Overplayed seniors soldier on
31 Aug 2010
Danie Rossouw is back in the starting line-up for the Boks’ final clash against the Wallabies while Butch James is ruled out.
Lock Flip van der Merwe failed to train on Monday which has prompted coach Peter de Villiers to start Rossouw at lock. Gio Aplon comes onto the bench to replace James, who has failed to recover from a shoulder injury, and Frans Steyn will cover flyhalf should Morne Steyn break down in Saturday’s Test.
Prop Jannie du Plessis didn’t train on Monday and Tuesday, but according to the Bok medical team, he should be alright by Thursday.
De Villiers has stuck with the majority of his first-choice line-up even though the Tri-Nations title has already been won by the All Blacks. He’s mentioned the need for men like John Smit, Victor Matfield and Bryan Habana to rest, but feels they still have to produce one big performance before they can enjoy a break.
The plan is to send the contracted players on a four-week conditioning camp after the Tri-Nations and then rest the big names over the end-of-year tour. Vice-captain Matfield said this plan is yet to be finalised, but has stressed the importance of the last Tri-Nations Test.
‘It’s a very important game. We have a trophy to win [the Mandela Plate] but we are also building towards the 2011 World Cup,’ Matfield said. ‘The last 60 minutes [at Loftus Versfeld] were a start and we have to build on that confidence.’
De Villiers said players like Beast Mtawarirra and Bismarck du Plessis weren’t considered for this match, because he’d rather the Sharks pair enjoyed maximum playing time in the Currie Cup than languish on the Bok bench. Both players will join the Boks for the planned conditioning camp and are likely to occupy starting roles on the Grand Slam tour.
‘I will play my best team on that tour,’ De Villiers said when asked about the risk of taking a weakened side north in November. ‘All you guys [the media] have been telling me that John Smit is not good enough, Victor is not good enough and Bryan is not good enough, so maybe I’m going to start listening to you,’ he chirped sarcastically.
The Bok coach also elaborated on his statement on Monday when he said ‘If you’re not for us, you’re against us.’ De Villiers made the statement in response to criticism after South Africa’s first win in the Tri-Nations, which he deemed unfair. De Villiers said the criticism no longer matters.
‘The “us” [in the statement] says everything. It’s about us. We are close and are open to each other, and when we fight [amongst each other] it’s to get the best out of each other. If we disagree about certain things, we agree to disagree. When we leave the team room, we leave it in a unified way.’
Matfield remains optimistic about Saturday, although he admits there are areas where the Boks can improve. The defence conceded four tries in the first half at Loftus, and it’s fair to say a better team would have put the Boks away after such an impressive start.
‘There is always room for improvement. The breakdown was a concern after the overseas trip, and I think it was good on Saturday. That goes to show it’s a team effort [rather than an individual thing]. The scrums have also been a good launching point and the lineouts have improved too.’
Springboks – 15 Frans Steyn, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Jaque Fourie, 12 Jean de Villiers, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Morne Steyn, 9 Francois Hougaard, 8 Pierre Spies, 7 Juan Smith, 6 Schalk Burger, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Danie Rossouw, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 John Smit (c), 1 Gurthro Steenkamp.
Subs: 16 Chiliboy Ralepelle, 17 CJ van der Linde, 18 Flip van der Merwe, 19 Ryan Kankowski, 20 Ricky Januarie, 21 Juan de Jongh, 22 Gio Aplon.
By Jon Cardinelli in Bloemfontein
Follow SA Rugby mag on Twitter
373 Comments
31 Aug 2010, 12:32 pm
Tired Dragons!
31 Aug 2010, 12:33 pm
Got it!
31 Aug 2010, 12:34 pm
Who will cover 10?
Frans Steyn?
Aplon?
31 Aug 2010, 12:34 pm
Go Pakslae!!!
31 Aug 2010, 12:36 pm
Frans ……………………………………………how badly does a player have to play, to get a rest?
31 Aug 2010, 12:37 pm
Should be ‘overplayed and out of form seniors’.
31 Aug 2010, 12:40 pm
ricky should enjoy his last moments in the green and gold… even if it is a green and gold tracksuit
not great cover at 10… i suppose frans will go to 10 and gio to 15
31 Aug 2010, 12:40 pm
No surprizes with this team at all.
31 Aug 2010, 12:41 pm
habana .. luckiest player in the world … shocking!!
31 Aug 2010, 12:41 pm
This is the bench that I was hoping for last week. Great that Aplon and de Jongh get place on the bench. I hope they both get a run in the 2nd half.
31 Aug 2010, 12:41 pm
@puff(puff)-3: If Muir had to make that call, it would be Spies!
Frans for Morne, Gio for Frans would be the logical choice
JdJ for centre & wing cover
and most important Ricky for the pie man
31 Aug 2010, 12:42 pm
Donkey DeVilliers in the side – WTF?
31 Aug 2010, 12:42 pm
Still a very strong team. Boks looking good.
31 Aug 2010, 12:44 pm
Ausies gonna get klapped…again!
31 Aug 2010, 12:44 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-12: You mean JDV??
31 Aug 2010, 12:45 pm
Butch James out due to a sore left t.i.t.t.y…..how quaint!
31 Aug 2010, 12:45 pm
@Staal(Staal)-14: By an even bigger score this time.
31 Aug 2010, 12:45 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-12: who would you rather have there?
31 Aug 2010, 12:46 pm
Ag lets get this game out of the way and bring on the young guns for the EOYT.
31 Aug 2010, 12:46 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-5: there’s no limit to how kak frans can be for the Boks…just his presence on the field/his aura infiltrates the pysche of the opposition! The aussie’s started well and raced to a 20 pt score but when the aura hit them, they only score 3 pts in the 2nd stanza!
Can’t f*ck with the ‘aura’ broer
31 Aug 2010, 12:47 pm
Frans at 10.
Surest way for PDV to have a sound excuse to keep him out the squad.
31 Aug 2010, 12:49 pm
@puff(puff)-21: It wont come to that.
31 Aug 2010, 12:49 pm
@Tisme(Tisme)-18: JdJ
31 Aug 2010, 12:53 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-23: JDV had a great game on Saturday. He is the best 12 we have. Jdj is a close second.
31 Aug 2010, 12:56 pm
@puff(puff)-21: @iori Yagami(iori Yagami)-22:
It just may. With Butch not available. Frans has the shoe in at 10 behind Morne.
31 Aug 2010, 12:59 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-20:
It seems as though Frans is being forced to play, even if he is NOT up to it.
On NZ TV, last weekend, we had the Aussie commentary on the Test. Their Commentators, said that Berbizer, Steyns French Club Coach, had said he)was not fit enough to play International Rugby at the moment.
I think his performance showed Berbizer to be correct. Aura or no Aura.
31 Aug 2010, 13:00 pm
This really is our best available team. Strange how, if we win on Saturday, all that stands between the Boks and a reasonable season is that one missed tackle by Smit.
Of course everyone (myself included) expected 1 win in NZ and a win in Brisbane, and rightly so. But Divvy might well argue that all things considered, our season wasn’t so much bad as it was average.
Anyway, I still think he and his two stooges are clueless from a coaching perspective. But I also think that if our star players are rested for the remainder of the year, they will be 50% better come 2011.
31 Aug 2010, 13:02 pm
I would have gone for:
15. F. Steyn
14. JP.Pieterson
13. J. de Jongh
12. J. Fourie
11. G. Aplon
10. M. Steyn
9. F. Hougaardt
8. R. Kankowski
7. J. Smith
6. S. Burger
5. F. Van der Merwe
4. D. Rossow
3. J. Du Plessis
2. B. Du plessis
1. T. Mtwarira
16. J. Smit
17. G. Steenkamp
18. V. Matfield
19. P. Spies
20. J. Vermaak
21. P. Lambie
22. J. De Villiers
31 Aug 2010, 13:03 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-23: Patience, he will get there….. I mean how fkn long did Hougardt have to wait? But IMO I would start with Jean with Fourie, they are the best combo we have at the mo!
31 Aug 2010, 13:04 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-28: you a shark right
31 Aug 2010, 13:05 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-20:
31 Aug 2010, 13:08 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-23: When you of all people replace a Province centre with another Province centre, shows you how k*k the rest of the bunch are.
31 Aug 2010, 13:09 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-28: Fourie at inside centre? Nice to see someone leaving Smittie out (but Shark for a Shark so you keep your membership to the Sharks supporters club yes?
)
Have to disagree on Kanko though. He isn’t at his best.
Excellent pick with Vermaak on the bench. If Jano was playing in a winning team he would’ve had a look-in a while ago already. His kicking game is great. En hy maak die oond vinning skoon.
31 Aug 2010, 13:12 pm
Very glad he’s playing not-match-fit Frans – he needs time in this position, not the chopping and changing he has been suubjected to; Ricky Januarie has been immovable but real talent like Frans and Ruan have been given so much of a runaround that both talents have been squandered.
Steyn has got class – it will come out; so too Habana – just a matter of time – dropping him for this test makes no sense, notwithstanding his crazy-bad season (that is not too say he should feel he’s untouchable, but he’s a national treasure and it’s only a matter of time, and rest, before he gets his game back – and with a vengeance).
Has anyone got Steyn’s match-kicking conversion rate – I’ll bet you now it’s the highest in the game; I don’t think I’ve ever seen him miss.
31 Aug 2010, 13:13 pm
How can we support the BOKS who have a Moron for a coach?
I dont
31 Aug 2010, 13:17 pm
No hey, of course, but the selection is not based on that. I know its a sharks front row, but in my opinion its the best front row we have. And Lambie as back up to morne will be a great oppertunity for the youngster. Kanko at 8, because he is in great form, and spies not so much, he needs to rest. Other than that its JP And John, that are sharks in that match 22 of mine.
31 Aug 2010, 13:18 pm
i thought pdv called wynand to slot in flyhalf as cover for morne! You know mos how we always hear that carter learnt his trade at 12 while serving his apprenticeship to mehrtens…
31 Aug 2010, 13:18 pm
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami)-17: Give that man a BELLS!
31 Aug 2010, 13:21 pm
@Boksarenumber4(Boksarenumber1)-35: Through thick and thin boet. Vote with your feet and the message will get through. I have a certain admiration for the Bulls/Bok fans who didn’t pitch at Loftus.
31 Aug 2010, 13:23 pm
Jaque Fourie is a great player and i feel that we are wasting him at 13. So i slotted him in at 12 to get rid of the out of form De Villiers to the bench, and make space for the talented De Jongh, And i think Jaque will bring the best out in Him.
Ok maybe Kanko is not in such great form but neither is Spies, rest him and give kanko some game time.
31 Aug 2010, 13:24 pm
@Victor4CAPTAIN(UnbeataBULL)-38: Yeah!!
31 Aug 2010, 13:25 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-40: Out of form De Villiers?? Seriously?
31 Aug 2010, 13:26 pm
so habana is now the weakest bok on the park …
31 Aug 2010, 13:27 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-28: Well played sir!
31 Aug 2010, 13:30 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-40: Want to see the true JF and JdV? Play them next to Carter, Gitts or Cooper.
31 Aug 2010, 13:31 pm
Just have to love our coaching team.
31 Aug 2010, 13:32 pm
“…out of form De Villiers…” some interesting comments flying around here.
31 Aug 2010, 13:35 pm
Why is Spies still in the Bok team? The guy has run about 10m with the ball in the last 5 tests?
Maybe I’m missing something here.
31 Aug 2010, 13:35 pm
IORI. Seriously what has Jean de Villiers done in the last four tests. Yes he was wasted at 14 bt he is not doing much at 12 either. And i think it was Jean that kept Fourie from performing. Getting Fourie closer to the action, will certainly make a deference. Im not saying Jean is a **** player, he is just playing ****!!!
31 Aug 2010, 13:36 pm
we’re going to lose this one. the ausies are more motivated.
31 Aug 2010, 13:36 pm
@I_support_BEES(suffer_guy)-43: Jys soos n brommer op a drol! Shut up!
31 Aug 2010, 13:38 pm
habana captain of the quota XV
31 Aug 2010, 13:39 pm
@Andre_WP(Andre_WP)-46: why?
31 Aug 2010, 13:41 pm
@BlueBlood(BlueBlood)-48: Don’t worry about it…Schalla and Juan will make his tackles for him.
31 Aug 2010, 13:41 pm
@I_support_BEES(suffer_guy)-52: so do you stand under the bees to support it or do you lift it’s hind legs and hold onto it like a kruiwa?
31 Aug 2010, 13:42 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-40: Out of form? LOL
I would rather drop Jacque Fourie, and replace him with Juan de Jongh. The combo is tried and tested, however. Jf and JdV that is. They did their part on Saturday. MS attacked the line better and that created opportunities for the centres. Leave them just the way they are. JdJ will add some spark in the last 20-30, and he can slot in at 12 or 13. I’m glad that Meisiekind is out of the mix. JdJ has got Brian O’Driscoll written all over him!!!!!
31 Aug 2010, 13:43 pm
Another wasted opportunity for Pdivvy to get some fresh legs/youngsters on the park!
31 Aug 2010, 13:44 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-51: Sit hy op jou?
31 Aug 2010, 13:45 pm
@Victor4CAPTAIN(UnbeataBULL)-58: sou jy se n brommer sit of staan op n drol?
31 Aug 2010, 13:45 pm
Yes maybe Jean and Jeaque will do better next to a carter…But then you saying Morne is not good enough. Look im not a big fan of morne, but he is playing some good rugby, and he should be combining perfectly with J&J. But remember who was at 10 when they were at their best?? Butch. I know alot of u dnt like Butch, but he is our most expereinced 10 ever, and in general attacking and defensive play beter than Morne. But will never beat Morne’s boot tho. Just my opinion!!
