What a sham
30 Aug 2010
MARK KEOHANE, in his weekly Business Day column, says Saturday’s match at Loftus wasn’t Test rugby.
The Sydney Morning Herald’s statisticians had the Springboks missing 40 tackles and the Wallabies 26. Scrum.com had the two teams missing ‘only’ 18 and official broadcaster of the Tri Nations Test in Pretoria, SuperSport, had the two teams slipping tackles 38 times.
A few weeks ago the All Blacks beat the Wallabies 20-10 in Christchurch. Four tackles were missed in the match. That was Test rugby. Saturday’s effort was touch rugby at its best, and in the opening quarter both teams should have worn yellow so cowardly was the attempt to make a tackle.
There can’t be a more embarrassing miss than Wallabies winger Drew Mitchell waving Juan Smith through while some of the Springboks’ first up tackles were clumsy attempts at a cuddle more than a tackle. Maybe there is a bit more love between these two sides given the willingness to massage each other’s attacking egos in an opening 20 minutes in which players from both teams mocked the ethos of Test rugby.
There are those who will think Saturday’s nine tries represented a thriller and one of the great games between these two countries, but I can’t count myself among them. I’d like to think of Test rugby as a contest where one guy runs hard and the other attempts to tackle hard. This was a sham.
Bok scrumhalf Francois Hougaard’s cross cover tackle on Adam Ashley-Cooper in the 59th minute was a quality, but standard, effort in Test rugby. On Saturday you would have thought Hougaard had bought the Mountain to Loftus such was the reaction of his teammates and the shock on the faces of the Aussies. My God, somebody had made a tackle.
Butch James, on for Morne Steyn in the last 20 minutes, then smashed into an Aussie on three thunderous occasions and that was the collective defensive mongrel of a side famed for its intensity on defence. If the four missed tackles in Christchurch characterized the evening, then in Pretoria it was the fact that only four good ones were made.
The attack from both sides was mesmerizing. Then again when you watch the Harlem Globetrotters play exhibition basketball matches, when the opposition make no attempt to stifle their attacking genius, the attack usually is, and it showed that South African players are as skilled as the Australians and even more intelligent.
The Aussies survive on a mystique that they are the most intellectual rugby side on the planet but they played some of the dumbest rugby in the last quarter, whereas South Africa, stereotyped as the dummies of the world order, produced variety and composure to win a match that should have ended 50-all to make the farce complete.
Australia led 21-7 after 10 minutes but all four tries were gifts of love and seemed like a celebration that neither was contending with a black wave of attack or defence. The charity was unprecedented and despite the early advantage the Australians never controlled the game because their set phase vulnerability would not allow for this luxury.
Wallabies hooker Saia Faingaa followed the same path of his predecessors who have bottled it in South Africa when confronted with the imposing lineout presence of Victor Matfield. Australia had lost their primary lineout jumper Nathan Sharpe by the time Faingaa’s hands turned to jelly, but you could have put King Kong in a yellow jersey on Saturday and Faingaa would have missed his target.
In the build-up to the Test I wrote that the only three certainties are death, paying taxes and a Wallabies defeat to the Boks at the Highveldt. I also reminded those despairing of the Boks that whenever a Bok team needs a pick me up look to the Wallabies in South Africa. If only their cricketers were as soft upstairs when they passed through customs at OR Tambo International Airport.
The Wallabies don’t win easily in South Africa and that is why there is so little to be read into this Bok win. Even Rudolf Straeuli’s chaotic tenure as Bok coach produced back to back wins in 2002 and 2003 against a bloody good Australian team in South Africa – an Aussie team that had won the World Cup in 1999 and would beat the All Blacks in the 2003 World Cup semi-final.
There was more intensity in the weekend’s Currie Cup fixtures than in the Test match in Pretoria and that says everything about an international fixture that should be remembered for its betrayal of the values of Test rugby.
364 Comments
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30 Aug 2010, 17:44 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-300: its been fun Miss Information..
catch you next time, and remember
watch out for them nasty little hobbitses…
30 Aug 2010, 17:48 pm
@poppa69(poppa69)-301: Cheers mascara maori
30 Aug 2010, 17:52 pm
It was a strange game, but for the most part, I actually quite enjoyed it. It was different and that’s bound to rattle the cages of the traditionalists.
