel probably should have been selected.the last game hougie played as scrumhalf for the boks wasn’t memorable either.
30 Aug 2010, 11:25 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-101:
Rubbish, FH has been playing his heart out, committed, young and hungry. Of course he got to the number 9 spot on form and a great back up to FDP on the bench on his return. He will only get better.
30 Aug 2010, 11:27 am
@Two Eyed(Two Eyed)-176:
Didn’t the game turn in our favour when he came on?
30 Aug 2010, 11:32 am
habana should never wear green and gold again … pathetic performance yet again …. waar is SHADOWWWWWW
30 Aug 2010, 11:35 am
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-187:
Come on Ratel. It started last year during the EOY tour already when he was selected as reserve test SH after his abysmal performance for the midweek team at SH. So yes, I would say he went straight into the side without real prove of his ability as SH. This year’s selection was just a continuation of that selection.
Afa his performances in the two CC matches go, he did nothing in those matches to prove that he was better than Sarel, or even Kockett, yet he was selected for the Boks.
Let me say this also, it is the WAY in which he got selected (not having prove that he is the best available SH) that is a problem for me. The same problem you have with Chili’s selection even though he plays well every time he gets on the field.
30 Aug 2010, 11:37 am
Confucius say man who spell hooligan wrong
Got twottie instead of *******.
30 Aug 2010, 11:37 am
By FDP getting injured may have been a blessing. Imagine FDP getting injured in the WC and January is then given the duty? It has ironed out a potential disaster.
30 Aug 2010, 11:41 am
@Fidget(Fidget)-190:
“Of course he got to the number 9 spot on form…”
Now where did he show that form at 9?
The man is currently serving his apprenticeship at 9 with the Boks. Something that some people were dead set against. All of a sudden they are quiet about this eppie. Why?
30 Aug 2010, 11:42 am
@Hougaard_pissed_on_newlands_holligans(suffer_guy)-192:
Can’t believe what you saying. Habanna has had a tough time, lack of form but to say he must never wear green and Gold again is so pathetic. Thank goodness you not the couch bud. How quickly people forget what he has done for Sa Rugby…..
He will bounce back and go down as one of the greatest springbok wings in history.
30 Aug 2010, 11:45 am
@nama1(nama1)-193: quite right nama, people tend to forget that francois hougaard was one of the dirt-tackers who played kak last year on the eoyt along with hargreaves, raubenheimer etc. And yet again with heini adams injured in the saracens game, he was picked for the Bok team. I’m waiting for Ratel to tell me that hougaard was the BEST wing in the s14 in 2009 and was picked on the strength of his performances then!
30 Aug 2010, 11:46 am
@Hougaard_pissed_on_newlands_holligans(suffer_guy)-127:
RT must be k@k boring for you to be here. Or where you just looking for a chance to spew racist venom in front of a diffent audience. Funny isn’t it. When there is a perfect KKK site set up for you, and yet you miss having a black audience.
Is it not the same when only white people are listening your hatred? I would have thought that it would have freed you to get really nasty about people of colour who watch rugby in the western cape. Please, don’t hold back. Let’s see how really farked up you are.
Now for the rugby, which is why we are here after all, not to listen to you wet dreams about Danie Gerber.
Hougard played well and looks hungry. Certainly the better option at scrum half. He was given the challenge and he ran with it. Well done.
Was that what you were after? You could have said so without the segregation trash talk. But then again what can you expect of nic stealing RT scum.
30 Aug 2010, 11:48 am
Jeez why so down on francois hougaard?
Two great efforts and people still questioning his selection?
Just goes to show you can never have too much egg on your face!
30 Aug 2010, 11:50 am
@Hougaard_pissed_on_newlands_holligans(suffer_guy)-192: ***-boy got smoked by basso for pace the other day…enough said!
30 Aug 2010, 11:55 am
@gunther(gunther)-200: No he’s proved his value at 9. I was very skeptical, but will happily admit to being wrong.
30 Aug 2010, 11:57 am
@nama1(nama1)-193: Schalk Burger played more Bok tests before he got a S14 cap
If you good then you are good
30 Aug 2010, 11:57 am
@nama1(nama1)-196:
I do agree that Sarel on form should have been given a crack but I’m happy that FH was given the opportunity after two great CC performances, took the opportunity and did well. Good on him and he will start again on Saturday and I really hope that he will pull it off again.
30 Aug 2010, 12:00 pm
@gunther(gunther)-200:
My point too – well said.
30 Aug 2010, 12:09 pm
@gunther(gunther)-200:
You will have no problem then if Chili starts this week, has a blinder and keeps the no. 2 spot (or no. 2 reserve spot at the very least). All he needs to do is to put in a great effort, if I understand you correctly.
30 Aug 2010, 12:09 pm
@gunther(gunther)-200: i for one questioned his selection and rightly had ‘egg on my face’ and today i am ONLY saying his selection has parallels with chiliboy’s imho.
30 Aug 2010, 12:12 pm
@Fidget(Fidget)-204: lol, when the same logic i was expressing is put right in your face by nama, it stops being ‘rubbish’ and you now concede that ON FORM sarel should’ve had a crack! Hehehe
30 Aug 2010, 12:21 pm
@JL1(JL1)-203:
That was JW playing favourites, I think. Something you won’t allow PdV to do.
30 Aug 2010, 12:22 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-198: @nama1(nama1)-193: No he definitely wasn’t in 2009. I was actually against his selection after his midweek patheticness. But Guthro, Jannie and Chilli were also pathetic on tour (Grant said Jannie and Guthro should never play again). The fact is Hougaard was in the squad THIS year on the strength of his performance on the wing. With FDP injured Ricky got his chance. He sucked. Then Pienaar got his, he got injured, so PdV decided to give Hougaard an opportunity given his exceptional play at wing, praise from FdP and his reluctance to go outside of squad structures. He released him to give him gametime at 9. Now compare this story to how Chilli even came to be in the side.
30 Aug 2010, 12:28 pm
@Fidget(Fidget)-204:
Yes, he played well and may he continue to do so.
Still does not take away the manner with which he was selected in the first place.
I mean, what do guys like Sarel, Kockett, Jarno think when they see a player selected ahead of them (sounds familiar, doesn’t it
) even though said player has not play SH on a regular basis while they did, putting up MOM performances week after week.
30 Aug 2010, 12:29 pm
@nama1(nama1)-209: Very true. I just wish Pdv was a little braver.
30 Aug 2010, 12:30 pm
Oh ok I see it’s not really about hougaard at all it’s about the chillster.
Well then if the starting hooker were to be dropped injured rested then certainly chilli should start. I think it would be pointless to rush bismark back and chilli has certainly walked the walk when he has had a chance.
Transie, hopefully you won’t have to bring up that ‘saracens game’ anymore everytime hougaard’s name is mentioned…
It is interesting though that two of the biggest naysayers about hougaard and his talent are now using his performance as justification for chilli’s selection…
Oh baby baby it’s a wild world..
30 Aug 2010, 12:34 pm
@nama1(nama1)-211: Honestly, on the 21st of August 2010 would you have selected Sarel to start in Soweto over Hougaard?
30 Aug 2010, 12:34 pm
@nama1(nama1)-211: lol well said…even though we have to repeat ourselves ad nauseum here
30 Aug 2010, 12:38 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-210:
“Then Pienaar got his, he got injured, so PdV decided to give Hougaard an opportunity given his exceptional play at wing, praise from FdP and his reluctance to go outside of squad.”
And you have no problem with this? Forget for just one moment about his performances and concentrate on the selection process that got him in the team.
30 Aug 2010, 12:38 pm
@gunther(gunther)-213: goodness me, are you and tacitus still drunk from celebrating ONLY the performances of blue bulls players?! In the past couple of weeks when some of the Bulle have played kak Tac never showed his face, now quite conviniently this morning he is looking for player ratings from ryan vrede hahaha and summarily making up his own!
we got no player ratings from him last week
30 Aug 2010, 12:38 pm
@gunther(gunther)-213: Yup, they see a comparison between the two. The S14s top SA try-scorer (out of position) and a hooker who played mostly Vodacom Cup.
30 Aug 2010, 12:41 pm
@gunther(gunther)-213: that’s exactly where you’re wrong, chiliboy has his own cameo appearances backing him up! France @ newlands and last saturday…
Parallels are around selection! Ask rossoneri i’ve always made these parallels even before francois played the 2 tests
30 Aug 2010, 12:44 pm
@nama1(nama1)-216: Look, I’m not saying I agree or disagree with the selection processes. Personally I would have liked to see Vermueln and Tiann blooded against the June minnows. However I am merely suggesting that Hougaard deserved his place in the Springbok SQUAD (as a wing if nothing else and his versatility). Chilliboy did not. Once Hougaard was in the squad, with Ruan and Ricky effectively out, he was the next man in line. Compare this to Chilliboy, who made it into the squad how? Answer this question to me. Also please get Transie to tell me who was deputising for FDP in the knock-out stages of the S14 and finally would YOU have picked Sarel over Hougaard? Stop avoiding the questions.
30 Aug 2010, 12:45 pm
@JL1(JL1)-203: and Chilli IS that good
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-210:
now that the theory of 1st choice/2nd choice is blow out of the water… can you give constructive criticism of Chilli’s performance this year…
Chilli has now played a few tests…what has he done in those tests that makes you believe that he does not have the talent to be there…
30 Aug 2010, 12:45 pm
Nama
How many man of the match awards did Sarel and Jano win in the super 14?
Hougaard got the nod because he was in the squad already and therefore familiar with the moves etc.
It’s called continuity.
30 Aug 2010, 12:46 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-214:
I would’ve had him in the squad from the start of the international season after his MOM performances for the Cheetahs in the S14. So yes, on the 21 August 2010, I would selected him at SH without hesitation.
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-218:
“The S14s top SA try-scorer”
At wing, not SH. They should’ve selected him at wing then. No problem.
30 Aug 2010, 12:50 pm
I cant believe some of the comments and ratings on this site.
Spies(8)
I sometimes wonder whether he knows which way to the goalline because he runs from one touchline to the other. Poor in the collisions and a poor tackler.A few lineout ball won but then he had lifters so no big deal. My rating would be a 4.
Frans Steyn (6) Slow and ponderous and out of position and kicking out of hand pathetic so which part of his play warrants a 6.. My rating 3. Should he play on Saturday..yes so that he can pick up his game.
JPP defensively poor on sat.
Habana needs a holiday without pay.
Hougaard is a revelation @ 9 and IMO deserves to be there. Having said that allow Chilli to start and lets see he cement his place in the side ahead Botha et al. Chilli certainly showed that when he came on he can play at this level.
30 Aug 2010, 12:59 pm
Ok all you Smit haters am going to try and copy and paste something for you, Thou most of you are so predigest against him it most probably wont make a difference.
then will read rest of the thread.
30 Aug 2010, 13:00 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-225: John Smit made 19 successful tackles. He missed 2 tackles, one which was because Nonu’s boot slipped off.
Compare this to our best loose forwards. Juan Smith: Made 20, missed 1. Schalk Burger (who had a fantastic game!) Made 19 missed 3!
Smit was in fact the best forward defender after Juan Smith!
Ball Carries. Smit handled the ball 8 times. He passed it 6 times, of which 1 resulted in the creation of an opportunity. He then carried the ball twice, both times crossing the gain line and winning 5.5metres each time.
30 Aug 2010, 13:01 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-220:
You have no problem saying that you DON”T agree with the selection process when it comes to Chili.
Funny hah.
@gunther(gunther)-222:
Sarel won 2 or 3 MOM awards in the last 6/7 games of the Cheetah season. His inclusion as starting SH was the reason for the Cheetahs turn around. That and the return of Juan.
Jano probably none seeing that his team was so ****.
Bite me!!!
30 Aug 2010, 13:01 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-220: pffft, that’s easy
hougaard deputise for the Bulls in play-off stages of s14 cos heinie adams had already indicated that he was going to france and clearly made the call in the interest of continuity…it’s not ‘rock science’!!! 
30 Aug 2010, 13:02 pm
@nama1(nama1)-223: He WAS selected to the squad as a wing and 3rd choice scrummy. This is why he was there.
@gunther(gunther)-222: Exactly.
@theOracle(theOracle)-221: Well considering I’ve only see him play 182 minutes of rugby (79 against muck Italy) out of a possible 720. And given the fact that he has only played 59 minutes of 3N rugby (out of 400), I’d say I can’t really judge him at all. I can say with confidence that he shouldn’t have made the squad in the beginning of the season with regards to form. Hougaard at least deserved his place in the squad and might have started on the wing in June if not for injury.
30 Aug 2010, 13:03 pm
Transie
Are you high?
Read my post again.
I said chilli deserves a shot.
What have I got to do with tac and bluegills player ratings.
We are talking about hougaard and chilli.
And the egg on your face
30 Aug 2010, 13:03 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-228: Just wanted to tell you that Pdv has given Wynand Olivier the call up for this weekend to join the Boks in training ahead of the match against Aus.
Remember what we were talking about yesterday? Damn.
30 Aug 2010, 13:07 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-226: i stopped reading at ‘smit made 19 successful tackles when in fact Plod made 13 tackles, two of which he missed!
30 Aug 2010, 13:07 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-225: not the Heynecke Meyer interview please… that’s old news
30 Aug 2010, 13:08 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-228: So I guess if the Bulls make the CC finals they won’t pick JLP on the bench, because he has already signed with the Sharks? You play your best 22 in the knockout stages Transie.
@nama1(nama1)-227: There is no selection process when it comes to Chilli. He is simply always picked, no matter how little S14 rugby he plays. The same is true with Januarie, although at least Ricky has a lot of experience and has done the business before.
30 Aug 2010, 13:10 pm
Gunther
Hardenthefuckup!
Sorry, just wanted to say that…
30 Aug 2010, 13:11 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-226: Where do you get your stats from?
30 Aug 2010, 13:25 pm
@nama1(nama1)-227: @Transformation(Transformation)-232: I don’t want to go around in circles all day, so can you just explain to me how Chilliboy made the squad at the beginning of the season? Was it his brilliant S14 form? Was it his experience having started 1 test match before the Italy game? Was it his invaluable leadership skills? Why? Hougaard made the SQUAD because his S14 form was scintillating. Why in your opinion was Chilli there?
30 Aug 2010, 13:26 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-236: Well i got it from RT, superbul psted it and he got it i would imagine from the Heynecke Meyer interview who i would imagine know more about rugby than most of the bloogers here put together.
Butttttttt like i said PREDIGEST cant change peoples minds even when the facts are before them.
Oh and he also made 6 assists and he is not a fatty, looking rather trim, that is also how i know people are just being chitty chitty’s sake.
30 Aug 2010, 13:33 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-238: I was commenting to some of my rugger mates on Saturday when he ran onto the field that he hardly looked overweight. Looked quite fit in fact…..
30 Aug 2010, 13:36 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-239: I have thought for a while he was trimming down nicely, must say i dont understand why some people despise him so and blame him for things even when the truth/ facts are shown or pointed out to them.
30 Aug 2010, 13:43 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-229:
On what grounds was he selected as 3rd choice SH? Because he played SH at school? He sure as hell did not prove at first class level that he was the 3rd best SH in SA this year.
Again, he did well in the two tests that he started. Coincided of course with better performances by the Bok forward but still, he played well. It’s the process that got him there that gripes me. It sets a precedent. I hope that you will be as accepting if the next player, who gets into the team like this, does not carry your favour.
Let’s leave at that and hope that he will not be a one season wonder, like Morne seems to be.
I just hope that Sarel will get his chance somewhere along the line in future. Can’t wait for the battle between the two in the CC. Would be most interesting, I think.
30 Aug 2010, 13:44 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-238: You should check out ruggastats dot com. They have comprehensive stats from each game. Smit’s stats look quite different, but still not bad.
30 Aug 2010, 13:50 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-237:
Because he’s black?
