Midfield marvels have more to give
1 Sep 2010
JON CARDINELLI writes Jean de Villiers and Jaque Fourie are already the world’s best centre pairing but more game time together will ensure they’re immortalised as all-time greats.
Last Saturday’s Test marked their first start as a combination since the 2009 Tri-Nations. Over the past five seasons, injuries, suspensions, questionable positional switches and overseas sojourns have prevented them from taking their centre partnership to new, unprecedented levels.
They’ve been limited to 21 appearances in five years, their best sequence of six consecutive matches coming in the victorious Tri-Nations campaign in 2009. When De Villiers and Fourie have operated in tandem, the Boks have won 17 Tests and lost four. A midfield combo cannot sway a result without a strong forward showing or sharp halfback display, but there’s no doubt this pair is an unrivaled force on both attack and defence.
Interviewed after the win at Loftus Versfeld, De Villiers admitted he was aware of the modest tally. Both players have surpassed 60 caps, but have only played one third of their respective careers as a combination.
De Villiers said he was aware of the win ratio, and his tone seemed to suggest that with more opportunities, this partnership could do more damage in future. Bakkies Botha and Victor Matfield have played 56 Tests together, and perhaps one day De Villiers and Fourie will be lauded for similar contributions.
The South African duo has been one of the best midfield combinations of the last decade, although it’s not uncommon to see great centre partnerships struggling to produce extensive runs. Ireland’s Gordon D’Arcy and Brian O’Driscoll complemented each other perfectly, while New Zealand’s Aaron Mauger and Tana Umaga were a potent blend of guile, physicality and explosiveness. What all three combinations have in common is that injuries affected the longevity of the partnership.
D’Arcy and O’Driscoll debuted in 1999 but only received their first opportunity to start together in 2004. The following six years saw them featuring 34 times, 24 of those on the winning side.
Umaga shifted from wing to centre around the same time an exciting talent from Canterbury got his international break. Unfortunately, the pair didn’t get many chances in the next five seasons. When Mauger and Umaga did play, they thrilled, and during a great period for the All Blacks, they were on the winning side 16 times in 18 Tests.
The comparison ends when you consider De Villiers (29) and Fourie (27) are still in their prime. They have more to give as a combination, and while eclipsing a record as formidable as that of Botha and Matfield is unlikely, they have to go to the World Cup with more caps as a unit.
De Villiers has played just two Tests at 12 this season and needs more game time. Some players will be rested for the Grand Slam tour, but he shouldn’t be one of them. Jaque Fourie has already had plenty of rugby this season, but solidifying a partnership as important as the midfield will benefit the Boks going into a World Cup year.
It presents the Bok coaching staff with a poser given the rise of Juan de Jongh. The 22-year-old is an exciting option at outside centre and can do a job at 12, and also needs opportunities. Should one of De Villiers and Fourie miss that global tournament in New Zealand, De Jongh will step in.
Those opportunities, however, are not as important as the ones afforded to South Africa’s first-choice combination. De Villiers and Fourie are already 15 Tests short of where they should be. They have some ground to make up. And after next year’s World Cup, a decision to move abroad could spell the end for a special pair. The next 14 months could be the last we see of them as a unit.
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167 Comments
1 Sep 2010, 05:22 am
Rooker
1 Sep 2010, 05:30 am
They both play for the Province hence the suck up.
They are great players but that *** Mossie does not ******* pass to the guys on the outside and Jean’s kicking out of hand is not that flash.
They are the best 2 in RSA and thats all they do wrong. What i do appreciate is they take responsibilty in defence. Thank-god not more Timotei.
On the side Habadonna nor FSteyn are not centres.
This position is where we have the biggest shortage of players.
Would love to have Ruan at either 12 or 13, great kicker out of hand, great distributor and awesome running lines form deep.
1 Sep 2010, 05:36 am
WO better than both.
1 Sep 2010, 05:45 am
3. Slartifartfast(Slartifartfast) IMHO never ever. The games have showed that.
1 Sep 2010, 05:53 am
JDV and fourie as a combo are the best SA has had for a while. the other established combo is the nonu and smith one. in nz they are claiming the nonu and smith combo as one of the all time greatest alongside the likes of little/bunce and some others.
imo over the years the jdv/fourie combo is a safer option. smith and nonu combined give away quite a few penalties. smith especially has gotten worse in the last few seasons and then he mouths off at the ref when he gets pulled up. nonu has improved considerably but is still a liability. come world cup time, i’d rather have a combo with a calmer outlook than smith and nonu. on playing ability the smith nonu is an awesome attacking force. they have yet to be tested defensively as the boks have quite got enough ball to do anything destructive yet.
1 Sep 2010, 05:56 am
Conrad and Ma’a are VASTLY superior on attack as well as defence.
1 Sep 2010, 05:58 am
@Slartifartfast(Slartifartfast)-3: WO = Wynand One-try?
1 Sep 2010, 06:01 am
@Slartifartfast(Slartifartfast)-3:
hehe…..stirer
1 Sep 2010, 06:03 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-6:
Nah mate, Nonu goes walk about on defence every now and again. Also has a HUGE attitude problem…….thinks he is bullet proof.
Will see his his naught soon!
1 Sep 2010, 06:28 am
@whatever(whatever)-8:
Whatever, they say the best form of flattery is when someone tries to copy you, but the old **** that posted that is a newcomer and poor imitator…not to mention his poor knowledge of the game of Rugby!
1 Sep 2010, 06:31 am
Sheesh, amazing censorship on this blog! You allowed saying the f-word as long as you use the past tense…but you can’t say f art?
1 Sep 2010, 06:43 am
when is bakkies back
the aussies love to rubbish us but they havent much to say this week on there rugby websites
1 Sep 2010, 06:44 am
aaron mauger & who???? Jc are you drunk?
1 Sep 2010, 06:48 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-10:hahahaha your nic has been stolen hahaha welcome to the club!!!
1 Sep 2010, 06:48 am
well i agree tackler conrad is so great but so what
doesnt take anything away from our centres who r also very good
1 Sep 2010, 06:49 am
Jacque Fourie is going to be upset, his own opinion of himself and that ego would never allow him sharing a best of honour.
take away the crash ball tactic and they are clueless.
1 Sep 2010, 06:51 am
jp should start on the wing with that other bulls wing Gerhard van den Heever
1 Sep 2010, 06:52 am
crash ball tactic i remember him running circles round the saders at newlands this year i also remember him scoring the worlds try of the year agaisnt the lions
1 Sep 2010, 06:53 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-16:
blah blah blah……….
1 Sep 2010, 06:56 am
Klippies.. You remember one time because it’s few and far between. Fourie does not distribute the ball, glory hunter like habana. Fact!!