Must surely have been the most effective use of bench players yet by PDV too. Good news, he’s learning.
30 Aug 2010, 18:01 pm
The only solution to the Bok woes is to stop supporting the Boks
After the All Blacks test i had enough
30 Aug 2010, 19:22 pm
As far as i am concerned the tri-nations has run it`s course and the tests are in danger of dare i say it becoming boring.Personally i got more pleasure out of the series win against the british lions than i did the boks winning the tri-nations.For me the world cup remains the No1 trophy and the tri-nations trophy comes a poor second as it can be won every year,i would rather the boks win the world cup every four years than win the tri-nations once a year for four years,but that is just me.Does anybody have any views they would like to share on this.
30 Aug 2010, 19:38 pm
Keo:
“Why do boks feel need to support bees 100%? there’s a 9 year old boy who doesn’t have a dad. A cop is dead, murdered&boks feel for bees!”
The Police didn’t follow protocol, and now one of their comrades is dead.
1) Why wasn’t Bees handcuffed?
2) Why wasn’t Bees given the breathalyzer test?
3) Where were the other 2 patrolling police officers?
4) 30 minutes ater the incident, Bees’ credit card was used to buy McDonalds.
5) Why would you climb into a car with a 120Kg man suspected of drunk driving? With no backup and no patrol vehicle following.
6) They claim the other two policeman were too traumatized to explain what happened, yet they arrived after the paramedics. It seems they were surprized and needed to get their story straightened out.
It seems to me that the policemen were trying to hijack Bees Roux, they already stole his credit card, and were expecting Mohale to do the rest of the job, and got a nasty surprize.
If Bees Roux was found in the early hours of Friday Morning the 27th, dead in a ditch along the N1, the very same police would have been thousands richer, and none of those blacks would be protesting against “racially motivated murder”, their protest is ironically racist.
Don’t be so surprized, we all know how corrupt South Africa’s police are and how crime-friendly our government is. Hell, even the Police commissioner himself is the most corrupt of the lot, the intelligence minister’s wife is smuggling cocaine in from Columbia and journalists are being arrested for investigations not even published yet, and the deputy-president-to-be is calling for the mass slaughter of all Afrikaners and farmers. (Farmers, whom by the way feed 1500 mouths per farmer in this country. Kill 1 farmer and guess what happens to production and pricing.)
30 Aug 2010, 19:45 pm
There was more intensity in the weekend’s Currie Cup fixtures than in the Test match in Pretoria and that says everything about an international fixture that should be remembered for its betrayal of the values of Test rugby.???
I have only see this now. What a joke of an article!! Great rugby. On which planet does he live?
30 Aug 2010, 20:00 pm
The Boks finally won and here you go peeing on the party.Can’t enjoy a good game, can you Keo?
30 Aug 2010, 20:06 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-306:
Strange, ANC-supporters like Mighty Horua are throwing their toys out the cot.
Last year city officials decided to change a street name in Durban.
It was formerly named after Edwin Swales. A WWII major (South African born) and pilot who was awarded the Victoria Cross for his bravery behind enemy lines and sacrificing his life for his teammates.
They renamed the street to Solomon Mahlangu. A struggle so-called hero.
What did Solomaon Mahlangu do to be honoured?
During the Struggle, he walkied into a store house in Natal, and shot (planned murder) two elderly white men whom he had nothing to do with. AND now he’s a hero.
It seems to me Achilles was born before his time. The question that always vexed him was:
Will his name be remembered after he was long gone?
And, How will it be remembered?
The easy solution was if he hadn’t been born before his time, joined the ANC, and killed innocent people at random of whom he knew nothing, and VOILA! You’re a hero. We will start naming some geography after you and publishing your account in the constant fight against phantom oppression.
30 Aug 2010, 20:21 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-306:
good post
30 Aug 2010, 20:26 pm
@dquinn25(dquinn25)-310:
Thanks. People are so “emotional”, they’re just ready to do what they condemned Bees for….
30 Aug 2010, 20:35 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-309: certainly doesn’t make sense. But equally, neither did apartheid boet. I’m not going to sit here and debate the merits with you, because I don’t have the answers. Suffice to say, we live in a crazy $#@%ed up land. Whatever happened to Bees, I hope justice prevails.
