Bring back Jake
7 Sep 2010
SIMON BORCHARDT says Jake White should be appointed Springbok caretaker coach until the end of the World Cup.
White has been criticised for trying to get his old job back instead of supporting Peter de Villiers, who is having a nightmare 2010 season similar to White’s in 2006. However, it’s worth remembering that White inherited a team ranked No 6 in the world in 2004 and was still building that team in 2006 when everything fell apart. De Villiers inherited a team ranked No 1 in 2008 and on Saturday fielded the most experienced Bok XV in history with 750 caps. You simply cannot compare 2006 to 2010, and White’s credibility would suffer if he came out in support of what De Villiers and his assistant coaches have been doing.
It has become abundantly clear that De Villiers does not have what it takes to be a success at this level. He lacks technical knowledge of the game and relies heavily on senior players for direction, is a poor man manager (evident by his fallout with Frans Steyn) and is unable to make difficult decisions (like dropping a horribly out-of-form Bryan Habana). He has also been a disaster off the field, making several comments that have brought the game into disrepute and made him, and the Boks, the laughing stock of world rugby.
Saru must get rid of De Villiers now, while there is still time for a new coach to steer the SS Springbok away from the looming iceberg. But I agree with White that it would be unfair to appoint someone like Allister Coetzee as Bok coach just 12 months out from the World Cup with no guarantee that he will stay on beyond the tournament (how many coaches survive a poor World Cup campaign?). A long-term appointment like Coetzee needs time to settle into the job, and while it may seem opportunistic for White to throw his hat into the ring now, he genuinely seems to believe that he can get the team back on track. And so do I.
White has coached most of the players in the current Bok side. He has an outstanding technical knowledge of the game. He is not afraid to make difficult decisions. He knows what not to say at press conferences. And he knows what it takes to win the World Cup.
White’s offer to become Bok caretaker coach before handing over to Coetzee (who he says should have gotten the job in 2008) after the World Cup should be seriously considered by Saru over the next couple of weeks. Regan Hoskins was reportedly upset with some of the things White had to say about him in his autobiography, but the Saru president should not allow that to cloud his judgement and prevent him – and his executive – from doing what is best for Springbok rugby.
It’s time for Saru to stop De Villiers’ circus act and get serious about the Boks’ World Cup defence. It’s time for White’s return.
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711 Comments
7 Sep 2010, 08:14 am
Ag snot! Dragons!
7 Sep 2010, 08:15 am
Ek bedoel eintlik….. ek verskil met wilde aantuigings en stellings in die media.
7 Sep 2010, 08:15 am
Regardless of whether this is a realistic solution, Jake shouldn’t have blabbed his intentions to the media like this.
His conversations with Hoskins, Jones etc… should have remained private until a decision had been made.
This just adds more pressure to an already tough situation.
7 Sep 2010, 08:17 am
SIMON, waar val jy uit?
7 Sep 2010, 08:19 am
getting jake white back would be a major mistake…
for purely rugby reasons…
‘experts’ are already bemoaning the fact that the Boks have stood still (or gone backwards) while the ABs and Oz have progressed since last year…
jake is so stubborn that he is ALWAYS right that he’d have us playing rugby circa 2007 ‘because it won a world cup’…
we struggled this 3N without a genuine fetcher… but jake is the king of the ‘we-don’t-need-a-fetcher-exept-to-fetch-beer’ brigade… jake has already said that he would not select Heinrich Brussow…
and people seriously think re-appointing jake would be an improvement…?
ui would be a major step backwards… IMO…
forget the less-than-integrity-filled way in which he has gone about it…
and just to remind everyone… jake was not fired…
he told SARU four or five months before the WC that he would NOT be available for another contract… they then went about advertising for and contracting another coach… they had no reason to offer or re-appoint him to a job he had already said he did not want…
as pissant has said… it’s time for cool, hard analysis of just what and where things have gone wrong and then make hard but informed decisions about how to fix things…
7 Sep 2010, 08:19 am
“and is unable to make difficult decisions (like dropping a horribly out-of-form Bryan Habana)”
What about Spies and Plod….F-off Simon!
7 Sep 2010, 08:20 am
i’m not saying the must get jake back, but surely PDV must go!
7 Sep 2010, 08:20 am
bwuhahaha im pretty sure pdv has done something to the guys at keo – did he turn down an exclusive interview or just ignore you?
lets say Jake “im right because im” White takes over and he doesnt deliver then what? will he be clown as well?