Whatever- hey smallus dickus, still contributing wonderfully to the blog I see. Where’s the customary doos? Or have they taught you a new word in school this week?
1 Sep 2010, 07:00 am
i dont know if i agree u dont win those awards for nothing
but thats fine its all just opion anyway
(140, 28 tries) is nothing to sneeze at sure the abs centres may have more but still i wouldnt mind scoring 28 tries
1 Sep 2010, 07:02 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-14:
1 Sep 2010, 07:05 am
Put it this way klippies, would habs and jpp have scored more tries each playing outside smith and Nonu?
IMO I think they would have
1 Sep 2010, 07:08 am
Klippies. “apparently you don’t win those awards for nothing”
That’s funny, everyone here said that very thing when Ritchie won his second IRB player of the year award.
1 Sep 2010, 07:12 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-20:
Oi mate , I was not being nasty to you……….whats with your outburst? Having a bad day?
1 Sep 2010, 07:13 am
They are the best “PAIRING”, as individuals playing alongside others they havnt done too much. Thye will take us to the RWC11 and after that we can bring on JdJ/JF full time.
Bigger problems are the forwards where we dont seem to get clean front foot ball, without at least parity there you can forget any center pairing doing well.
There is no way Nonu is anywher near JdV, especially as JdV has been feathering his nest up North in ’10. Give him a season of S14 and he will be back. Mind you at 29 he probably only has one top season left. Nonu has huge ? mark over him, strong but not much guile and zero kicking.Mauger was a huge loss… Smith is class though.
1 Sep 2010, 07:15 am
Jaque Fourie is a big “wintie” whose mother can’t even spell his name. Faulty DNA, obviously.
1 Sep 2010, 07:15 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-24: Yeah in 09 when he had won f*ck all we did.
FdP should have had that award but somehow NZ seem to get their piggies into IRB … funny eh ?
No questions in ’10 that Reeeche should get “his” award (again)
1 Sep 2010, 07:16 am
i’m very much in agreement of this article
pitty the only other centre of class we have in SA is De Jongh
and he can cover both inside and outside centre
very very impressive
1 Sep 2010, 07:16 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-27: Really is that the best you can do ?
1 Sep 2010, 07:16 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-6:
Nah, even the relatively new combination of JdJ and Jaque showed Nonu and Smith up in the Super 14 this year. Jaque Fourie is the definition of determination to win.
However, JdV is looking off at the moment, he’s been playing too much pussywillow rugby up north, should be dropped to bench for the man from detroit, de Jongh.
1 Sep 2010, 07:16 am
@whatever(whatever)-9: Not to sure what your on about, Nonu hasn’t shown any attitude in the last few season, in fact I can’t remember the last time he was sin binned. He may have had one when he first began but now he’s focused on his rugby which has paid off. Fourie and JDV are great individual players but as a pairing not that great to be honest. JDV’s defence is suspect, he missed a lot on the weekend, well actually a lot of players did in that game.
1 Sep 2010, 07:18 am
oh i agree richie the all blacks captain is a legend i wouldnt take anything away from him
1 Sep 2010, 07:18 am
In NZ rugby the “combination” is never that of #12 and #13.
It’s #10 and #12: first 5/8 and second 5/8. There’s only one centre and he’s the #13.
1 Sep 2010, 07:18 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-27:
Thats harsh Tackler.
Whose to say how a name should be spelt? Is it Warrick or Warwick? Get a life you Yarpie pilgrim………
1 Sep 2010, 07:18 am
Bananas- all their little piggies?
Bwahahaha
Another Saffa living in paranoia over conspiracies
Tumeke bro, tumeke.
1 Sep 2010, 07:19 am
So A new zealand website does a piece on Nonu and Smith (the ‘Wonders’) and Jon Cardinelli all of a sudde feels the need to do a jdv/mossie (the ‘Marverls’) article
OPINION: They are chalk and cheese these
two. Yin and yang. Ebony and ivory. As
rugby players and personalities Conrad
Smith and Ma’a Nonu couldn’t be any
different if they tried, but together in the All
Blacks midfield their fusion is an
increasingly beautiful thing.
The growing evidence is that these
opposites not only attract, but they form a
hell of a tandem. Maybe one that’s now,
finally, deserving of being rated among the
best to have worn the black jersey.
Surely these two Wellington wonders are at
least in that conversation after a test season
– their third as the established midfield
combination – in which they’ve become
better and better. Frank Bunce and Walter
Little, Joe Stanley and Warwick Taylor, Bruce
Robertson and Bill Osborne, Aaron Mauger and Tana Umaga, Bill Davis and Ian MacRae
– and now Smith and Nonu.
As the Tri-Nations campaign draws to a
close, with just the All Blacks’ third Bledisloe
in Sydney (September 11) to go, and a 10th
title already tucked away, there have been
any number of reasons to reflect with deep
satisfaction around Graham Henry’s all-
conquering side.
Richie McCaw has completed his reinvention
as the best No 7 in the game, and sits
astride test rugby as its premier performer.
But there’s more. Kieran Read has emerged
as the world-class No 8 the team needed,
Keven Mealamu has been invigorated by his
uninterrupted run at hooker, the Franks
brothers have been unearthed as the gems
we suspected they might be, Mils Muliaina
has found a yard of pace, Cory Jane has
continued his dramatic progress on the
wing and youngster Israel Dagg has
become an impact man of staggering
dimensions.
We could go on. Brad Thorn, Tom Donnelly,
Piri Weepu, they’ve all been superb. Even
old Joe Rokocoko has rediscovered
something approaching his A game.
But in many ways the coming of age of the
Smith-Nonu combination in midfield has
been one of the most satisfying aspects of
all.
They are now delivering consistently
influential performances as a tandem,
clearly the best centre pairing in test rugby.
Nonu, of course, has been the big mover,
taking the meteoric qualities which he has
always had and finding the formula that is
enabling him to deliver quality
performances on a regular basis. He
remains a fabulous line-breaker – as
evidenced by his shoeless shuffle in Soweto
– but is now a resolute defender and a fine
distributor. His decision-making has
improved out of sight and that long, flat
pass he has off either hand is opening up a
world of opportunity for the speed
merchants outside.
Then there’s Smith. He’s always been a
consistent sort, a guy you could rely on to
put in a high work rate, low-error type
performance on a regular basis.
But now he has taken that to a new level,
finding holes with his running game,
making big plays at the breakdown, always
being in the right position to make tackles
and even popping up to finish movements
with four tries in his seven tests this year.