30 Aug 2010, 20:38 pm
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-312:
Natuurlik. I we all agree mostly. And we’ll just have to wait and see.
30 Aug 2010, 20:38 pm
@Zandberg Jansen(Zandberg Jansen)-307: don’t read too much into it. Keo has created for himself a niche of journalistic sensationalism. It’s a means of attracting readers I suspect. There are shades of Malema in there somewhere.
30 Aug 2010, 20:46 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-313: if he’s innocent I feel for the man. If not so be it. I’ve witnessed bullying of the kind before and it shocked and saddened. Equally, I’ve witnessed manipulated fabrications and they’re the same. Lets see what the law turns up. I’m sure he’ll invest in good legal support, who will squeeze the truth out of the system much like the recent Selebe case.
30 Aug 2010, 20:51 pm
Boks should stay out of this sad scenario
lending support one way or the other is one poorly judged mistake.
Maybe truth never comes out like who killed JFK, Bees should not have been soused up in the wrong part of town the early morning before his mates were playing a CC game, wrong place wrong time, if destiny gonna seek you out better you don,t make it any easier for her.
30 Aug 2010, 20:51 pm
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-315:
Ja, 100% boet. Looks like they also tried hard to make them struggle for financial support with that rediculous bail.
ET murderers admitted to hacking him to death, LIED about their nationality, and got R5000 bail together.
30 Aug 2010, 21:22 pm
What a load of sanctimonious tripe, Keo. What would make you happier, a bump and grind 9-6 win? What-a-sham your journalism is becoming. I would rather see 9 tries and more “touch rugby” any day, and that is not because I’m ignorant of the finer nuances of the game! Celebrate the win FFS!
30 Aug 2010, 21:43 pm
I have no idea how anyone can support something like that.
30 Aug 2010, 21:49 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-309: Further info for you on street re-naming: They wish to change Kingsway Rd, that runs thru Amanzimtoti and Warner Beach (south of Durban) to Andrew Zondo who blew up part of a shopping centre in Toti killing dozens of people. Many of the victims and their families still live in the area. How is that for sick! Unfortunately there are a lot of sick people in high positions in this country.
30 Aug 2010, 21:55 pm
@julz(julz)-320:
Yes, Ernst van Dyk, South African wheel chair marathon champion, and world champion lost his legs in such a bombing.
Such a bombing that is considered heroic by the ANC.
30 Aug 2010, 21:57 pm
@julz(julz)-320:
The bombing that got Ernst was outside a sports stadium (Ellis if I remember corrctly) and two little girls lost their life.
The bomb was planted under a car, if I remember the news that day correctly.
30 Aug 2010, 22:12 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-321:
My bad, it wasn’t Ernst van Dyk, it was some other guy……
30 Aug 2010, 22:32 pm
Bees, jou bees!
30 Aug 2010, 22:33 pm
@Sheriff(Sheriff)-324: F OFF!
31 Aug 2010, 00:41 am
Well said Keo, that game was a joke.
Take the win, but certainly not a “Test” match in my books!!
As for bees…….maybe we need to let the law and justice take it’s course??……..hopefully nothing is rigged, no-one is bribed, no prejudices surface and the truth will come out…….yeah right!
31 Aug 2010, 00:58 am
Why is Keo.co.za being such a b*tch about Saturdays Test?
31 Aug 2010, 04:14 am
keo – muppet – Juan’s hand off of Mitchell was *perfectly* timed. Try enjoy next time
31 Aug 2010, 04:52 am
Jeez Keo, instead of appluading tejh man for putting the Boks on teh steps to teh right game plan, you criticise the hell out of him.
You know what? I, for once ENJOYED us not gi9ving teh ball to them to try and get through us. I LIKED US having a bash for chanage. Did it mean we were vulnerable on turnovers? YES!!! But that is to be expected as our fluency on attack was OPFCOURSE going to be **** because WE HAVE NOT DONE ANY ATTACKING IN THREE YEARS!!!!
But the fact that we won anyway while playing badly means that we were finally swimming WITH the current, instead of against it. As opposed to playing the game of our lives and losing anyway, like in Soweto. This should be viewed as a massively positive step!!