Because the coach likes him? (coaches have favourites)
Because he is good?
Because he was earmarked as a future great when he was a junior?
Take your pick.
30 Aug 2010, 13:52 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-240: Yes, i’m a fan. Consitantly so too. I will admit that he’s out of form on the field, but last week was much better..
30 Aug 2010, 13:57 pm
John Smit had a good game on Sat. Got about the park and made his tackles.
Well doen Skip. And Chilli did decently when he came on too.
30 Aug 2010, 13:57 pm
@nama1(nama1)-241: Oh my word. Dude, what is the matter with you? He got chosen for the squad as one of the best WINGS in the country and he could also cover as the 3rd scrummy. They couldn’t afford to pick 3 specialist scrummies on tour. Crikey.
30 Aug 2010, 13:57 pm
@gunther(gunther)-230: now i am convince you are still drunk!
you said: ‘It is interesting though that two of the biggest naysayers about hougaard and his talent are now using his performance as justification for chilli ’s selection…
at what point did i refer to hougaard’s performance as justification for chili’s inclusion
i’m on record saying both guys shouldn’t be selected for the Boks, but both have been selected while they’re not first choice players in their prefered positions at the Blue Bulls, dronkie
30 Aug 2010, 14:01 pm
@nama1(nama1)-243: A, B and D all make sense. He is good, but he’s not better than many Hookers in SA.
Pottgieter is another one that gets opportunities on rep, but at least he plays rugby for his franchise. He’s nowhere near the quota Chilli is.
30 Aug 2010, 14:01 pm
@nama1(nama1)-243: @Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-237: Ratel will pick the 1st one, because that is the reason why he refuses to understand what you and Transie has been trying to point out to him the whole morning…
even though he won’t admit, he has nothing to criticise Chilli about with respect to his performance on the field… (he would rather say that he cannot judge him base on the minutes,play time, Chilli has had) but I bet you if Chilli was missing his lineouts, not scrumming well etc, he would notice, short time or not…
30 Aug 2010, 14:04 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-248: aahh there it is..
30 Aug 2010, 14:05 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-242: Thanks bout the info bout the states, problem is if they dont print it in an easy format like so and so made so many tackles, missed so many, passed so many and gained so many meters i most probably wont understand it.
30 Aug 2010, 14:10 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-249: Well I believe players should be chosen to represent their country, because A) They have already shown themselves to be world class already or B) They have been on excellent form in domestic competitions.
So I can excuse Januarie’s (for A) and Hougaard’s (for B) selection in the SQUAD in early season, but I can’t excuse or understand the presence of Chilliboy. Sorry if that makes me a racist pig.
30 Aug 2010, 14:15 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-248:
“He is good, but he’s not better than many Hookers in SA.”
Replace hookers with scrumhalfs. Can you unequivocally state that Hougaard is currently the best SH in the country. Only taking the current available SH’s into account.
@theOracle(theOracle)-249:
The hypocrisy is just astounding on this site, let me tell you. People will always find a reason/reasons to justify a selection if it suits them. Or criticize it if it doesn’t suit them. Pity that it always seems to be along colour lines, really.
Another example, the lack of discussion on CJ vd Linde’s performances this season. A few years ago Eddie Andrews was taken apart on this site for similar performances or in some instances, even better performances.
30 Aug 2010, 14:25 pm
@nama1(nama1)-253: I’m not sure you are 100% accurate in this assumption. I would venture to say that people are more usually divided alomg provincial lines than ethnic ones on this site.
30 Aug 2010, 14:30 pm
@nama1(nama1)-253: I have stated CJ is useless. I also defended Januarie and Ruan over Hougaard in early season, but thought the time had come to blood him considering our squad make up.
Right now better than:
Jinka, yes.
Coetzee, yes.
Pretorius, yes.
McCleod, yes.
De Bryn, yes.
Duvenage, yes.
Vermaak, yes.
Bondesio, yes.
To be honest, the only guys who played really well in the S14 were Duvenage and Pretorius. They didn’t get selected and Hougaard did due to his excellent S14, on the wing. PdV decided to go internal for his replacement scrummy and was rewarded. Now the real question is did either of these guys deserve to be picked as a specialist scrummy instead of Ruan (also covers 10) or Ricky. You can answer that.
30 Aug 2010, 14:46 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-251: ruggasts is easy to read and you don’t have to carry the yoke of defending smit…hehehe
so you say john smit ‘passed a ball that led to the creation of an opportunity’? I thought that is what every rugby player is supposed to do, especially one with 100 caps
sould we clap hands now that he passed and created an opportunity?
30 Aug 2010, 14:51 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-254:
For the most part, you may be right about that. Just seems that on this site the selection of a darker player creates more discussion than that of a white player.
Selection of Bjorn Basson earlier this year comes to mind. Good S14, yet people questioned his inclusion in the squad. Only after a good performance as a sub and his current brilliant form are people now starting to look at him in a different light, than being a “black/coloured wing”.
Compare that to the selection of Hougaard at 9, after he had a good S14 at wing. Not a whinge.
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-255:
Yes, Sarel did. His performances in the S14 warranted him a place in the squad. Whether ahead of Ricky or Ruan. Most definitely ahead of Hougaard as 3rd SH.
Sorry, Hougaard is not better than Sarel. Not at this stage. Not after having played two good games for the Boks. Sarel has been performing very well for a prolonged period. Hougaard first needs to do that.
My opinion.
30 Aug 2010, 14:53 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-256: Nope you need to bow down and nibble his toes
No serious, would be nice for the naysayers to say something positive about him and give credit when it is due, but that would be like asking you to me me your Range Rover Sport.
30 Aug 2010, 14:54 pm
Have the Boks turned the corner?
——————————————————————————–
by Tony Johnson 30/08/2010, 09:53
The lady who does the blood tests at my local medical lab in Auckland is from South Africa. She is delightful, and she is a dyed in the wool rugby fan and Springbok supporter.
I saw her a couple of days after the All Blacks won their first encounter with the Springboks at Eden Park. I was in for that blood test which every bloke over the age of 45 should have every year…cholesterol, PSA levels etc etc.
She was not happy.
She was not happy with the result, not happy with the ref, and not happy with the ribbing she’d been getting from her kiwi friends since the test.
I always look away when I get the blood taken, but this time I was tempted to look just to make sure she wasn’t going to put a rusty nail in my vein!
I saw her again this week….this time I needed a blood check to see whether I need some kind of immunisation ahead of my trip to the Commonwealth Games in Delhi. My friend was a lot happier. Her Springboks had won at last and she told me “You can have the Tri-Nations because we will win the World Cup next Year!”
Given that she is armed with all those needles I was not going to even try and pour cold water on her happiness.
Indeed, when your team has copped a few losses on the bounce all that really matters is that you win, right? It is a step in the right direction, and I have no reason think it won’t be followed by another one this weekend in Bloem.
But while I thought the test in Pretoria was fast, furious and hugely entertaining, in terms of physical intensity it simply wasn’t in the same weight division of the three All Black Springbok clashes this year. It was as if the two sides had been released from some kind of vice-like grip, and while the result was exciting, scratch the surface and you see things that still need fixing on both sides.
While the number of tries scored owed much to the positive attitude of the two teams, and the willingness to attack, it owed even more to some sloppy defence…..either poor marking, poor tackling, or in the case of one of the Aussie tries an inexplicable dropped kick-off by Bryan Habana.
Juan Smith probably couldn’t believe his luck as the sea of gold jerseys parted for his try. No-one should be allowed to score a try like that in a test.
Almost as unbelievable was Robbie Deans refusal to use his bench.
If the test the previous week had shown anything, it is if a team is going to beat the Boks at altitude they have to use their subs, and inject fresh legs at key times. To leave four players unused is almost criminal, and carries on from last year when Deans was regularly outpointed by Graham Henry in his strategic use of subs.
The Springboks, having fluffed their own defensive lines early on, ruthlessly exploited the growing weariness in the Wallabies late in the match when it was up for decision, but Deans made it easier for them.
Three Springboks stood out to me.
The first was Victor Matfield, who was able to celebrate his achievement of 100 tests in the style that had so cruelly eluded John Smit a week ago. OK so he is not so dynamic around the park these days, but he is still the undisputed king of the lineout, engineering an absolute meltdown in the Aussie ranks. His lack of productivity elsewhere will not matter so much when his mate Bakkies returns with his insatiable appetite for work.
The second was Francois Hougaard. We have seen little of him as a halfback in NZ, but enough as a winger to know he has gas, but clearly he has more than that. When the peerless Fourie du Preez returns, South Africa will have a very strong one-two punch.
And the third was Chilliboy Rallepelle. Again we haven’t seen a lot of him in NZ, but when he came on he made a real impact with two priceless steals at the breakdown. He injected some real dynamism to the forward effort, something that was lacking in that final frantic quarter of the match at Soweto.
But while the Boks deserve credit for fighting back and scoring what in the end looked like a comfortable win, I really do wonder where the Wallabies are heading.
I just can’t see how Deans can prefer the lightweight Saia Faingaa to the sturdy, battle hardened Stephen Moore at hooker, and in building his backline around the brilliant, but flakey Quade Cooper, he may well be repeating a mistake of 2003, when he put all his eggs into the Carlos Spencer basket because he no longer wanted any part of Andrew Mehrtens.
I can’t see the Springboks losing this week either, although whether they have turned the corner and are on the way back to where they were a year ago remains to be seen.
We’ll know for sure this time next year, and it might determine where I get my annual blood test done!
30 Aug 2010, 15:04 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-258: i’ll leave that to you, thank you!
so plod had 2 carries huh? Compare that to his opposite number Mealamu who carried the ball 15 times and made 41 metres.
30 Aug 2010, 15:20 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-259: nice find…tj is a funny guy
30 Aug 2010, 15:21 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-259:
“And the third was Chilliboy Rallepelle. Again we haven’t seen a lot of him in NZ, but when he came on he made a real impact with two priceless steals at the breakdown. He injected some real dynamism to the forward effort, something that was lacking in that final frantic quarter of the match at Soweto.”… that’s the Chilli I know
some people forget that Chilli is been around a while, he even captained the Boks before… he also has a couple of S14 medals… and I will add (because people often tend to throw in a name or two when they are trying to make a point e.g HM or JW or EJ) PdV rates him highly
30 Aug 2010, 15:22 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-260: You cant call him Plod, he is not a fatty, and dont go all statified on me, i see what i see and liked what i saw.
You are a strange one, sometimes you can be so impartial and other times you fall out of bed in the morning and that is that, everyone gets it here, now what i want to know is, do you like or dislike us Sharks, easy question dont avoid, reason i ask is you always avoid answering when it comes up.
And you most probably know i am no good at arguing and all that jazz.
30 Aug 2010, 15:23 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-261: You know I enjoy TJ.
30 Aug 2010, 15:34 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-262: surely you’re weren’t expecting pdv to sub plod on his 100th Test! Ingaba uyaphambana u-de Villiers
tltltltl
30 Aug 2010, 15:39 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-263: hehehei like the sharks
their fans provide me with boundless mirth!
Are you defending Plod because he is a shark or he is in form?
30 Aug 2010, 15:55 pm
Firstly you are a scoundrel
I defend him, yes because he is a Shark, our Bok Captain, i thought he played well this weekend, and yes i know there are times when he plays kuk but chit happens.
30 Aug 2010, 15:56 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-267:
Was a Shark! I hear Lions busy buying up to four Shark players. I know of three for certain.
30 Aug 2010, 16:00 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-268:
I wonder if that means the rose tinted glasses the Sharks supporters wear about Plod come off when he becomes a Lions player.
30 Aug 2010, 16:07 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-269:
Yeah! I hear Kanko and JPP are close to signing as well.
30 Aug 2010, 16:16 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-268: I was told a while ago about Smit and the Lions, apparently it was about him wanting 2 year contract and Stueli was offering only one, i posted it a a while back but i think people thought i was blowing bubbles
They cant have JPP
30 Aug 2010, 16:17 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-271:
LOL – yeah JPP is great. Fortunately the Sharks have plenty of loosies…
30 Aug 2010, 16:18 pm
Bees gets R100 000 bail.
“Blue Bulls prop Bees Roux has been granted R100 000 bail and will remain in detention until he is able to pay this amount.”
(news 24)
He will again appear in court on Oct. 15.
30 Aug 2010, 16:25 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-267: hey easy with the name-calling missy
30 Aug 2010, 16:28 pm
@nama1(nama1)-273: yoh a hundred grand?!!!! Is this dude a flight risk?
30 Aug 2010, 16:31 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-275: Esspecially since the prosecution argued for
R20 000.00 only, and his lawyers said R5 000.00
30 Aug 2010, 16:40 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-275:
The magistrate declared it a schedule-six transgression because it was a cop.
It is steep. People will now probably compare his bail to that of ET’s killer and racialise the whole thing.
30 Aug 2010, 16:45 pm
@nama1(nama1)-277: eish, i hadn’t even thought about the ET case! Now you are ‘racialising’ it for me
surely the cop didn’t owe Bees 2 month’s wages?
not that someone should be bludgeoned for owed wages…
30 Aug 2010, 16:48 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-278: Compare that to what the accused is able to aford. I don;t know what the ET accused’s bail was, but R2000.00 for them, is 3months wages.
30 Aug 2010, 16:50 pm
@nama1(nama1)-277:
Roux said that he has “no intention to live the life of a fugitive,”
As Ros indicated, the prosecution asked for “only” R20 000 bail. Don’t know what went on in the head of the magistrate.
Wonder if the BB will put up bail for him.
30 Aug 2010, 16:51 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-274: FormationShark !!!!
30 Aug 2010, 16:53 pm
R4m for Plod.
Jeez….works out about R30 000. per kilo….
30 Aug 2010, 16:59 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-281: hey Boom-Masseur?don’t start something you can’t finish! I think you’re a nice Sharky loving poppie and i’d like to keep it that way
30 Aug 2010, 17:02 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-278:
Sorry.
30 Aug 2010, 17:07 pm
@nama1(nama1)-277:
Consider these factors expressed by family members earlier.
These questions by family members of the slain cop(below) strongly suggest that the car of the alleged drunk-driving rugby player was being escorted by an official police vehicle which, however lost them in that drive.
” Mogale’s uncle, Dichabe Mogale, is questioning where his colleagues had been when Roux allegedly assaulted him.
Another relative, Richard Taukobong, asked: “When has it ever happened that a police officer escorting someone they suspect of wrongdoing stops at a red robot?
“How do you let your colleague disappear from you when you are driving a state car with blue lights?” he wanted to know.
The family has been shattered by the loss of their only breadwinner and father of three. ” (Close quote).
These questions comes from an earlier report today.
30 Aug 2010, 17:15 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-276: @nama1(nama1)-277: Now the Boks get in on the act…
Boks show solidarity to Bees
30 Aug 2010 16:49:03
The Springboks have offered their support
to Bulls prop Bees Roux, who appeared in
court on Monday on a charge of murder.
Coach Peter de Villiers, while not condoning
the action, told journalists that the matter
had been discussed within the national
team context and that it was a “tragic”
affair.
Several of the current Springboks are team-
mates and friends of Roux, who was
arrested in the early hours of Friday
morning for the alleged murder of a metro
police officer.
Weekend newspaper reports indicate an
altercation ensued after the policeman was
busy driving Roux home. The burly prop
appeared in court on Monday.
Several Bok players have told
SuperSport.com they are in the dark about
what happened, and have had no contact
with Roux or anyone else on the matter.
“We definitely talked about Bees in a team
context,” De Villiers said, “We feel for all
South Africans and especially rugby players
because a situation like this can happen to
anybody. It is a tragic situation and we
wish it on nobody.
“The team supports him 100 percent, not on
the deed but rather on the circumstances
that led to the situation developing. ”
De Villiers seemed to imply that a
misunderstanding could have led to the
event, and felt there were other parties who
were trying to use the Roux situation to
hurt rugby and the Boks in particular by
creating stereotypes about what rugby
players are.