More so, as a combination they’re nearly
faultless. They feed off each other on attack
as you would expect from a duo who have
played together as much as they have. They
are also very well organised defensively
and their decision making – when to
straighten, when to shift it – is outstanding.
They are at their best when things open up
off turnover, as they did for Nonu so
splendidly in Soweto.
Bunce, one half of arguably the best
midfield the All Blacks have had, cites their
complementary characteristics as crucial to
their combination.
“You can’t get anywhere if both individuals
offer the same thing,” says the great centre
from the 90s. “These guys are totally
different, almost at extremes really.
“I’ve always admired the way Smith played
but I wasn’t convinced he had that
something extra. But the more I watch him,
the more I appreciate what he does, how
much tidying up he does, his defensive
work, his lack of mistakes – and he does
break the line. With him you know what
you’re going to get, and it’s always a high-
quality, low-error performance. You need
your stars, your linebreakers, but you need
your Conrad Smiths as well.”
And Bunce notes the “maturing” of Nonu
into a complete No12. “He’s still got all the
linebreaking, the explosiveness, but he’s
getting a lot more consistent now. And he’s
got strings to his bow. That last pass [to
Dagg in Soweto], how often in the past
would he have stepped and tried to have a
go.”
Former All Blacks captain Stu Wilson – who
played outside the great tandem of
Robertson and Osborne, says there’s no
doubt Smith and Nonu now belong in the
same conversation with the elite pairings.
“Nonu defies everyone in this country who
two or three years ago said he can’t catch,
can’t pass and can’t kick. I remember when
they said the same about Tana Umaga and
look how good he became. Nonu can kick,
and that pass to Dagg was just normal for
him. He distributes well now, and he
unloads in the tackle. They complement
each other so well, and that’s the reason
they’re gelling as a combination.”
And Wilson says the “heady” Smith is the
ideal foil for Nonu’s high-risk, high-reward
game. “He makes very few errors and his
judgement is so good. It’s that crucial 50-50
decision, do I pass, kick or run? Do I take it
up? He very rarely makes the wrong
decision. His 50-50 calls become the right
decisions and that’s why he so good.”
Grant Fox, who had Taylor and Stanley
outside him in the 1987 World Cup-winning
All Blacks, agrees that Smith and Nonu now
measure up with the best.
Nonu’s maturity, says Fox, has been crucial.
“He has continued to grow his skill set but
the biggest stride he’s made is mental. He
now fronts game after game and has
developed into a very consistent player.
He’s always had linebreaking skill, but his
defence and passing game now is superb.
“Smith has always been the guy you know
what you’re going to get week after week.
It’s interesting that people talk about ho important Smith is to Nonu, but I think Smith
plays better with Nonu because of the
threat Nonu is. They go hand in glove now,
and are equally important to each other.”
Bunce perhaps makes the key point when
he says he’s reserving his final judgement
on the incumbent midfielders.
“I don’t think they’re there yet, but that’s
probably just a little bit more time. All you
want is consistency of performance. It’s all
in their hands, and that’s the good thing
about it.”
Or, as Fox notes: “Absolute confirmation will
come with that silverware at the end of
next year.”
It’s the final peak for a pair which looks up
to the challenge.
The five best All Black centre pairings
(post- war).
Frank Bunce and Walter Little: Best mates
and played together for North Harbour, the
Chiefs and All Blacks. Complemented each
other perfectly, with Little’s subtlety and
Bunce’s sledgehammer a one-two punch of
perfection.
Bruce Robertson and Bill Osborne: The
prince of centres and his hard-hitting mate
from Wanganui hit their peak in the 1977
series against the Lions. Probably didn’t
play enough together for most people’s
liking.
Joe Stanley and Warwick Taylor: A couple of
honest performers who played well
together and critics believe were under-
rated components of the great ’87 Rugby
World Cup winners.
Tana Umaga and Aaron Mauger: Another
pairing with complementary skill sets.
Mauger was the distributor and Umaga the
linebreaker.
Bill Davis and Ian MacRae: Probably played
their best rugby together for Hawke’s Bay,
but the premier pairing of the ’60s.
And knocking on the door – Conrad Smith
and Ma’a Nonu: Have come of age in 2010
and look destined to be the Rugby World
Cup pairing of 2011. That looms as their
defining moment.
1 Sep 2010, 07:19 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-34:
Yeah well maybe they will get it right sometime!
1 Sep 2010, 07:19 am
but then i i do agree with this
Yeah in 09 when he had won f*ck all we did.
FdP should have had that award but somehow NZ seem to get their piggies into IRB … funny eh ?
No questions in ‘10 that Reeeche should get “his” award (again)
1 Sep 2010, 07:21 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-37:
jeez and the keewees call us arrogant…………
1 Sep 2010, 07:21 am
Kobus katty
Still waiting for you to tell me yet again how Spies is the worlds premier 8th man??
Lmfao.
1 Sep 2010, 07:22 am
conrad smith has scored (points)
2004– New Zealand 40caps (85 points)
so less trys than fourie i think
1 Sep 2010, 07:22 am
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-31: The Hurricanes struggled a bit at #10 (first-five) this year, so the men outside them could show their best form. In the AB they have the peerless Dan Carter filling that first-five gap.
1 Sep 2010, 07:22 am
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-31:
Fortunately S14 is not test rugby and that’s why your team got “molested” this year when it really counted.
1 Sep 2010, 07:23 am
@Kiwisamoan(Kiwisamoan)-32:
He always has an attitude when he is tackled. Watch him, he puffs his chest out and has a little push and a shove at anyone who touches him………use both eyes and maybe you will notice
1 Sep 2010, 07:24 am
Div: Too late for Bismarck
2010-08-31 22:36Email | Print
Bismarck du Plessis (Gallo Images)
Hendrik Cronjé
Bloemfontein – Hooker Bismarck du Plessis will only know after the Springboks’ tour to Europe at the end of this year where exactly he ranks in respect of the national selectors.
Coach Peter de Villiers said that there was no truth in Du Plessis being third in the pecking order following the neck operation that effectively ruled him out of the Tri-Nations.
“If we look back scrumhalf Fourie du Preez was once in a similar position to the one Bismarck finds himself in now. He (Du Preez) only played about three games for the Blue Bulls while we played in the Tri-Nations,” said De Villiers.
“I think it’s just a little too late to bring in Bismarck. He needs game time and it won’t help our cause to give him 30 or 40 minutes at a time.
“We will enter a conditioning phase after Saturday’s match (against the Wallabies). It’s just good to keep him on the field, give him the 80 minutes that he needs and then condition him with the rest of the team as part of a unit. We will then re-examine the situation at the end of the year.