31 Aug 2010, 13:47 pm
Why didnt John Smit say anything in this post? Only Victor and Pdivvy
31 Aug 2010, 13:47 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-57: They will be played in the games that doesn’t matter much. EOYT. For now, the real Springboks will do duty.
One positive I can take out of it is that this team had gone through the good (2009) and the bad(2010) together, and that will make them only stronger mentally. I am not too concerned. After the CC, the Boks will be rested and conditioned. They will use the S14 to get matchfit, and voila, RWC trophy staying in SA. I hope thats the plan!!
31 Aug 2010, 13:49 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-49: Did you watch the game on Saturday?? He was excellent in his straight running and gained valuable go forward ball thus putting his forwards on the front foot. He also found gaps in the Aussie defence and was able to penetrate it although he couldnt always get the offload to the man….this will come the more Jean and Jaque play together. Moving Jaque to 12 is crazy man. Jean de Villiers organisation of defence is also very good and is seldom unseen.
31 Aug 2010, 13:51 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-60: MS is one eye in the land of the blind. I’ll wait patiently for Lambie and Jantjies to come thru.
31 Aug 2010, 13:51 pm
The breakdown was a concern after the overseas trip, and I think it was good on Saturday. That goes to show it’s a team effort [rather than an individual thing].
Right.
31 Aug 2010, 13:54 pm
@Victor4CAPTAIN(UnbeataBULL)-62: This game doesnt matter or does it? You right let them defend the honour of Nelson Mandela!
31 Aug 2010, 13:56 pm
@Victor4CAPTAIN(UnbeataBULL)-62: ‘I will play my best team on that tour,’ De Villiers said when asked about the risk of taking a weakened side north in November.
31 Aug 2010, 13:57 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-61: Plod’s working on his aura…
31 Aug 2010, 13:58 pm
@Two Eyed(Two Eyed)-64: Jantjies
?? WTF where have you been, we have seen the cr*p he churns out .. he aint young and he aint that talented.
Lambie maybe after RWC 11.
And pray that we get a half decent Mngmnt team.
31 Aug 2010, 13:59 pm
@bananas(bananas)-69: Ever heard of Elton???? And no…not Elton John. Where have u been????
31 Aug 2010, 13:59 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-65: that’s right, but the journos on this site won’t discuss it…it shows them up…
31 Aug 2010, 14:01 pm
@Victor4CAPTAIN(UnbeataBULL)-62:
‘games that don’t matter much!’
All games matter. When last have we won a game ‘that doesn’t matter much!?
Too me every game matters. We not winning many of the so called mattered games, so I hope we can start winning the games that don’t matter now.
Can’t believe I’m reading that games don’t matter much…
31 Aug 2010, 14:01 pm
IRB World Rankings
1(1) NEW ZEALAND 94.29
2(2) SOUTH AFRICA 86.75
3(3) AUSTRALIA 84.52
4(4) FRANCE 82.75
5(5) IRELAND 82.03
6(6) ENGLAND 81.82
SA still #2.
There must be a fundamental flaw in the manner in which these rankings are determined………………………………..surely.
31 Aug 2010, 14:02 pm
Coach will never listen to good advice no matter from who it comes. Why not rest these out of form players ? I hope they fire all of them coaches
31 Aug 2010, 14:02 pm
@BlueBlood(BlueBlood)-48: Spies carried for the most meters od all the forwards last weekend, and i’ve been a strong critic in the past. He was better on Sat.
31 Aug 2010, 14:03 pm
@Two Eyed(Two Eyed)-70: Sorry thought you were mentioning Conrad.
My apologies, the youngster looks talented but would be better to wait until after PdV/DM/GG ..
31 Aug 2010, 14:06 pm
@bananas(bananas)-76: No problem
31 Aug 2010, 14:06 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-72: If you play your “A” side in EVERY single game on the calendar, your team will look as exhausted as our Boks do currently.
SARU only see money when scheduling the season, not taking into consideration time for rest. If a team does poorly in the EOYT, but wins the RWC, wouldn’t you say that the RWC meant more than a tour to IMO weaker opposition?
Thats my opinion.
31 Aug 2010, 14:07 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-73: In terms of the rankings system (history etc) – Sa is disadvantaged due to the Boks time in isolation, including the 2 WCs where Sa did not partake – the system looks at history and basically penalises the Boks in comparison to the abs – i.e. Points accmulation is easier, albeit marginally, for the abs…
31 Aug 2010, 14:08 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-75: but that’s if you consider running from touchline to touchline ‘gaining metres’! He was running laterally for most of the day!
31 Aug 2010, 14:09 pm
@Two Eyed(Two Eyed)-77:There is so much talent in SA, sadly not among the current crop of coaches.
I hope Vic and FdP take up their coaching exams ..
31 Aug 2010, 14:10 pm
@Victor4CAPTAIN(UnbeataBULL)-78:
Now I would have brought in the youngsters now as the trophy was already won by the AB’s after our away leg and built on that. We are losing to the ‘weaker’ opposition anyway and that with our A team.
Our team selections now are one-sided and Lord forbit we lose key players – no back-ups have been really tried and tested.
31 Aug 2010, 14:11 pm
Here’s my team that will beat the Aussies any given day , even if though some of them are not playing the game anymore
15 Percy
14 James Small
13 Danie Gerber
12 Carel Du Plessis
11 Chester Williams
31 Aug 2010, 14:12 pm
Here’s my team that will beat the Aussies any given day , even if though some of them are not playing the game anymore
15 Percy
14 James Small
13 Danie Gerber
12 Carel Du Plessis
11 Chester Williams
10 Honiball
9 Joost
31 Aug 2010, 14:13 pm
@Andre_WP(Andre_WP)-83:
Carel Du Plessis at 12 – I’m sure you meant Michael
31 Aug 2010, 14:14 pm
@Andre_WP(Andre_WP)-84: At what playing rugby or hosting braais ??
31 Aug 2010, 14:14 pm
@Andre_WP(Andre_WP)-84: Michael at 12 and Carel at 11.
31 Aug 2010, 14:15 pm
@Andre_WP(Andre_WP)-84: Andre Joubert at 15.
31 Aug 2010, 14:15 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-80: lol well, according to ruggastats, he broke the gainline 80% of the time, and ran for a total of 58 meters. Forwards. (Schalk and Juan had 45 each)
31 Aug 2010, 14:15 pm
@Victor4CAPTAIN(UnbeataBULL)-62:
“They will use the S14 to get matchfit, and voila, RWC trophy staying in SA. I hope thats the plan!!”
Let’s see. The amount of games teams will play in the S15 next year.
Domestic league: 8
International league: 6
Play off: 1
Semi: 1
Final: 1
So players in the teams that go through to the final may play a maximum of 17 games. If two SA teams goes through to the final, or even just the semi’s, like this year, one can assume that their players will form the bulk of the Bok squad for the WC.
Then there are still the little thing of the 3N. Another 4 matches.
You sure the players won’t be too tired after playing 15-20 S15 and 3N matches before the WC starts?
Should we not rather rest them in the S15 instead? The first 7/8 games for example. That will give them about 16 weeks rest (Dec-end of March/middle April) in which to recuperate.
Play 7/8 matches in the S15, 4 matches in the 3N and go to the WC where you have to win 7 matches to win the cup.
What do you think?
31 Aug 2010, 14:23 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-5: Steyn wasn’t that bad at all and he’s just had a 2 month rest.
31 Aug 2010, 14:26 pm
Determine John Smit’s aura this weekend and stand a chance to win a brand new Speedo! Terms and conditions apply…
31 Aug 2010, 14:27 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-73: there is a fundamental flaw, they’re not re-set at the start of every year so form from years ago counts, which is silly.
31 Aug 2010, 14:28 pm
15. Andre Joubert
11. Ray Mordt
31 Aug 2010, 14:29 pm
@nama1(nama1)-90: NZ tried tht and it failed..BIG TIME
31 Aug 2010, 14:31 pm
@I_support_BEES(suffer_guy)-52: Word from a pretty reliable source is that the officer was engaging in some “extra curicular” activities and that his two accomplices who got away are the ones responsible for using Bees’s card while he was in the cell.
Seems there is a reason he has pleaded not guilty on both counts.
31 Aug 2010, 14:33 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-92: That should attract Grant10 big time
31 Aug 2010, 14:34 pm
excelsior .. there will be alot of stories .. lets hope its a fair trial
31 Aug 2010, 14:37 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-91:
Give Young Steyn another month OFF, in that case.
He is a gifted player. Very gifted.
But he is human.
And Aplon did nothing to deserve being dropped. I was quite impressed actually.
31 Aug 2010, 14:39 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-99: impressed by the way he kicked it to Cory Jane to set up NZ’s try? Aplon wasn’t too bad to be fair but if there’s an SA player to criticise from the weekend it’s Bryan Habana who gave Oz 14 points. Adam Ashley-Cooper was the poorest Oz player at the weekend.
31 Aug 2010, 14:42 pm
‘I will play my best team on that tour,’ De Villiers said when asked about the risk of taking a weakened side north in November. ‘All you guys [the media] have been telling me that John Smit is not good enough, Victor is not good enough and Bryan is not good enough, so maybe I’m going to start listening to you,’ he chirped sarcastically.’
Sounds like PDV is going to rest the senior players.
31 Aug 2010, 14:42 pm
Here is my match 22 for EOYT:
1. Beast
2. Bismack
3. Duplessis
4. Flip
5. Bekker
6. Louw
7. Smit(c)
8. Duane
9. Hougaard
10. Lambi
11. Aplon
12. Morne Steyn(yes him,think he can make a good centre)
13. De Jong
14. Mvovo
15. F. Steyn
Subs
16. Chilliboy(vc)
17. CJ
18. Rossouw(experince)
19. Fortuin(FS)
20. Vermaak
21. JdV
22. Pienaar(cover flyhalf and fullback)
peeps to be included in the touring 30:
23. Kanko
24. That young fly half from Lions(forgot his name)
25. Basson
You can add the five to make it 30 players…
31 Aug 2010, 14:44 pm
@nama1(nama1)-90: Very good point! Didn’t think of it like that.
Getting that through to the provincial coaches will be a difficult task, though.
But yeah, what you’re saying makes sense.
31 Aug 2010, 14:46 pm
If some of our players are fatigued Sarfu should bring in a rule to limit the minutes any S14 player is allowed to play over the course of the competition. This might also help to unearth more talent by exposing more players to a higher level of rugby.
31 Aug 2010, 14:47 pm
Isn’t Bekker out for the year? Pick Juandre Kruger before he is tempted to come back to UK. Hell, they wanted him to stay – they fancied him for England. Already talked about capping him after one more season.
31 Aug 2010, 14:48 pm
Who is the Bok media liason person? Is there such a person? Must be one hell of a job with all of these weird “statements” coming out
“If you’re not with us you’re against us” seriously, was that actually said? I mean WHAT the f8ck is that??
I do sometimes worry though that all of this is just reported totally out of context by the press. Is that what this is? Somebody help me
31 Aug 2010, 14:50 pm
How come you never here about these sort of complaints coming out of NZ?
The fact of the matter is when you’re winning everything is good….. But when we’re losing we seem to fall back on the “oh the players are physically drained” routine. Not once was this brought up during the S14 or June Tests. Whats changed? If we were winning none of this would be an issue… We need to front up and admit that we’re just playing k@k rugga’s at the moment, and come November we need some new blood in the Bok setup (players AND management included)
31 Aug 2010, 14:51 pm
@class_clown15(class_clown15)-107: What about NZ compiling DVD’s of the ref’s handling of their games once out the WC?
Snor is great comedy value though.
31 Aug 2010, 14:51 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-100:
Sometimes good players have a shocker. (I remember Rodney Solialo having a shocker at Rustenburg).
And Brian didn’t cover himself in glory…………..that is true.
Maybe Brian needs a rest.
But one thing is for sure.
SA needs Brian.
And Frans,
But only when they are 100%.
31 Aug 2010, 14:54 pm
@Virus(Virus)-102: Chilliboy vc????? You do know that no.16 means he is on the bench? Morne Steyn is one of the players who has played the most during the past two seasons. He needs to stay home.
31 Aug 2010, 14:56 pm
@Marino(Marino)-106: Let me put you at ease with regard to the media conspiracy. Just watch a live media conference and you will see that our coach does not possess the ability to answer a simple question with a straight answer. Just listen to his ramblings post match – absolutely the stuff of pure comedy.
31 Aug 2010, 15:01 pm
@class_clown15(class_clown15)-110: VC can start from the bench.I dnt understand he needs to be in the playing field.He is one of the seniors and is groomed to be a captain one day(FACT).
Morne is still a laaitie,I dnt think playing much will affect him that much.
31 Aug 2010, 15:07 pm
my cover for flyhalf would be JdV. actually, I would try this in the 2nd half anyway. start with Morne, then bring him off for de Jong, move JdV to 10 and bring in de Jong at 12. Flyhalf should be creative and someone who attacks space close to the line as well as the vision to pass to outside backs (ala Lambie). Who says a 10 MUST be able to kick??? If FS can belt over 60m kicks easily, then logic will tell u he should be even more accurate with closer kicks! also in game situations where a defensive or territorial kick from flyhalf is required, FS comes in to the flyhalf channel. but heck, we will never know!