“People are ugly outside, they’re dirty and
they try and use everything to stop us
bringing hope to the people out there, ” De
Villiers said.
Pdv on the sauce again!
30 Aug 2010, 17:16 pm
pdv doesn’t carry or use a mirror if he thinks people are ‘ugly out there’
30 Aug 2010, 17:17 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-286: What are you implying?
30 Aug 2010, 17:21 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-286:
On the preview thread, just before the game, I jokingly speculated, amongst other things, about them dedicating the game to Roux( the Loftus ‘Familie’).
30 Aug 2010, 17:30 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-287:
Pdv on the sauce again!
He is owned man. Call it what you want, puppet, held to ransom, questionable deals, blackmailed the end result is stiil the same and more and more evidence appears by the day.
If he says positive things about a player(De Jong) he excludes him from the team. If he says negative things about a player( F.Steyn, J.De V.) he includes them. That surely makes fokol sense does it now.
He is not in control. Victor selected that team for Loftus, 7 bull + the reserves Chiili & Danie, and the rest buddies(Smit, Smith, Burger etc.).
30 Aug 2010, 17:30 pm
although this a truly tragic for the dead mans family, why is just another Sa crime statistic such a big deal?
Because:
1. The alleged perpetrator is a white afrikaner
2. He is a rugby player
3. This is uncommon in terms of demographics of perpetrators on the whole
4. This is a stick with which to beat white South africans
5. This is a convenient smokescreen for the sickening murder statistics of Sa on the whole…
So keep going and shape this into a divisive issue you twats…
30 Aug 2010, 17:30 pm
@ET(ET)-285:
Lots of unanswered question, ET. One should probably wait for the 15th Oct. when the trial continues to get the facts, I think. Everything else will just be speculation and hearsay.
Apparently it was on his son’s 9th birthday that the cop was killed. Tough on the little boy. He’ll always associate his birthday with his father’s death.
30 Aug 2010, 17:35 pm
@nama1(nama1)-292:
He was, with his wife, later that Friday going to pick up a bike as a birthday present for the boy.
30 Aug 2010, 17:40 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-286:
“Several Bok players have told
SuperSport.com they are in the dark about
what happened, and have had no contact
with Roux or anyone else on the matter.”
“The team supports him 100 percent, not on
the deed but rather on the circumstances
that led to the situation developing. ”
Bad move by the Boks. Bad, bad move. They should just stay out of the whole thing. Support Bees in private if he is your friend by all means but you can’t come out and admit that you know nothing about the circumstances that led to the situation (“they are in the dark about
what happened”) and in the same breath say that you support Bees “on the circumstances that led to the situation developing. ”
Stay out of it, please Bokke!!!
30 Aug 2010, 17:44 pm
Enough of the Bees story, I find the one about Jooste and Amor having *** affairs much more interesting.
30 Aug 2010, 17:47 pm
Since is the forum for discussing Sa murder stories, how is this one:
Raped and killed for being a lesbian: South Africa ignores ‘corrective’ attacks
• Women living in fear of brutal assaults by male gangs
• Country’s ‘macho politics’ lead to lack of action
Guardian Newspaper : March 2009
The partially clothed body of Eudy Simelane, former star of South Africa’s acclaimed Banyana Banyana national female football squad, was found in a creek in a park in Kwa Thema, on the outskirts of Johannesburg. Simelane had been gang-raped and brutally beaten before being stabbed 25 times in the face, chest and legs. As well as being one of South Africa’s best-known female footballers, Simelane was a voracious equality rights campaigner and one of the first women to live openly as a lesbian in Kwa Thema.
Her brutal murder took place last April, and since then a tide of violence against lesbians in South Africa has continued to rise. Human rights campaigners say it is characterised by what they call “corrective rape” committed by men behind the guise of trying to “cure” lesbians of their sexual orientation.
Now, a report by the international NGO ActionAid, backed by the South African Human Rights Commission, condemns the culture of impunity around these crimes, which it says are going unrecognised by the state and unpunished by the legal system.
The report calls for South Africa’s criminal justice system to recognise hate crimes, including corrective rape, as a separate crime category. It argues this will force police to take action over the rising violence and ensure the resources and support is provided to those trying to bring perpetrators to justice.
The ferocity and brutality of Simelane’s murder sent shockwaves through Kwa Thema, where she was much known and loved for bringing sports fame to the sprawling township.
Her mother, Mally Simelane, said she always feared for her daughter’s safety but never imagined her life would be taken in such a way.
“I’m scared of these people that they are going to come and kill me too because I don’t know what happened,” she said. “Why did they do this horrible thing? Because of who she was? She was a sweet lady, she never fought with anyone, but why would they kill her like this? She was stabbed, 25 holes in her. The whole body, even under the feet.”
The Guardian talked to lesbians in townships in Johannesburg and Cape Town who said they were being deliberately targeted for rape and that the threat of violence had become an everyday ordeal.
“Every day I am told that they are going to kill me, that they are going to rape me and after they rape me I’ll become a girl,” said Zakhe Sowello from Soweto, Johannesburg. “When you are raped you have a lot of evidence on your body. But when we try and report these crimes nothing happens, and then you see the boys who raped you walking free on the street.”
Research released last year by Triangle, a leading South African *** rights organisation, revealed that a staggering 86% of black lesbians from the Western Cape said they lived in fear of sexual assault. The group says it is dealing with up to 10 new cases of “corrective rape” every week.
“What we’re seeing is a spike in the numbers of women coming to us having been raped and who have been told throughout the attack that being a lesbian was to blame for what was happening to them,” said Vanessa Ludwig, the chief executive at Triangle.
Support groups claim an increasingly aggressive and macho political environment is contributing to the inaction of the police over attacks on lesbians and is part of a growing cultural lethargy towards the high levels of gender-based violence in South Africa.
“When asking why lesbian women are being targeted you have to look at why all women are being raped and murdered in such high numbers in South Africa,” said Carrie Shelver, of women’s rights group Powa, a South African NGO. “So you have to look at the increasingly macho culture, which seeks to oppress women and sees them as merely sexual beings. So when there is a lesbian woman she is an absolute affront to this kind of masculinity.”
A statement released by South Africa’s national prosecuting authority said: “While hate crimes – especially of a sexual nature – are rife, it is not something that the South African government has prioritised as a specific project.”
The failure of police to follow up eyewitness statements and continue their investigation into another brutal double rape and murder of lesbian couple Sizakele Sigasa and Salome Massooa in July 2007 has led to the formation of the 07-07-07 campaign, a coalition of human rights and equality groups calling for justice for women targeted in these attacks.
Sigasa and Massooa were tortured, gang raped and shot near their homes in Meadowland, Soweto in July 2007, shortly after being verbally abused outside a bar.
Human rights and equality campaigners are hoping that the public outrage and disgust at Simelane’s death and the July trial of the three men accused of her rape and murder will help put an end to the spiralling violence increasingly faced by lesbians across South Africa.
Despite more than 30 reported murders of lesbians in the last decade, Simelane’s trial has produced the first conviction, when one man who pleaded guilty to her rape and murder was jailed last month.
On sentencing, the judge said that Simelane’s sexual orientation had “no significance” in her killing. The trial of a further three men pleading not guilty to rape, burglary and murder will start in July.
In Soweto and Kwa Thema, women seem unconvinced that Simelane’s case will change anything for the better.
Phumla talks of her experience of being taught a “classic lesson” by a group of men who abducted and raped her when she was returning from football training in 2003. She says that “practically every” lesbian in her community has suffered some form of violence in the past year and that it will take more than one trial to stop this happening.
“Every day you feel like its a time bomb waiting to go off,” she said. “You don’t have freedom of movement, you don’t have space to do as you please. You are always scared and your life always feels restricted. As women and as lesbians we need to be very aware that it is a fact of life that we are always in danger.”
30 Aug 2010, 17:51 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-283: LOLOLOLOLOLOL twit.
30 Aug 2010, 17:52 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-296:
What’s your point?
30 Aug 2010, 17:55 pm
@Transformation(Sharkformation)-283: I wont tell about your secret passion to be a realllllllllllll Sharks Supporter, and with that i bid goodnight,
30 Aug 2010, 17:57 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-296: I wonder if South african society accepts the rights and freedoms of LGBIT individuals to associate and have sexual relationships with who they would like, without fear of being murdered or raped?
30 Aug 2010, 17:59 pm
@nama1(nama1)-298: Post 291 and post 300 answers that…
What is your point other than the obvious already highlighted…?
30 Aug 2010, 18:14 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-300:
Don’t think they would want you as their spokesperson taking some of comments, re them on this forum in the past, into account.
Or is your infatuation with the L & G part a sign that you have a secret that you hide.
30 Aug 2010, 18:19 pm
@nama1(nama1)-298: really Nama what is this douche bag’s point?
this website had a thread about Bees bein accused of murder, ricky caught for drunken driving, earl rose & ryno benjamin caught for drug possession, joost and his drugs, lauaki for his multiple run-ins with the law…
Now all of a sudden we can’t talk about bees roux’s predicament because it doesn’t suit his tendencies
bloody agent
30 Aug 2010, 18:21 pm
@nama1(nama1)-302: My credibility of discussing murders in the Sa LGBIT community is about as credible as the devisive shy.te stirring speculation that you and ET seem to be trying to stimulate…
and why should any percieved LGBIT infatuation or secret matter…?
HG has always admitted that if anything HG’s tendencies are definitely lesbian…
30 Aug 2010, 18:24 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-303: Just giving you an interesting contrast to put your hypocrisy into perspective with regards to murder and sportspersons in Sa…
30 Aug 2010, 18:34 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-304:
“…the devisive shy.te stirring speculation that you and ET seem to be trying to stimulate…”
Dude, we in most instances were quoting or paraphrasing from newsreports on other websites. This being a rugby site and there having been a thread on this story already, I thought the latest news about it will interest some people.
What are you on about? “divisive, s.hyte stirring speculation”. Read the news.
30 Aug 2010, 18:36 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-305: what is hypocritical about me posting what the Bok coach said this afternoon re the bees roux matter? Point out the hypocrisy!!! You’ve got your head so far up your arse you can’t see the wood for the trees!
What connection do g@ys and lesbians have to do with rugby?!!!!
30 Aug 2010, 18:38 pm
HG
“HG has always admitted that if anything HG’s tendencies are definitely lesbian…”
All right then, Miss Information.
30 Aug 2010, 18:39 pm
Reading his latest rants on twitter I reckon Keo has finally lost it.
30 Aug 2010, 18:42 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-305:
Keo didn’t even carry the WC. Why would he bother to run a story about the murder of a female soccer player?
The Bees story is rugby related. Unfortunately so.
30 Aug 2010, 18:42 pm
@nama1(nama1)-306: It seems you were shaping rather than just quoting or paraphrasing and I then called you both on it and asked why the fascination with this incident.
I then gave reasons why I believe you, ET and transformation are “quoting and paraphrasing” the death of a policeman on this unrelated thread about “Consistency precedes control”…
30 Aug 2010, 18:45 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-307: What does the death of a policeman have to do with a thread “Consistency precedes control”….?
30 Aug 2010, 18:46 pm
@nama1(nama1)-306: @Transformation(Transformation)-307:
This “conservative” non-Black is, as is clearly demonstrated by your rational presentation of a relevant, topical issue concerning a rugby player, simply looking for a “conservative” platform to put out his garbaged “conservative” message to us as committed S.Africans.
Easy solution is to ignore him.
30 Aug 2010, 18:46 pm
@nama1(nama1)-310: Bees has not been convicted of anything…
What has the death of a policeman got to do with rugby…?
30 Aug 2010, 18:50 pm
@ET(ET)-313:
He goes about asking S.Africans if they “consider themselves black”. How that is not insulting for its blatant racist overtones only his twisted mind(what is left of it) can even contemplate explaining.
30 Aug 2010, 18:51 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-311:
Well, it seemed wrong.
What do hobits and tokoloshes have to do with any rugby thread?
30 Aug 2010, 18:53 pm
@ET(ET)-313: ET is a “committed South african”… lol
Is the murder of a LGBIT sportsperson a “conservative” platform …. If so, it seems that for you “conservative” or “liberal” is determined by race only… any dissent is silenced by the “conservative” or “racist” label – you should know that that does not work outside Sa…
…Your poor almER mater…
30 Aug 2010, 18:53 pm
@nama1(nama1)-316: Kiwis
30 Aug 2010, 18:56 pm
@nama1(nama1)-310:
Your earlier posts clearly stated that the trial starts in earnest on Oct. 15 and you advised caution yet his post #314 makes two further utterly stupid comments/question?
He is clearly a “conservative” m o n k e y who chooses to be a moron.
30 Aug 2010, 18:59 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-314:
And I never said that he is guilty of anything. I even question the bail amount as I feel it is a bit steep.
The policeman was allegedly killed by a person who is currently playing first class rugby.
Unfortunately that makes it a rugby related news story. You may not like it but it is just a fact.
Did you took the same stance when RJ was accused of DUI? Can’y quite remember.
30 Aug 2010, 19:02 pm
=@ET(ET)-315: Twist an shout ET – would your care to put that in context of your colour obsessed, anti-white quote which that question relates…? Naah, because you are a hypocrite…?
30 Aug 2010, 19:05 pm
@ET(ET)-319: the only non-”insert colour” (as you do) missing link (Figurative) here may be you…
What is a “non-black”?
30 Aug 2010, 19:07 pm
@nama1(nama1)-320: I have not taken a stance on RJ’s alleged misdemeanours other than my opinion of his on field game…
30 Aug 2010, 19:21 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-312: you’re out of your mind! I’ve posted articles from various sources that are not necessarily related to the thread for eons on this site!
Nobody is saying Bees is guilty, i posted what the springbok coach said and that’s it. Get over yourself!
30 Aug 2010, 19:25 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-311:
HG, rugby blog, high profile rugby player accused of murder…..you do the math……..of course it’s going to be discussed !!
Not by me though !!!
30 Aug 2010, 19:29 pm
@ET(ET)-313: @nama1(nama1)-316:
To just demonstrate that twisted, seeming logic look at this:
1. ” Raped and killed for being a lesbian: South Africa ignores ‘corrective’ attacks
• Women living in fear of brutal assaults by male gangs
• Country’s ‘macho politics’ lead to lack of action …… ”
his words of an issue plucked from the heavens
this he says should be on this thread
BUT
2. ” What does the death of a policeman have to do with a thread “Consistency precedes control”….? his words
AND
” I then gave reasons why I believe you, ET and transformation are “quoting and paraphrasing” the death of a policeman on this unrelated thread about “Consistency precedes control”…
his words of his understanding of what was said
Point 1. is totally, but TOTALLY, unrelated to any rugby let alone rugby thread while point 2. is totally related to rugby and ‘Bees’ Roux has appeared on virtually every thread since the incident appeared on the Keo pages on Saturday.
NO logic or rationale linking ‘points’ 1. to 2. And he does not care to ever do that, he just happily rambles on as he confuses himself in the hope that he confuses others.
Clearly evidence of the point I made in #313 and elsewhere.
30 Aug 2010, 19:34 pm
@ET(ET)-326: Those were the headlines from the Guardian Newspaper – so, they have “twisted, seeming logic”…
I see you refuse to engage in debate – preferring to attempt to stab in the back like a cowardly gangster… Typical…
30 Aug 2010, 19:35 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-324: Context and insinuations…
30 Aug 2010, 19:39 pm
@ET(ET)-326:
Too much amyloid deposited in certain areas of his deminishing brain.
Does not quite equate to Alzheimer’s but certainly a mental disease waiting to crash somewhere.
30 Aug 2010, 19:41 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-324:
According to SABC news his bail was set so high because he has money stashed in overseas bank accounts.
30 Aug 2010, 19:42 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-328:
You have a chip on your shoulder. I suggest you get rid of it.