1 Sep 2010, 07:24 am
Ma’a Allan Nonu
Club / team Caps (points
New Zealand 51 (80)
looks like both of them have scored less trys than the bok centres
1 Sep 2010, 07:25 am
@Papoose(papaown)-29: there’s no need to play these guys to the ground! We know what we have in them, we need to be working on depth on the eoyt! We can build momentum next year during the june tours and the shortened tri-nations…
The end of year tour needs to be used to test back-up combinations, to do anything else would be foolish!
1 Sep 2010, 07:27 am
Aaron Cruden is not yet a Carter, but he’ll grow into the role with a bit more high-level experience. Remember, he plays provincial rugby for the NPC minnows, Manawatu, rather than for the big snapper, Wellington. And he’s only a youngster at 21.
1 Sep 2010, 07:27 am
@whatever(whatever)-45: thats just Nonu’s agression. That however has not impacted his rugby which is the most important thing.
1 Sep 2010, 07:28 am
speaking of all blacks i always felt sorry for mose and marty hollah for not playing test rugby i thought they were both very good
pity bout bismark we need him back asap
1 Sep 2010, 07:28 am
Still not as arrogant as Fourie though aye whatever.
That man taks that award fer sure.
1 Sep 2010, 07:28 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-36: Not really, so if the IRB player of this year award goes to Juan Smith (our best player ’10) for instance you would be ok with this ?
I doubt it !
1 Sep 2010, 07:29 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-52: Agreed, he did make a *** of himself.
1 Sep 2010, 07:30 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-52:
Arrogance is arrogance …..there are no degrees.
You only buying WC finals tickets for 2011?
1 Sep 2010, 07:31 am
@whatever(whatever)-45: So, he doesn’t like being tackled? It happens so seldom that he has a right to be miffed. It’s as if he has not lived up to his high standards by allowing himself to be tackled. It’s a winning attitude.
1 Sep 2010, 07:33 am
@Kiwisamoan(Kiwisamoan)-50:
Not yet……. he’s a volcano waiting to erupt. Only a matter of time………
1 Sep 2010, 07:33 am
@bananas(bananas)-53: you know thats not going to happen well also know who’s going to get it this year again.
1 Sep 2010, 07:33 am
Whatever. Nah, I’m not arrogant like some. I want to be the best, don’t claim I am though.
So, what a generalisation. You assume all kiwis bought tickets for the final?
Me personally, I’d love to attend a final, regardless of whose playing.
1 Sep 2010, 07:34 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-56:
huh?? I suppose you like the smell of your own fa rts as well?
1 Sep 2010, 07:37 am
No degrees of arrogance whatever?
True
It wasn’t arrogant for many SA supporters to talk of incredible depth and world domination last year huh? Or the ole NZ rugby Iis K@k stories?
THATS ARROGANCE.
1 Sep 2010, 07:37 am
@whatever(whatever)-55:
Only because they want to cheer SA on in the final!
1 Sep 2010, 07:37 am
@whatever(whatever)-57: He rarely gets penalised and hasn’t been involved in any dirty play. So I seriously don’t understand what part of Nonu’s game thus far has even given you that impression.
1 Sep 2010, 07:37 am
@bananas(bananas)-53: Juan Smith didn’t play in either of the NZ tests and was anonymous in the SA test. He had one decent game in that shambolic razzle-dazzle no-defence test in Bloem. Not the stuff of an IRB POTY.
1 Sep 2010, 07:40 am
Bananas. I would be ok with Juan winning the award, he’s my fav SA player and the only true world class player in your team IMO
So no probs if he won it.
1 Sep 2010, 07:40 am
i dont agree at all juan smith is on of the nbest for sure
i have watched him for a long time and have always thought he is great
1 Sep 2010, 07:42 am
65 I should add that has graced the field THIS year.
1 Sep 2010, 07:44 am
schalk has played with year also i felt brussow was cheated for not winning it i cant wait for him to be back
1 Sep 2010, 07:46 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-61: is it equally arrogance for so many new zealand commentators to say springbok rugby is stuck in the past after the defeats in the tri-nations this year? Richard Loe,Taine Randell, Tony Johnson etc all have been basically saying the Boks are playing archaic rugby, is that arrogance?
1 Sep 2010, 07:46 am
Brussows over rated too. He had a fantastic rookie season, even against a just returned from injury McCaw
but his all round game pales in comparison
1 Sep 2010, 07:50 am
Trans. IMO yes it is…
But they were equally effusive in their praise of the boks last year from memory.
No declaration if war and Winning because you have seats to put bums on for a tourney NEXT year. Is that not also arrogance?
1 Sep 2010, 07:55 am
JdJ should do well in international rugby, he wont face WO
1 Sep 2010, 07:58 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-71: ‘declaration of war’ re conducting an enquiry on the Bok coach for a bullsh*t comment made off the cuff! You have to admit that whoever constituted that inquiry just wasted sanzar money on lawyer fees! That’s arrogance!
1 Sep 2010, 07:59 am
Trans
Is it arrogant to claim the Baabaas win last year as a SA win?
1 Sep 2010, 08:04 am
Nonu is a huge liabilty on defense, put the ball behind him and he’s clueless, turns like a freeking jumbo jet, he will always be targeted !!!
When Richie has retired I wonder if he will be remembered as a great player or as a great cheater…………I think in NZ the former……… in the rest of the world the latter !!!!!!
1 Sep 2010, 08:11 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-75: Sir Richard – in England and its former colonies
1 Sep 2010, 08:11 am
Ag net nie weer die klomp nie asb.
Good morning all.
1 Sep 2010, 08:12 am
Feel like braaing BEES tonite!
1 Sep 2010, 08:13 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-76:
Don’t think the English are to fond of him !!
1 Sep 2010, 08:17 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-75: I rate him as a great.
1 Sep 2010, 08:17 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-79: Big Hit has 3 posters of Sir Richard on his wall and ceiling! They just love him over there
1 Sep 2010, 08:19 am
@Staal(Staal)-80:
Player or cheater ?? or both ??
1 Sep 2010, 08:21 am
@Staal(Staal)-80:
No doubt he is a great player I agree 100%, but he will always wear the tag of a cheater, perhaps unfortunate but a fact !!!
1 Sep 2010, 08:25 am
Cant agree that Fourie and de Villiers are the best in the world . They are defensively sound but do not create try scoring opportunities anywhere near Nonu and Smith. SA midfield outplayed in all tests so far this year by the ABs.
SA backs are still constrained by the fact they are not able to create tries out of back line moves. They rely totally on forward momentum with the ball in hand. Habanas try scoring feats were usually through intercepts or counter attack through forward turn overs
@justrugby(justrugby)-75: Noone having much fun targeting Nonu at the moment. He hasn’t been a liability for a number of years now. He has greatly developed as a player.