31 Aug 2010, 15:09 pm
Aaahhh, the Frans Steyn aura. Do not underestimate the man’s mental powers. He has mesmerized PDV into selecting him. Then he, through his secret hypnotic powers, caused Habana to drop the ball and make him run out of his own in-goal area when he should have dotted down. Next was controlling Butch’s mind and make him run (against his will) flatout into Rocky Elsom, thus injuring his shoulder. Check it out on the replays, Butch has a very surprised look on his face – visibly not in control of his actions.
But, Fransie can’t fool me. I know he wanted Habana to be replaced by Aplon to ensure that his greatest threat is now playing at 11. Now he is busy eliminating contenders for the no 10 jersey, because he has his mind on it.
Do not be surprised if Morne slips in the shower and breaks an arm. Remember, you heard it here first.
31 Aug 2010, 15:10 pm
@ikantspel(ikantspel)-113: No. No point in moving him there at this stage of his career. This was bandied about when he forst burst onto the scene, but that ship sailed a long time ago.
Morne is 1, Frans cover. No other shifts necessary.
31 Aug 2010, 15:11 pm
@Marino(Marino)-106: Hahahaha…don’t worry. I reacted the same when I read that!!! Geez!!!
31 Aug 2010, 15:12 pm
@ikantspel(ikantspel)-113: youkantthinkeither!
JdV at 10? Seriously?
31 Aug 2010, 15:14 pm
@ikantspel(ikantspel)-113: JDV has tunnel vision, he’d be a crash ball 10.
31 Aug 2010, 15:15 pm
WHY NOT BE RANDOM AND A BIT WILD!
15. Riaan Viljoen
14. Lwazi Mvovo
13. Juan De Jongh
12. Fransious Steyn
11. Gio Aplon
10. Patrick Lambie
9. Jano Vermaak
8. Ryan Kankowski
7. Keagen Daniel
6. Fransious Louwe
5. Steven Sykes
4. Flip Van der Merwe
3. Gurthro Steenkamp
2. Graig Burden
1. CJ van der Linde
16. Gary Botha
17. Tandai Mtwarira
18. Ross Skeate
19. Jaque Botes
20. Rory Kocket
21. Jaque Louis Potgieter
22. Gerhard van den Heever
Oops too Many Sharks hey!!!
31 Aug 2010, 15:15 pm
@Virus(Virus)-112: ha ha senior? you being serious? what with his +/- 12 caps all off the bench equating to a total playing time of 80min in his test carrier??? percy monty spends more time on the field handing Morne his kicking tee than chilliboy does.
31 Aug 2010, 15:17 pm
UNBEATABULL, sorry – forgot i was going against loftus gospel that makes it sacrilegious to suggest a 10 without a killer boot. the shame! glad that you countered by reasoning with a sound argument.
31 Aug 2010, 15:22 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-119: No (well yes but you lost me at Gerhard Van der Heever….I mean really…..)
31 Aug 2010, 15:25 pm
@gecko(gecko)-105:
He was MASSIVE for the Saints! They played Munster at home and even O’Connell couldn’t handle him!
31 Aug 2010, 15:25 pm
@Papoose(papaown)-95:
I know. But didn’t they rest their players for the whole of the S14 back then.
The local league of the new S15 is, in our case, a glorified CC competition. As you know the CC is currently being played while the Bokke are away on test duty. My suggestion would be that the Bokke don’t play in the domestic league of the S15. They should only start to play during the international leg.
That of course will mean that coaches will have to juggle the composition of their squads as I believe that you are just allowed a certain number of players in your squad. But it can be done if the will is there, I believe.
31 Aug 2010, 15:26 pm
Bees is out why dont they pick him…
31 Aug 2010, 15:28 pm
Why is there so much emphasis on momentum when we had hardly any of it yet managed to win the last RWC?
We’re draining our most experienced players all in the name of “momentum”. The truth is when we begin the next RWC we can have all the “momentum” we want, but if we have a bunch of players running onto the field with no gas left in the tank it will all be worthless.
31 Aug 2010, 15:29 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-123: Yip. Dominated P’OC two of the three games they played. Pity the third was the knock-out game, and there P’OC did him.
31 Aug 2010, 15:30 pm
Couchcoach I can believe that, but still I’d like to know if there someone tasked with “communications” here…is this maybe something Hoskins etc should be looking into?
This whole thing of deVilliers “statements” is now becoming a circus act and if one cares to look at websites based overseas we are now beyond a laughing stock. Others may not care, which is their right, but actually I’m starting to get a bit f8cking irritated that this is effectively the mouthpiece representing SA rugby. Remember there are a lot of people who have worked very hard over a long time for us to build a proud reputation as a rugby nation.
Why should this chattering twit be allowed to ruin that and embarrass us?
And before anybody goes calling me a racist – TRUST me I felt the same way when that idiot Streauli was running around.
31 Aug 2010, 15:35 pm
@ikantspel(ikantspel)-121: I aim to please.
31 Aug 2010, 15:39 pm
@Marino(Marino)-128: Lets halt the debate, PdV is likeable but way out of his depth. Everybody knows why he is there, my biggest vent is for the useless D*ck and very ordinary GG.
Why could we not get a decent staff ? It was fine when we were winning but now we are losing I dont see so many brave comments from the uselss pair of testicles ..
31 Aug 2010, 15:41 pm
@nama1(nama1)-124:
Advantages of not playing core Bok players in the local S15 league.
- They play 8 less games.
- They rest an extra 8 weeks.
- Cheetahs and Sharks (maybe Lions also) have an equal chance with the Stormers and the Bulls to top the log and go through to the play off round.
31 Aug 2010, 15:42 pm
@Victor4CAPTAIN(UnbeataBULL)-129: victor is ‘n sak bene
31 Aug 2010, 15:43 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-122: do you think Pdv would take kindly to thorough criticism like this? To think that people reckon our gameplan problems are new
Mallett: Boks lack creativity
Nick Mallett, writing in the Sunday Times,
believes the Bok backline is still a major
concern.
This was a hugely committed performance
from the Boks, writes Mallett. It was
certainly in line with what we’ve grown
used to defensively over the years.
There was huge passion and commitment at
the breakdown from our guys but we still
have a problem in scoring tries.
There is a lack of creativity from our
backline which is worrying.
The All Blacks were good with short inter-
passing around the fringes a feature of
the game that I didn’t think we handled
particularly well, which was a problem.
We were undisciplined around ruck and
maul. It might almost have been a case of
being over zealous. Fourie du Preez, Butch
James and Jacques Fourie were all guilty,
and they weren’t the only ones.
People may point out that the Test was all
about the difference between Dan Carter’s boot and Percy Montgomery’s
let’s face it, he didn’t have a great
day but I think that the real issue was
that at crucial times we didn’t find touch
when we should have.
Du Preez and James were the culprits and in
both cases the ball found its way to Carter.
He’s such an inventive player that both
missed touches cost us dearly because the
ball was run back at us and both situations
led to tries for them at absolutely vital
stages of the game. You don’t want to
be conceding tries then.
The second one was run back at us and
although Breyton Paulse managed to bring
Carter down he’d already passed the ball
to Richie McCaw who scored.
That was in the 73rd minute and at that
point the score was 28-17, so that was it.
Du Preez had a pretty good game generally
and obviously he was involved in the
opening try.
As for James, it’s difficult to tell because
it was a pretty iffy game. Some of his kicks
were inaccurate. He didn’t break the
gain line with any kind of regularity.
He can’t be judged on this performance
really and, certainly, he wouldn’t have
played with Du Preez very often
.
My major concern was our backline it
just wasn’t threatening enough.
We need to work on playing what’s in
front of us rather than on pre-planned and
pre-ordained moves.
The pre-planned move just doesn’t work
that well against well-organised defences.
Our lineouts were excellent. We were good
on our own throws and put them under
great pressure on their throw-ins.
Our scrum was a problem, particularly when
Os [du Randt] went off.
With CJ van der Linde and Eddie Andrews on
we were put under immense pressure.
This was the one aspect of our game that
was good against the Wallabies last
weekend.
I was pleased with the levels of
commitment and passion. The guys were
stung from last week and they certainly
came out and played for the jersey.
But, let’s face it, if you play with those
levels of passion and still lose 35-17 then
that’s not anything to be particularly
proud of.
If a lack of commitment gives you the
Brisbane result and 100% passion gives
you this, we are in a pretty difficult
situation going forward.
Finally, it needs to be mentioned that the
South African game concentrates more on
the ball carrier, while other top teams in the
world – and I would put New Zealand,
Australia and France in that category concentrate more on running into space.
I don’t want to belabour the point, but
our tries didn’t really involve passing or
backline interplay to any degree.
The first came from Du Preez’s
knockdown and the second came from a
diagonal kick which allowed Paulse to
outsprint the opposition. Our backline play
in general just isn’t going to threaten
organised opposition in any kind of
consistent way.
The three teams that I mentioned above
have key decision makers at scrumhalf,
flyhalf and inside centre’s and they have
a variety of players for any move on which
they decide.
We concentrate on ball carriers and cleaners.
That gives the impression that we’re
running a pre-planned move. We’ve
really got to get away from that.
This entry was posted on Sunday, July 23rd,
2006
31 Aug 2010, 15:46 pm
@Marino(Marino)-128: Nobody will call you a racist, my friend. The fact of the matter is that there are many black and coloured rugby supporters who are just as mystified as you and me when it comes to this man’s utterances.
I understand that SARU did at one stage try to put a lid on him talking to the media, but of course it would mean that they admit that they made a mistake in appointing him. The sponsors also expect the coach to talk to the media.
Your frustration and shame is felt by many of us. Last week’s press conference was a gem. He was asked about his selections and why he did not rest key personnel, to which he replied,
“Everyone can select their own teams and they can put in the team whomever they want to. The difference is that my team actually has to go out and play while other people’s teams never play”
I mean, what does that have to do with anything? Why could he not just answer the question? Why must he always strike a defensive pose? Just tell the reporter why you continue to play Smit, Spies, Matfield, Habana etc. What is the reasoning behind it?
31 Aug 2010, 15:51 pm
Bananas don’t get me wrong, i agree that Div IS actually likeable – and just like Streauli he does have the best intentions for our rugby but yes he is out of his league. You simply cannot be in a senior posistion like that in the modern world if you don’t know how to temper your public statements.
And if the big bosses say that it’s his job to coach not talk then ban him from speaking to the media!
31 Aug 2010, 15:53 pm
@mountaingoat(mountaingoat)-132: Whom have won everything possible in the game of rugby. Decent bag of bones, I’d say!
31 Aug 2010, 15:53 pm
Habana is going to show everyone why he is the best wing in the world this weekend.
He just has too much class to be written off. Tired, out of form, whatever his last international of the year he’ll produce the good.
Watch.
31 Aug 2010, 15:55 pm
I must say nick is doing good with the azzurri…they’ll surely beat the AB’s next year LOL
31 Aug 2010, 15:55 pm
@WP_(WP_)-137: Agree. I think he might be going for that one elusive try too hard. (To break Joost’s record) I think that once that try is out of the way, he’ll return to his former best.
For now, he’s a liability in defence. Putting alot of pressure on him mates….
31 Aug 2010, 15:56 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-133: Sounds like it could have been written for a few tests this year hey?
Even some of the names are eerily familiar….
31 Aug 2010, 15:57 pm
@Victor4CAPTAIN(UnbeataBULL)-136: fortunate dragon who realized just in time he is not bigger than the game else he would have been in europe long ago..remember jake sent him packing in the 3nations in 2004?
31 Aug 2010, 16:02 pm
habana will need to play a danie gerber type of game to make up for the hond k@k showing @ loftus … any other player in the world would’ve been dropped after that showing .. probably the worst performance ever in a bok jersey
31 Aug 2010, 16:11 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-140: hence i said it’s crazy that people think our gameplan woes are as a result of the incumbent coaching staff…
31 Aug 2010, 16:23 pm
@I_support_BEES(suffer_guy)-142:
No “Magic” Johnson has the honours for that one!!
31 Aug 2010, 16:24 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-143: Yes, but you know what it’s like. We all want someone to blame. PDV represents a very convenient target for some, who see him as an intruder into their world.
I’ve met PDV and had a chance to talk to him and found him to be sincere, committed to his task and much sharper than some make him out to be.
That doesn’t mean he isn’t prone to puzzling behaviour from time to time, but I think he’s been ok. As Tacitus said, if we win this weekend the year so far would look average, but not the train wreck that some have been making it out to be…..
31 Aug 2010, 16:30 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-145: my bet is heyneke meyer wouldn’t have taken our gameplan further either…not with WO still crash balling everything…
31 Aug 2010, 16:33 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-146: Yeah I’m sick of the “appoint Heynecke” brigade.
31 Aug 2010, 16:36 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-145: typical example was this year lions vs bulls…wynand gets a clean break, one player to beat – herkie kruger- he ran STRAIGHT onto hercules!!! Ball got dislodged and lost forward, definite try pissed!
And pdv still selects this guy!
31 Aug 2010, 16:36 pm
JPP, Habana, Spies, Jannie, Smit and Gurthro all shouldn’t be there. And FFS can Hougaard PLEASE move to the wing?!?! Put Sarel or Vermaak at scrumhalf! Hougaard is a fantastic wing! And van en Heever should feel pretty insulted!
31 Aug 2010, 16:57 pm
@rugbywriter(rugbywriter)-149: LOL, now why should Van Der Heever feel insulted? Do you honestly think he’s good enough to play for the Boks? I tell you what. Find me 20 people who actively support another province and who think GVDH should be a Springbok, above either Aplon, Mvovo, Mapoe, Basson, JPP and Habs and i’ll concede. But I guarantee you, it won’t happen.