Before, when Snor advocated running from all parts of the park, it was a) too much, and b) the rules at the time did not justify such running rugby (we were swimming against the current then). But the rules have chamged, and the rugby must change with it. Please note I am NOT advocating helter skelter rugby- I am adovocating a ball in hand, possession based, STRUCTURED approach.
Thank God we finally have!! And after only four hidings!!
31 Aug 2010, 05:05 am
**** typing, but I am gatvol of Keo not trying to guide our coach in the right direction, and instead just looking for sensationalist headlines.
31 Aug 2010, 05:27 am
@SjamBok(SjamBok)-330:
Cr ap typing? I think you have send Tackles straight to the edge with some of your spelling…
31 Aug 2010, 05:47 am
Better defence has made soccer only “Highlights” watchable. Hope it doesn’t do the same to rugby with only one try a match. I enjoyed Saturdays game and was entertained for the full 80 mins.
31 Aug 2010, 05:48 am
These journos are pretty shite. Never happy only when Problems win.
That was not test rugby, so what is test rugby doos. Forward play and driving around the rucks. Piss off
Both teams gave it all, both teams needed the win and played to score tries. Thank-you it was enjoyable.
31 Aug 2010, 06:23 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-333: I agree. They seem to be hell bent on discrediting the Bok team and coaches and refuse to pass any compliments. Die res van die tyd hang hulle WP onderrokke uit.
With the tri nations already decided this test would have been different from the start i.e. less physical. It doesn’t mean that both teams did not badly want to win this one.
The Boks showed a lot of character to come back and the intent they showed for certain periods of time was good to see. Especially the lead up to Spies’s try was excellent.
31 Aug 2010, 07:56 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-306: Let me have a shot at this.
The Police didn’t follow protocol, and now one of their comrades is dead.
1) Why wasn’t Bees handcuffed?
Law of Criminal Procedure dictates that a suspect does not need to have cuffs slapped on him, he/she merely needs to be ubder ‘physical control” of the arresting officer who needs to make it clear that an arest is performed. Handcuffs are considered humiliating and only used as a last resort by police officers. He might have made a udgement call which turned out bad.
2) Why wasn’t Bees given the breathalyzer test?
Stark reality is that police are ill-equiped. In all likelihood they simply did not have one. They might have been on the way to have one performed by a medical examiner.
3) Where were the other 2 patrolling police officers?
I dont know, guess we will find out soon enough.
4) 30 minutes ater the incident, Bees’ credit card was used to buy McDonalds.
I fail to see how that impacts on the case at hand. Bees could have lost it at any point during the night, to be used by any of a number of people.
5) Why would you climb into a car with a 120Kg man suspected of drunk driving? With no backup and no patrol vehicle following.
Because its what you do for a living and you dont expect to get beaten to death. Only consider that he might have been wanting to give Bees a break and transport hm home safely.
6) They claim the other two policeman were too traumatized to explain what happened, yet they arrived after the paramedics. It seems they were surprized and needed to get their story straightened out.
Maybe. Or maybe you are jumping to conclusion, pre-judging the matter.
It seems to me that the policemen were trying to hijack Bees Roux, they already stole his credit card, and were expecting Mohale to do the rest of the job, and got a nasty surprize.
Or they were trying to take a drunk driver home so that he does not danger his own life or the lives of others on the road.
If Bees Roux was found in the early hours of Friday Morning the 27th, dead in a ditch along the N1, the very same police would have been thousands richer, and none of those blacks would be protesting against “racially motivated murder”, their protest is ironically racist.
On the other hand. If Bees Roux had crashed into pedestrians in his drunken state, killing 5 or 6, we all would have bemoaned the lack of law enforcement on our roads.
Don’t be so surprized, we all know how corrupt South Africa’s police are and how crime-friendly our government is. Hell, even the Police commissioner himself is the most corrupt of the lot, the intelligence minister’s wife is smuggling cocaine in from Columbia and journalists are being arrested for investigations not even published yet, and the deputy-president-to-be is calling for the mass slaughter of all Afrikaners and farmers. (Farmers, whom by the way feed 1500 mouths per farmer in this country. Kill 1 farmer and guess what happens to production and pricing.)