Yes. When he retires McCaw will go down in history with all those other great cheats George Gregan, Joost van der Westhuizen ,Martin Johnston, John Eales, Cornie Kriger. Lawrence Dallaglio, George Smith etc etc
Harden up man. Don’t be a cry baby.
Winners are grinners. Losers moan to their mums about how the other boys were picking on them and ghow they won because they were cheating.
McCaw whether you like it or not will be the player that defines his generation. Get over it.
1 Sep 2010, 08:26 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-82: I rate him as a player.
I donnow what the problem is about him being called a cheater…. he does what all loosies do…
our try last weekend at the end came from Juan Smith “cheating” (if that is what they call it) by playing the ball on the ground…..
naw, imo Richie is a great.
1 Sep 2010, 08:31 am
@lapoftherugbygods(lapoftherugbygods)-84: Wonder how JdV and JF would have done with a no10 who can create something for them? Some space and halfgaps?
1 Sep 2010, 08:31 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-74: both sets of rugby fans are arrogant, case closed!
1 Sep 2010, 08:32 am
@Staal(Staal)-85: Agree
1 Sep 2010, 08:33 am
@lapoftherugbygods(lapoftherugbygods)-84:
Correct he is a legend and one of the players of this generation as you say, he will win the IRB player of the year again this year his 3rd title and 7th or 8th nomination no other player comes close to this. You have to laugh when other players have one good season and all of a sudden they own McCaw lol
1 Sep 2010, 08:33 am
mighty, you right, i wonder what the people will slaughter at the funeral ..probably a goat …i bet you it won’t be a bees
1 Sep 2010, 08:36 am
@lapoftherugbygods(lapoftherugbygods)-84:
Why is stating obvious facts viewed as moaning ??????
Nonu is cr ap on defence, maybe he has improved his direct defence, but if you can turn him he is vulnerable, time and time again this has been proved, the trick is to skilfully get him to turn , this is not always easy !!
I have not labelled him a cheat…….I have merely posed the question as to whether he will be remembered as a cheat !!!!
Talk about hardening the fark up !!!!!
Geeez sensitive soul you are !!!!
1 Sep 2010, 08:39 am
Fourie needs rest he has played a lot of rugby this year already. JDV needs gametime to re-establish himself in the Bok squad. A combo of JDV and JdJ would do great on the EOYT.
1 Sep 2010, 08:45 am
@lapoftherugbygods(lapoftherugbygods)-84: Remember that Nonu plays outside one of the best 10s of our time. Also AB fwds have cooked this year so it all looks good.
I dont rate Nonu but rate Smith and most of all Mauger who was pure class.
Reeche is a great player but very cynical which is not appreciated in SA. No emotion just a fact. There is no way he should have had the IRB award last year after FdP set the world on fire.
1 Sep 2010, 08:47 am
@I_support_BEES(suffer_guy)-90:
That’s insensitive and totally uncalled for you freekin moron !!!!!!
1 Sep 2010, 08:49 am
@bananas(bananas)-93:
Yes yes we all know FDP had a great season last year and should have won it, move on mate Richie has set the world on fire nearly every year he’s played, those are the facts as well.
1 Sep 2010, 08:50 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-94:
You just couldn’t ignore it could you.
1 Sep 2010, 08:55 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-64: Sure and what did Reeche do in 09 exactly ? He was as you said coming back from injury ….. ?
1 Sep 2010, 08:56 am
They will also play together in the Super 15 next year, so give them both off during the end-of year tour.
1 Sep 2010, 08:56 am
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-96:
It should not be ignored !!!!!
1 Sep 2010, 08:58 am
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-95: No problem, I rate Reeche and dont understand the hate he gets from some SA fans. Just labouring my point as most posters do on here …
1 Sep 2010, 08:59 am
@bananas(bananas)-97:
Maybe they felt guilty for not giving it to him in 08′ when clearly he was worlds best player again, he didn’t derserve it in 09′ and most people from NZ will tell you that. If his name was Steyn and he played for the Bokke we both know it would be a different story.
1 Sep 2010, 09:00 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-75:
Well lucky we dont care what the rest of the world thinks about Richie. Hes the best Flanker going around and has been for years.
Now if Richie was useless you would like him and says he plays by the rules. But seen as he is so good he must cheat and everyone hates him.
Thing is name one international team in the top 5 that would not have him
1 Sep 2010, 09:01 am
@bananas(bananas)-100:
They hate him becuase he’s so good, they also didn’t like Fitzy for some reason?
1 Sep 2010, 09:01 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-102:
the
bulls
1 Sep 2010, 09:04 am
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-104:
Bulls???
I said name one INTERNATIONAL team not NATIONAL.
Good reading
1 Sep 2010, 09:04 am
McCaw = on par with Juan Smith (the Tendulkar of rugby) ..
1 Sep 2010, 09:04 am
Richie McCaw is brilliant player. He has been on the scene longer than Burger, but the one is still the most competitive guy on the ground, while the other had a great work rate and had to change his game because he is not quick enough anymore to be a factor on the ground.
On the Nonu issue. In a crunch World Cup semi or final one of the most important players are the guys in the midfield that can set up front foot ball and whose defense is rock solid. Every once in a while Nonu has a shocker and I believe he will cost the ABs in a big game come WC time. You have to compare him with Fourie and for me there is no comparison. The Aussies are also really missing a Mortlock type player.
1 Sep 2010, 09:05 am
Legendary Centre pairings of years gone by:
JDV-Fourie
Horan-Little
Little-Bunce
Du Plessis-Gerber
D’Arcy-O’Driscoll
Guscott-Carling
I’m sure there’s more but these spring to mind first….
1 Sep 2010, 09:05 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-105:
bulls
no 1
international
team now
ab’s follow
then boks
then
oz
1 Sep 2010, 09:07 am
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-109:
stormers
no 5
1 Sep 2010, 09:08 am
@Horings(Horings)-107:
Doesn’t every player have a shocker once in a while, he still out ran the Bokke defense in his socks…
1 Sep 2010, 09:09 am
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-109:
Think they might be a little light in the propping dept next season.
1 Sep 2010, 09:09 am
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-101:
If most people including NZ’s believe he did not deserve it in ’09 , I wonder why he did win it then ??? Just a general question, not directed at you !!
1 Sep 2010, 09:10 am
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-112:
then
maybe
not
1 Sep 2010, 09:13 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-113:
Good question, maybe the get SA campaign has been started up again and the world is conspiring to take SA down.
1 Sep 2010, 09:18 am
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-109:
Nope you have it wrong. The table looks like this.