It’s not that he’s a bad wing. He’s a very good wing, but not better than the above. He’s big and fast, but lacks maturity in all other areas. Which he may yet develop, I’m not closed to that possibility, but not now.
31 Aug 2010, 17:01 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-150: I am with you there. All the Bulls supporters read alleged sprint times of the okie and suddenly he became the best thing since Steers ice cream.
He does not look for work on the field and he has that classical expression of “die ligte is aan, maar die mense is by Sun City”
31 Aug 2010, 17:31 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-150: it’s “THE TROUBLES OF A WHITE WING”
31 Aug 2010, 17:33 pm
@Couchcoach(GI POT)-151:
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA 
@ ‘die ligte is aan maar die mense is by sun city’ classic!!!!
31 Aug 2010, 18:44 pm
@Couchcoach(GI POT)-151: Yes… But… but he has the some SA junior track record for Hurdles… that alone should make him the best winger in SA rugby.
31 Aug 2010, 18:49 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-152: What has “white” got to do with it? Even if he was good enough clearly, to the likes of you and ET, he is the wrong hue to be a Bok anyway. So why bother about him – you win here…?
31 Aug 2010, 18:57 pm
@Couchcoach(GI POT)-151: Yeah, I like that one. I’m going to use it on tacitus first chance i get
@theOracle(theOracle)-154: yes, hi 40m sprint times are legendary on this site lol.
@Transformation(Transformation)-152: You might say that lol…..
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-155: Nothing. He isn;t good enough, black or white. If he was a WP player i may feel differently though… (not).
31 Aug 2010, 19:04 pm
1st XV
1. Beast 2. Bismarck 3. Jannie 4. Rossouw 5. Bekker 6. Brussouw 7. Smith (c) 8. Big Joe 9. Du Preez 10. James 11. Habana 12. F Steyn 13. Fourie 14. JPP 15. Lambie
2nd XV
1. Guthro 2. Smit 3.BJ 4. Flip 5. Matfield 6. Louw 7. Burger 8. Kankowski 9. Hougaard 10. Pienaar 11. Basson 12. De Villiers 13. De Jongh 14. Aplon 15. Daniller
Best 30 in the country. Players to never put on a springbok jersey again: Meisiekind, Spies, Bakkies, Januarie, Kirchner.
Olivier, Januarie, Kirchner, Spies not good\tough\fit enough for test rugby.
31 Aug 2010, 19:07 pm
People that complain about the overplayed excuse being invalid just need to look at Juan Smith to see what somegood rest can do.
And also shows how ommission can show your worth
31 Aug 2010, 19:20 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-156: Nothing like making yet another overrated WePee player a Bok… Morgan Newman ring a bell – and then you target GVdH… You chaps on the West Coast are twisted… This Bulls envy is going to get you nowhere…
31 Aug 2010, 19:21 pm
@coma(coma)-157:
Clearly a sharks fan…
31 Aug 2010, 19:30 pm
EYOT TEAM:
15 Gio Aplon (WP)
14 Lionel Mapoe (Cheetahs)
13 Juan De Jongh (WP)
12 Meyer Bosman (Cheetahs)
11 Bjorn Basson (Griquas)
10 Peter Grant (WP)
9 Francois Hougaard (Bulls)
8 Duane Vermeulen (WP)
7 Francois Louw (WP)
6 Heindrich Brussouw (Cheetahs)
5 Andries Bekker (WP)
4 Adriaan Fondse (WP)
3 Jannie Du Plessis (Sharks)
2 Bismark Du Plessis (Sharks)
1 Guthro Steenkamp (Bulls)
16 Tiaan Liebenberg (WP)
17 Tendai Mtawarira (Sharks)
18 Bakkies Botha (Bulls)
19 Jean Deysel (Sharks)
20 Jano Vermaak (Lions)
21 Elton Janjties (Lions)
22 JP Pietersen (Sharks)
23 Chillyboy Ralepelle (Bulls)
24 Coenie Oosthuzien (Cheetahs)
25 Franco Van Der Merwe (Lions)
26 Willem Alberts (Sharks)
27 Ricky Januaire (WP)
28 Patrick Lambie (Sharks)
29 Conrad Jantjes (WP)
30 Gerrard Van Den Heever (Bulls)
31 Aug 2010, 19:30 pm
@ossewa(ossewa)-160: Why would you say that if I might ask? I am actually a huge Bulls fan, like the stoermers too,
31 Aug 2010, 19:34 pm
Man o man, has Daniller not been brilliant of late? Huge kick, big, strong, solid under the highball, and finally he has discovered he can run as well, he is finally living up to his schoolboy reputation, now only waiting for Spies to do the same.
31 Aug 2010, 19:39 pm
Here is the Bok XV as WePee supporters would prefer:
15. Pieterson
14. aplon
13. Mossie
12. Donkey DeVilliers
11. Habana
10. Grant
9. Ricky
8. Fatfuck Vermeulen
7. Burger
6. Flo
5. Bekker
4. Van Zyl
3. Harris
2. Liebenberg
1. Blaauw
I say let them have their side. The rest of Saffers can make do with:
15. Lambie / Kirchner
14. JPP / GvDH
13. WO / Ebersohn
12. Steyn / Doppies
11. Mvovo / Hougaard
10. Steyn
9. FdP / Hougaard / Pretorius
8. Spies / Kanko
7. Smith / Potgieter
6. Brussouw / Stegmann / Minnie
5. Matfield / Kruger
4. Bakkies / Rossouw / Sykes
3. DuP / Smit
2. Smit / DuP / Botha / Strauss
1. Steenkamp / Beast
Lekker, I say WePee chaps must go and play for the Republic of CT – the Boks don’t need them…
31 Aug 2010, 19:39 pm
@coma(coma)-162:
My goodness, a Bull with at least some sense
And those two teams of yours are simply incredible and show the depth available in SA at the moment. A good mix of young and old, experience with youth. It’s difficult to tell which one is the A side.
Good work.
31 Aug 2010, 19:40 pm
@Rhys7(Rhys7)-161: Obviously a WP hype merchant…
31 Aug 2010, 19:41 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-155: man are you a dom doos
Troubles of a white wing
Gerhard van den Heever faces immense
obstacles in his quest to earn Springbok
selection.
The Bulls wing wants to go to
the 2011 World Cup in New
Zealand. And in an ideal world,
one uncomplicated by Bryan
Habana ’s legacy and accepted
but flawed selection norms,
he ’d have a realistic hope too.
This, after all, is the kid who
ended his rookie season in
2009 having scored 11 tries in 19
provincial matches, and at the time of
writing had bagged four in seven Super 14
starts. Rich in promise and with all the
technical and physical attributes a modern
wing needs to be successful, his Springbok
ambition isn ’t misplaced.
But his is a unique battle – one that no other
elite South African wing has to fight.
It’s one, firstly, for acceptance and
appreciation among the Loftus disciples,
who are still in mourning after the passing –
figuratively speaking – of their messiah,
Habana. Van den Heever is yet to prove he
is worthy of lacing Habana ’s boots, let alone
filling them.
Those in the know at the Bulls tell me he’s
quicker than Habana (a South African
champion hurdler at school, he once ran
13.7sec over 110m and boasts a 200m best
of 20.9). He ’s quicker than that now, but
speed alone will never see him escape
Habana ’s haunting shadow.
Habana’s legend was built on feats of
brilliance, the most memorable of which
came at Kings Park in 2007. That last-gasp
try against the Sharks captured the Bulls ’
first Super 14 title. Appreciation for Habana
became reverence. Whoever succeeded him
would be judged by the standard he had
set.
Habana was the Bulls’ adrenalin-charged
central nervous system, renowned for his
ability to spark the team into life with
impossibly brilliant feats. Viewed in this
context, Van den Heever ’s lot is not an
enviable one.
He addresses the subject of being compared
to Habana with the naivety of the man-child
that he is.
‘People shouldn’t compare me to Bryan,’ he
says. ‘Of course they shouldn’t,’ I counter,
‘but the reality is they do and are, and will
continue to for some time.’
‘I can’t control that. I can’t control what
people think. I just know I’m my own man.
Bryan is the best wing in the world. Nobody
can fill his boots, ’ is his rebuttal.
‘Sure,’ I probe further, ‘but as unrealistic as
the expectation is, the nature of people is to
measure the replacement of an exceptional
player by the standards that player has set.
Let me ask you this, where do you think
you stand in the Bulls supporters ’
estimation?
‘I don’t know. I haven’t thought about that.’
Of course he hasn’t. The question was a
foolish one to pose to a 20-year-old who
was probably oblivious to the issue until I
raised it. Such complexities didn ’t register
with him. Keeping his starting place through
consistent performance is his primary, all-
consuming, objective.
But his ignorant bliss
will soon be disturbed by the realisation of
the magnitude of the task ahead. The Bulls’
faithful are looking for a new demi-god to
worship. Van den Heever ’s mortality will
only be tolerated for so long. Supernatural is
what is demanded.
‘That’s unfair pressure to put on a
youngster,’ Bulls coach Frans Ludeke says.
‘We see a bright future for Gerhard, but
we’re realistic about his development and
understand that we need to have patience
with him.
‘Bryan was a special player who will forever
be remembered as a legend at Loftus. But I
think it ’s testament to Gerhard’s talent that
people compare him to Bryan. Even Bryan
said he [Van den Heever] is a better player
at 20 than he was at the same age. That ’s a
massive compliment and he will only
improve.
‘We’re giving him time and space to
progress naturally. I hope others will do the
same. ’
Van den Heever could have done without
Habana weighing in on the issue of his
successor in a post-match interview after
their Currie Cup triumph in 2009.
It was a throwaway line: ‘I think Gerhard
has the potential to be a Bulls and Springbok
great. ’ The implications of which Habana
didn’t consider at the time.
He was paying a
massive compliment to his heir apparent,
but inadvertently dumped a jersey that
weighed 100kg on the kid and slipped lead
boots on to his feet.
Van den Heever remains unfazed.
‘That comment never made me feel
burdened. Why would it? I grew up
idolising Bryan and for me to feel down
about him saying kind things like that about
me to the media would be foolish. ’
But there is an uncertainty detectable in Van
den Heever ’s voice.
Earlier he told me ‘I back
my ability’ when asked if he ever felt
inhibited by a fear of failure, then later
admits that he ‘sometimes’ thinks he is out
of his depth.
That inconsistency isn’t unexpected from
one so young. It does, however, remind us
that Van den Heever ’s is as much a battle to
emerge from Habana’s shadow, as it is one
for emotional and cognitive equilibrium.
Then there’s the issue of Springbok
selection and the World Cup, which poses an
altogether new challenge.
Not since Nick Mallett routinely penned
Pieter Rossouw ’s name on the team sheet
has a Springbok coach consistently selected
a white wing.
This has become the domain of the dark-
skinned player, and the prospects of the
perception that white is whack changing
are slim, unless Van den Heever plays so
exceptionally that he makes himself
invaluable to the Springboks.
And even if he should master levitation,
acquire a jet pack and blow his opposition
away in the coming year, he would still be
competing for just one position, given that
Springbok coach Peter de Villiers is highly
unlikely to look beyond Habana as his
starting left wing.
That leaves Van den Heever competing with
eight wingers (at the time of writing, all of
whom were black, and one of who, JP
Pietersen, is a World Cup winner) for the
right wing berth.
‘If I suggested those were insurmountable
odds, what would your response be?’
‘I don’t think like that,’ he says, ‘I don’t think
about the issues you’ve raised, or all the
wingers I have to get past to make the
Springbok squad. Maybe it ’s naive, but I’d
like to think that if I’m the best of the bunch
I’ll get picked.’
‘But that hasn’t been the reality of
Springbok rugby recently,’ I interject. ‘The
best players sometimes don’t get picked for
various reasons.’
‘The Springbok coach has said on a number
of occasions that he will reward those who
perform consistently. I can only trust that
he stays true to his word, ’ he says.
Only time will tell whether Van den Heever
will die in the darkness cast by Habana ’s
shadow, or whether he’ll stay the execution
and build a legacy of his own. This year’s
rugby season will be decisive in answering
that question.
Time is not an ally. Conclusions about his
aptitude for Super Rugby will be drawn at
the end of their 2010 campaign, or perhaps
sooner, without due consideration of his
age. Even exceptional performances will still
not guarantee that he even gets a passing
glance from the Springbok selectors.
Welcome to the world of Gerhard van den
Heever. It isn ’t a place for the faint-hearted.
By Ryan Vrede
– This article first appeared in the April
issue of SA Rugby magazine.
31 Aug 2010, 19:42 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-164:
You do know you are deranged HG, don’t you? This WP obsession will send you to an early grave and I’m guessing you’re not exactly young at the moment.
Now rub your earlobes and repeat after me ‘woozah, woozah…’
31 Aug 2010, 19:42 pm
@coma(coma)-157: Donkey De Villiers is lucky to make that 2nd XV
31 Aug 2010, 19:42 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-168: hehehehe
31 Aug 2010, 19:43 pm
@Rhys7(Rhys7)-161: That squad of yours ticks all the boxes…
Your 1st 15 backline oozzes the tripple “X” factor 
credible defence (they won’t smash you back but they’ll stop you in your tracks), bloody good attack (no crash ball type… maybe Bosman but even he can distribute well), pace and no team would run them ragged… not even the ABs
Kicking might be a factor but who would kick anything when you’ve got those boys…
Who would be your Captain?
31 Aug 2010, 19:45 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-167: with an article like that, all I can say is the author is a cnut…
31 Aug 2010, 19:46 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-167: “man are you a dom doos” can you translate that to isixhosa?