30 Aug 2010, 19:43 pm
@ET(ET)-329:
Another new twisted point. Spare us.
It seems the Guardian automatically placed its own article on to these Keo pages. Again where is the link and logic.
Disease abounds.
Done and dusted.
30 Aug 2010, 19:43 pm
@justrugby(justrugby)-325: I am debating the context and insinuations that I percieve to be in certain posts. Like all people have an opinion, so do I, and possibly you?
Don’t mistake my posts as an attempt to close down debate – they are not.
I am asking questions and trying to understand the motivations for initiating and continuing the discussion of the death of a policeman on this thread by Nama, Transformation, and ET with some particular insinuation by the latter two…
30 Aug 2010, 19:44 pm
@ET(ET)-329: Coward… now thats done and dusted…
30 Aug 2010, 19:46 pm
@ET(ET)-332: an equivalent link and logic to your colour-based insinations regarding the death of a black policeman and a white, afrikaans rugby player.
30 Aug 2010, 19:46 pm
@nama1(nama1)-331: hahaha lovely!
good one on the chip chirp hehe
30 Aug 2010, 19:47 pm
@nama1(nama1)-330:
Don’t say that you will make this misguided hypocrite even more bonkers.
.
@nama1(nama1)-331:
NO! NO! NO! You understate that as it is clearly a LOG.
30 Aug 2010, 19:51 pm
@justrugby(justrugby)-325:
He clearly admits to guessing at best and let me be kind and say thumb-sucking at worst in hism post #333.
Don’t ever take him sweriously again ever.
30 Aug 2010, 19:51 pm
@nama1(nama1)-331: Chips and :capeflatssmiley: ‘s more appropriate for the current triumvirate of rugby related deaths on Keo… Somehow this has to have some relation to race…?
30 Aug 2010, 19:53 pm
HG
You are 1 farken strange oke…..zany as a fruitcake i reckon….
30 Aug 2010, 19:56 pm
Quoting accurately the IOL first page of today earlier now becomes becomes ” colour-based insinations regarding the death of a black policeman and a white, afrikaans rugby player. ” above.
I guess it means the family members and the reporter are liars then.
30 Aug 2010, 20:01 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-339:
Well, well.
Read Titties comment re the case on the other threads and then take him on for insinuations and theories without having any facts. That way you can prove you objectivity afa this matter goes.
Btw, I know you don’t have to prove anything to me.
30 Aug 2010, 20:01 pm
-339:
YES! YES! YES! For once you ARE correct. It is the HUMAN race and we, three, are genuine South Africans, all three and you who are gone for good?
Consistently stick to that TRUTH now, however conservative you may want to be.
30 Aug 2010, 20:03 pm
So Bees Roux like McD?
30 Aug 2010, 20:03 pm
@grant10(grant10)-340:
Don’t do this you are going to be blamed for and called all things under the SUN as has already occurred.
30 Aug 2010, 20:03 pm
@grant10(grant10)-340: Why?
30 Aug 2010, 20:08 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-344:
Keo:
“Why do boks feel need to support bees 100%? there’s a 9 year old boy who doesn’t have a dad. A cop is dead, murdered&boks feel for bees!”
The Police didn’t follow protocol, and now one of their comrades is dead.
1) Why wasn’t Bees handcuffed?
2) Why wasn’t Bees given the breathalyzer test?
3) Where were the other 2 patrolling police officers?
4) 30 minutes ater the incident, Bees’ credit card was used to buy McDonalds.
5) Why would you climb into a car with a 120Kg man suspected of drunk driving? With no backup and no patrol vehicle following.
6) They claim the other two policeman were too traumatized to explain what happened, yet they arrived after the paramedics. It seems they were surprized and needed to get their story straightened out.
It seems to me that the policemen were trying to hijack Bees Roux, they already stole his credit card, and were expecting Mohale to do the rest of the job, and got a nasty surprize.
If Bees Roux was found in the early hours of Friday Morning the 27th, dead in a ditch along the N1, the very same police would have been thousands richer, and none of those blacks would be protesting against “racially motivated murder”, their protest is ironically racist.
Don’t be so surprized, we all know how corrupt South Africa’s police are and how crime-friendly our government is. Hell, even the Police commissioner himself is the most corrupt of the lot, the intelligence minister’s wife is smuggling cocaine in from Columbia and journalists are being arrested for investigations not even published yet, and the deputy-president-to-be is calling for the mass slaughter of all Afrikaners and farmers. (Farmers, whom by the way feed 1500 mouths per farmer in this country. Kill 1 farmer and guess what happens to production and pricing.)
30 Aug 2010, 20:08 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-344:
Strange, ANC-supporters like Mighty Horua are throwing their toys out the cot.
Last year city officials decided to change a street name in Durban.
It was formerly named after Edwin Swales. A WWII major (South African born) and pilot who was awarded the Victoria Cross for his bravery behind enemy lines and sacrificing his life for his teammates.
They renamed the street to Solomon Mahlangu. A struggle so-called hero.
What did Solomaon Mahlangu do to be honoured?
During the Struggle, he walkied into a store house in Natal, and shot (planned murder) two elderly white men whom he had nothing to do with. AND now he’s a hero.
It seems to me Achilles was born before his time. The question that always vexed him was:
Will his name be remembered after he was long gone?
And, How will it be remembered?
The easy solution was if he hadn’t been born before his time, joined the ANC, and killed innocent people at random of whom he knew nothing, and VOILA! You’re a hero. We will start naming some geography after you and publishing your account in the constant fight against phantom oppression.
30 Aug 2010, 20:08 pm
Bees Roux’s behaviour is so ingrained within the Blueblood culture of Tswane. Its nothing for THEM to just slaughter people with a different point of view (literally and figuratively)
30 Aug 2010, 20:10 pm
@ET(ET)-343: what makes you a genuine South african?
The colour of your skin?
The country you live in?
The views you espouse?
The rugby team you support?
What?
30 Aug 2010, 20:10 pm
-346:
What a feeble question?
30 Aug 2010, 20:11 pm
Also on SABC news. PdV intimated that he may rest some players and give others a chance. According to him, if it will bring back the enthusiasm, why not?
30 Aug 2010, 20:11 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-348: Do you perhaps know my Membership card no?
30 Aug 2010, 20:12 pm
@nama1(nama1)-342: I am taking you on?
Why must I “balance” this?
30 Aug 2010, 20:13 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-349:
So they “literally and figuratively” slaughter people with a different point of view, hey?
Let’s suppose for a moment the cops were corrupt, (No surpize there), and the killed Bees. And that all we ever found out was that Bees’ body was found along the N1 early on the 27th, shot with a service pistol.
I suppose you wouldnt have much to say.
30 Aug 2010, 20:13 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-347: All your Q will be answer in a court of Law
30 Aug 2010, 20:13 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-350: Or is it a name drop: “My friend, Steve”
30 Aug 2010, 20:15 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-346: well….i reckon you not a dumb oke….in fact i rate you are probably I Q positive….
But EQ??
Fark me i reckon you a bit on the negative side….
What fascinates me most is how an obviously intelligent oke can be so insensitive and crass…..and seemingly still see the world through racial eyes?
Its just fascinating to me…..
30 Aug 2010, 20:15 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-356:
Well, inference can answer many of them already dumbass.
30 Aug 2010, 20:15 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-355: Moenie die Bul agter die berg gaan uithaal nie! It didnt happen, what happend was that BEES brutally killed the cop
30 Aug 2010, 20:18 pm
back to the rugby…..FFS PDV…..you killing me with this playing the old brigade into the ground my man.
Could have chosen a really good ‘form ‘ team for the weekend….instead seems we will have the same old farts ….tragic…
30 Aug 2010, 20:18 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-348: And dont come with your White Historical nonsense…Verwoerd and NP killed thousands of people yet we still have HIghways, Suburbs, etc named after them
30 Aug 2010, 20:21 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-360:
If a guy tried to hijacked me I too would brutally kill him. I’m sorry about him full service kit, I just dont have time to check his fashion in the dark hours of the morning and the heat of battle.
30 Aug 2010, 20:22 pm
@grant10(grant10)-358: EQ – will you define and explain that little convenient label?
What was comparatively negative about my comments?
What was so “insensitive and crass” about my comments in comparison to comments made by ET in particular about colour and race and you G10 commenting daily about John smit and “terminal cancer”….? (Nice for those with cancer reading Keo?)
You talk about EQ, you farking lilly-livered hypocrite…
30 Aug 2010, 20:23 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-363: So, the Cop wanted to hijack Bees?!
30 Aug 2010, 20:23 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-362:
It was WWII, first of all, secondly, I actually brought up Black “Historical Nonsense”.
It the truth. As plain and simple as that. (At post 348)
30 Aug 2010, 20:23 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-349: khawuwuyeke lo mcimbi chap, akunyanzelekanga ukuba siwushukuxe apha ku-keo ngoluhlobo. Ndiyakucela mntan’ enkosi.
30 Aug 2010, 20:24 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-365:
Perhaps, they already stole his credit card, didn’t they?
30 Aug 2010, 20:25 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-350: I await your answer, Mr Philly-steak-eating “genuine South african”
30 Aug 2010, 20:26 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-364: jeepers….you are 1 angry oke.
30 Aug 2010, 20:27 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-368: Perhaps…is that all you can come up with? Perhaps? Go tell the laaitie of the cop that perhaps his father wanted to rob him!
30 Aug 2010, 20:27 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-367:
Sorry, Transie, I didn’t get your intonation there, was that hostile or not?
30 Aug 2010, 20:27 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-354:
To prove that you’re balanced.
What are you taking me on about? For quoting from news websites about a rugby player that allegedly killed a cop? What is, in your view, wrong with sharing the latest news re the case on Keo? If you look on the home page you will see Keo himself talking about it too.
As far as insinuations and “devisive shy.te stirring speculation” go, what about this:
“It seems to me that the policemen were trying to hijack Bees Roux, they already stole his credit card, and were expecting Mohale to do the rest of the job, and got a nasty surprize.
If Bees Roux was found in the early hours of Friday Morning the 27th, dead in a ditch along the N1, the very same police would have been thousands richer, and none of those blacks would be protesting against “racially motivated murder”, their protest is ironically racist. (see p. 347)
Do you have a problem with this or are you fine with it? Just asking.
30 Aug 2010, 20:29 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-371:
……And if it comes out that they were trying to hijack a man, then PERHAPS you can do the honour of explaining to the laaitie that his dad died in full service kit in a tragic hijacking…..which he botched.
30 Aug 2010, 20:29 pm
PERHAPS the Waterkloof 4 killed the bergie
30 Aug 2010, 20:29 pm
350:
Definitely the race. Yes ! The HUMAN RACE. Long live the HUMAN RACE that’s the only race I know. And then, of course, the horse race I sometimes indulge in like Saturday past because I had my money on Afleet Express owned now by the son of Graham Beck(the doyen of S.African racing and a Capie) who recently died in London and was buried in Israel. The colours are the same whether in S.A or U.S.,the Beck brown with a white bib. And of course it won the Travers or Midsummer Derby(valued at $1 mil.) at Saratoga, N.Y.
357:
Fools rush in where S.Africans fear to tread.
Ignorance is a B…H is that not so?
30 Aug 2010, 20:30 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-364: you funny my man.
all capeys are this….kiwis are that…..luke is puke…..ricky a warthog?
But fark me its a issue if i call Smit the real cancer of the bok team and a fat boy?
My friend you have major issues….the anger eating you up is a sickness…..but its your issue.
E Q
E = emotional
30 Aug 2010, 20:31 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-375:
And PERHAPS Jacob Zuma raped many woman.
30 Aug 2010, 20:32 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-375:
And PERHAPS more white famers and Afrikaners have been killed since the reign of the ANC than all those that died in the Twin Tower bombings…..
I don’t see you comnplaining, which you are wont to do.
30 Aug 2010, 20:33 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-378: Zuma was cleared in a court of Law and the Waterkloof 4?
30 Aug 2010, 20:34 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-367: Why must he leave “this party” Trans? Why are you not accusing agile of being racist in a post to him personally in a language agile can understand? Why post to Horua about another poster in this way?
a bit cowardly?
30 Aug 2010, 20:36 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-380:
Indeed he was.
Surpize, surpize.
30 Aug 2010, 20:36 pm
@grant10(grant10)-361:
Don’t be surprise if he starts with JdJ and JF/JdV at centre, Aplon on the wing in place of Habana and Kankowski at 8 in place of Spies.
Habana, Spies and JF/JdV not in the team.
The only negative will be that WO return to the bench if that is the case.
30 Aug 2010, 20:36 pm
in the now legendary words of Justrugby…..
‘ when is just being a saffa ever going to be enough?’.
Outta here
30 Aug 2010, 20:37 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-379: For years white farmers was the symbol of the NP government’s oppresive behaviour. Perhaps Eugene de Kock only 4 killed township laaities as collateral against the ANC resistance!
30 Aug 2010, 20:37 pm
@354
nama1(nama1)-373:
Before there is any talk of “balance” he should indulge himself to a ‘bredie of ‘pampoen stronke’, as that is damn good at counter-acting those bad protein, amyloid deposited somewhere in his brain that causes such confusion and imbalance.
30 Aug 2010, 20:37 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-380:
How come you are always bringing the W4 up? With an estimated 89 people murder a day in 2008, can’t you name any other murderers?
Let’s start with alfabet murderer, Mose Sithole, 38 murders and 40 rapings………………
30 Aug 2010, 20:38 pm
@nama1(nama1)-383: those changes will be welcome…..
but not enough.
I want Butch and chilli to start….as well!
Hope butch not serious…..10 times the player the 1 dimensional MS is…
Now out
Cheers
30 Aug 2010, 20:40 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-385:
“For years white farmers was the symbol of the NP government’s oppresive behaviour.”
How does that have a bearing on what I said?
Or did you bring that up as a defence? Justification for black-on-white mass murder?
30 Aug 2010, 20:40 pm
@grant10(grant10)-388:
bye
30 Aug 2010, 20:44 pm
@ET(ET)-386: are you only saying that because you have a perception that I am “Non-black” – your term…?
If it is, then it only demonstrates crass racism as bad as anything you may highlight emanating from Keo…
ET, you are exposed as a hypocrite…
30 Aug 2010, 20:45 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-381:
Anyway, I cant see how my posts can be seen as racist as opposed to Mighty Horua here.
I was stating what we can make out of the situation. I wasn’t defending Bees.
And BTW, defending a criminal is supposed to strengthen the Laaw and keep ‘em straight.
30 Aug 2010, 20:46 pm
Aai dis die wittes teen die swartes alweer, alweer
vanaf die tyd Piet Retief in sy moer gedoen is in Dingaan se paleis het die Bloed rivier nooit opgehou bloei en bloei.
En dit lyk asof dit soek nie om optehou nog steeds.
30 Aug 2010, 20:48 pm
@ET(ET)-386:
@grant10(grant10)-388:
Cheers G10
30 Aug 2010, 20:48 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-364:
Yea, he is a freaky boy isn’t he. Poor fellow is so blind to his own glaring inadequacies. I have yet to see him criticize the most racist of all posters, his mate Skopskiet, the most notorious racist poster on Keo.
30 Aug 2010, 20:48 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-393:
“Paleis”?
And it was way before then….what do think Retief was doing there in the first place?
30 Aug 2010, 20:49 pm
@Inevitable(Inevitable)-395:
Speak of the devil….
30 Aug 2010, 20:49 pm
@grant10(grant10)-377: You come from this self-projected POV of having a moral-highground wrt political correctness – yet you will be insensitive enough to compare Smit to a Cancer…
I know that E = emotional, my question wasnt:
“What is it”?
it was
“What do you mean”?
30 Aug 2010, 20:52 pm
@grant10(grant10)-377:
spot on.
sing us another one, Boy George !