#1 Abs
#2 Leicester
#3 Saracens
#4 Boks
#5 OZ
Get the idea
1 Sep 2010, 09:22 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-113:
He didnt play to the standard that we were use to,does not mean he played bad.
Thing is what alot of people dont take into account is not only his offense but his defense and his presence in the ABs make it a different team. Hes the captain and can change the look of the ABs by just being there,hes more than just a fetcher to NZ
1 Sep 2010, 09:23 am
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-115:
Well from a rugby perspective maybe
, but hey we just piss everybody off by winning WC’s , makes the IRB piss blood !!!!!!
Now just to win it NZ !!!!
1 Sep 2010, 09:23 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-116:
you have
no
idea
see my
post
109
1 Sep 2010, 09:25 am
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-111: Playing fantasy testrugby I know his form is very indifferent for the Hurricanes, but he has strung a few good games in a row for the ABs, so he could have improved in that area. If he played for the Boks he would have been a concern for me personally.
The same had been the case with Montgomery in the 2007 WC, where up and unders are a big part of a final and I felt Monty was not as sound under the high ball. He did very well though.
1 Sep 2010, 09:26 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-117:
Look good luck to him, just can’t help but wonder how FDUP must of felt, who in 2009 had a great season ??
1 Sep 2010, 09:27 am
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-119:
Yeah i saw it. My post stands,get the idea
1 Sep 2010, 09:30 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-118:
win it in NZ
1 Sep 2010, 09:31 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-121:
He had a great year,i am not doubting that.
I honestly understand where you are coming from as well,but thats not the only year where someone won it and its got questioned. When that little welsh winger won it ( Name forgotten ) ,who thought he was the best? Not me. But you would find a few NH people thought he was the best. Cant please anyone. I think in that year McCaw was awesome,but you cant win em all
1 Sep 2010, 09:33 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-124:
Cant please anyone = Cant please everyone
1 Sep 2010, 09:34 am
@Horings(Horings)-120:
Monty the legend he managed to fix his butterball hands in the twilight of his career thank god and go on to be a legend, still would you really rate him up there as a class fullback when you look at his ENTIRE career?
1 Sep 2010, 09:35 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-124:
True !!
1 Sep 2010, 09:38 am
To all NZ bloggers……………….see the “love to hate ” relationship most of us SAFFA’s have with Ritchie as a mark of respect !!!!!!!!
Well except for HG of course
Cheers all, till later !!!
1 Sep 2010, 09:39 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-128:
Cya Rugby
Have a good one
1 Sep 2010, 09:40 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-128:
Cheers mate
1 Sep 2010, 10:11 am
Fark what a lot of temperamental wining chewawas!
1- Smith & Nonu are NOt vasly superior That is a mentally retarded comment, mate u lost the plot go review some games or see a doctor or just shut up..
2- if WO was better he would have prooved so in his 30 odd tests appearances in all hus test games he has been ****! I have always backed him in Super but he just can’t make the changes by looks if things.
1 Sep 2010, 10:18 am
Fourie is ok in attack, but when he comes up against Real Line breakers and Tackle breakers like Nonu and Toeava he is a liability on defense because he is so tall and takes a long time to get down to tackle. I remember the Blues – Stormers game, the Stormers won mainly because Andries Bakker was unstoppable in the lineouts and ball carrying, but Fourie was completely owned by Toeava. Toeava consistenly broke the line at will, and had about a million metres gained. I rate Jean De Villers as the best #12 in the world, but the best outside centre would have to be Conrad Smith, and before Smith it was Stirling Mortlock. It was never Fourie.
1 Sep 2010, 10:30 am
You can’t just count the try scored by 12/13 to measure their effectiveness. Count the trys scored by 11/14 & 15 too when a particular 12/13 combination is playing. I haven’t got the stats, but I’d put $’s to donuts that Smith/Nonu come out WAY ahead of JDV/JF on this basis. And also on team winning percentage when each pair has played.
1 Sep 2010, 10:41 am
Just get Butch James at 10, and J&J will be back to their best!!! Steyn plays to deep, and thats when he is killing his centres. Becuase he cant get them over the advantage line!!Butch will!!!
1 Sep 2010, 10:42 am
yeah, yeah
sure they are
whatever you say
just one question…….
Was the opening sentence directly sourced from Fourie himself ?
1 Sep 2010, 10:51 am
Yeah so true , these two guys are very good combination. Can still go strong untill the WC next year. Surely we have enough backup. So someone recons the priest might be axed
1 Sep 2010, 11:30 am
Goodbye Adi Jacobs
1 Sep 2010, 11:31 am
This article is a nonsense. How can they be the best centre combo when neither of the two can even pass? and people wonder why Bok wings get no ball. Nonu and Smith aren’t much better but they are better. Jauzion and Bastareaud too.
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-101: Shane Williams was the best player in ’08, he ran rings around everyone.
1 Sep 2010, 11:33 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-91: Nonu has come up against the best defenses in the world and been on the right side of the ledger most of the time. Are they leaking tries in midfield. No. The AB midfield is very solid and has been for a number of years. Opposition aren’t scoring tries down his channel. Name a test where they have in recent memory.
If he was **** he would of been gone long ago.Henry isnt a romantic. He doesnt hold onto players if he thinks they cant perform. Nonu owns the 12 jersey at the moment. Mcallister and Stanley are clearly in his shade.
1 Sep 2010, 12:46 pm
@bananas(bananas)-97:
What did McCaw do in 2009 ?
He was ABs best player in TriN – contrary to SA opinions, it is still possible to play well in a losing side (eg J.Smith in JoBurg). Safas also delight in saying McCaw was outplayed by Brussow in 2009. Despite the fact the stats show Brussow no more than ‘matched’ McCaw in the breakdown, alone, McCaw was very prominent at lineout, as a ball-carrier, at re-starts and as a link man. Brussow did not figure there whilst McCaw was outstanding in all facets throughout and, in particular, on the EOYT vs Aus, Wales, Italy, Engl and France. The matches vs Aus and France, McCaw was immense, making tries and scoring them too – and he collected 2 x MoM on this EOYT.
If the ‘Year’ was confined between June and August only, then I personally would have given it to FdP who was superb throughout BIL Series and also through TriN. It must be nb’ed, however, that both M.Phillips and W.Genia were not outplayed there. The season does not start and end there though – on the Boks EOYT, FdP was so poor he was subbed off in both losses to Ireland and France. Now Transformation informs me that, for some unknown reason, the International season laps over the calendar years and not confined between Jan – Dec. Which makes it trickier. But if, indeed, the final 6mths of 2008 is ‘joined’ with the 1st 6mths of 2009 to make the season – and thereby when to judge a players form from-to – then also remember FdPs’ form the previous year with another poor EOYT and a TriN that ended being nilled at Newlands and subbed there too. McCaw was immense that day….