Appointing Jake now will throw the team into utter chaos and disarray.
At this stage(one year out) The senior players are the key to winning next year if you take pdv out the senior players won’t be happy with their guarantor away and without them we may as well not turn up next year.
7 Sep 2010, 08:21 am
Unfair to Allister Coetzee …. WAT DE HEL gaat hier aan?
Wonder hoe moet Heynecke voel?
ag nee wat… ons het die perd opgesaal, nou moet ons hom ry! Must honestly say that i would not mind if Jake gets the job….. IF THERE IS A JOB AT ALL!
PdV sal ons coach wees tot einde WC2011…. live with it.
The circus has come to town…..
7 Sep 2010, 08:21 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-6: I said LIKE … it was one example. I agree that Spies and Smit should have been dropped too.
7 Sep 2010, 08:24 am
That said, this idea has merit. Jake’s best stint with the Boks was during the World Cup when he had the technical skills of Eddie Jones to complement his man-management skills.
And it would ensure that a brand-new coach would not have his own fledgling international career destroyed by a hugely difficult task in taking on this responsibility so soon before the WC.
Furthermore, it would be especially attractive to those in SARU who want to see a “transformed” coach remain in the hot seat (ie: Coetzee) without the risk of him failing so soon.
Essentially, White is prepared to be the sacrificial lamb and it would be silly not to consider his offer.
7 Sep 2010, 08:24 am
@ufo(ufo)-5:
” it’s time for cool, hard analysis of just what and where things have gone wrong and then make hard but informed decisions about how to fix things…”
Sure… but if i may ask a question… who’s gonna do it?
7 Sep 2010, 08:25 am
@Staal(Staal)-1:
Draak verkoue?
@WestAussieBok(WestAussieBok)-3:
Oh well, don’t tell the others but I think JW is just having some fun with the clowns at the circus. He knows he has somewhere between niks en f-ol change of saru back tracking and asking him to come back. To taunt them he even had the AC carrot dangling in front of the. Not sure what the clowns made of it but he had skop taking an extra pull on his morning zol and Mighty above has been throwing cornflakes at his screen util he realised he is mucking up his key board in the process.
Expect many more to ‘ave a go’ at the carrot to much joy for JW…
7 Sep 2010, 08:27 am
“if i may ask a question?… dit klink nie reg nie…
moet dit nie wees…
If i may ask…..
nie seker nie… waar Tackler? Hy sal my gou reghelp!
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-13:
7 Sep 2010, 08:27 am
Simon are you mad?? That will be a huge backward step. How can you people vote yes on the poll? Jake is a sneaky b a s t a r d he knows the Boks are going to peak next year because the exact same thing happened to him. This whole thing stinks!
7 Sep 2010, 08:28 am
@Simon(Simon)-10: Why didnt you clearly stated that in your article? Alot of people just read what is written in your article and not necessarily the comments.
7 Sep 2010, 08:29 am
Are you on drugs Simon? Jake White is no rugby messiah. If I remember correctly, a year out from the World Cup people were calling for him to be fired and replaced by someone else to do an ambulance job.
Jake harps on about de Villiers not changing – what about him and his views on a fetcher? Would he have selected Brussouw last year? Nope. He has made it clear that he wouldn’t drop Smit, and I doubt he would make the “tough decisions” which he keeps going on about, to drop any of his World Cup winners.
Jake White is a bl00dy agent. He has already contacted Eddie Jones, even although the job isn’t available, and also says that Alistair Coetzee should get the job after the World Cup – arrogant fool. It is clear he hasn’t moved on since 2007.
7 Sep 2010, 08:30 am
Ek glo ook Snor het nie die kennis om op die vlak af te rig nie. Die man het dan nooit eers S14 afgerig nie. Hy het ‘n goeie span oorgeneem maar kyk waat is ons vandag. Dink dit sal die beste wees om Jake trug te kry al is dit net vir caretaker coach. Jake en Eddie is ‘n goeie kombinasie en die spelers is meestal spelers waarmee hulle gewerk het so die aanpassings sal nie te moeilik wees nie.
7 Sep 2010, 08:30 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-13:
Yep, I’d be very surprised if it ever actually happened. There was far too much bad blood when he left his position after the WC. That sort of stuff is not forgotten nor forgiven easily.