31 Aug 2010, 19:47 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-173: Ja and tell transie not to get lost in translation…
31 Aug 2010, 19:47 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-164:
Is that non-WP team the Sharks signing targets for their S15 squad?
31 Aug 2010, 19:54 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-167:
wow man let me teach you a trick…
ctrl+c
ctrl+v
31 Aug 2010, 19:54 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-175: Naah, Sharks S15 will be something like:
15. Lambie
14. JPP
13. a surprise
12. Bosman
11. Mvovo
10. JLP / Pretorius
9. McCleod
8. Kanko
7. alberts
6. Brussouw /Deysel
5. Hargreaves / Skeate
4. Sykes
3. DuP / Harris (oops a surprise…)
2. DuP / Smit
1. Beast / Smit
Plus Daniel and some other surprises…
31 Aug 2010, 19:58 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-167:
I think the article is pretty damaging and incredibly naive. GvdH is not one of those freaks like Hougaard or Francois Steyn who can step up and impress at the highest level at such a young age imho. Sure, he’s a super prospect/ One I’ve no doubt will go on to play for the Boks and earn a lot of caps based on the promise he is showing. But he just needs his balls to drop first and spend another bit of time learning his trade with the Bulls.
31 Aug 2010, 19:58 pm
The Boks have had one backline since Mallets side that could actually compete with the worlds best, and that was the one in the 07 WC, thanks Eddie.
Why would we change that backline? The only answer must be: Eddie is not there!! I will keep Du Preez, James, Habana, FSteyn, Fourie, JPP and bring in Lambie for Percy.
In the forwards, Smit, Matfiel, Bakkies are past their sell by date, its Bismarcks, Bekker and Flips time now, Juan Smith can lead us, he never plays a bad game.
31 Aug 2010, 19:59 pm
@coma(coma)-179: anything but Donkey De Villiers at 12…
31 Aug 2010, 20:00 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-173: hey ntanga ungayi qali uyayazi oluhlobo lungu-heavens game luyaphamba
hahaha
31 Aug 2010, 20:02 pm
Crikey
Even as a (relatively sane) bulls supporter I must say that van der heever has some way to go before being considered for the boks.
Mapoe and Basson are way ahead of him.
31 Aug 2010, 20:03 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-167: That’s the one I was thinking of…..@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-164: Don’t put team selctions into our mouths please. We are a knowledgable bunch here in the Cape, unlike your preferred team which would probably look something like:
15 Andre Joubert (hell class is permanent isn’t it?)
14 Stefan Terblanche (He’s still the fittest guy in the team you know)
13 Adi Jacobs (Who cares how many tackloes he slips, the rest will cover)
12 Meyer Bosman (suddenly looks a lot better now that I know he’ll be wearing black next year)
11 Mvovo (actually should be playing for the WP, he’s that good)
10 Lambie (because clutching at straws is not just confined to WP supporters)
9 Rory Kockett (The “new” Luke Watson)
8 Kanko (Cos chicks (and okes) dig him)
7 Deysel (hell he’ll be or get injured but he can play though it, he’s committed that way)
6 Keegan Daniel (if another wing can play loose forwards for the Boks why can’t he?)
5 Johann Muller (overseas quota)
4 Rudi Visage (see 15 above)
3 BJ (cos the whole team giggles every time someone calls his name and you know how important it is to have a good team morale)
2 Bissie (cos it doesn’t matter if we throw the ball in straight or not, nobody would dare jump against Vleis)
1 Beast (now that he’s all clean shaven Bissie and him have kissed and made up)
Substitutes:
None needed. If (When) Detsel goes down injured we are good enough to play with 14 men,
31 Aug 2010, 20:05 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-164:
Listen bullshark, Donkey de Villiers is actually a gazelle especially after last Saturday. More respect there.
And earlier on this thread you punted Juan de Jongh ahead of JVD for this Sat.
You missed a golden opportunity.
I just think you’re a closet Stormers supporter but won’t come out and admit it.
31 Aug 2010, 20:06 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-178: that’s what i said when the thread appeared here on keo. I thought the author was foisting his own inferiority complexes and inadequacies on a 19yr old who only just wants to play rugby…i agree Hurdles will eventually play for the Boks if he maintains his performances and ACTUALLY learns how to defend.
31 Aug 2010, 20:06 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-177:
Haha, but you can’t have Brock the Rock though, how will the Province front row be so prominent and dominating without him?
Oh yeah……!!!!
But hey, what about Hoffman? Surely an ex-WP player, superior by your definition, would waltz into a starting berth at the lowly Sharks????
Joking aside, I’m not so sure about Hoffman being another one who slipped through the Province net. He was there long enough to stake a claim but just didn’t. Although I quite fancied him when he had a run a year or two ago, the coaches obviously didn’t and threw Duvenhage straight into the jersey.
Kind of funny though that he’s leaving because he’s getting moved about, and he’s going to the Sharks. The team that never plays anyone out of position
31 Aug 2010, 20:07 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-183: Not a bad team there, nice comments too, you know your rugby, thats for sure.
31 Aug 2010, 20:07 pm
@gunther(gunther)-182: The key word being “relative”…..
31 Aug 2010, 20:09 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-181: ja, transie – “oluhlobo lungu” – like the pot calling the kettle white, hey? Caught out again… ooh I must go, your itsheri (Rosso) is going to come and fight for you…
31 Aug 2010, 20:10 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-184: You hurt me so bad…
31 Aug 2010, 20:10 pm
Stormersboy
Hardenthefuckup..
31 Aug 2010, 20:15 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-183: WTF – have you gone mad? You forgot JdJ in Black and white next year too…
31 Aug 2010, 20:16 pm
@gunther(gunther)-191: Thanks G, needed that….
31 Aug 2010, 20:17 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-192: You can have Newman.
31 Aug 2010, 20:19 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-186: Hoffman is one of Dolf’s left field buys – he has them quite often…(Pretorius) He listened though when the call from HG was put out for Brussouw, Harris, Bosman, JLP already, and for JdJ to come…
31 Aug 2010, 20:20 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-194: Naah would not like to deprive WePee of such an underrated player…
31 Aug 2010, 20:22 pm
Outtahere
31 Aug 2010, 20:24 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-192:
He’s work in progress.
Getting coached by some donkey.
Province won’t let this one slip through their fingers.
31 Aug 2010, 20:27 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-198: We shall see… There is n place for him in the WePee run on side (Donkey is 1st choice) and he will be welcome at the Sharks
Outtahere
31 Aug 2010, 20:28 pm
De Villiers you are such a @#$%. ” you are either with us or against us” quoting ex president bush just shows what a ##$$%% you are.
Thanks for messing up a springbok golden era in rugby you $#@$%%$#$
31 Aug 2010, 20:28 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-198: its ok.
he is a good player foreshore, but he got a little frustrated when swannie made him his prison beyatch at Kings Park this year.
theres always next year though
31 Aug 2010, 20:32 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-199: donkey de villiers was very poor on sat.
i would have moved frans steyn to 12 and brought gio on at 15 after halftime.
31 Aug 2010, 20:33 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-189: you’re really a nutter!
31 Aug 2010, 20:35 pm
De Villiers was best back on the park Saturday and that includes Hougaard.
And coach De Villiers gonna have all you wrist slitting verkramptes going belly up before the year is out, and by WC 2011 most these faggots over here might very well be singing the clowns praises unbeknown even to themselves right about now.
31 Aug 2010, 20:36 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-202: Dead right, dead wood. Donkey De Villiers has gone back to Sa with a Touch of Irish in his play – not very good…
31 Aug 2010, 20:36 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-199:
@rangerman(rangerman)-201:
Jaque Fourie is being rested for the CC until play-offs.
Watch JDV and de jongh go in CC – should be good.
Can’t believe WeePee blew it again two weeks ago. Well done to Sharks for that.
Next time we’ll make it count. Hoefully that date is the 30th Oct.
31 Aug 2010, 20:36 pm
@coma(coma)-157: Like ur teams and agree about Spies WO etc. They should not be RESTED. They should be dropped and never play again. Not good enough.
31 Aug 2010, 20:38 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-206: hehehe, that JdJ is going to run away into the open arms of the Sharks for next year… Watch.
31 Aug 2010, 20:38 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-206:
Hopefully
31 Aug 2010, 20:42 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-208:
WeePee don’t employ the Lions contract lawyer
Playing alongside JDV in CC will do him good.
And he should be a certainty for Boks on EOYT – in the run-on team.
31 Aug 2010, 20:42 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-204: he was kukker than most of your posts.
******.
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-205: very very very poor. knocked on his *** in every tackle, no distribution as usual, slow and selfish.
overrated like spies imo.
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-206: mate, JdJ is a real talent, i rate him highly and mossie seems to have maintained his form.
de villiers? nah man, fransie was better at 12 in 2008 and 2009.
thanks for the congrats, home game for us, we will see what happens at newlands.
31 Aug 2010, 20:43 pm
WP need a new coach this JW @ss about face blind as a bat stooge don,t know wtf is cutting round his ears. WP’s going nowhere in a hurry with this palooka at the helm, may as well start throwing the S.O.S. white flag and call out for another Aussie or Kiwi come save one more flailing SA franchise on the ropes.
Just as Bok’s under White couldn’t see sh’t for Chandigar till Jones saved the day, this moegoe, is busy burying WP’s game under the Cape Flats sands waiting around for better days or another Antipodean messiah to come save the day. Both Rassie and this JW has been stooge got f’all going between their ears, and they heading south at a rate of knots.
Criminal actually. Beyond reproach.
31 Aug 2010, 20:43 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-211:
fa gg ot.
31 Aug 2010, 20:46 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-212: funny that, the only sa franchises to have won superrugby titles were coached by saffas.
and the sharks reached many finals with…you guessed it…a saffa coaching them.
but i agree, something in the air down in the wc seems to muddle the coaches.
or could it be the fans?
31 Aug 2010, 20:48 pm
Too many big mouthed delusional guppies on here tonight !!
Thank goodness for Skoppie !!
31 Aug 2010, 20:49 pm
Some people watch rugby with blindfolds round their eyes, where you watch the game from Rangerladdie from under the Loch Ness Lomin in the Glomin?
JdV was the only Bok busting the gain line, time and time and time again, not his fault that his mates don’t know f’all from support running play. He made all the headway for nobody to be around when it counted, and Hougaard standing behind scrum gesticulating and directing traffic while the next move should a been happening 30 mts up field was just as thick as anything else witnessed in previous 4 encounters. Only diffs is that when he did take the ball up he is light years ahead of overrated FdP in terms of exciting running play. Still kak sleg clearing from scrum base though.
31 Aug 2010, 20:50 pm
i wonder if koster and JdJ are irritated at being played out of position?
wp already lost schalk “flying feet, no can throw” brits and the genius Conrad Hoffman in this manner.
why do they persist with this “cancer” down there chaps?
31 Aug 2010, 20:53 pm
What the heck is a senior player? To me a player is a player and if you are fat (fat Ricky) or fat and unfit (Smit) or if you are now a has-been (Habana) then you are just not good enough to be in my Bok team ‘senior’ or not.
31 Aug 2010, 20:54 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-217:
Got a bagpipe stuck up your a ss ?? , blowing a lot of hot air …….as usual !!
31 Aug 2010, 20:54 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-216: kuk man. he made one linebreak.
hougie made more.
sorry man, JDV had a kuk game. he is slow and lacks basic distribution skills as he always has. this is why our line crabs towards the sidelines evry game and we cant seem to exploit overlaps.
funnily enough, JdJ had a problem with his passing early on in the s14 this year but seems to have worked it out.
wonder how he feels about being displaced by a carthorse (like vermeulen).
31 Aug 2010, 20:55 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-212:
Skop
Stormers did ok in S14 – except for final. More or less the same pack besides Bekker & Schalk.
It’s at 10 where the problem lies. Peter Grant brought out the best in JDV and Jaque. A playmaker is definitely missing there. I’d move the laaitie Cronje there soonest.
If you want to learn how to swim, jump in the deepend. Look what the Sharks are doing with Lambie
31 Aug 2010, 20:56 pm
@justrugby(justrugby)-219: cute.
thats more a CT thing i believe.
now forget about my *** and tell me why wp insist on playing players out of position please.
31 Aug 2010, 20:57 pm
@RedLion is born again(RL)-218: A senior player is a Snorre favourite player and will not be “rested” no matter what.
31 Aug 2010, 20:57 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-222:
So when they go to the Sharks they feel right at home !!!!
31 Aug 2010, 20:58 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-221: not JDV, JdJ (i know you know this man).
is de waal the sole reason or is duvenage part of the equation?
31 Aug 2010, 20:59 pm
@justrugby(justrugby)-224: ah.
so you admit the problem begins at wp then?
31 Aug 2010, 21:00 pm
how long will it take grantie to get here JR?
or are you plaing him out of position right now?
31 Aug 2010, 21:01 pm
just kidding eh?
it was the reference to bagpipes and my a s s that made me wonder is all.
31 Aug 2010, 21:01 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-226:
31 Aug 2010, 21:02 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-217:
Ranger
JDJ is actually a 13. In the S14, he moved to 12 so that the more experienced Jaque could stay at 13.
IMO it should have been the other way around. The Bok letting the newcomer play in his accustomed position.
But it shows the chartacter of JDJ in that he can play both.
31 Aug 2010, 21:02 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-225:
Not so long ago you were hoping that De Villiers would come to the Sharks, now he’s the kakkest thing on two legs !!!!……hypocrite !!!