1 Sep 2010, 12:58 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-138:
Shane “One hit wonder” Williams,nah stll wasnt good enough in 2008. McCaw was better
1 Sep 2010, 13:12 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-138:
Its impossible to cherrypick a few games where SW played well enough to pick up a Player of the YEAR Award whilst ignoring others who performed for the whole 12mths.
If FdP was more ‘worthy’ in 2009 than McCaw despite mixing the sublime with the sub-average, and Williams wins it from a handful of games too, then it makes a (further) mockery of an entirely subjective Award.
Knowing your distaste of the IRB Rankings system, I find it hard to believe you have a clearer opinion on individual awards which are grossly more subjective and do not have results upon which to judge.
Which was a greater shock – SW winning in 2008 or McCaw in 2009 ? The fact that it was 1 player contending in both (and other) years tells you all you need to know. The Award is not on 1 or 2 games of individual brilliance but in maintaining the highest standards over many.
1 Sep 2010, 13:21 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-140: Bp I wouldn’t have thought that, Its an “annual” award which means it should just be about the season/years performance and nothing more. I believe it should also only take into consideration the performances in Tests – not sure if thats how it works or if subjectively other performances are included
1 Sep 2010, 13:32 pm
This was funny
New Zealand Rugby
Commentators Handbook: An
extract
By Ray Hartley
Posted in General
Stumbled across these pages torn from the
New Zealand Rugby Commentators
Handbook …
C: Dealing with defeat
Remember that an All Black team may lose a
game, but it is never beaten by an
opponent. Example: “The All Blacks have
played way below their potential today.
They have only themselves to blame for
losing ”. Or: “It might have been a different
story if X had not been injured, or taken out
in my opinion, early in the game ”. A very
good alternative is: “The All Blacks just
didn’t take this game seriously enough after
their runaway victories of the past ten
years ”.
Never, ever say things like: “The Springboks
are truly the best team in world rugby, they
have shown the All Blacks who is boss ” or
“Wow. That was an awesome Springbok
performance and now we know why they
won the World Cup. ”
D: Use of language
Words play such an important part in rugby
commentary, so choose them carefully. For
example we use the word “pass” to
describe the movement of the ball between
All Black players, but the words “forward
pass” to describe the same thing done by
an opposing team.
The addition of an adjective can really work
wonders. So the All Blacks get “well-
deserved penalties” and the opposition get
“unfortunate penalties”.
Referees always apply the law harshly to
the All Blacks, but miss important infractions
by the opposition. Example: “Aw, how could
the ref not see that Smit was smashing his
head against Vickerman ’s fist? And now he’s
given an unfortunate penalty against the All
Blacks. ”
E: Tries by friend and foe
Remember that all tries scored by the
opposition are suspect and were not
properly grounded. Example: “Habana
bursts through, there’s no one near him.
He’s under the posts. Did he ground that
properly? Referee should ask the TMO. That
looked suspect to me. ”
All Black tries are always grounded, even in
the most unlikely of situations. Example:
“ January gets the ball, he’s tackled! Did the
tackler knock it out of his hands and apply
downward pressure. The ball was definitely
grounded under that mound of bodies and
it looked like an All Black hand to me. Can
you believe the ref didn ’t ask the TMO? This
could swing the game.”
In a situation where the opposition scores
more tries than the All Blacks, tries should be
downplayed. Example: “The Springboks
have been awarded that suspect try but
Dan Carter ’s boot is still the big points maker
in this game. Isn’t he having a blinder?”
When the All Blacks score more tries, this is a
better?approach: “Montgomery can kick
until he’s blue in the face, but the All Blacks have scored more tries and we all know
that ’s really what rugby is all about.”
1 Sep 2010, 13:50 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-141: no, Williams was better. McCaw was even out injured for a couple of the 3N games. I’m willing to bet like many calling for McCaw’s win that year you didn’t even watch the Wales games.
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-142: Williams was good in EVERY game. I know because I watched them all. NZ’s media cried long and hard about Richie and as a result the whole system for choosing the IRB player of the year was overhauled, now we have a **** system whereby a dud winner was chosen in ’09 along with a load of dud nominations.
1 Sep 2010, 14:03 pm
“….Jean de Villiers and Jaque Fourie are already the world’s best centre pairing…”
LMAO so JON CARDINELLI is a COMIC
Joke of the year
1 Sep 2010, 14:25 pm
@bananaboy(bananaboy)-143:
I, too, presumed it was an ‘Annual’ award adjudged between Jan – Dec. However, Transformation is adamant that it is not. Given his keen eye for discrepancies, Im sure he will be along shortly to disclose his findings.
Either way, lets remember this Award is for cvonsitently high play over a 12mth ‘season’ and not awarded for isolated Tests when a player performed outstandingly whilst disregarding others where he was not or, indeed, poor.
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-145:
He was good in most games of the 2008 6N. He never seems to stick out during the EOYT when the opposition are of a higher quality (and, dare I say it, Lord Barry, higher-ranking too).
Dont get me wrong, I think he was superb at times too. But to say on 1 hand that McCaw in 2009 was a ‘shock’ but that SW was not in 2008, well I think you may have lost your objectivity there old boy.
To say McCaw was, in any way, a “dud” in 2009 suggests to me that you completely missed the Autumn Series. McCaw was immense and collected 2 MoM’s – watch ABs vs France (Marseille) and Aus (Hong Kong) and tell me who you think was the most dominant player on the pitch. The ABs were unbeaten in those 5 consecutive Tests with McCaw prominent in ALL.
1 Sep 2010, 14:33 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-145:
BTW – I not only ‘watched’ it but from the comfort of my seat in the stadium. SW played well that day but I dont even think he was the best Welsh player that day. Wales had to take a 29-9 beating that day, a couple of jinking-runs aside, what did SW produce ? certainly not tries.
1 Sep 2010, 14:48 pm
@Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-134: Why was Wynand Olivier the best centre in the super 14 because he got good ball from Morne Steyn. So he is not close to killing anyone. You should probably stop commenting or you could kill me by laughting to much at you. Dude do you even think what you are commenting? Really. Why is Steyn not having a great year is because he does not have a real no.9 and no.12 to work with. Thats why he always are the best in super 14 because he has a great 9 and 12. WYNAND OLIVIER is and will be our best inside centre
1 Sep 2010, 15:06 pm
“…there’s no doubt this pair is an unrivaled force on both attack and defence.”