7 Sep 2010, 08:32 am
@ufo(ufo)-5: White proved that he didn’t need fetcher in 2007 to win the WC. The rules did not necessitate it.
Different story now though….1 thing for sure, our players would be FIT, RESTED when needed, have PROPER SKILLED coaches like eddi jones to hone their skills, have a proper DEFENSIVE structure.
Not to mention the players will know who the boss is. At NO stage can players dictate to a coach what to do, they can make suggestion etc, but ultimately the coach makes the final call …something PdV can’t seem to do. With White everybody will know who the boss is, which is great for the team. Like kids and teenagers need parents to lay down the law and make decisions which are best for the them, players need the same from coaches. Remember when White dropped Big Vic because of his attitude, Big Vic became the best lock in the world!
1 thing can’t be denied, that SARU’s political decision has backfired horribly. It’s taken 3 years to unravel White’s well groomed players but it was only a matter of time.
I really like the fact that Alistair would be groomed for future success!
Oh and I’m sure White won’t disgrace the country like PdV does on a weekly bases.
7 Sep 2010, 08:32 am
I just want to mention – should any Saru/Sarfu/Ouens met bok baadjies aan wat nog nooit vir die Bokke gespeel het nie member be on this blog –
i have seen a 1908 video clip af a maul and a line out, although a bit fuzzy i could clearly see the swinging right arms and stompng boot….. so should you nee a coach i will be able to help out with the mauls and lineouts….. between my work, scuba and golf.
But please keep this quiet….. one does not want to insult the current coach ……..
7 Sep 2010, 08:33 am
Finally cat out of the bag!!!!!!!!
What do these teams have in common, Fiji, Tonga, USA, 7th ranked England, An over stretched Argentina……..??
7 Sep 2010, 08:34 am
@WestAussieBok(WestAussieBok)-19:
Cuts both ways, don’t think JW will be interested either. He must be having a good chuckle though.
@Staal(Staal)-14:
Sal die Bokke happy wees met hom?
7 Sep 2010, 08:34 am
ai spelling!
7 Sep 2010, 08:35 am
Die is weer ‘n Ebrahim Rasool job, om journo’s om te koop. Die veldtog se naam is “Jake White’s Winning Way” met Mark Keohane as project leader(head lobbiest.
7 Sep 2010, 08:35 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-23: happy with who?
7 Sep 2010, 08:35 am
bloody hell….
This is gaining momentum……i smell a deal….
7 Sep 2010, 08:36 am
@BESTER(BESTER)-25:
Good one!!!
7 Sep 2010, 08:36 am
All that being said….
White should not be taken back, to much bad blood and I don’t like this backstabbing thing!
Get Alistair and Meyer to team up for the Boks, take Rassie as a technical advisor and get King Carlos as backline coach…Niebaar as defensive coach.
7 Sep 2010, 08:36 am
@Staal(Staal)-12: You are spot on there Staal. Who? It’s spoilt goods at the moment, with so much surrounding the issue. It’s a brave (or foolish) man that takes this lot on…
It’s a moot point though, because for all my money, PDV ain’t going anywhere.
7 Sep 2010, 08:37 am
@BESTER(BESTER)-25: Makes me wonder who was with Keo on that business retreat he was tweeting about – sponsored by Jake White’s Whining Ways perhaps?
7 Sep 2010, 08:37 am
@grant10(grant10)-27: Jake and John. Reunited at last. With Luke the beer fetcher…..
7 Sep 2010, 08:37 am
@grant10(grant10)-27: i smell a rat!
7 Sep 2010, 08:37 am
i reckon Brussow and steggmann are kakking themselves….
7 Sep 2010, 08:38 am
Is ons nie nou onder die Aussies op wereld ranklys nie ?
7 Sep 2010, 08:38 am
@Staal(Staal)-21:
Kom nou Staal, jy kan mos nie so lieg nie?! There were no movies in 1908, jy bedoel seker 1918?
Happy met JW as hulle hom nader trek.
7 Sep 2010, 08:38 am
@Staal(Staal)-12:
now THAT is an excellent question…! glad you asked it…!!
ja staal… that’s the crux…
now don’t laugh too loud… but…
i would suggest a renowned group of auditors… who know nothing about rugby and see everything in terms of figures and bottom lines… they can interview EVERYONE and ask them their opinions and formulate a spreadsheet of what the most of all those involved believe is wrong… in order of most to least… that would give us an unemotional starting point… and from there things should start looking fairly obvious and they can start taking decisions…
7 Sep 2010, 08:39 am
@grant10(grant10)-34:
Burger at openside and Smit at 2…forever?