31 Aug 2010, 21:05 pm
Oh fark all the guppies out tonight , you okes have a tele conference or what…… anyway there goes the neigbourhood !!!!
CSI rather for me !!!
31 Aug 2010, 21:08 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-230: i know he is a 13 mate.
he is being played out of position.
but he is a great prospect. in fact, wp has plenty of center talent. i will be surprised if you guys hang onto all of them.
@justrugby(justrugby)-231: nonsense.
i said he was kuk on saterday and that he lacks distribution ability.
i have said the latter consistenlty for the last few years.
like cj, he is your problem not mine.
31 Aug 2010, 21:09 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-221:
Stormers not looking good, AC lost the plot big time, plenty enough talent in the squad but now losing Hoffman, not utilizing Cronje, or effectively bringing out best of Pieter Louw, Koster and Vermeulen is sending them into a spiral of jitters and self doubt.
The game plan is all wrong – exactly as J. Smit and Gary Gold are tied hand and foot to this pathetically staid box kicking numb skull JW type rubbish trash rigmarole, so is Alistair Coetsee locked into it like a old dog that knows no other tricks. One would think Fleck or Rassie could jolt some creativity into this humdrum caboodle but Duvenhage is still trying these stupid kicks and De Waal will never get the back line singing in another thousand months of Sundays.
Boks suddenly came out of their lethargic stupor somehow last weekend and its largely to do with Hougaard sparking some action amongst the inside backs. Even back foot Maybeline Morne Steyn was dancing and stepping along the gain line for once, and Spies was even trying to hit it up through the crash ball, something they weren’t doing at all first 3 games.
JdV back at 12 was pumping through the defense and looking hungry for action, only one still out of sorts is Habana in no mans land wondering when will a decent ball come his way, ever.
But WP better get another pivot switch happening soon or this dreary long boat kick and pray game or the slow telegraphic type passing that produces squat up or down the backline is going to get us nowhere very fast as has been evident past 2 weeks.
Sharks under Plumtree like a team from a completely further advanced planet than WP at present, and even Lions under Mitchell looking whole lot better than either WP or even one dimensional Bully Beef Brekers.
31 Aug 2010, 21:09 pm
see mate they like to give but they cant take
then they run…………….
@rangerman(rangerman)-228:
31 Aug 2010, 21:10 pm
@justrugby(justrugby)-232:
dont be so sensitive JR.
31 Aug 2010, 21:10 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-194: more logic on our gameplan woes – it’s crazy to think that all this intellectual capital was ignored in our country, yet when the all blacks rip us a new one everyone wants to jump at the incumbent coaching staff.
Has anyone never spoken to morne steyn for instance and said ‘play what is in front of you’?
Campese: Stow the playbook
Wallaby legend David Campese believes that
the Springboks need to stop playing by the
book and start thinking for themselves.
“Rugby is not a difficult game,” Campese
said on Boots & All. “We just tend to make it
so complex. It’s up to the players to see
what’s going on in front of them.”
Campese’s criticism of the Boks stems from
the fact that they rely too heavily on a set
game plan rather than making on-field
decisions. Former Springbok flyhalf Naas
Botha was quick to agree with the
Australian.
“We play the game plan and not the
situation,” Botha said. “The players are
calling a move regardless of what is
happening on the field … how many times
do you see a scrum going backwards and it
looks as if the players are calling the original
move. ”
The two men were also in agreement that
the problem in the midfield originates in our
domestic game, where No 10 is a kicker and
No 12 a basher. In other countries like New
Zealand and Australia the two positions are
far more creative.
“Numbers 10 and 12 should be focusing on
creating space rather than just trying to
bash it up over the advantage line, ” said
Botha.
Campese added that there was not enough
confidence shown in our the players to take
the necessary risks and break the line. It
basically comes down to over-coaching.
“Other teams know that South Africa are
never going to attack in the inside channel,
so all they have to do is drift out wide, ” he
said. “The Springboks need to learn to back
themselves.”
The ingrained patterns that were successful
for the Springboks in 2004 and 2005,
especially in terms of defence, have proved
ineffective this year. Another possible
explanation of why we are so limp on
attack is that we don ’t have enough leaders
or decision-makers in the side.
“New Zealand have got [Richie]McCaw;
they’ve got [Dan]Carter and
[Leon]MacDonald… when Aaron Mauger gets
the ball you don’t know where he’s going to
go. (wynand should be listening)
“Australia have Stephen Larkham, Matt
Giteau, George Gregan and George Smith.
South Africa have got John Smit and not
much else. The other players in the team
need to learn to take on the responsibility
as well. ”
This entry was posted on Thursday, July
27th, 2006
the last line shows that even journalists (read all the keo arseholes) who go on everyday about a ‘player driven’ system, never learnt the lessons from campo!
31 Aug 2010, 21:11 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-234: dont forget though
plumtree learnt the majority of his rugby in natal as he came here as a junior
31 Aug 2010, 21:12 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-235: howdy sharkie.
well justrugby is a good guy really. but he clearly hasnt enjoyed his domestic rugby since the 1980′s.
and that is actually quite sad.
31 Aug 2010, 21:13 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-234: the Lions are going to klap your show-ponies this Friday – why? because we play total rugby.
31 Aug 2010, 21:13 pm
WO way better than JDV.
31 Aug 2010, 21:14 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-225:
Yes sorry, Ranger. Juan not Jean.
Can we please have Hoffman back?
Tell you what we’ll give you Duvenhage instead and to sweeten the deal we’ll throw in Ricky as well.
31 Aug 2010, 21:15 pm
@Slartifartfast(Slartifartfast)-241:
31 Aug 2010, 21:16 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-239: agreed i also think the blokes a good guy
but typically he and a few others who we wont mention hate anyone that dont think their way
31 Aug 2010, 21:17 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-239: AND HIYAS BRO ^5
31 Aug 2010, 21:18 pm
Was De Villiers that kept the reigns on Aussies all second half, they couldn’t spark anything going forward, front door was shut tight and when it was our turn to bust through was De Villiers that got it wide for once in entire game to get JPP over at the death which sealed Aussie fate.
Boks were camped on Aussie line at around 65-70 min and everyone including Schalk, Hougaard, Spies, Smit and Fourie tried glory boy stunts to crash it over, all it needed was one little wide awake pass into space out wide and we had outside men in a line waiting to cruise in home.
M. Steyn almost foiled it but fortunately spun it out in the tackle for F. Steyn to dot down with no Aussie home, and same for the last JPP try when was JdV that bust it wide and sent JP over. Had both forwards and backs trusted their outside players throughout second half could have been whole lot more where those 2 tries came from, far too much biff bash crash solo hero activity still embedded in these players psyches.
31 Aug 2010, 21:19 pm
@RedLion is born again(RL)-240:
You know, before Sat’s test, I went on record as saying that I’d be happy with a 1 point win – anything to change a losing streak.
Now on Fri night, I’d be happy with a 1 point win – anything to change a losing streak.
Can’t believe I just said that. It’s only the Lions after all.
31 Aug 2010, 21:20 pm
@RedLion is born again(RL)-240:
are you barry hilton?
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-242: you can have hoffman back if you give us JdJ.
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-244: well i just hope csi doesnt upset him lol.
31 Aug 2010, 21:20 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-237: MS decisionmaking is shocking. He will skip pass with a 5 to 3 overlap and kick when his outside centre and wing are standing in space and shouting at him to pass. Even that grubberpass which sent FS over for his try should never have come to that. Should have been a straight forward pass after he has drawn his man.
31 Aug 2010, 21:21 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-247: I can believe u said that. U have Willem de Waal after all
31 Aug 2010, 21:24 pm
@Slartifartfast(Slartifartfast)-241: wo better than jdv…only if you markrting manager for Timotei and you’re after product placement!
31 Aug 2010, 21:25 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-246: again, this is kuk.
JdV merely ran JPP completely out of space before offloading as he realised he was slower than a snail.
JPP burst through a tackle, JDV merely recieved a pass, crabbed sideways and then passed late.
butch james was the defensive hero of the last 15 mins with one of his big hits leading to a turnover which resulted in a try.
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-247: i think wp will have too much for the lions mate.
31 Aug 2010, 21:27 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-251:
31 Aug 2010, 21:28 pm
two eyed
which grubber are you referring to mate?
Fransies try came from a MS backhand flip out of a tackle.
31 Aug 2010, 21:29 pm
@Two Eyed(Two Eyed)-249: is this something that the national coach should be teaching a professional rugby player of msteyn stature? Was it coached out of him and he also internalised it in his quest to be a ‘liefling’ clone? It seems at the bulls if the incument player doesn’t endorse you then u’re up sh*t’s creek…fdp punting francois hougaard ad nauseum, habana plugging hurdles as the next big sh*t…
31 Aug 2010, 21:31 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-237:
Now they all touting we gotta play the situation not the set game plan, meanwhile was Smit and Gold and the open secret senior players that ditched the idea of playing the situation and reverted to our traditional strengths, Bombs away up n under kick n chase till the cows come home, and they sure did too, all the cows came home to roost and moo in the meadow while AB’s were tearing us apart.
PdV’s initial strategy was exactly that, ‘play the situation’ but they bucked and cavorted and chucked it out as something foreign to their staid known style, and since ’09 we got shown exactly where the cancer was taking root and spreading from. Exactly there, by playing the stuck fast 2007 game plan and not the situation is exactly where Bok’s came unstuck Eoyt ’09 and entire ’010 3N.
Seems by what we saw last Saturday they seen the light and realize ball in hand is where its at, if they finally caught a wake up to that fact of rugby life, our chances at 2011WC might not be dead and buried just quite yet.
Anybody saying WO is better than JdV has got absolute rocks in his head.
In 07 JW would have played JdV 12 and Fourie 13, exactly as PdV playing them now, JdV went down with a bicep tear and Eddy Jones took the gamble and played F. Steyn 12 and not WO. If WO had played in 07 WC at inside center not a chance we would have won it, and same for Spies, if Spies would have been at 8 and not Roussow, no way Boks would have won that one sided lucky packet WC even as one sided fukety fluke as it was.
JdV compared to WO is like comparing a Maserati to a VW Beetle.
31 Aug 2010, 21:31 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-73: There must be, it seems the same as the golf rankings
The number one player could have have retired and still be the number one ranked player in the world, bhp yet not win the Masters
Now this sounds like another rugby team we all know…….
31 Aug 2010, 21:32 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-251: Could get more money for Clearasil
31 Aug 2010, 21:32 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-254: what you call a backhand flip he refers to as grubberpass..
31 Aug 2010, 21:36 pm
WO and JDV are very similar players, they’re both crash-ballers. JDV is better in attack than WO and WO is the better defender. Neither however, will take the Bok backline attack to the next level as neither have the guile of a Giteau or Jauzion (the pre-eminent 12s of the past decade). It’s going to take an intelligent heads-up all round player like Pat Lambie or Frans Steyn at 12 before SA get onto the same page as NZ and Oz in attack.
31 Aug 2010, 21:39 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-252: You blind as a bat and its obviously down to some idiotic agenda or other but JdV was huge in that test match, anyone else at 12 on Saturday and we probably would have lost, including WO and F. Steyn, if either those two out of sorts has beens were playing 12 Aussies would have creamed us, same as they did in Brisbane or AB’s did in NZ when WO was prancing around like a fairy with two left feet tied together by tinker belle tails.
Mark Keohane rates JdV’s game Saturday as MOM status and you Rangerschmuckasillydilly reckon he’s slow. Who was chasing everything and busting gain line time and again, not Steyn, not Fourie, not F. Steyn, not JPP. JdV was busting through and hunting and hitting rucks to boot. You got no eyes in your head, you watching rugby from between your legs upside down, better you go back to roamin on the gloamin in county Tinseltown up your paddie wack tweed skirt.
31 Aug 2010, 21:41 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-259: ah, so it was “grubberpass”.
a new one for me.
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-260: ah, a rugby brain arrives.
what a pleasure.
31 Aug 2010, 21:41 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-256: Excuse me, lucky packets, 1987 and 1993 were also lucky packet tournaments
Get real, when you look back world cups, nothing will be said about it, only that one team won
True about WO, he is as useful as an cold air conditioner in Iceland
Danie Rossouw is a massive player in NH conditions, I saw him in Paris, exceptional and would be great at number 8
31 Aug 2010, 21:43 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-260: Eish, good comment, and thats that…
So much for Donkey De Villiers…
31 Aug 2010, 21:44 pm
Evening everybody.
Hi, Skop, I see you’re on a roll – go for it!
31 Aug 2010, 21:45 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-262: JDV was huge in that back line on Saturday, you need to lay off the fire water from Scotland and remove the black and white tinted spectacles
31 Aug 2010, 21:46 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-237: The more things change the more they stay the same hey?
David knew a thing or two about playing what was in front of him, but he had a talent for reading the game that is rare. His tackling talent was rarer still but he was a great nonethe less…
31 Aug 2010, 21:46 pm
Any fool thinking WO is in anyway remotely or vaguely anywhere near to JdV’s class is smelling epsom salts from a crack straw in a beauty parlor filled with WO blow up dolls.
Only place WO surpasses JdV is en route to the hairdresser, thats where he may take him on the outside, everywhere else and especially on the rugby field JdV is WO’s makhulu baas, and then some.
Even F. Steyn is not a patch on JdV as things stand right now,
12 and 13 is perfectly well covered between JdV, JdJ and J. Fourie, the bus is full and WO will just f’up the entire plot if they even dream of bringing that showpony anywhere in back there.