30 Aug 2010, 20:53 pm
@Inevitable(Inevitable)-395: Only certain things are permissible by hypocrites as defined by their own woolly POVs… Its nice to catch them out in the act…
30 Aug 2010, 20:53 pm
@nama1(nama1)-373: doesn’t sound good and pre-judging the issue from all quarters. Why not let the legal system take it’s course I say, before things get ugly. We know &%$#-all about what actually happened. The truth will out.
30 Aug 2010, 20:54 pm
@Inevitable(Inevitable)-395:
so says this twat @ssed little crim convict white boy from Her Majesties own glorious colonies, as if this twiddle dee dum two face colonialist even has an inkling as to wtf actually goes down in darkest Africa.
30 Aug 2010, 20:54 pm
@Inevitable(Inevitable)-395:
Post 397 was aimed at making you awre of the recent posting of 393, BTW.
30 Aug 2010, 20:54 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-393: another hypocrite….
30 Aug 2010, 20:56 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-393: and ne’er a truer word said Skoppie.
30 Aug 2010, 20:56 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-381: firstly, your scant knowlegde of venacular language is f*cking you over! ‘mcimbi’ in isiZulu is a party/ceremony but in isiXhosa it means a party/ceremony and ALSO and issue!!!
Ulwazi oluncinci luyingozi ke siyatha ndini…
2ndly: i didn’t call agile racist, didn’t even refer to him in my post, so F*CK YOU for even suggesting it when you neither understand the language or comprehend the meaning! F*ck you Heavens Game
30 Aug 2010, 20:58 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-406: don’t lie now. its so convenient to hide behind another language… you can twist and turn – it is on record…
30 Aug 2010, 20:59 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-348:
Who are they trying to fool? Do they have so few heroes that they honour murderers! I don’t know how you boys put up with this.
30 Aug 2010, 20:59 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-396: Paleis / kraal, wat die donner is die verskil eintlik?
Wat het die Volk vaders daar bo gesoek in die midde van die nag?
Kom vriendskap soek in n ander man se kraal? Jammerte is dat geskiedenis nooit kan anderste uitkom as wat veroorsak is, as geskiedenis iets wil redeneer is dit alreeds toegepak, ne so in Bees se saak ook.
Los dit maar liewers dit’t niks met ek of jy eintlik te doen.
30 Aug 2010, 21:00 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-406:
Calm down, boet. Just translate into english, and post it again for all to see, that HG can be made to look silly then, if that’s the case.
30 Aug 2010, 21:01 pm
FACT- Everyone will have his day in a court of Law, unlike during the Apartheid regime
So if BEES is not guilty, let him prove it!
30 Aug 2010, 21:02 pm
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-401:
My point from the start. That’s why I just quoted from news reports and didn’t share my personal view apart from my view on the Boks being 100% behind Bees.
Afa the case goes, I agree that we should refrain from speculating and leave the justice system to take its course.
30 Aug 2010, 21:04 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-406: shite Transie, keep your hair on boet. You’re only going to escalate this thing into the unacceptable. How about saturday’s game. And Chillie’s short stint at the wheel?
30 Aug 2010, 21:04 pm
@Inevitable(Inevitable)-408: Hahaha, name one Afrikaner or Soutie that is worthy of hero status?
30 Aug 2010, 21:05 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-409:
Well, actually it does have something to do with me, Im a decendant of his.
Secondly,
he was there to negotiate land. Is it his fault that Dingane didnt have a single shred of honour and murdered his men? Misleading them under pretense of parley, and disarming them and brutally hacking and stabbing his whole company to death?
30 Aug 2010, 21:06 pm
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-405:
Yeah Tassies, since time immemorial mans been trying to legitimately murder his friend, foe or brother
Since old Cane tried to do in Able or Jacob diddle Esau, not a soul on this planet is free of getting the raw end of the deal, or his throat slit in the name of providence.
One mans hero is another’s villain, one mans terrorist another’s freedom fighter, one mans saint is another’s charlatan, if we align our principles by way of skin color we already doomed before we even start.
30 Aug 2010, 21:06 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-414:
I already did, in my second post a few hours ago, that kicked off our “debate”.
30 Aug 2010, 21:06 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-407:
here’s my post, now please interprete verbatim arsehole!!!!
367. TRANSFORMATION(TRANSFORMATION)
:
August 30th, 2010 at 8:23 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-349:
khawuwuyeke lo mcimbi chap,
akunyanzelekanga ukuba siwushukuxe
apha ku-keo ngoluhlobo. Ndiyakucela
mntan ’ enkosi.
Go ahead, interprete for everyone!
30 Aug 2010, 21:06 pm
@nama1(nama1)-412: good man. One has a 50% chance of being right on this one. And those odds aren’t worth pursuing if you enjoy the gegees and know what’s good for you.
30 Aug 2010, 21:08 pm
“he was there to negotiate land”
He didnt had land to negotiate with, FFS.
30 Aug 2010, 21:08 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-418: Why don’t you? Especially “ngoluhlobo”?
30 Aug 2010, 21:11 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-420:
30 Aug 2010, 21:11 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-421: hehehe you’re just a senile fool, don’t know why i keep forgetting…
30 Aug 2010, 21:11 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-421: What does “uhlobo” mean?
30 Aug 2010, 21:12 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-416: I could not put it better myself. So I prefer not to take sides if I can avoid any natural prejudice. After all, who’s right? Leave it to the law I say.
30 Aug 2010, 21:13 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-417: That fake hero of yours did what he had to do otherwise Europe wouldve been Nazis! Did that soldier died or fought for the people of SA?
30 Aug 2010, 21:13 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-423: aha, caught out, like a proverbial snake in the grass…
30 Aug 2010, 21:13 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-415: Was referring to Bees’s case as nothing to do with either of us,
The rest is History my friend, you condone then the war of attrition carried out in the name of either race or creed or religion, one crusade against another?
Memorabilia of holocausts portrayed for descendants to grieve over forever and a day, never to forgive nor forget the sins of others fathers vested upon the children of another?
Such eye for eye and tooth for tooth memories and inherent flagellation of our vested heritage and right is what promotes and fires the flames of war from one generation to the other, its the one who has the power to forget who actually carries strength of purpose, the one locked into the endless repercussion of recrimination and justice can never get free of the chains of fear or hatred, unfortunately such is the truth of the matter.
30 Aug 2010, 21:16 pm
is this thread going to remain political or are we going to revert back to what these suspect journalists are paid to perform; discuss the good game?
30 Aug 2010, 21:17 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-428: Thats rich coming from you and your particular comments about Bulls players, white coaches and white south africans – you now trying to take a moral high ground is a particular form of hypocrisy only you and other seemingly sick “liberal” people seem to be comfortable with…
30 Aug 2010, 21:17 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-422: Your reaction explains it well. You come with nothing to Africa and negotiate with the Saffas for their land! Why didnt Piet Retief negotiate with the Queen of England for a piece of London?
30 Aug 2010, 21:17 pm
What I do find perplexing is HG’s reaction on this thread wrt this matter.
He was quite willing to be heard when he thought that Transie, ET and I were discussing the case believing that we were doing so to “shape this into a divisive issue you twats…” and that we were busy with “devisive shy.te stirring speculation,” while all we did was just quoting news sources wrt case.
Yet when Tittie clearly speculates and does what HG accuses us of, the silence from his side is deafening.
Who has the chip on the shoulder now?
30 Aug 2010, 21:17 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-410:
367. TRANSFORMATION(TRANSFORMATION)
:
August 30th, 2010 at 8:23 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-349:
khawuwuyeke lo mcimbi chap, – please leave this issue chap,
akunyanzelekanga ukuba siwushukuxe
apha ku-keo ngoluhlobo. – we’re not compeled to discuss it on keo in this fashion. Ndiyakucela
mntan’ enkosi. – i’m begging you child of the Lord
HG: there it is in bold…now at what point did i refer to agile? And please point to me where the vernacular word for racist is placed?!
30 Aug 2010, 21:17 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-426:
You mean you don’t know what Major Edwin Swales accomplished in WWII?
I knwo what Solomon Mahlangu did. He murdered 2 old white men in the store house. He simply walked in and shot them both with a revolver.
He didn’t know them from the next guy.
And he’s hailed as a hero by ANC.
But really, you didn’t know of Major Swales?
30 Aug 2010, 21:18 pm
@nama1(nama1)-394:
You will probably not believe I had just that for lunch.
My wife grows pumpkin in our home garden and she knows how to prepare that and she is from your greater area. But it has some fine nutritional value that is appreciated by me and others.
30 Aug 2010, 21:20 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-431:
I guess Dingane polished his land-negotiation skills with the Koi San , huh?
30 Aug 2010, 21:21 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-431:
Your ancestors didn’t originate here either.
How much is this country yours or mine?
30 Aug 2010, 21:22 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-428:
30 Aug 2010, 21:22 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-414: by the way you frame this question, suggests that, whatever the answer, it will not be acceptable. Why bother and by implication, why pursue the discussion. It’s going nowhere.
30 Aug 2010, 21:24 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-402:
LMAO!!!Your racist bias is so entrenched that you automatically presume I am white. Oh man, you are one sick boy!
30 Aug 2010, 21:24 pm
@nama1(nama1)-432:
Look, my only speculation was that Bees card was stolen. How else would you sum that up?
The rest I said seems to me, yes. And I did mention how that it is important to the Law to have to play devil’s advocate.
30 Aug 2010, 21:24 pm
@nama1(nama1)-432: Why are you trying to obscure the obvious racial stirring, not so much by you – more by ET & Trans of an incident that conveniently for the three of you involves a dead, black policeman and a white rugby player – I asked why?
You haven’t answered…
Just obfuscation and smokescreens now that the 3 of you have been called on it…
30 Aug 2010, 21:25 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-404:
You know something HG, you don’t have a foggy freeking faint dismal nonchalant clue as to who the hell I am or what I stand for or whether I’m a this or a that you dumb f’ck ignoramus ill informed poor ignorant twat @ssed sod of all sods.
If anyone here is a hypocrite, you dumb schmuck palooka prick of foregone concluded imbecility of note, you dear chappie chipmunk chump take the abominable absolute CAKE ‘Old Boy’!
30 Aug 2010, 21:26 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-436: you’re wasting your time mate. I can’t for the life of me, see why you bother.
30 Aug 2010, 21:26 pm
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-439:
It’s difficult for a coversation to go anywhere when you are faced with the unveiled, raw racism of a guy like “mighty” Horua.
30 Aug 2010, 21:27 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-414:
Sailor Malan
Edwin Swales VC
Do you need more?
30 Aug 2010, 21:28 pm
-391:
Pathetic, but desperate attempt, at saving face as aptly indicated by your “if it is” in that post, which clearly again indicates thumb-sucking ‘facts’.
It is because the state of your brain is clearly questionable to me otherwise you would not write such rubbish as “do you consider youself black?” amongst many other garbage as you did here today and many times before especially Friday.
Not my fault you reveal yourself as a genuine racist but I somewhat knew that some time ago in any case despite giving you many times the benefit of the doubt.
30 Aug 2010, 21:28 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-427:hey douche bag! ‘hlobo’ in isiXhosa means summer, way, type, fashion and in this case i said to mighty horua, we don’t have to discuss this issue hear on keo in the – hostile – ‘fashion’ he is going on with.
before mighty and agile jumped over to this thread there was no mention of the anc, farmers or any of that stuff…
30 Aug 2010, 21:28 pm
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-444:
Ja, the thing is, I just would like to outline some things that came through in the news.
Then Mighty Horua and co. decended like a bunch of, a bunch of….well, I guess like a bunch of Dingane henchmen.
30 Aug 2010, 21:29 pm
Ok so we know a few things for sure:
A human being is dead though violence.
Bees Roux most certainly was involved.
Now let me say this: I don’t believe that you are innocent until proven guilty. You are innocent until you commit a crime. The fact that the law is not able to adequately prove it’s case (beyond any reasonable doubt) and therefore hold you legally liable, does not change that fact that you did or didn’t do it.
In the coming months, starting it would seem on October 15 when Bees will be asked to plead, his defence will most surely try and explore the angle of “he/they were trying to hijack me, I was simply defending myself” In many parts of the USA this is called the Castle Principal, which states that a person is justified in using force to protect his home and property from theft or damage. Sometimes even deadly force is allowed, and sometimes this right is extended in case law to allow for the use of deadly force to protect someone else’s property.
Unfortunately this principal in not accepted law in South Africa, where you only have the right to use deadly force in the protection of you or someone else’s life. It’s a complicated test, dependant on each individual circumstance. They will no doubt try and argue that Bees had valid reason to believe that his life was threatened, and that he was therefore justified in using the force that he did.
They will use circumstantial evidence such as the fact that it is NOT proper procedure for a policeman to drive the car of someone stopped for suspicion of drunken driving, most certainly not with him inside the car. They will also point to his credit card having being used as evidence that a crime of theft was committed, and that the Metro cops in question were involved. They will no doubt cite countless examples of complaints and arrests and/or charges against Metro Policemen as an example of the fact that because the victim was a policeman it should in no way entitle him to the benefit of the doubt in this case, as he (Roux) would have been entitled to a reasonable suspicion that they were up to no good. Since he was not apparently tested for alchohol, the state can not easily claim that they were in the process of legitimately arresting him for drunken driving, thereby supporting their claim that they were acting in the normal course of duty.
What I do not know, is what potential witnesses may say, or the other policeman, which will be crucial to the case. Hopefully the truth, whatever it is, will out in this case.
Now I do not have any pre-judged ideas on this case, preferring to take the view that regardless of whether Bees is convicted or not, that children have lost a father, a wife a husband, etc etc. The human tragedy will not be any less for a guilty or innocent verdict.
What i attempted to illustrate above is that this will get very complicated, very heated, and very muddy before this is over. Race will undoubtedly be brought into it, as it already has, and the repercussions will, I fear, not stop with Bees or the Metro Police.
I would suggest to all on this site, who post with passion and conviction, to consider their words carefully in this instance, and err on the side of “less is more” when posting opinion on this issue. Once the words are posted they are there for all to see, and will remain so. Lets’s not fan the flames any further with provocative insinuations and try to take the high ground whenever possible.
Please.
30 Aug 2010, 21:30 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-436: History about Swales is biased in favour of the stupid British and What do you know about my ancestors?
30 Aug 2010, 21:31 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-443: That doesn’t make sense in the context of this – all that can be observed is your seeming hatred as demonstrated by your colourful continual criticisms and generalisations only of white people…
30 Aug 2010, 21:31 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-426:
When you get to high school you might consider taking History as a subject.
30 Aug 2010, 21:33 pm
jeepers….now PDV losing the plot…..saying ‘you either with us or against us’
WTF?
Laager mentality…these bok coaches are delusional man…..absolutely stark raving mad…..
This PDV is losing the plot….big time…..
Trek die laager toe……saam met die vet seun….
30 Aug 2010, 21:35 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-448: and uhlobo can never mean “race” or tribe???
tongue twister, hey?
English can also be used to speak figuratively as well as literally similar to the “vernacular” as you put it…
30 Aug 2010, 21:35 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-445: You were the guy with all the scenarios, with the “what if” “what if”, actually six “what if” just to prove BEES did the correct thing! Damn he murder someone!
30 Aug 2010, 21:35 pm
@Inevitable(Inevitable)-440:
You’re a d’ckhead, that much is absolutely without doubt obvious in plain categorized text black and white, whatever ‘color’ you purport to uphold as your value system of self righteousness, you got no foggy faint clue as to who represents who or what, you dumb deluded ignoramus schmuck, along with your other feeble self righteous colonizers who skipped and skedaddled for cover under Her Majesties Holy Imperial Empire. Just like HG over here you got f’all clue, you dumb schmuck imbecile, and so your abysmal delusions remain, enshrined and enshrouded in your inadequate illegitimate deluded preconceived conceited ignorance.
30 Aug 2010, 21:36 pm
@Inevitable(Inevitable)-453: I had it but they taught it in Afrikaans and didnt understand
30 Aug 2010, 21:36 pm
PDV ….those other 2 stooges are quiet as church mice…..suggest you maybe shut it a bit as well my man….