In defence maybe…but on attack, no.
How many tries have they created for the players on their outside? Not too many if you ask me. They can’t even create space for their wings. The poor wings have to go and look for the ball in other areas if they want to touch it.
1 Sep 2010, 15:15 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-144:
Is this for real.
@Spieeeees(Spieeeees)-149:
He performs well in the S14 because his pack, in most instances, dominate play. In the Bok set up the pack don’t.
He should be able to play well behind a losing pack also. He hasn’t show that he can do that up to now.
1 Sep 2010, 15:21 pm
@Spieeeees(Spieeeees)-149: Wynand Olivier is not a BOK centre!!! Nothing wrong with Morne! If we had a half decent backline coach things will also improve at the back!
1 Sep 2010, 16:06 pm
@nama1(nama1)-151: what do you mean it this for real? I got this from the sunday times website!
1 Sep 2010, 16:20 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-153:
It can be a spoof.
1 Sep 2010, 16:39 pm
Crazy statement.
Our centres are good, but in terms of linebreaking and creative attacking we along way off the french, ozzies, kiwis and irish.
1 Sep 2010, 17:49 pm
JdV and Mossie are not the best centre combo in world rugby. How could they be?
Were they the centre combo for WC 2007?
No.
Were they the centre combo against the BI Lions?
No.
Is there a better pair on attack?
Yes. Smith/Nonu
Is there a better pair on defence?
Yes. Basteraud/Jauzion, JdJ/Mossie even.
Is there a better distributing pair?
Yes. Roberts/Hook
Where are they outstanding as a pair? Nowhere.
Mossie carries Donkey DeVilliers in this relationship.
Time for a new combo. this one does not cut it contrary to conventional clearly subjective “wisdom”.
1 Sep 2010, 19:42 pm
@Slartifartfast(Slartifartfast)-3: I agree WO is the best hiar product model of them all, but centre? Please get serious!!! His selection even in the Bulls tema will be forever be one of life’s greatest mysteries to me. If Ettienne Botha didin’t tragically die WO would never have gotten a chance in the Currie Cup! Comparing Olivier to greats like JdV and JF is like comparing Eddie Andrews to Tommie Loubser, JJ vd Walt to Carel du Plessis, Jannie Claassens to Danie Gerber – it can only happen in fantasy land.
The Sharks are probably smiling endlessly that WO is back for the Bulls this coming weekend. Just as the Pumas did last week.
1 Sep 2010, 20:12 pm
Hi Jon, you are one hell of a comedian. JDV is only good if you look threw WP glasses. Fourie’s is definitely the better of the 2 but is not close to the best in the world as he so widely proclaims. Look at the stats and fact before you make such ridiculous statements!!!! I think you must rather apply at WP as a selector or something like that. One thing JDV definitely leads is missed tackles!
1 Sep 2010, 20:27 pm
@GoTheBulls(GoTheBulls)-158: Only a Bull supporter. JDV is not the best inside centre in the world but very close. What stats?
2 Sep 2010, 08:26 am
Hold on Mate, JDV and Fourie are formidable, but they are not the best pairing.
Conrad Smith is close to the best Centre in the world, he organises the all blacks defence makes good decisions on attack, links well and finishes. Nonu I have always disliked, I thought he was one dimensionable, but I have been proven wrong by his work over the past couple of years. Nonu looked good last year against the boks in a side that looked awful.
Nonu and Smiths combination is absolutely vital to the way the All Blacks play the game… and right now the All Blacks are the best side playing the best rugby how can you say under those circumstances that the bok pairing is the best? maybe you should have included the smith/nonu pairing in your analysis, leaving them out makes it seems like your hiding something!
all black games: Nonu played:51 won:44 Smith pld:40 won:36
2 Sep 2010, 08:37 am
@Suidkapenaar(Suidkapenaar)-157: WO is a flippen good Currie Cup and S15 centre but when it comes to International games he is nowhere!!
2 Sep 2010, 11:18 am
Man what was he smoking when he wrote that.
Saying that they will be immortalised as greats, haha.
The Bokke have the weakest attacking backline with ball in hand than almost any other top team I can think of. They have moments, but most of the time they are boring, lacking in vision and give very poor distribution outside of them. Alot of that is due to coaching and the style of rugby they are encouraged to play that isn’t based around running rugby.
3 Sep 2010, 03:22 am
To get it out of the way 1st!
. Yes I am an All Black supporter but I decided recently to read SA websites about Rugby to see an “SA point of view”. To be honest the way SA was playing and more particularly your coach prompted me… I couldn’t understand how such a team with such great history as SA could allow De Villiers to stay around – both for his crazy outbursts and the boring (sorry yes it is) way he has SA playing. Who would be a winger in SA team? They never see ball unless it is kicked to them!…. Now re this centre pairing thread… whew…. you have got to be kidding re SA centres best in the world… The joke around a people I watch with including people from SA, UK, Aus is “who were the SA centres today?”… they have been almost invisible as attacking forces in Tri Nations… I suggest Nonu/Smith as the benchmark today…and yes Nonu was 1 dimensional 2 years ago… but do you actually watch his distribution now, both left and right? And Conrad Smith.. well when great past and present players, plus coaches rave about him what can you say? His angles, straightening the line, distribution, support play, thinking etc… and when does he ever miss a tackle? PS. I hope you keep De Villiers as it make out chances of winning the world cup better… so bottom line I agree with many others in this thread, sorry but your current test style is soooo boring … and strange when you have the players to play the fast high skill game that (yes… be honest) nearly everyone wants to watch and will pay money to watch
4 Sep 2010, 02:00 am
@bananas(bananas)-100:
The hate is because he is SOOOO good, petty jealousy’s then arise.
He is unquestionably the best player on the planet, so his rivals look to tear him down by fair means or foul, but he always remains calm and composed.
The man is a legend.
6 Sep 2010, 10:01 am
@Zandberg Jansen(Zandberg Jansen)-152: Dude you obviously dont know anything about rugby. Wynand does harder work than Jean de Villiers and is more dangerous. Jean does not have the balls to do crash balls or any hard runs. All that he is good for is his intercepts. De villiers’s knees wont hold until 2011 world cup. he does not have the strenght or the speed to match guys like nonu, jauzion or james hook
6 Sep 2010, 10:03 am
@Zandberg Jansen(Zandberg Jansen)-159: Go look at the stats you clown. so what if his a bulls supporter. im a OP supporter. your probably a WP choker
6 Sep 2010, 10:05 am
@GoTheBulls(GoTheBulls)-158: THIS MOFFIE KNOWS WHAT HIS TALKING ABOUT. YOU SHOULD BE PRESIDENT
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