7 Sep 2010, 08:39 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-22:
What do these teams have in common, Australia, All Blacks, France?
Ill give you a hint: none of them played well enough to get through to the final.
7 Sep 2010, 08:41 am
@BESTER(BESTER)-25: Then how do you explain this? http://www.keo.co.za/2010/07/26/show-your-class-jakey/
7 Sep 2010, 08:41 am
luke to extend his Bath deal.
Steggmann to go to France with Frans….
Brussow to Engeland….
Every flank under 6 foot four and less than 115 kg s to rather play cricket…..
Plod to lead boks to 2015….wc.
sKOP AND g10 TO GO ON ANTI DEPRESSANTS …..AND A FEW HEART ATTACK tABLETS.
hier kom groot kak
7 Sep 2010, 08:42 am
No. If Jake White comes in again no way in hell Brussow will even make the world cup squad. Jake has a fascination with big forwards. He would rather have Danie play 6 instead of Brussow….
7 Sep 2010, 08:42 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-39: If we are going to hype Jake up as a messiah who will save the Sprinboks, a proper analysis of his successes and failures is in order.
Its a fair question – what was his record against France, New Zealand and Australia? How successful is he likely to be against them when the Boks meet them in the World Cup knock out stages. What was his record like before the World Cup etc. etc.
7 Sep 2010, 08:43 am
well at least the snake on record he wont play plod at 3……
But plod will be there in Japan in 2015…..the only 155 kg hooker….
7 Sep 2010, 08:43 am
@grant10(grant10)-41: lol truth brother. Truth.
7 Sep 2010, 08:43 am
@GeniusSA(Shauny)-20:
come on boet…
and now the rules definitely necessitate it…
last year… when the rules DID warrant a fetcher… and Heinrich Brussow made a massive impact…
in other words… when everything cried out for a fetcher…
jake white said on boots and all “I would not select Brussow“.
7 Sep 2010, 08:44 am
@grant10(grant10)-41: Os, Monty and Skinstad to come out of retirment to add experience.
7 Sep 2010, 08:44 am
@grant10(grant10)-44: assistant coach
7 Sep 2010, 08:44 am
We need to make the sircle bigger imo… so my recommendations are…
Forwards coach: Tim Noakes… boys ons gaat rus!
Backline coach: Naas Botha…boys ons gaanie tackle nie!
Head coach: Buthalezi….boys ek kan speeeeeeech!
7 Sep 2010, 08:44 am
breaking news
bissy just choked on his mielie pap
7 Sep 2010, 08:44 am
Gotta love Keohane, he blows with the wind, changes his mind like he does his underwear, on average once a month – oh it is true just go back to his recent story on why Divvy should stay until 2015.
Now he his getting his agents to run a campaign to chop crusty and bring his mate the snake back.
7 Sep 2010, 08:44 am
@grant10(grant10)-44: The mascot will have to support him when he walks out onto the field to sing the anthems.
7 Sep 2010, 08:47 am
jacue cronje to make a return….as fetcher….just in case schalk gets injured….
D Rossow now the reseve 8 th man…..
pedrie wannenburg climbing on a plane later….
7 Sep 2010, 08:48 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-36: ag sorry 1918!
@ufo(ufo)-37: hehehe , now we are on the right track!
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-47: how can you leave out Braam v Straaten!
7 Sep 2010, 08:49 am
ja gents
kak in die drinkwater….
ai PDV…..i told you not to sell your soul my man.
Fat boys club will be standing watching at the firing squad….
You chose to dance with the wrong devils my man.
7 Sep 2010, 08:50 am
Louis strydom reserve 10….
no steppers allowed in the backline….no ways…aplon and JDJ to play out careers at wp….
Need those stoppers in the backline….
7 Sep 2010, 08:51 am
OK someone tell me wtf Jake White will bring to the party?
Why can’t we compare 2006 to 2010 Simon? It was Jake’s third year in charge, it is not like the structures, players or opposition was new to him.
And you say not afraid to make tough decisions?
Please man do you remember the cries from all quarters to drop Smit who was ironically also said to be overweight and out of form as captain?