31 Aug 2010, 21:47 pm
@Boerboel(Boerboel)-265: Welcome, wilkommin,goeie naand,
31 Aug 2010, 21:47 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-261: let me get this right:
frans steyn is a “has been” at 23?
JdV was the reason we won, not the actual MOM, Hougaard, or Guthro, or Juan Smith (my 3 most influential)?
Keo is your reference?
gtfoh.
p.s. i see me calling you a f a gg ot has no impact. it was your word first i suppose you despicable piece of excreta.
31 Aug 2010, 21:48 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-260:
Frans Steyn an intelligent player?
Unpredictable and instinctive at best, certainly not intelligent.
31 Aug 2010, 21:49 pm
And we gave WO a Bok contract, are we sure that he is a man?
31 Aug 2010, 21:49 pm
Howdy Boerboel , long time ou maat, hoe vaar die skopskoen been?
31 Aug 2010, 21:52 pm
@JL1(JL1)-269: Goeienaand
@skopskiet(yliad)-273: Been is weer reg en skop lankal die balle dat dit klap!
31 Aug 2010, 21:52 pm
@JL1(JL1)-266: howdy JL.
i watched the game again tonight and once again was unimpressed.
and i am not punting anyone from the sharks mate, frans steyn is a frog nowadays
@skopskiet(yliad)-268: Frans has been a better 12 for 2 years already.
he has a wonderful sidestep (witnessed again on sat) and a kicking game (both feet). his passing is better, he is faster and he has the physical attributes to boot.
what a package. dont be surprised if another injury sees frans at 12 next year in NZ.
31 Aug 2010, 21:53 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-256: hahahaha skop you’re a legend your comments on wo vs jdv made my evening!
‘rocks in the head’ you say!
31 Aug 2010, 21:54 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-271: Look Steyn is way better than many players in SA
Crusaders offered him a S14 contract before he was 19
In SA we usually miss these brilliant players, but Steyn did not slip through the SA net, reckon Eddie Jones and Jake saw to that
31 Aug 2010, 21:55 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-271: he has a wc, a tri nations, a cc and was 2 mins from a s14 title.
and he is 23 Rob.
not too bad eh?
31 Aug 2010, 21:56 pm
@JL1(JL1)-277: I agree, Steyn is in my team any day of the week.
31 Aug 2010, 21:56 pm
@JL1(JL1)-277: ja, thank goodness.
31 Aug 2010, 21:58 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-275: Thing is 12 and 13 come in packages/combos
JDV/Fourie
Steyn/Fourie
Jdv/Jdj
Steyn/JDJ
Oops, no WO in those combos
31 Aug 2010, 21:59 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-260: 008 for a Pom you are so brainwashed with sharks dogma, i’m starting to suspect that you are rudolpf straeuli’s love child! So lambie or francois steyn will transform the boks into a dynamic team like the all blacks?
Did you see any matches of francois steyn at 12 for the sharks? The guy never bloody passed! You got rocks in you head mate…
31 Aug 2010, 22:01 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-282: Sounds like Juan de Jongh for Stormers
31 Aug 2010, 22:02 pm
@JL1(JL1)-281: Strange you missed the JdJ / Mossie combo – probably the form combo of the S14…
Never mind, if JdJ doesn’t get a run on at WePee he can be utilised at the Sharks…
31 Aug 2010, 22:03 pm
@JL1(JL1)-281: steyn/fourie
thats my combo.
but i agree, no room for WO with steyn and JdJ in the team.
@Transformation(Transformation)-282: he did pass. and we won the first 7 games last season with him at 12.
he was in terrific form.
31 Aug 2010, 22:03 pm
JDV may not have silky footwork but he has great awareness and organization on a rugby field not too mention the ability to run good lines and he was very good on Saturday. Frans Steyn is a player who can make something out of nothing and is still learning the game at international level. He will become a great.
If you want to know who is leading this Bokke team read JS’s book and you will see the respect that the players have for him and understand that he is very influential in hte game plan before each game. As JS says they have an input into a session on the Sunday coaches planning meeting but PDV will tell them how he expects the opposition will play and how they can counter and then they decide on the practice sessions needed to hone their game. This is not a show run by the Old Boys Club and PDV deserves the credits as well as the critque and he is man enough to take it. He is a humble,empowering wise man manager according to JS.
31 Aug 2010, 22:03 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-284: Any of those combos would work
Thing is JDV and Mossie understand each other
31 Aug 2010, 22:03 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-282: What is “sharks dogma”?
31 Aug 2010, 22:05 pm
@Boerboel(Boerboel)-274: goed so bly om te ****, nog verde as die volgende losskakel seuntjie van jou ek belowe. Mooi so. Hoop alles reg jou kant.
31 Aug 2010, 22:05 pm
@JL1(JL1)-287: So do JdJ and Mossie, especially on D…
31 Aug 2010, 22:05 pm
@JL1(JL1)-277:
@rangerman(rangerman)-278:
I am not saying he is bad, he is certainly very talented.
My problem with him is that he is too unpredictable and apparantly (hearsay I admit) quite fragile on an emotional level and not a good team man.
I dont believe he is ready at this stage to take over the responsibilities of a number 12 at the top level – at least not ahead of a player like Jean.
Lambie seems like on hell of a prospect – very mature at such a young age.
31 Aug 2010, 22:06 pm
@bananaboy(bananaboy)-286: Got the book, but have not had the time to read it, bloody Keo is stealing my time
31 Aug 2010, 22:07 pm
If you look at the game on Sat the thing that sticks out is that we has established combinations at international level in all the important areas, front row,back three, midfield,back row. The only relatively new combo was at scrummie/flyhalf and Morne tool comfort from the midfield combo and having a reserve kicker in Frans.
31 Aug 2010, 22:09 pm
@JL1(JL1)-283: fyi juan de jongh is a 13!!!! Get with the program…
31 Aug 2010, 22:09 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-290: Brilliant tackler JDJ, technically the best on the international circuit
@Robzim(Robzim)-291: Sounds like most other brilliant sports stars
31 Aug 2010, 22:09 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-278:
No doubt Frans is a great talent. That’s undisputed. But for now, the Boks need him at 15. Obviously, he took those comments of Div to heart about NH rugby being to slow, him being unfit. At the moment, I think he’s trying too hard, much like Habana – but they’ll both come right – this Sat.
But Jean is in a class of his own at 12. And he’s not just a crash ball player – when he does, he gets over the gain line. He’s got peripheral vision, he is one Bok who is able to play the situation, make that half-gap and put someone else into space.
And Jean is 29, Frans 23.
Plenty of time for Frans to challenge for the no. 12 jersey.
31 Aug 2010, 22:10 pm
@JL1(JL1)-292: I tell you JL it gives such a great insight into what made the team that won the WC,B&I Lions series and the 3N’s and you realize that a lot had to do with both JW having established a good squad of internationally experienced players and PDV empowering the players to make the decisions on the field. I really enjoyed the book.
31 Aug 2010, 22:10 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-291: hi Rob.
funny that, i have heard he is anything but fragile emotionally. and his youth allied to his success would seem to point this way.
and as for a team man, i have it that he is very popular amongst his teammates.
he played a wc final at 12 3 years ago Rob. he was ready then, he is ready now. but ja, the frogs will probably refine him nicely for us.
lambie must have his second season before i get too excited. mvovo and basson seem pretty good too.
31 Aug 2010, 22:11 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-294: Did I state that he is a number by any chance, your over eagerness, seems like another one of your premature activities
31 Aug 2010, 22:14 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-296: Funny thing is JS has JDV in his best side (of players he has played with). In fact his words were “a brilliant attacking centrewho has superb organizational skills”
31 Aug 2010, 22:14 pm
De Jong is the best attacking centre we have. You want to punch holes and cos problems in midfield, encourage him to have a go.
JdV played well but he’s been **** in Europe, best 12 is either JdJ or FS.
31 Aug 2010, 22:14 pm
I prefer Frans Steyn at 15 with JdV at 12 at the moment
31 Aug 2010, 22:14 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-296: time will tell i guess.
31 Aug 2010, 22:16 pm
@JL1(JL1)-295: I rate that little guy highly.
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-296: Donkey De Villiers peripheral vision allows him to run laterally – across the field, chewing up the space on his outside. Only the good finishing ability of JPP enabled his try – not De Villiers “vision” or lateral running…
31 Aug 2010, 22:17 pm
well it seems i am outvoted.
jdv to play!
i must hit the sack, good evening all.
31 Aug 2010, 22:20 pm
So let me see if I understand this. All you folks agree that the Super 14 is probably the toughest rugby competition on the planet. Played against all the same players which are our fiercest competition.
Our top 10 try scorers in this years Super 14 competition (only three months ago) are;
1. Shadow with 8 tries;
2,3,4. Habana, J Fourie, Hougaard with 7 each;
5 & 6. Spies & Killian with 6 each;
7,8,9 W Olivier, Basson & Morne (also most points in Super 14 history … EVER) 5 each;
10 Kirchner with 4 tries
Now all you learned gentlemen claim that Shadow is not good enough and that Habana, Fourie, Olivier, Spies, Kirchner & Morne are all has-beens and good for nothing.
Yet you geniuses favour De Jong with 1 try in the S14 and Aplon with nothing.
Last time I checked tries count …… or am I the idiot?
31 Aug 2010, 22:20 pm
@bananaboy(bananaboy)-300:
I’ve got JS’s book and actually read it.
JDV also made the “funniest 15″ JS has played with and not only the “best 15″.
31 Aug 2010, 22:21 pm
@PassTheBall(PassTheBall)-306: Is that a rhetorical question?
31 Aug 2010, 22:21 pm
@cab(cab)-301: Cab that can only come when the player is comfortable with those either side of him. JDJ didn’t perform near his potential because the combo’s were new to him. He needs some time but the need to keep on winning has prevented him from having that time on the field
31 Aug 2010, 22:21 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-298:
Hi Ranger,
I guess it depends who one speaks to.
If he was so happy at the Sharks, why did he go overseas at such a young age against the wishes of the Bok coach.
He also seems to have a bit of a running battle with the bok management, etc.
he has also not played a lot of rugby at number 12 since the previous wc – being more an utility player and no 15 than anything else.
I believe he has all the attributes to become a great fullback in the Chris Lathan mould and that is where he should play.
31 Aug 2010, 22:22 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-307: Thats true as has Jacque
31 Aug 2010, 22:23 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-289: hoekom is h0or n vloekwoord, dis glad nie h0er nie?
31 Aug 2010, 22:24 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-294: funny that, he performed well at 12 in his debut test and for the entire S14…
You, like Kickshot, interpret centre play like locks do: With “space” meaning the gap in your collective craniums, “heads up play” – meaning staring at a big props backside all your rugby lives and “distribution” meaning the neuron leakage disguised as cauliflower ears consequent to the squeeze between said props bum…
Outtahere.
31 Aug 2010, 22:24 pm
@JL1(JL1)-299: i know your type…
31 Aug 2010, 22:25 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-310: He wanted to experience playing rugby in another environment and he wasn’t entirely happy with not playing at flyhalf at the Sharks supposedly. However ask the question where has he been playing for his French club.
31 Aug 2010, 22:26 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-307:
Jean’s funniest moment was in 2007 when he was about to run out for our warm up before the game against Wales and needed to pass some wind, but there was a follow through from a dodgy dinner the previous night so he did an about turn and rushed back to cean up the mess! On his return to the field, he ran to Butch and said: ‘”butchie, i liyerally just shat myself!”
They were both in hysterics.
31 Aug 2010, 22:27 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-316:
literally
31 Aug 2010, 22:29 pm
310 Bananaboy
sure, but IMO the two finest inside centre tries of the S14 were scored by de Jong, his try vs the warstahs is exactly Hiw he should be used. Backline for my money 9. Houg 10. Morne 11. Habs 12. JdJ 13. Fourie 14. JP 15. FS
we don’t have great distributing centres ala **** muir, perhaps lambie, but I’d prefer jdj and fourie are encouraged to have a go and try use our wingers a liitle more also
31 Aug 2010, 22:30 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-314: Took you some time, could not find a tissue fast enough or what?
Get with the program!
31 Aug 2010, 22:32 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-313: uthetha ubuthuvi! When you take a strike-runner like mossie and make him play 12 do you think he will take up the nuances of the position in the 1st season? Jdj’s 1st instinct was to take the gap & pass 2nd or offload 3rd…
now got the banshee needs to cut her corns!
31 Aug 2010, 22:33 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-313: uthetha ubuthuvi! When you take a strike-runner like mossie and make him play 12 do you think he will take up the nuances of the position in the 1st season? Jdj’s 1st instinct was to take the gap & pass 2nd or offload 3rd…
now go the banshee needs you to cut her corns!
31 Aug 2010, 22:34 pm
@cab(cab)-318: Cab I’m with you, all I’m saying is that at International level you need to establish combo’s as confidence in your partner will enable you to play your game and JDJ’s game is attacking with wonderful footwork. IT took him a little while to sort out his game with JF at Stormers as well but from the outset you knew it was going to work. In the S14 mistakes aren’t punished like they are in Tests
31 Aug 2010, 22:34 pm
No place for Wo in a Bok side even a Bok squad.
FS, Aplon, JPP, JF, JdJ, JdV, Habana, Mapoe, MS, Pienaar, Hougaard, FdP, S. Pretorius, JvN, Vermeulen, Spies, Smith, Burger, Potgieter, Roussouw, Bekker, Matfield, Vd Merwe, Du Plessis, Kruger, BJ, Bismark, Chili, Steenkamp, Beast, Smit
31, thats one too many for a 30 man squad. Bus is full. Somebody gotta drop out.