You sounding as mal as HG!
30 Aug 2010, 21:38 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-442:
You didn’t read then.
Here it is again.
It is rugby news. Bees, a rugby player from the Blue Bulls appeared in court today for alleged murder. The case was discussed over the weekend on this site. Naturally, I and some others, were curious as to what transpired in court today and if there are any new developments re the situation that Bees finds himself in. You, in all your almighty wisdom, decided that we were discussing it for other reasons.
Take that chip of your shoulder, boet.
30 Aug 2010, 21:39 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-450: take heed of these wise words boys(and girls) because they are indeed ‘wise’.
30 Aug 2010, 21:39 pm
Ok, I posted this at the bottom of the previous page and obviously nobody read it so the repost:
Ok so we know a few things for sure:
A human being is dead though violence.
Bees Roux most certainly was involved.
Now let me say this: I don’t believe that you are innocent until proven guilty. You are innocent until you commit a crime. The fact that the law is not able to adequately prove it’s case (beyond any reasonable doubt) and therefore hold you legally liable, does not change that fact that you did or didn’t do it.
In the coming months, starting it would seem on October 15 when Bees will be asked to plead, his defence will most surely try and explore the angle of “he/they were trying to hijack me, I was simply defending myself” In many parts of the USA this is called the Castle Principal, which states that a person is justified in using force to protect his home and property from theft or damage. Sometimes even deadly force is allowed, and sometimes this right is extended in case law to allow for the use of deadly force to protect someone else’s property.
Unfortunately this principal in not accepted law in South Africa, where you only have the right to use deadly force in the protection of you or someone else’s life. It’s a complicated test, dependant on each individual circumstance. They will no doubt try and argue that Bees had valid reason to believe that his life was threatened, and that he was therefore justified in using the force that he did.
They will use circumstantial evidence such as the fact that it is NOT proper procedure for a policeman to drive the car of someone stopped for suspicion of drunken driving, most certainly not with him inside the car. They will also point to his credit card having being used as evidence that a crime of theft was committed, and that the Metro cops in question were involved. They will no doubt cite countless examples of complaints and arrests and/or charges against Metro Policemen as an example of the fact that because the victim was a policeman it should in no way entitle him to the benefit of the doubt in this case, as he (Roux) would have been entitled to a reasonable suspicion that they were up to no good. Since he was not apparently tested for alchohol, the state can not easily claim that they were in the process of legitimately arresting him for drunken driving, thereby supporting their claim that they were acting in the normal course of duty.
What I do not know, is what potential witnesses may say, or the other policeman, which will be crucial to the case. Hopefully the truth, whatever it is, will out in this case.
Now I do not have any pre-judged ideas on this case, preferring to take the view that regardless of whether Bees is convicted or not, that children have lost a father, a wife a husband, etc etc. The human tragedy will not be any less for a guilty or innocent verdict.
What i attempted to illustrate above is that this will get very complicated, very heated, and very muddy before this is over. Race will undoubtedly be brought into it, as it already has, and the repercussions will, I fear, not stop with Bees or the Metro Police.
I would suggest to all on this site, who post with passion and conviction, to consider their words carefully in this instance, and err on the side of “less is more” when posting opinion on this issue. Once the words are posted they are there for all to see, and will remain so. Lets’s not fan the flames any further with provocative insinuations and try to take the high ground whenever possible.
Please.
30 Aug 2010, 21:40 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-455: dlckhead, race or tribe are ‘uhlanga’ racist therefore is ‘ubuhlanga’ in isiXhosa! I told you that you scant knowledge of vernacular clearly gleened from the domestics that raised you will make a fool of you as is the case! I’m done with you.
You have no scruples, are under-handed and quite frankly sinister. Now f*ck you!
30 Aug 2010, 21:41 pm
are you people effing insane?
the sharks are the greatest rugby team in the world, well done kiwis for winning the 3n, well done bokke for stuffing the aussie goats (vindicated you weasel where are you?), smitty is a champ, the zulus were knobbed unfairly by the brits (after unfairly causing the mfecane) and bees is a b a st ard if he beat that policeman to death.
now shut the f up and hail the mighty sharks all you province girls who were kicking up a storm early s14. the big top has set up camp at newlands and the stars (sharks) will be there sometime soon to entertain.
back from Scotland, Brae Scotland! i missed you crackers a bit, even you grant el speedoflosser and skopshite.
30 Aug 2010, 21:41 pm
@Inevitable(Inevitable)-453: It seems he is not interested in heroism even if the hero happens to be a South african… For him there seems to be a problem that Swales VC – a proper Saffa – is white… Remember, some Saffers think that WW2 was a Europoean “Breetish” war only…
30 Aug 2010, 21:43 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-463: aha, and you may have demonstrated yourself as racist as the those perceived racists you seem to pick out
30 Aug 2010, 21:44 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-458:
Sorry to hear, mate. Africaans is obviously not your mother tongue.
30 Aug 2010, 21:44 pm
-442:
Oh! Shut up now and accept that you exposed your own inherent racist tendencies not only with your ” do you consider yourself to be black”? but in other ways too before today.
It does not matter what I consider myself or anyone else to be, tne fact is biology says we belong to to the species **** sapiens but the ‘sapiens’ component was left out when it came to you. I have in the past reminded you of being unwise but you are non-the-wiser it seems.
You lack the decency and honesty to accept that news media information was simply presented via mostly quotations from different papers and sources.
30 Aug 2010, 21:45 pm
@nama1(nama1)-460: I’d think everyone with an attachment to rugby in this country, even remote, would take an interest in this case. What is shameful is when people judge without giving the facts some air.
30 Aug 2010, 21:45 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-465: :capeflatsmiley: for you! Swales was more British than anything, Damn SA at that time was a British colony
30 Aug 2010, 21:46 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-465:
Who’s war was it, your mama’s n papa’s?
It weren’t mine, that’s a fact for sure, so how the f’ck could it possibly have been yours, lightie junior?
Same as Piet Retief got f’all to do with Tittytwostroke unless he wanna make it his business, as past tense as it emphatically is, till death do him part from it.
30 Aug 2010, 21:49 pm
@nama1(nama1)-460: Why and how should my questioning, in particular the insidious insinuations & context of posting about the death of a policeman on this unrelated thread, demonstrate a “chip” on the shoulder…
the only inferiority or “chip” is the thinking that three posters can insinuate what they like about the incident with a certain slant and think that they won’t be challenged…
30 Aug 2010, 21:49 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-457:
No worries mate, you are not operating with a full deck but good for a laugh. Too funny for words!
30 Aug 2010, 21:50 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-466: if indeed you have no idea what i said ask your friend rangerman he seems to have a better grasp of native languages! You on the other hand are a nothing but a senile arsehole who just spews sh*t all over this site! When is the banshee calling you anyway i’m sommer gatvol of you now! Ffs
30 Aug 2010, 21:51 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-463: “gleened from the domestic”?
did you “gleen” that fancy talk from the baas on the plaas then?
30 Aug 2010, 21:52 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-471: It was a “World War”, dimwit…
Who is the lightie junior now? – You take a farking ignorant, immature view.
30 Aug 2010, 21:52 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-465:
That’s incredible!
30 Aug 2010, 21:53 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-464: hullo bush man. Seems we’re to welcome you home. Are you not one of these Blueberry carrying suits who can blog from the slopes of Killie? You probably could you bugger but had better things to do with your time. Like catch a basket of salmon for the fryer. Now that you’re done with haggis and black pudding, welcome home to biltong and skaapse kop.
30 Aug 2010, 21:53 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-474: Its humiliating being caught in a bit of a fib, hey?
30 Aug 2010, 21:53 pm
@Inevitable(Inevitable)-467: No need to be sorry..I am glad Afrikaans is not my ma se tong
30 Aug 2010, 21:53 pm
Outtahere
30 Aug 2010, 21:54 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-472:
“…the insidious insinuations & context of posting…”
Quote the insinuations, please?
30 Aug 2010, 21:55 pm
@nama1(nama1)-460:
This arrogant twit does not ever deal in truth and facts and honesty and clarity because those demands will never suit his nefarious purposes of at all times trying to run with the hares and hunt with the hounds.
But his cover has been blown only by him now.
He has so tied himself up in knots today that not even if he was given a year would he be able to untie the glorious mess he has landed in.
30 Aug 2010, 21:56 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-466: dimwit ‘hlobo’ = summer, type, style, fashion, manner
‘hlanga’ = race, tribe
two totally different words! But in the business of mischief-making details like understanding the context of the words gets thrown out.
30 Aug 2010, 21:57 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-476:
Go easy on him, he is not well.
30 Aug 2010, 21:59 pm
and the Sharkies did okay Ranger. Was at Newlands on friday and the fare wasn’t quite as good. Wine was okay tho. Thankfully the BB’s stank equally on the night. Sharkies looking good but we’re taking you down boet.
30 Aug 2010, 22:00 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-474: @nama1(nama1)-482:
I advised you guys as well as myself to ignore this arrogant fool and we all did not and we are many posts down the line already.
All that has really happened is that he has tied himself up further to the extent that he cannot extricate himself.
It is going around and around and achieving nothing more now.
Please let us leave it where it is.
We will just waste more time.
30 Aug 2010, 22:02 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-471:
My dad served in the border war from SWA to Angola for 5 years.
My grandpa served in WWII in North Africa.
My great grandpa fought in the Anglo-Boer wars.
Piet Retief was my ancestor.
Forgive me for supplying the facts.
30 Aug 2010, 22:03 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-475:there were no baas ‘what whats’ in the Transkei my dear friend
so unfortunately for you i wasn’t raised on someone else’s property nor am i progeny of labourers! 
30 Aug 2010, 22:04 pm
@ET(ET)-483: geez guys, you are reading a whole lot into this that seems to be skimming over the top of my head. Obviously dim-witted before you point this obvious fact out. So I’ll tuck my tail between my legs and return another day when simple rugby matters fall within my limited level of understanding and I can join in the conversation.
30 Aug 2010, 22:05 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-481:
Bye
30 Aug 2010, 22:06 pm
@ET(ET)-483:
The man lost it today. Totally.
Now even arguing with Transie about the meaning of words of a language that he doesn’t even speak.
The arrogance of some people.
30 Aug 2010, 22:06 pm
The Huns and the Brits are kissing cousins, yet the one murdered the other over rank obsessed power maniacal oppression.
Now they wanna try make it my war even though it happened almost seventy years ago on another continent between warring Europeans over their own emaciated warmongering.
You can have it with all my blessings, it has f’all to do with me here and now, and never will. Its consigned to history, same as Julius Caesars exploits in Egypt or Gaul.
30 Aug 2010, 22:07 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-489: I’m hugely relieved Transie. So now I can go to bed and sleep conscious cleared. Thanks for that. And enjoy a wonderful tomorrow. Cheers all.
30 Aug 2010, 22:10 pm
@ET(ET)-483: this is the post of the day for me, and should be a constant reminder for the future when dealing with Heavens Game!
30 Aug 2010, 22:13 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-488:
So which war you wanna serve in Titty, or is your heritage only half fulfilled if there’s no war to fight, you might as well continue fanning the flames of the old dead and buried one?
One up for the Volk, einheid maak magt, of hoe se die siening?
Rugby players aligning themselves and sympathizing with Bees Roux in this case is poor strategy and poor judgment, even if he was acting out of self defense as his legal team is undoubtedly going to be pleading.
No winners here, better believe it and let it be.
30 Aug 2010, 22:13 pm
BTW, why is Shark supporters basking in the glory of the BlueBlood team ….?
30 Aug 2010, 22:14 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-470:
i am related the the brave edwin swales.
he was as south african as you – only difference was that he volunteered to fight the good fight.
@ET(ET)-487: hell, you are boring…..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-490: couldn’t agree more – rather have a beer and chat at forries
30 Aug 2010, 22:16 pm
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-494: cheers Tassies…pity we couldn’t delve into issues rugby related
30 Aug 2010, 22:16 pm
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-478:
man, i loved every minute of Scotland but getting home was wonderful and thanks!
p.s. SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Transformation(Transformation)-489: LMAO! now why so calm with me and p iss ed with HG?
i have never seen HG post anything racist? he seems to be your mirror image actually, calling people on their generalisations, keeping them honest so to speak?
p.s. the Kei is a special place, very special.
30 Aug 2010, 22:17 pm
@charo(charo)-498: So I didnt volunteered to fight the oppressive white regime? or a good fight?
30 Aug 2010, 22:18 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-496:
No I was just saying these things are relevant.
Anyway…………
30 Aug 2010, 22:18 pm
Actually I must say I don’t think the springboks have any brains whatsoever, are they out of their mind.
30 Aug 2010, 22:20 pm
@charo(charo)-498: to Edwin Swales VC himself charo?
what a hero. he showed the selflessness a lot of people in this world would do well to emulate.
hats off and bottoms up to old Swales!
30 Aug 2010, 22:22 pm
@cab(cab)-503: i didnt read the article cab, whats the problem?
30 Aug 2010, 22:23 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-501: take some time, focus and repost your thoughts here as they are slighly muddled in this first attempt.
30 Aug 2010, 22:29 pm
Sounds like some of them are supporting this bees character. Actually I’m having 2nd thoughts about this lot. Keo is quite right, just as he was when exposing all the other **** that has gone on.
30 Aug 2010, 22:32 pm
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-490:
It happened over many hours before you came on line so you will not clearly understand the flow of the debate/argument unless you read from the top forwards.
But it is going round incircles now and achieving nothing more for this poor fool.(you may not follow this label).
30 Aug 2010, 22:33 pm
I’ve always been slightly worried about buying into the Springbok brand, but I thought nelson Mandela was quite right in that it had come to represent a different part of south Africa which was inclusive, all I see is more laager behaviour, the justice 4 bakkies thing was dom but this has the potential for causing untold damage to them.
30 Aug 2010, 22:34 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-500: he pissed me off, you didn’t…
I haven!t said HG is racist either just that he is a duplicitious, underhanded liar who doesn’t know isiXhosa for sh*t!!
How he could read what i wrote to mighty horua and translate it to me saying agile-tits is racist, was really f*cked up considering that i was asking mighty horua to tone down his rhetoric…
Anyway, i’m glad you had a lekker time in Scotland…
30 Aug 2010, 22:35 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-502: They are relevant in terms of your family’s history and your heritage but it depends on how tied you are to the same fight for self determination and only relevant to your own personal present progress or evolution.
If we believe we are our ancestors progeny and we are beholden to our kith and kin to fight for our ethnic or national independence and separateness in the name of our nationalist principles, then its unfortunate that everywhere on this planet, you will find one religion or one ethnicity or one clan or creed or nationality is fighting to either usurp or dominate or protect themselves over or against some one other.
30 Aug 2010, 22:35 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-506: Sorry, I didnt know your were the webmaster!
30 Aug 2010, 22:35 pm
@nama1(nama1)-492:
Ek se vir jou hy moet pampoen stronke bredie eet.
Dit sal ontslae raak van sy arrogansie.
30 Aug 2010, 22:40 pm
@cab(cab)-509:
Is this the colour cap you conveniently wear today?
What happened to that ‘kragdadige’ one?
Do you consider their action, after they claim not to know the facts or some such idea, to support him 100% not to be ‘kragdadig’?
30 Aug 2010, 22:41 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-501:
how to answer that post?
childish maybe?
immature – certainly!
@rangerman(rangerman)-504:
don’t carry the genes unfortunately. his (also) late brother, harry, was married to my mom’s cousin.
boarded with harry and his family during my matric year (family had relocated to pe). wonderful man who was convinced i would go on to play rugby for natal
30 Aug 2010, 22:43 pm
@cab(cab)-509: cmon cab.
the actions of a drunken man should not be held up as a reason to disparage what the bok means to millions of people of all colours.
was bees even a bok at any time?
doesnt matter. every sport has its mavericks. if he is guilty he must rot imo.