Remember the cries for the late Etienne Botha to be included in 2005 for a hopelessly out of form De Wet Barry yet he decided to play his wing (JDV) and move him to center?
Can you remember the uproar in this country, and from this very website about Luke Watson in 2006 when Schalk got injured?
The loss against France that year, the snottings in the Tri-Nations which incidently saw us concede 18 tries (4 less than this year) having a points difference of -79 compared to this year’s -47?
And what does Jake White promise to bring? Better defense? Using the same players, bringing no innovation to this team?
It has been said so many times that the players look tired and overplayed – so step in Jake White now when the players go on a conditioning program, gets rested for the EOYT and plays a shortened 3N next year and with or without Jake White, will be fresh and well conditioned?
You want to know the difference between the Boks of 2009 and 2010?
I give you Juan Smith, and what a proper break can do for a top class player. Afford that to all our senior boys and you will see the same.
It does not take an ‘astute’ technical analyst to figure this out. It is ******* logical.
White is an opportunist of the highest order, so much so that he needs to remind himself what Mark Keohane told him not even a month ago on this very website, to have some ******* class.
7 Sep 2010, 08:52 am
Can anyone help?
What is Snorre’s win % as bok coach?
7 Sep 2010, 08:53 am
J Fourie to wing….need bulk out there
JDV and coaches choive trevor halstead to sort out midfield defence.
left wing odwa….for experience.
need bulk and size….not spoed!
7 Sep 2010, 08:53 am
Sorry – problem with the Kudus here in the garden. Got to go.
7 Sep 2010, 08:53 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-57: ‘OK someone tell me wtf Jake White will bring to the party?’
Eddie Jones?
7 Sep 2010, 08:53 am
Jake White is the most arrogant coach in SA.
I still can’t believe he is after Div’s job.
He will have to answer for his actions one day. Disgraceful!!
7 Sep 2010, 08:54 am
excellent post pissant…!
7 Sep 2010, 08:55 am
serious question.
Why did snake not just offer his assistance to pdv?
7 Sep 2010, 08:55 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-43:
Im not on a pro Jake crusade here Wolf, in fact it’ll be a step back if he gets the job now in my mind.
Read my post in relation to who i was replying to in the first place.
7 Sep 2010, 08:55 am
@Staal(Staal)-60:
that is sooo cool…
7 Sep 2010, 08:56 am
I know he is contracted to Italy…….but what about Nick Mallet? Surely the best to take over? Otherwise John Mitchell.
7 Sep 2010, 08:57 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-57:
Great post PA. Exaclty.
7 Sep 2010, 08:57 am
Ok let’s say Jake is given his job back, what happens come EOYT? Does Jake leave the senior players at home, risks losing a couple of tests. Or does he take them with still risks losing some tests, as they’ve already played too much rugby, and senior players getting injured?
On the other hand we stay with PdV but the same situation as above applies. Either way where does it leave the Boks?
Hoskins needs to sit down with PdV and find out if he has a plan in place to win the WC. What type of rugby does he expect to play, who will lead his side and does he plan to bring in any experts between now and then. A defensive coach, that eye doctor (that was, from what I heard, fantastic), an attacking coach. Things have to change, the Boks (including coaching staff) need to be challenged by new ideas. We’ve moved backwards since end of last years Tri Nations.
7 Sep 2010, 08:58 am
Dream on…Jake won’t be back, he is the wrong colour. This is down to SA racism…
7 Sep 2010, 08:58 am
@ufo(ufo)-66:
there’s a kudu by my stoep…!!
only in Africa!!
gotta love it…!
7 Sep 2010, 08:58 am
@Simon(Simon)-40: Ek voel ge-eerd!! Komaan ons almal weet hoe werk lobbing, jy kan nie onmiddelik wys wie jou kanidaat is nie, die plan was al lank inwerking, julle het net gewag ou snor moet begin k@K aanvang.
“Jake White’s Winning Way, founded by my good friend Eddie Jones, Mark Keohane, Kevin Ferguson and myself, are proud to send you
the first of our quarterly newsletters, following on from the successful first year of coaching academies.(Oktober 2009)Het hulle vergeet om Simon Borchardt by te voeg?
7 Sep 2010, 08:58 am
its a win-win for Jake the Snake:
Win the WC & the glory of consecutive trophies is his.