No Kirchner, no WO, and BJ or S. Pretorius gonna have to bow out.
31 Aug 2010, 22:36 pm
and no Bakkies neither, klaar uit die bus, hy’s klaar vol.
31 Aug 2010, 22:37 pm
or Kankowski
who gonna cry about all the spilled milk?
31 Aug 2010, 22:40 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-323: Contracted players are:
Andries Bekker, Bakkies Botha, Heinrich Brussow, Schalk Burger, Bismarck du Plessis, Fourie du Preez, Jaque Fourie, Bryan Habana, Adrian Jacobs, Tendai Mtawarira, Victor Matfield, Wynand Olivier, Ruan Pienaar, JP Pietersen, Danie Rossouw, John Smit, Juan Smith, Morne Steyn and Pierre Spies.
The players who have agreed contracts through to the end of the Rugby World Cup year in 2011 are:
Bakkies Botha, Schalk Burger, Fourie du Preez, Jaque Fourie, Bryan Habana, Victor Matfield, JP Pietersen, John Smit, Juan Smith and Pierre Spies.
31 Aug 2010, 22:41 pm
@bananaboy(bananaboy)-322:
As I said earlier on this thread, JDJ was the one able to make the move to 12. You’d swear he’d played there all is life so Jaque could stay at 13.
I was at Newlands for the Brumbies game and he slid through the defence effortlessly but then stuffed it up by kicking to Habana – a try was on the cards. Similarly in the S14 semi’s when he did score. He’s one of those who can step off either foot – in a way reminds me of a young Danie Gerber and that’s one massive compliment.
31 Aug 2010, 22:41 pm
@JL1(JL1)-326: Money wasted if you look at who actually played this year
31 Aug 2010, 22:46 pm
@JL1(JL1)-326: Why do you think Jacobs was contracted. Now talk about useless!
31 Aug 2010, 22:49 pm
Bakkies is a must if you want to win the world cup and especially to beat nz. He’s far more important than matfield. If he don’t go, we won’t win.
31 Aug 2010, 22:52 pm
@PassTheBall(PassTheBall)-329: You may answer this one as this is not rhetorical! Any idea why is Jacobs there?
31 Aug 2010, 22:53 pm
@JL1(JL1)-328:
You know, this is what a guy like Tim Noakes has warned about. He doesn’t only take into account the games played or time spent on the field by a player this year but also LAST year. The more overplayed the guys become, the greater the chance of picking up injuries.
If you look at the list of contracted players and which are out with injury or just coming back from injury, it is no surprise really.
The Boks can thank their lucky stars that Smit, Matfield and Schalk have remained injury free for so long.
Those coming back from injury – call it an enforced layoff- will be all the better for it.
Think of the others who have played so many S14 games, incoming tests, 3N’s – they definitely need a break from the CC – especially ahead of next year.
31 Aug 2010, 23:00 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-332: Over played and under coached
No strategy, that I am sure of
31 Aug 2010, 23:01 pm
@PassTheBall(PassTheBall)-331: Talking to yourself?
31 Aug 2010, 23:02 pm
Bakkies is overrated not nearly as big bok as he’s made out to be, and he’s fallen off the pace plenty. I wouldn’t cry about Bakkies he’s not nearly as influential as some make him out to be, just a big bully that don’t ever try his bully stunts on guys his own size, always the little okes.
Modern game is not 2007 you don’t need slow reinforced enforcers, mobile hefty units yes, but not overrated bullies.
WC 011 is played in NZ not NH, mobility and ball carrying prowess gonna win the day. Spies and matfield maybe liabilities unless they starts tackling. Vd Merwe, and one more mobile 4, either Roussouw or one other to take up 2nd row with Matfield and Bekker. Bakkies hardly fills the opposition with dread, he’s more huff than puff these days and a big bully is easy as pie to out psyche even Cowan got him riled, yet he won’t try his stunts on Thorn cos he’ll get it straight back with interest.
31 Aug 2010, 23:04 pm
@JL1(JL1)-333: Glad you are back. Your connection must be slow tonight. Agreed with the “under coached” though.
31 Aug 2010, 23:07 pm
@JL1(JL1)-334:Seems so, I do like intelligent conversation. I am new here. Thought you like the “fresh talent”.
31 Aug 2010, 23:08 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-79: One partakes in a meal; one participates in a sporting event. Ear-biter prop Johan le Roux also confused “partake” and “participate”…
31 Aug 2010, 23:10 pm
@JL1(JL1)-333:
PDiv must man up and manage the playing time better. For Matfield and Danie to play the Wales test, the French test and the 2 against Italy was madness.
That test against Wales is coming back to bite us on the bum.
Anyway, i’m outta here. Cheers all.
31 Aug 2010, 23:10 pm
Nope bakkies needs to cut the histrionics and kisses out, but he has thornes number, in fact he’s the only 4 in world rugby that does. He’s just hot to get into the right frame of mind when he’s hard but fair.
31 Aug 2010, 23:15 pm
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-338:
31 Aug 2010, 23:15 pm
@PassTheBall(PassTheBall)-336: No doing some work and then blogging
Welcome anyway
31 Aug 2010, 23:17 pm
@cab(cab)-340: They are good mates, Bakkies and Thorne
31 Aug 2010, 23:19 pm
@JL1(JL1)-342: Thanks. Till next time.
31 Aug 2010, 23:26 pm
Reports say that the brother of the deceased metro cop, Taubokong Mohale, shouted at Bees Roux at court yesterday:
“I’m going to get your mother, you f*cking dog”
This is now after his familiy released a statement to the media that they “Hold no grudges against Bees”.
This tells me two things:
1) They released the initial statement in order to appear saintly and in an effort to contrast themselves with Bees and his allegded actions.
2) This tells me something about the attitude with which these men were raised.
Tonight on the news, in front of the cameras we have the exact same Taubokong Mohale saying:
“God, the Big Man upstairs, must see to it that justice is done.”
I wonder if that entails Taubokong Mahole torturing Bees Roux’s mother to death?
31 Aug 2010, 23:27 pm
The True Bees Story, confirmed by the robbery of his credit card.
‘It could not be ascertained that Mohale was on duty’. Either he was on duty, or he was not. ‘His colleagues who were with him were too traumatised to tell what occurred.’ The one witness, the security guard, said Roux was being hijacked. Mohale fell out of the car and hit his head on the road. If Mohale’s colleagues were witnessing him hijacking Roux’s car, they are just as guilty of crimminal activity. If Mohale was really on duty, he would have followed police procedure, had he been legitimately pulling Roux off the road. Had he been intent on charging Roux for some imaginary offense, he would have used his Metro police vehicle to take Roux to make a statement. Mohale did not radio the station, and report the incident, or request backup. Why? Because he was supplementing his salary, by night, hijacking and extorting money from motorists. Already 10,000 Policemen are in prison, convicted for crimes from rape, murder, robbery, extortion…. Of course Roux was suspicious. Any policeman who gives his buddies a motorist’s credit card, and sends them to McDonalds with it, and who insists on hijacking a private citizens vehicle, attempting to extract money from the citizen, holding the citizen hostage, is dodgy. I too, would have been terrified of being murdered and left in the veld, and for sure, if I was able, would try to defend myself. Roux had to defend himself, and managed to push Mohale out of his car. Unfortunately, Mohale’s head hit the tar first, and he succumbed due to that injury. This was an accident. Roux did not wilfully take Mohale’s life. Mohale bumped his head when he fell from the moving car. Roux did the best he could in the situation, to avoid being killed by Mohale, with his service pistol. I wonder what the press and police would be saying, if Roux was killed instead, by Mohale. Either way, I can see the police trying to cover up for Mohale. As with this situation, Mohale’s fellow officers are silent, but do know of Mohale’s nightly hijackings, to supplement his income. Unfortunately, Roux did not want to take a chance on his life that night, and tried to get the policeman out of his car, quite rightly. I cannot see that he had any choice, but to defend himself. I say he is innocent, and should never have been made to pay such an exhorbitant bail. My prayers are with Roux and his family.
“Belinda”
31 Aug 2010, 23:27 pm
JL1
oh right
31 Aug 2010, 23:31 pm
@Ray(rayoohoo@yahoo.com)-346:
I read that comment on Sport24 too.
31 Aug 2010, 23:54 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-335:
Please, Thorne is an aging dinasaur who’s due for a tradein except the AB’s got no one else. He fills no one with dread. Even his clean outs are cheap shots from the side.
1 Sep 2010, 00:08 am
@whatever(whatever)-349: Id rather Thorn then Matfield anyday, at least Thorn puts his body on the line EVERY game..
unlike Matfield who would be better served as a Metro cop directing traffic at a distance from the ruck..
1 Sep 2010, 00:11 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-345:
Mohale’s brother is Richard Taubokong.
1 Sep 2010, 00:18 am
Another protesting black woman had on a cardboard sign:
“How can you kill an innocent man or because he is KAFF*R”
1 Sep 2010, 01:34 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-350:
Thorne can’t even catch a cold from his mother dude.
Matfield is the man.
1 Sep 2010, 01:41 am
@Ray(rayoohoo@yahoo.com)-346:
Sounds like there is a heck of alot more to this than meets the eye. I only hope that the real truth comes out and that if guilty of murder he gets his just deserts BUT also if things are dodgy then an inocent man is not left out to dry in the sun!
1 Sep 2010, 02:04 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-345: So the guy’s brother has been (allegedly) murdered by Roux and there’s absolutely no room in your eyes for a bit of emotion at the court house, however misplaced. You’re a hard cunt, tit.
Also from you…
“2) This tells me something about the attitude with which these men were raised.”
… but Roux’s upbringing, however has been awesome, right?
1 Sep 2010, 02:09 am
@whatever(whatever)-349: He can still cover tackle Aplon though.
1 Sep 2010, 02:25 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-350: Thorn is a No.4 lock, it’s not really a like for like comparison. NZ’s Matfield equivalent is Donnelly. Agree though Thorn is a great player who could’ve been even greater if he had chosen Union, Matfield is obviously a legend.
1 Sep 2010, 03:32 am
@Muttonbird(Muttonbird)-355:
Yes, I am a hard cunt, Mutt.
The behavior of the protesters were the topic.
1 Sep 2010, 03:34 am
@Muttonbird(Muttonbird)-355:
It does definitely tell us something about Mohale’s family, or at least Richard Taubokong’s upbrining.
Shouting out load that he will get Bees Roux mother (who was alos present by the way), and that Bees is a “f*cking dog”, repeatedly.
Then when the cameras are on him, he says, may God judge and bring justice.
1 Sep 2010, 03:38 am
@Muttonbird(Muttonbird)-355:
“So the guy’s brother has been (allegedly) murdered by Roux and there’s absolutely no room in your eyes for a bit of emotion at the court house, however misplaced. You’re a hard ****, ***.”
This being South Africa, there has been plenty of examples where people have had family members raped and tortured to death, and going to court never threw abuse the way of the perps.
1 Sep 2010, 03:39 am
@Muttonbird(Muttonbird)-355:
I brought it up to show the self righteous attitude and ironic racism of the protesters.
1 Sep 2010, 04:40 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-361: Yeah, I read it. And the whole police dept was there, half of them sitting on the floor etc. Perhaps this was a case for a closed hearing. There has been a lot of talk in NZ recently about victim’s rights and how they are often overlooked while the emphasis in the legal system seems weighted in favour if the perpetrator.
In summary though, I think you are stirring by posting these “Bees in innocent” type articles and are pushing your own prejudiced agenda. Not helpful.
1 Sep 2010, 05:21 am
@Muttonbird(Muttonbird)-362:
If you actually read all my posts you would know that Im not posting “Bees is innocent type articles’.
I said before that in order to strengthen the law, it has to be tried and tested
And I’m not surpized that the whole department was there, they have a lot of explaining to do. And they need to get their story straightened out, that’s for sure.
1 Sep 2010, 05:22 am
@Muttonbird(Muttonbird)-362:
I’m not trying to stir, sir.
I would just like to emphasize a bit of human nature in these posts regarding the incident and the reaction from all corners.
1 Sep 2010, 05:27 am
@Muttonbird(Muttonbird)-362:
Are you a NZ’der?
1 Sep 2010, 07:39 am
#362 Mutt on Bird; and you of course know the absolute truth and have no prejudice? Are you Palestinian?
Just a larf. Snootie; I agree JdV had a good game; turned around again Mr Bigot I see. The rest of your postings are the normal racist, tik fuelled rubbish.
Good day, cur.
1 Sep 2010, 08:00 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-364: Justifying the crime?
1 Sep 2010, 08:13 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-367:
what
crime
?
1 Sep 2010, 08:20 am
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-368:
Killing
metro
cop
and
think
its
orait
1 Sep 2010, 08:22 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-369:
oh
you
mean the
alleged
crime
1 Sep 2010, 08:24 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-369:
and
where did
he say
that
he thought
it was
all right
?
1 Sep 2010, 10:53 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-369: And if he WAS being hijacked? Would you grant him the right to defend himself? (And don’t assume that because the newspapers have sold the story of this ferocious beating, that it is the case….might not be)
1 Sep 2010, 10:58 am
@Muttonbird(Muttonbird)-355: Mate unless you’re from SA you have very little idea what we live with daily. I, and 4 personal acquaintances I can mention off the cuff have been victims of crime perpetrated by cops. And I’m not talking about side of the road bribes either.
So don’t just immediately assume some big drunk racist ******** beat an innocent cop to death because he felt like it. The investigation will run it’s course and the truth will out…and I for one hope and believe that justice will be served, whatever happened that night.
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