I fail to see how the above relates to Bees’ case. Remember that he beat the cop up, stopped the assualt when his vehicle started rolling and ran to his car in order to pull up the hand brake, then returned to the already badly beaten victim and finished him off.
31 Aug 2010, 08:00 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-335:
No mate, with all your preaching, he did not beat up a cop…….he is alleged to have beaten up/killed a cop. Inocent until proven guilty………nice try though!
31 Aug 2010, 08:13 am
@whatever(whatever)-336: The part where he beats up a cop is the only thing that has been verified by an independent witness, thus not Bees or one of the cops. Also, I wrote the post in response to Agile’s which does not deny the assault having taken place.
31 Aug 2010, 08:28 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-306: Give that man a BELLS
31 Aug 2010, 08:53 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-335:
As a police reservist who has been in similar situations before, let me have a shot at it as well:
“1) Why wasn’t Bees handcuffed?”
I agree with Taahirah, you don’t always handcuff the suspect. The police have a duty to always maintain the dignity of suspects, therefore, for example, we always try to search suspects out of sight of the public. The handcuffs are used to restrain physically threatening suspects, and it is a judgment call. Sometimes we rather use cable ties instead.
“2) Why wasn’t Bees given the breathalyzer test?”
For one of three reasons: one, they weren’t equipped with mobile breathalyzers; two, there are two different offences – (1) being over the legal blood alcohol level while driving and (2) being intoxicated while driving. You can still be arrested and convicted for drunk driving even if you’re blood alcohol level is not taken, if there is enough external evidence of drunkenness, e.g. bloodshot eyes, slurring, lack of coordination, smelling of alcohol etc; three – they decided that there is too much paperwork involved in processing a drunk driving arrest (trust me, there is a lot of admin involved) and decided to give Bees Roux a break by letting him go and escorting him home.
“3) Where were the other 2 patrolling police officers?”
We have often had situations where we’ve stopped drunken drivers who then begged for mercy because a conviction would ruin their careers (think students). I imagine a professional rugby player would have done similarly. In such situations, depending on the circumstances, a judgment call is made and often it is decided to drive the person to his or her home, i.e. one of the policemen gets into the suspect’s car and drives it to his/her home. This is backed up by the fact that the car was travelling towards Equestria (where Bees lives) and not the direction of the Brooklyn or Sunnyside police stations. The police car will in almost all cases follow (because obviously the policeman will need to be picked up once he’s dropped off the suspect). Who knows what happened here, they might have taken a wrong turn and lost sight of Bees’s car. I suppose we’ll find out soon.
“4) 30 minutes ater the incident, Bees’ credit card was used to buy McDonalds.”
Irrelevant. A credit card transaction is often only processed after the purchase, sometimes even days. As Taahirah pointed out, it could also have been lost by Bees in his drunkenness and used by someone else.
“5) Why would you climb into a car with a 120Kg man suspected of drunk driving? With no backup and no patrol vehicle following.”
As stated earlier, I believe they were trying to take him home. This is backed up by the facts that (1) Bees was not handcuffed, (2) that the policeman was driving his car and (3) that they were driving in the direction of Equestria, where Bees lives, and not in the direction of the police stations. The patrol car was likely following, as I said earlier they might have taken a wrong turn.
“6) They claim the other two policeman were too traumatized to explain what happened, yet they arrived after the paramedics. It seems they were surprised and needed to get their story straightened out.”
I agree with Taahirah, I think you are jumping to conclusions. I imagine I would be extremely traumatised if one of my colleagues had just been beaten to death – irrespective the circumstances. I can refer you to numerous scholarly articles on shock and its effects, if you like.
“It seems to me that the policemen were trying to hijack Bees Roux, they already stole his credit card, and were expecting Mohale to do the rest of the job, and got a nasty surprize.
Or they were trying to take a drunk driver home so that he does not danger his own life or the lives of others on the road.”
I think the first claim of yours constitutes defamation without any sort of proof – baseless allegations. I believe your second possibility is likely what happened.
“If Bees Roux was found in the early hours of Friday Morning the 27th, dead in a ditch along the N1, the very same police would have been thousands richer, and none of those blacks would be protesting against “racially motivated murder”, their protest is ironically racist.
On the other hand. If Bees Roux had crashed into pedestrians in his drunken state, killing 5 or 6, we all would have bemoaned the lack of law enforcement on our roads.”