Doesn’t win WC & he can say that PdV caused irreperable damage. (He doesn’t need to say it himself though, he has Keo & other “journo’s” to spread the word/truths for him)
7 Sep 2010, 08:58 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-65: Fair enough, I think my brain is just a little shocked by all this Jake White talk!
Respect to him for winning a World Cup, but he appears to have left his class and dignity in France.
7 Sep 2010, 08:59 am
@XV(XV)-67: yes my man
those 2 the best imo
7 Sep 2010, 08:59 am
Brussouw and Stegman to find themselves a European team I reckon.
7 Sep 2010, 08:59 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-74:
I think you may be on to something there.
7 Sep 2010, 08:59 am
Mitchell touted as Bok coach now? oh my, wont the conspiracy theorists love that..
not only do NZ have the refs panel in their back pocket..
they have Deans, the bladdy agent, keeping Aus under one heel
and then mitchell, the bladdy agent, in the inner sanctum of the Boks..
oh yes, the master plan is slowly coming to fruition.
*evil laugh*
7 Sep 2010, 08:59 am
Why not just bring in White to come and assist with a few things. He seems willing to help out in any cappacity. He could specifically look at defence as well as with helping to deal with out of form players. This will be much less disrupting.
Noone is going to fire Div.
7 Sep 2010, 09:00 am
I’m sure many people respect Jake but I don’t agree with his assessment that Allister (spelling?) is not ready. The political reality is that Heyneke won’t be the next coach, but we are in a fortunate position to have Allister. The only way to make this thing fair is to appoint Allister head coach and make Heyneke assistant / forwards coach.
7 Sep 2010, 09:01 am
@Staal(Staal)-58:
22/35 – 62.85%
7 Sep 2010, 09:01 am
IF PDivvie goes…
there’s only one man to replace him…
Heyneke Meyer…!
7 Sep 2010, 09:01 am
open letter to Nick Mallet
and J Mitchell
FFS gents….save this Circus
Ek kan nie meer nie !
7 Sep 2010, 09:01 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-78: he’d be good though I’d say, revenge on his former employers the NZRU.
7 Sep 2010, 09:01 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-78:
Haha, brilliant.
You can add Plumtree to that list as well.
7 Sep 2010, 09:04 am
SA Rugby
3 stooges
The Fat Boy
seriously gents…..comedy this….i just cant take it seriously anymore.
Every day brings a new laugh….this is better than Monty Python….
7 Sep 2010, 09:04 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-84: yes he would be good for the Boks, he did a wonderful job assisting the Eng 2003 forwards to the state they eventually got to, so imagine him with some prime SA beef…
would it be a poisoned chalice though? get them winning and its the senior players coaching, lose and its Mitchell coaching
7 Sep 2010, 09:05 am
@grant10(grant10)-83: Mitchel is an enigma – he has done well with the Lions so far (early days), underperformed for a couple of years with a very talented team at the Force (Giteau, Mitchell, Sheperdson, Cross, Sharpe, Pocock, Brown etc.), lost one important game with the All Blacks, leading to an ultimately unsuccessful international coaching career, and did well as forwards coach with England.
He often leaves places on bad terms. I am not sure if he is a great coach, or a mediocre coach.
7 Sep 2010, 09:05 am
I have a suggestion for SARU, instead of the EOYT, arrange games against Fiji, Tonga, Argentina, USA and England, lets see what the results would, bearing in mind we have only ever lost against England out of that lot!!!!!!!!
7 Sep 2010, 09:05 am
palace revolution
a bloodless coup…
Judas….Caesar….Brutus….
Who needs Shakespeare?
7 Sep 2010, 09:06 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-57: Jake will bring in some fresh ideas, maybe some younger players (like he did with Habana, F. Steyn) but the core of the team I’d expect to stay. He’ll bring some structure, a better defense and a plan to win the WC.
Whether Jake comes in or not, the senior Boks need a rest and a conditioning programme. They also need a defensive coach and some new ideas that will challenge them.
7 Sep 2010, 09:06 am
Should Jake White be appointed Bok caretaker coach until the end of the 2011 World Cup?