@Transformation(Transformation)-510: cheers man. but it seems he got under your skin a bit transie? this is in itself something surprising to me.
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-512:
see what you get for trying to help someone?
bleddy ni ger ian.
30 Aug 2010, 22:44 pm
@ET(ET)-513:
Miskien moet jy vir hom ‘n paar kilogram daarvan, uit jou vrou se tuin uit, DHL.
30 Aug 2010, 22:45 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-516:
30 Aug 2010, 22:47 pm
Shut up ET, I don’t have time for your stupidity tonight
30 Aug 2010, 22:47 pm
@charo(charo)-515: there are certainly worse aspirations charo.
my ancestors castles in Scotland are mostky in ruins. visited a few of these places and it was poignant to me, skop would probably just feel like a rolling stone.
30 Aug 2010, 22:48 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-518:
@cab(cab)-519: et is about as mixed up as his namesake was.
30 Aug 2010, 22:48 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-495:
Imagine the nerve of him asking me ” do you consider yourself black” as if that ever features in my value system.
I’ll get Temba Ludwaba to F- him up big time(I hope he is still OK).
30 Aug 2010, 22:50 pm
@nama1(nama1)-517:
Not n Fok. Dit is te goed om op hom te mors en ek moet betaal daarvoor?
30 Aug 2010, 22:50 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-516:
the arch fence sitter, trying to straddle a razor wire fence with one leg dangling either side is bound to get your knackers severely tortured and cut up pretty bad ultimately.
Its tough trying to be impartial in a land that knows no impartiality, the voice of liberalized reason is often the first voice to get silenced in the impending genocide.
Just ask all the peace lovers that got caught up in the ghettos of Warsaw or behind the fences of Auschwitz, and here we proclaim with vociferous humanity how impartial and liberal we are.
30 Aug 2010, 22:52 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-516: look, i could’ve just left mighty to go on rubbishing the situation but i calmly asked him to tone the rhetoric and now that imbecile with knowledge of isiXhosa as scant as Grant10′s speedo wants to write kak about what is supposedly said, made me MAL!
Why would you be suprised that i can be incensed too?
30 Aug 2010, 22:53 pm
@cab(cab)-519:
Too embarrassed to state the colour of your cap today because of egg on your face?
Now you want to disown your Boks? How f..kin hilarious are you all.
30 Aug 2010, 22:54 pm
Since when is Mighty Horua any less vindicated in his stance as to who should be right or wrong in this case?
Cause he’s in the minority here perhaps, but out there he’s well within the majority, so this forum actually represents the dimwitted minority and by far protects the principles of the non principled it could be said.
30 Aug 2010, 22:58 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-520:
lucky for you your forbears had castles.
mine lived in greater manchester ffs!!!!!
30 Aug 2010, 23:00 pm
Got nothing to do with anything liberal or goody2shoes or anything, simple basic human decency.
ET, I am not interested in having a ***-4-tat with you or any 1-upmanship, believe what you must.
30 Aug 2010, 23:01 pm
@cab(cab)-509:
Mandela is wrong and I have always been right wrt the laager mentality. So who is again smart now?
Ek lag my gat af vir jou doen en late.
Maar nou is jy skielek saam met my met jou 503,507, 509 edm. ek het jou ingelig omtrent die kragdadige laager(in plaas van ‘lager’)
30 Aug 2010, 23:04 pm
@ET(ET)-522:geez, i know hey, today was the last straw for me. Never again.
30 Aug 2010, 23:04 pm
No ET, I don’t view this as a jousting topic, this is just abysmal barbarism. I actually believe anyone can support this, who in their right mind?
30 Aug 2010, 23:05 pm
@cab(cab)-529:
Try sticking to the truth.
Where is this below ever posted on this thread?
” Got nothing to do with anything liberal or goody2shoes…”
One man’s stupidity is another man’s wisdom, ‘klongtjie’.
30 Aug 2010, 23:06 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-500:
For your information HG has posted something very racists and was caught out with it not so long ago.
30 Aug 2010, 23:07 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-524: shhhhhhh…..you make too much sense there you old crackhead.
p.s. “mighty” horua is the chap cracking off-colour jokes at the braai to get some attention. mildly amusing yet inoffensive in spite of his best efforts.
@Transformation(Transformation)-525: so he took a word out of context, give the guy props for at least making an effort to speak an indigenous language other than afrikaans.
i like the angry transie, cmon let it all out. tell us what you really think
@charo(charo)-528: hehe, our family were disposessed a loooooooooong time ago charo.
30 Aug 2010, 23:08 pm
show me a human who is basically decent who represents humanity as a whole, and I’ll proclaim him a saint, so far ain’t met too many of those, perhaps some here have.
I see plenty these rugger buggers thinking they got brains where they haven’t, that I seen plenty of, lot of self righteous goody2shoes pontificated prats thinking because they got some Upperty Crusty Queens education they somehow better than the next man by virtue of their lily languid highfalutin indoctrination or some such absolute self righteous cr@p.
30 Aug 2010, 23:10 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-531:
I thought that what we posted from the various news reports by way of quotations mostly was fairly simple and just presenting the news in a non-judgemental way, but look where and what our honest approach got us?
But I must say I was impressed the way you and Nama handled it although it was pretty one sided because the truth of the matter was on one side only.
I won’t forget this day in a hurry.
30 Aug 2010, 23:10 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-534: well share it with us then hurricane.
and congrats to your side, deserved tri nations victors without question.
30 Aug 2010, 23:10 pm
Fk what’s the point, i’m off.
30 Aug 2010, 23:11 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-536: how can one person represent humanity as a whole?
30 Aug 2010, 23:13 pm
Bees released on bail
2010-08-30 19:09
Pretoria – South African Blue Bulls rugby
player accused of the murder of a Pretoria
police officer was released on bail on
Monday, media and
officials said.
Jacobus Stephanus “Bees” Roux was
released on a R100 000 bail after he
appeared at a magistrate’s court in Pretoria
and will appear again in court on October
15.
“He is charged with murder,” national
prosecuting authority spokesman Mthunzi
Mhanga told AFP.
Roux was arrested on Friday for allegedly
killing 38-year-old police officer Ntshimane
Mogale who had earlier pulled over Roux
for suspected drunk driving, said police.
Police said Mogale was killed during an
altercation after he had been severely
assaulted and subsequently died,
apparently from his
injuries.
However Roux’s lawyer, Rudi Krause, said
his client was never arrested for driving
under the influence of alcohol nor were
any tests proving this conducted, reported
radio 702.
Roux, 28, joined the Bulls in 2009 and in
May played in the Super 14 final that saw
his team beat fellow South African side the
Stormers to retain the southern hemisphere
title for a second year.
30 Aug 2010, 23:13 pm
@cab(cab)-539: cheers cab, dont take it personally.
et’s challenges have nothing to do with you but everything to do with his preconcieved ideas.
30 Aug 2010, 23:16 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-541: is it possible that bees was the victim of an attempted hijacking by corrupt police transie?
i have not really followed the case tbh.
30 Aug 2010, 23:18 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-535: mnxim, why would you want to converse with an angry person? I really don’t like confrontation, ask Rossoneri she’ll tell you.
30 Aug 2010, 23:20 pm
Beesty Boy quite possibly got caught up in a spate of innocuous circumstance he could not control, something right out of his hands. And his preconditioned conditioning took control of his actions and lo and behold the dismal fate of action and reaction rears its inevitable exacting unremitting head.
To sit on the fence outside of the circumstance and proclaim justice is way beyond anyone’s jurisdiction, not even judge or jury or prosecutor or council for defense might ever be fully aware of the absolute facts.
Life plays out the circumstances of cards dealt out sometimes in the twilight of a life conditioned by events, notwithstanding the cries of innocence of a bewildered soul caught in the stranglehold of circumstance beyond our preordained aspirations for redemption from our blinded humanness.
30 Aug 2010, 23:21 pm
That’s not the truth either and you know that first part is not true cos of your beliefs, but I do know ppl that are inherently decent and don’t support **** like this regardless of their education or lack thereof.
And as a matter of interest if it were not for the uppity principled English, not that they are neccarily better than anyone else, bit were it not for them those ghettos in Poland would have continued for alot longer and perhaps the world would be a very different place today.
I’m not sure I really understand how you manage to reconcile your wonderfully wise relativity with your other specific rantings. Either there are morals or there are none, can’t have it both ways.
You are all fkd in the head. I’m out.
30 Aug 2010, 23:21 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-541:
Are you looking for more trouble now?
It is imperfect of you to post a report like that as you may taint it too much one way or the other.
30 Aug 2010, 23:21 pm
@ET(ET)-537: same here…what a day..
30 Aug 2010, 23:27 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-544: i often enjoy angry conversations.
they are more truthful.
not to be confused with agressive conversations though.
30 Aug 2010, 23:28 pm
Who knows, nobody knows, and so the story goes
shoulda stayed away from the flickering lights of Hatfield, that might have kept him outa trouble, but pity nobody told him about the potentiality of his waywardness, so they say Life is actually Fair no matter what we like to believe to the contrary.
30 Aug 2010, 23:31 pm
ok people. gotta go.
most of you are insane
have a good evening.
30 Aug 2010, 23:31 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-543: it’s quite possible ranger, at this point one can’t discount anything. I know a cop a friend of mine’s car to Mount police station when they stopped him and saw that he was over the limit and still had 2 bottles of johnnie walker on the backseat… But they were quite close to the police station.
I really have no idea about gauteng metro police cops, they are quite arrogant and trigger happy with the chisa mpama!
They busted my brother in jozi for cracking an amstel inside a moving vehicle even though he was in the passenger seat and the driver was sober…
30 Aug 2010, 23:39 pm
Seems Bees will get more hits for Keo than John Smit
30 Aug 2010, 23:39 pm
@ET(ET)-547: nope not looking for trouble at all. Just won’t be cowered by spuriou, baseless accusations from a duplicitious, race obsessed HG who was reading kak between imaginary lines created by his own preconcieved ideas of who i am and what i’m supposedly prone to do.
30 Aug 2010, 23:41 pm
I thought traffic cops in SA carry fire arms, is that still the case?
30 Aug 2010, 23:43 pm
The Upperty Principled English got plenty to be proud about, I have absolutely no doubts nor deliberations about that. Plenty of stoic bloody bulldog mindedness that stood for principles where others shied away.
Though we talking about circumstance here, who is guilty and who is innocent in a state of abject atrocity? Bees’s mama believes one thing and the victims kinfolk quite the other. Now a state of war can be declared over principles bent in favor of ideology and conviction where one mans rights are another mans wrongs.
Not much right or wrong in a world of duality where the vague halo’s of innocence are dimmed out by the purgatory of self righteousness.
Bok’s should stay well clear of the confusion because confusion it is, it has only to be considered within the realms of the state of confusion it hails from which is a set of circumstances born and bred in antipathy and intolerance.
30 Aug 2010, 23:47 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-554:
Absolutely true. He assumes too much and then proceeds to cover his A R S E with an ” if it is ” bit of moronic garbage.
30 Aug 2010, 23:47 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-556: Killing is wrong in any newspaper
None of that one mans view versus another view, same as none of that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
Killing in self defence is an all together different topic
30 Aug 2010, 23:48 pm
Bit like jake whites mama then?
30 Aug 2010, 23:57 pm
Yip Jakey Fakey’s mama believes her son to be a saint, even though I know little differently, or so I believe.
Nobody’s perfect in purgatory, and by Jove its purgatory we living and breathing in as we find ourselves thrashing and writhing like fishes on land gasping for water.
If anyone were remotely near to perfection they simply wouldn’t be here, fraught within the confines of our despicably dubious dichotomous natures, as plain and simple as that, not so?
30 Aug 2010, 23:57 pm
What you appear to be suggesting is to aspire to a life of material detatchmnent, which is impossible. you yourself have strong personal feelings over racism, jake and hifalutunism. We live in the real world and in societies where certain norms and morals everyone tries to live by. Some morals change over time and culture but all of them condemn murder, including all the religions and spiritual traditions.
30 Aug 2010, 23:58 pm
@JL1(JL1)-558: Now who is to determine if its in self defense or out of rage and hatred, which version of events you gonna believe?
31 Aug 2010, 00:09 am
well the so called ‘real world’ needs to try and retain its judicial principles of right and wrong, as often blurred these rights and wrongs might become, depending who’s sitting in the throne at the time.
But ultimately the ‘real’ right, is often not the obvious one, as we are all led by the nose pertaining to our preconditioned conditioning.
So best anyone can do is try be as true to themselves as they possibly can be, but as imperfection is in an imperfect world of dubious dichotomous duality inspired circumstance, we have no free will of which to really speak ultimately.
Be born and bred with righteousness and goody2shoes tendencies surrounding your impressionable mind and by most accounts you may imbibe those attributes. On the other hand be born and bred with quite the opposite and a monster might become the offspring. Who decides, the initiator or the victim, who is the culprit and who is the unfortunate recipient of the circumstance?
Easy to sit in judgment from a vantage point of incomplete parameters of virtue, all that society can hold dear to is its principles of honor and morality, nothing wrong in that, though it is often devoid of all the salient facts.
31 Aug 2010, 00:09 am
So if this world is imperfect and therefore everything it is inherently flawed, dies this excuse all behaviour? Are you saying it is not for man to judge even if someone believes in the preciousness of life where there is no afterlife or any universal force that judges?
31 Aug 2010, 00:14 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-562: I do need to ro believe any version, no one made me judge, and hence I will not make judgement, I would speculate, but that would be from gathering my facts from a journo who tried as he or she may, will still try and put their view or angle across, therefore no judgment from me
31 Aug 2010, 00:23 am
Life is of course precious, and that goes for all living beings, not only man. So for us to proclaim our morality based on our principles of prejudicial incomplete awareness of who we are or where man fits into the grander scheme of things is really only a part of the whole charade.
Once we have aspired to an understanding that perhaps goes beyond judgment of conditional rights and wrongs and eyes for eyes or teeth for teeth type retributions, then perhaps we are verging upon the values which man should have always held to be his mainstay of humane morality.
Then perhaps at such a state of true compassion can man proclaim himself to be a paragon of real moral virtue, but where is such a man, I might say he exists and others will dispute or refute the fact.
31 Aug 2010, 00:34 am
No I’m sorry, that reasoning is not consistent. I agree the world is imperfect as are we all, and you are largely correct over the massive influence of conditioning, but I don’t subscribe to your general feeling of apathy at our helpless or lack of free will.
The universe may be cruel or even indifferent, but humanity can craft it’s own laws to at least try make an inherently imperfect world slightly more perfect or fair.
What happens beyond this world we have no control over whether we believe or not, but there is at least some control over the present one where things like racism and murder and such like we pronounce judgement on.
I’m out now for proper, will read tomoorow, but I will never support this nonsense as just being relative.
31 Aug 2010, 00:59 am
where all this so called free will gotten man so far, staring extinction in the face through his free actions creating unstable natural or political or economical or ecological circumstances beyond his manageable control.
Such is the freedom by which man wills his own destiny, he has absolutely none, else he would not have become subject to the wills and dictates of others like Stalin, Hitler, Genghis Khan, Idi Amin, Ayatollah Khomeini, Saddam Hussein, and closer to home, Mugabe, Verwoerd, Vorster, etc. etc. etc.
Not a case of apathy, its a case of act where your actions can bear fruit, act within the realms where your action begets results.
That is act upon oneself, all other activity is relative to outer stimulus and conditioning, the only avenue of real advantage is to act in a manner which benefits ones own evolution beyond the dictates of circumstantial conditioning, and that is another subject not easily discussed of here.
31 Aug 2010, 01:55 am
Yawn…………….
31 Aug 2010, 04:00 am
Sometimes I wonder if it will be worthwhile to understand what skop is actually trying to say…but when I get the urge I just take a Disprin and lie down for a while and the urge usually goes away!