Please spare us the sensationalist claptrap. There is no need to jump to conclusions until we have heard more. The investigating officer and the magistrate at the bail hearing have already stated that there are irregularities involved here. Let us wait for justice to do its course, I am sure the truth will emerge. Until then, inflammatory emotional posts will help no-one.
31 Aug 2010, 08:54 am
@svs(svs)-328: Agreed!!!
31 Aug 2010, 09:02 am
funny thing is when the kiwis and ozzies play out a game like this they celebrate it as rugby at its purest and as an example of how the game should be played!
31 Aug 2010, 09:17 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-339: I’ve said from the start, we should wait and see what the investigations turn up. The media will run ANYTHING they feel will sell papers….
31 Aug 2010, 09:49 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-339: This is all mere speculation. Lets wait to see what comes out of the police investigation.
If Bees did infact kill the officer because he was drunk, he needs to get punished to the full extent of the law. If he was being hi-jacked and acted in self defence- I say good on you Bees.
These are all facts we dont have at our disposal, so getting into arguments over speculations are very unfair towards both Bees and the families of the deceased. I did however not like the threatening statements made the the deceased’s brother in court, saying that he’ll get Bees’ mother….
Time will tell…….
31 Aug 2010, 12:21 pm
Had we won a hard fought battle with a 15 – 6 win with one try, Keo would have said that we have lost our attacking flair
I for one really enjoyed the game
31 Aug 2010, 17:08 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-335:
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-339:
OK, a patrol was in the neighborhood, it was apparently or should be more than one policeman. There were apparently 3 policeman.
Next, did they find Bees behind the wheel, or in the passenger seat?
If he was in the passenger seat, what was the problem?
If he was behind the wheel, how did they force him into the passenger seat?
Are you telling me the officer flashed his lights, ran his siren, pulled Bees off, peered into the car, had a chat (or try to), left his vehicle and partners, asked Bees to move over to the passenger seat and then merrily proceded to climb into a car with a 120Kg drunk man to drive him to his home? What would he do when he got there?
Wasn’t the policeman rather trying to take his to the police station.
Could it be that the policeman told him that he is taking him home, and didnt want an arguement that he was actually en route to the station, and when Bees didn’t recognize the route as leading home, he jumped to the conclusion that he was being hijacked? (they didn’t even get a few blocks far, by the looks of things).
If Bees is as mean as some think and mistrusting of black men, then it isn’t likely that Bees would allow the policeman to climb into his car without any further ado anyway.
Furthermore, Taahira says:
” If Bees Roux had crashed into pedestrians in his drunken state, killing 5 or 6, we all would have bemoaned the lack of law enforcement on our roads”
I DO bemoan the lack of law enforcement in every aspect.How many hundreds of lives have already been destroyed by these bungling, incompetent policemen?\
It’s the exact same effect. The fact is, the police didnt do what they should have done, either they dont know protocol or are incapable of executing it. I dont feel sorry for Bees, and I dont feel sorry for the policeman. The only person I feel sorry for is the 9-year old kid: to be brought into a family like that is tough.
Lastly, WP_Forever says as a reservist, that he too would be too traumatized to speak if his college was beaten to death.
But apparently they only pitched up after the paramedics. Furthermore, if that’s the way you feel, I respect that. I would NOT be too traumatized to speak. I’d be pissed off and tell them exactly what happen, and paint Bees as black as I possibly could.
The credit card could very well have been stolen at the police station after the arrest by the police and used then. How traumatized is that?
So a college of yours just got beaten to death. Let’s go get some Mickey D’s his stolen money.
Yeah, most of this is speculation, I’m entitled to it.
31 Aug 2010, 17:59 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-335:
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-339:
Anyway, very good responses by both of you. Thank you.
31 Aug 2010, 18:08 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-345: all that energy about a case you have no connection with?
31 Aug 2010, 18:09 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-347:
It was quick and painless.
31 Aug 2010, 18:11 pm
But there is, somehow, probably more bad than good to be doen by bloggers commenting and throwing speculation around.
Perhaps we should just keep this to kitchen talk?
What do you say?
31 Aug 2010, 18:12 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-347:
349 is for you Transie…
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