Yes 86 – 80% of all votes
No 21 – 20% of all votes
Total Votes: 107
7 Sep 2010, 09:06 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-81:
AB 4/9 – 44.44%
Oz 4/9 – 44.44%
7 Sep 2010, 09:06 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-88: i reckon he is bloody brilliant mate.
7 Sep 2010, 09:07 am
@Staal(Staal)-58:
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-81:
For comparison:
Henry = 86%
Mitchell= 82%
Mallett (with Boks) = 71%
White = 66%
Div = 63%
Markgraaf = 61%
Eddy Jones = 57%
Deans = 54%
Connoly 64%
7 Sep 2010, 09:07 am
White will make Watson captain, watch the Jackals make a tiekie draai.
The Keo, Cardinelli, Bortchardt, Vrede sing song agenda is so blatantly pitifully obvious and the rugby doting schmucks here and across the country swallow this pathetic collective @sscreep cowardice like lemmings on a free fall trail to oblivion. Let it happen. Give the lily lame schmucks what they so crave and desire, hope they do and that we get so f’ckd up in the world cup worse than under Streauli. Let it transpire, bring back White and get f’ckd up by Tonga or Samoa in the pool stages. Let it come, White Jones and Coetsee, let Bok rugby seriously see its @ss in all its glory.
7 Sep 2010, 09:07 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-43: a ‘proper analysis’ of jake white’s limitations is always accompanied by the rider that ‘he was still building a team’ – the fact that the bulls and sharks competed in the 2007 super14 final apparently doesn’t necessarily mean that the Boks should have won the Tri-nations in that same year!
You will never get an objective breakdown of Jake’s flaws on this blog anymore, Jake saved Keo’s gat from being run over by a car in Paris and keo’s been kissing arse eversince!
7 Sep 2010, 09:08 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-57: Exactly!
7 Sep 2010, 09:09 am
@Dumb Supporter(DumbSupporter)-79:
Ever wondered why neither Jake nor Eddie is currently under contract?
And they are promoted by this website to ‘save’ the current World Champs 1 year out from a World Cup?
Why did a hopelessly out of sorts England not want Jake? Why did an Australia building a young team not want Jake (or Eddie for that matter)?
Just ask yourself why that is…
7 Sep 2010, 09:09 am
will jake bring in luke as his captain like he hinted at ?
If so can i change my keo vote?
7 Sep 2010, 09:09 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-96: Watson would be better than Spies at 8, at least he has work-rate (scored a good try at the weekend off the base).
7 Sep 2010, 09:10 am
1stly let me start off by saying I am AB supporter….
IMO … Jake is a haiena finish and klaar….
Jake is playing on the emotions of Bok supporters with him comments in the media.
Yes he did win the WC but PvD still needs his chance to prove himself in the WC.
If we look at the results of the 2 coaches to date and only take into account the Tri Nations results, the facts read as follow: JW Played: 18 Won 9, PvD Played 18 Won: 8.
It might seem like JW is better but we have to bear in mind the 2 of the wins for PvD was in NZ, something JW could not achieve. JW record include a 0-19 loss to the AB’s at Newlands and 16 – 52 in Pretoria against the same opponent.
All and all PvD has his mistakes, JW was not perfect either. JW was critised for his decisions but them stuck with him, lets give PvD the same respect.
7 Sep 2010, 09:11 am
@grant10(grant10)-100: Lol – Luke and Jake the messiahs.
7 Sep 2010, 09:11 am
1000 posts sweepstake.
I’d say it hits the 1000 mark by 4.21pm
7 Sep 2010, 09:12 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-101: at this moment Watsons sister would be better than spies
7 Sep 2010, 09:12 am
Um grantie..
I don’t think judas was one of will shakespeare’s..
Unless you are referring to judas of “punch and judas” fame.
We know what you mean though.
Needless to day Barney will not be passing you the biltong knife…
7 Sep 2010, 09:12 am
@grant10(grant10)-90:
Lol,
Jake the snake versus Pete the clown
I dont think it will make any difference but to allow the 2 to work together will probably lead to even a bigger catastrophe. The ego’s are just too big – I have no idea why Peter has such a huge ego, at least Jake has won a wc (by hook or crook)
7 Sep 2010, 09:12 am
the last thing SA rugby can afford is to bring back mr cancer puke watson.
7 Sep 2010, 09:12 am
@Oem D(Oem D)-102: I never knew “klaar” is part of the New Zealand vocabulary!
7 Sep 2010, 09:14 am
@gunther(gunther)-106: english literature not my strong point!
Ja….trust Barney to hog the biltong
7 Sep 2010, 09:15 am
@grant10(grant10)-105: The number 8 from the Lady Boks was pretty nifty – she could teach Spies a couple of things about aggression and using size and power.