What I really struggle with is how a person with so many preconceived ideas about other people can get on the podium and start preaching about “going beyond’ and “true compassion”?
31 Aug 2010, 04:18 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-570:
I managed the first two sentences of post 568 and then gave it a miss….
Ramble on as the boys from Zep used to say!
31 Aug 2010, 05:20 am
@whatever(whatever)-571:
As a self confessed teetotaler we will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he does not drink, but hell, he surely smoke some heavy stuff…
31 Aug 2010, 08:32 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-554: What happened was that you, ET & Nama thought you could be sly and insinuating about an alleged crime and were called, caught out and shown up for what you are – no better than those you despise…
31 Aug 2010, 08:35 am
@ET(ET)-522: why don’t you show the whole context of my question to you – a manipulative bitter racist can be black, white or any hue in between – you were shown up for what you are…
31 Aug 2010, 08:38 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-573: @Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-574:
Yawn…..
Come on mate….not another day of this….please?
31 Aug 2010, 08:39 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-534: “For your information HG has posted something very racists and was caught out with it not so long ago.” – whats that? Calling devious little Kiwis – hobbits, orcs, south sea islanders?
shame, your poor, precious, sensitive, antipodean soul…
twat!
31 Aug 2010, 08:40 am
@grant10(grant10)-575: Just wrapping up. Will be quiet unless there is a silly response…
31 Aug 2010, 08:43 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-577: much appreciated…..
31 Aug 2010, 09:01 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-573: insinuate what exactly? Shut up, you’re an exposed liar and charlatan!
31 Aug 2010, 09:04 am
oh fark…..seems the skirmish becoming a battle…
I am headed for a trench…..hopefully a bloody deep one!
31 Aug 2010, 09:07 am
why worry about nama1? isn’t he a young boy? as far as i can remember nama1 told everyone that he was a virgin ..lol, f knows why
31 Aug 2010, 09:08 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-579: the only exposed fibber is you with your halfarsed explanation of what you wrote… I have never seen so much back pedalling about trying to twist the translation of words you wrote yourself…
Why not just say to agile what you mean – instead of writing figuratively in the “vernacular” as you put it…
Some understand you perfectly – you gambled, you were called and you lost that poker hand buddy…
31 Aug 2010, 09:08 am
@I_support_BEES(suffer_guy)-581: Nama has more integrity and character in his small toe than you will ever muster in your whole bloody existence….plonker!
Outta here
31 Aug 2010, 09:09 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-582: oh fark
Wheres my staakdak….
31 Aug 2010, 09:12 am
staaldak
31 Aug 2010, 09:12 am
grant10, a insult from you will never upset me.. we all know you as being a ou malkop omie .. to prove my point = you have drinks with rosseneri – the female version of robert mugabe
31 Aug 2010, 09:14 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-582: umsunu wakho, translate that arsehole!
31 Aug 2010, 09:19 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-587: Point proven – you write insults in the “vernacular”… caught out again…
Why do you like sharing the same views as ET? Thought you were better than that – but I suppose its easy just to be an unquestioning follower…
31 Aug 2010, 09:19 am
@I_support_BEES(suffer_guy)-586: and Rossoneri has more brains, integrity and character than you will ever have in 10 lifetimes….
31 Aug 2010, 09:20 am
thank heavens i have a busy day
now really outta here
31 Aug 2010, 09:20 am
whatever you say grant … mr weskoppies 2010
31 Aug 2010, 09:27 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-588: arsehole…i’m done with you, carry on lying to save face…all those that know isiXhosa know exactly what i wrote, no matter what you say you remain a lying fraud and that’s what i will deal with evert time from now on!
You’re a lying, conniving fraud only interested in sowing division amongst bloggers! Hahaha you didn’t succeed mnqundu because agile knows the truth about what i said. Hahaha
31 Aug 2010, 09:31 am
@I_support_BEES(suffer_guy)-581: Hello Pietman. Welcome back.
31 Aug 2010, 09:32 am
if i was the NZ coach, i’d be sh!tting myself. If you need a cheating ref, a forward pass, a p!ss poor TMO to beat the boks without FDP, Bakkies, Brussouw, a off form : Matfield, J Smit, habana, spies … eish … Boks to beat NZ by 14+ in the RWC final
31 Aug 2010, 09:32 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-592: “sowing division amongst bloggers”, lol… You give me much credit – Machavellian HG, hehehehe
I just called it for what it was – if it wasn’t then why the upset, strife, raw nerves and then further insults in the “vernacular”?
Who told agile the truth? You? Lol…
Go follow your hero ET…
31 Aug 2010, 09:34 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-588: HG. You got caught out trying to make out something that was not true. Let it go for fark sakes. You’re making it worse for yourself.
I’ve always known you as a robust blogger, but you could have said you misunderstood instead of persisting with twisting what someone said to suit your rant. Damn.
31 Aug 2010, 09:40 am
arme pietman kry ook die skuld vir als
31 Aug 2010, 09:42 am
@I_support_BEES(suffer_guy)-597: As it should be. Pietman
31 Aug 2010, 09:47 am
i’m not pietman …
31 Aug 2010, 10:02 am
@I_support_BEES(suffer_guy)-599: Well after all the nic stealing of earlier in the year, and the blatant targeting of certain bloggers, together with Pietman’s dramatic exit, I get that you have to hide who you initially were here on Keo. It’s okay Pietman. We can handle it, if you missed a real blog instead of the back patting. Get out of the closet already. We know it’s you.
31 Aug 2010, 10:06 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-600: Did I miss something? I’m fairly new here (3months)….
31 Aug 2010, 10:09 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-596: Yes, Transie’s Mummy…
31 Aug 2010, 10:23 am
@Victor4CAPTAIN(UnbeataBULL)-601:
Yeah, there used to be a lot of bloggers who came here to talk about rugby. They started their own site when a number of other bloggers who are obsessed with race, turned every conversation into a race war. The ones obsessed with race hijacked a lot of threads, then play(ed) the race card, then accused the rugby talkers of being racist so they got fed up and left.
So really, a simple tale of every day South African folk.
31 Aug 2010, 10:26 am
@Victor4CAPTAIN(UnbeataBULL)-601: The blog has history, and it’s very ugly. Looks like the old dog has crawled back, but cannot do so under his own nic, as he declared that he will never blog here again. Hence the nic stealing (of only certain targeted bloggers etc).
31 Aug 2010, 10:29 am
@JockBok(JockBok)-603: Why don’t you ask Grant and Dawn and WPTID what was said to them, by your hero’s of RT. GBS blatantly posted on RT that he will shoot me. Don’t get it twisted. Keo is still going on, and new bloggers are still joining without the recruitment plan that RT uses.
There is a reason the RT blog is dead and all the rats are crawling back.
31 Aug 2010, 10:38 am
@JockBok(JockBok)-603: lol…it would be funnier if it wasn’t so damn true!
31 Aug 2010, 10:39 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-605:
My hero’s??? Oh, I see, you are starting to brow beat me now because I actually have a different opinion to you. Next post you’ll do a Transie and start to ridicule me, then you’ll call me a racist, hey?
I know, and don’t need to ask anyone, because I’ve been reading and contributing here longer than you, and usually just scroll past your poisonous rantings. But it’s hard to miss your M.O., so I do know how it goes.
Anyway, I’m just calling it as I see it and seeing as I actually have a life outside of the internet, I really don’t give a sook. I’ll keep on scrolling baby.
31 Aug 2010, 10:42 am
@Atreides(Atreides)-606:
Oh dear, hang about, Lilith will be along to shout at you in a minute or two… and if that doesn’t work, it’s the ridicule, then…… well, you get the idea
31 Aug 2010, 10:43 am
@JockBok(JockBok)-607: Jock. Why didn’t you leave too. If Keo was so unbearable. Why didn’t you also go with the crowd whose MO you so respect. Or are you back too.
31 Aug 2010, 10:46 am
@Atreides(Atreides)-606: So you can’t stand it here on Keo either.
Hahahaha. I just don’t get it. An alternative was created. Why did you stay?
31 Aug 2010, 10:48 am
@JockBok(JockBok)-608: Am I shouting? I’s just like to know that if you detest this blog so much, and agree with the thoughts and views of those that left. Why didn’t you join their ‘blog utopia’. You were given an out.
31 Aug 2010, 10:51 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-611:
You’ve now stepped across the stark raving mad line….straightjacket time!
31 Aug 2010, 10:53 am
@JockBok(JockBok)-607: hehehe when did i ever call you a racist? Ffs everyone wants me to play the proverbial race card
hahahaha i don’t have a ‘chip on my shoulder’ jockbok…
When i have a difference of opinion with you i doesn’t mean i think you’re a racist, it just mean i don’t agree with you…
31 Aug 2010, 10:53 am
You mention only dictators and tyrants, but just as in life itself, there is the opposite end of the spectrum. Not everything is equally good or bad, there are some ppl and acts that are more good or bad as compared to others.
Society is based on a set of rules to live by which are thought to be most fair so that ourselves, children and loved ones have a greater chance of survival and more pleasant lives.
These moral rules are one reason why humans typically lead a very different life to animals. These rules, which may not be perfect, create a more stable environment than would otherwise be possible.
If perfection is the only point at which morals should be applied, then they never would be, since perfection in this world is impossible as you have stated. Thus it is not perfection, whatever that might be, which determines morals, rather it is society who as a collective determine such morals however imperfect they might be and that is what is aspired to, more just and fair societies in which the tyrants and murderers do not hold sway.
By all means, let the courts judge, but judged by mankind he must be. If there is an ultimate judge which is a paragon of virtue existing outside of this world, then we will get judged there to regardless.
31 Aug 2010, 10:55 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-609:
Leave? How can I leave a website? Especially a public forum. I log out, then log in next time I’m on, if I see something I want to comment on, I post. The same goes for this site and several other groups I have a look at now and again. I chat on RT sometimes like I chat on here. Unfortunately, I have to work, and fortunately, I have a family and kids that take up my time, so I tend to only read some days, and post on others. Coming or going doesn’t come into it.
I do tend to laugh at your and certain others delusions of grandeur, but usually I avoid you and your type because I haven’t got the time to put up with your sh.it.
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-610: What is your point? Is this your place or a public forum?
31 Aug 2010, 11:00 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-611:
I don’t dislike this blog at all. I enjoy the articles and the news snippets as well as the comments. I get a good laugh here watching certain self important people criticise the journos and thinking they own the place, but I certainly won’t be dictated to by you or anyone like you and posting here doesn’t mean I agree with or support your agenda. Far from it, and I’ll continue to say what I want to whom and I when I want to. As I said, I’ll keep scrolling, you can do the same.
31 Aug 2010, 11:01 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-610: Who said anything about Keo? I was referring to the tatty, grubby dog-eared old race card in Sunny SA!
31 Aug 2010, 11:04 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-613:
Fair enough, I don’t have the time or inclination to flick back through your posts and prove you wrong, but can I remind you of your awb comments of a couple of weeks ago?
Anyway, all good clean fun. Keep it real bru, and as I say, it’s the internet, not real life. And there’s a few on here who could do with realising it.
31 Aug 2010, 11:11 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-610: Maybe we should reinstate the pass laws, and you can decide who is allowed to go where, when and how….?
Lol who died and gave you the right to question anyone else’s decisions or opinions?
31 Aug 2010, 11:12 am
@JockBok(JockBok)-618: oh don’t bother yourself i know how busy you are with your work and all…yes i asked if that particular thread was the ‘awb thread’, so how you translated that to myself calling you a racist is quite a leap
don’t worry jock, we’ll agree on some things and disagree on others ie quotas at age group level 
31 Aug 2010, 11:17 am
@Atreides(Atreides)-619: You agreed with Jock saying some people ruined the threads and your friends had to leave. The impression you are giving is that you miss those that left by their own choice, and certain people, read me, are to blame.
I never secretly e-mailed Roy to ban people, that was your friend’s MO. I never threatend to shoot people, that was your friends MO.
As far as I am concerned there is room for the whole world on this blog, no exclusions. All I was asking is that if you found it so unbearable here. Why didn’t you seek alternatives.
A fair question.
Your comment on pass laws. Was that put there to get a rise out of me? Just a little reminder of a past you may have prefered?
It’s 2010.
31 Aug 2010, 11:17 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-620:
Cool, can we have a hug now?
P.S. I’m on holiday
31 Aug 2010, 11:22 am
@Slartifartfast(Slartifartfast)-612: It was a question. If you cannot stand hot chillies in your food, surely you would order something else to eat.
@JockBok(JockBok)-615: What is my type Jock. I’m really curious to you definition.
@JockBok(JockBok)-616: I fully understand now. I’m a “type”, to you. Keep scrolling then. Glad that you are here to share your comments.
31 Aug 2010, 11:26 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-621:
Read again….
‘Yeah, there used to be a lot of bloggers who came here to talk about rugby. They started their own site when a number of other bloggers who are obsessed with race, turned every conversation into a race war. The ones obsessed with race hijacked a lot of threads, then play(ed) the race card, then accused the rugby talkers of being racist so they got fed up and left.’
A description of what, imho, happened when asked by a newish blogger. YOU appled the ‘hero’ and ‘friends’ tags turning the whole thing into your own little moral crusade, as you tend to do and are even doing on another thread with HG right now over something that doesn’t even concern you.
So please note, I have never missed an episode of Boston Legal and will never, EVER lose an argument to you or your type. And no, I don’t mean ‘non-white’, and no, I don’t feel the need to elaborate further. It’s patently obvious to anyone who has had the misfortune to read your supercilious ramblings.
31 Aug 2010, 11:28 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-623:
Well, rather than scrolling, I’m actually waiting on the kettle to boil and having sooooo much fun, I think I’ll keep showing you up as the nasty little piece of work that you are. It’s so easy
31 Aug 2010, 11:31 am
@JockBok(JockBok)-624: @JockBok(JockBok)-625:
Hey. I’m a “type” to you remember. Keep scrolling.
31 Aug 2010, 11:34 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-621: Lol….stop baiting
My ‘friend’…. I have no idea who you’re talking about. All I know is for a while, just about every thread on here was being turned into a racial argument, and it was always the same people instigating it. On balance, it’s now a lot better than it used to be.
Seems to me, in your book, if I dislike trolling and baiting, I must then automatically be a symapathiser with the more right wing elements? Your argument is riddled with fallacy, sorry.
31 Aug 2010, 11:37 am
@JockBok(JockBok)-625: Why dont just runoff to RT or even better migrate to your own country, England
31 Aug 2010, 11:37 am
@Atreides(Atreides)-627:
The ‘right wing’ types is also a fallacy.
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-626: Hmmm, kettle’s boiled. I might well do.
31 Aug 2010, 11:39 am
@Atreides(Atreides)-627:
So you’re happy at Keo. Congratulations.
31 Aug 2010, 11:44 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-628:
England???? I’m not from England. Is this a colonial dig or just plain racism because I’m white?
31 Aug 2010, 11:47 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-630: LOL
I have no feelings of ‘happiness’ or ‘unhappiness’ either way….it interests me, much like a TV show, or a chat with a friend…..don;t have particularly strong feelings about i one way or another. That’s what real life is for….
31 Aug 2010, 11:51 am
@JockBok(JockBok)-631: Effrica iss for bleck peeple! You whiteys must go!
And take your nice cars, and houses, and roads, and internet, and TV, and sewage, and infrastructure, and electricity, and running water, and medicine, and radio, and banks, and schools with you! Oh no, wait, on second thoughts, ok you can leave those. Thanks, we dig all that stuff. But you ******* whiteys must still **** off!
Bloody agent!
31 Aug 2010, 11:52 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-626:
Convenient. I didn’t expect you to keep up with me but this is a disappointing capitulation.
Oh well, a nice cup of five roses and a banana muffin awaits. Yummy…
31 Aug 2010, 11:54 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-613: But you and your hero ET always play that ace of spades…
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