7 Sep 2010, 09:15 am
you have to love this place
simon writes a mere eleven lines and then declares that ’2006 cannot be compared to 2010′ hahaha! What team was jake building that had Percy, Mossie, WO, Habana, Wacko Jaco, Ricky, Juan Smith, Big Joe, Matfield, Danie Rossouw, CJ, Plod, Os?
7 Sep 2010, 09:15 am
@Robzim(Robzim)-107: god given talent….the best he can ever be
7 Sep 2010, 09:15 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-109: or that JW lost to the ABs 19-0 at newlands???
7 Sep 2010, 09:16 am
Luke and White
My good heavens…..i will pay an entrance fee to this site to check the squirming…..
I will be a complete schitzo….wont know what the fark to do….
Sweet and sour will take on a whole new dimension!
Now outta here…
Watson for captain….
7 Sep 2010, 09:17 am
@grant10(grant10)-55: And the Fat boys club will be in 100% support of this Jake agenda, whilst Pdv made excuses for their fat arses all year.
Backstabbers.
7 Sep 2010, 09:17 am
Jake???
I need Eno, Gavascon and Rennies.
It would be foolish to appoint that prat. SA rugby will suffer badly. I will not support them or buy tickets for games. It will hurt too much to see backward rugby making a mockery of Rugby Union.
7 Sep 2010, 09:17 am
@grant10(grant10)-115: so a new pairing for the “kissing cousins” then grant?
7 Sep 2010, 09:18 am
@Robzim(Robzim)-107: jake HAD the ego before he won the world cup!
7 Sep 2010, 09:20 am
Don’t concentrate on the finger because you’ll miss all the heavenly glory out there. Concentrate on the heavenly glory you can bring and make yourselves so fulfilled!
7 Sep 2010, 09:21 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-116: I doubt Victor and Fourie du Preez will want Jakey back. Their respective tussles have been well published.
7 Sep 2010, 09:22 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-96:
Skop I agree with you. Let it happen and let’s watch the train set in motion to crash.
7 Sep 2010, 09:22 am
One would swear that jake can ix all rugby ills. I always wonder why he has not been ofered any high profile jobs with either a national team or a S14 franchise, instead he coaches a hostel team.. Is he the ‘White’ messiah or just another big talking bullshitter.. FFor the coach that should be coaching is none other than Nick Mallet.
7 Sep 2010, 09:23 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-120: Don’t concentrate on other jobs because no-one else wants you. Concentrate on criticising the current Springbok coach and try to snake yourself back into your old job! – Jake White
7 Sep 2010, 09:23 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-121:
But Barney would.
7 Sep 2010, 09:23 am
This is a circus, Pdivvy won’t easily be replaced because it would mean that transformation failed, unless he is replaced by someone like AC.
How does JW believe he will be asked to come back, because they (SARU) would effectively have to admit they where wrong and he (JW) was right.
There’s way too much politics involved in this
7 Sep 2010, 09:24 am
@Oem D(Oem D)-102: Actually, it was Straeuli’s team that lost 52-16 to NZ and PdV’s that lost 19-0 (was Monty’s 100th Test). Jake’s worst result was the 49-0 loss to Australia.
7 Sep 2010, 09:24 am
@Staal(Staal)-58: Won 4 and lost 5 against All Blacks
7 Sep 2010, 09:24 am
One would swear that jake can ix all rugby ills. I always wonder why he has not been ofered any high profile jobs with either a national team or a S14 franchise, instead he coaches a hostel team.. Is he the ‘White’ messiah or just another big talking bullshitter.. For the coach that should be coaching is none other than Nick Mallet.
7 Sep 2010, 09:24 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-124: Exactly. Jeez it’s so low and pathetic. Snake has no self respect.
7 Sep 2010, 09:25 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-113:
Yip, we are all unfair towards him and his talent.
I mean his team loses every week but according to him they were very good and actually deserved to win every time but he just cannot work out why they lost.
But they say the gifted are at a different level so maybe what he says make sense at that level
7 Sep 2010, 09:26 am
remember jake white was contracted by the Lions to sort out their sh.!t…
and we all know what happened there…
the sh.!t never sticks to jake…
the teflon don…
7 Sep 2010, 09:26 am
@Simon(Simon)-127: Will this article be published in SArugby?
7 Sep 2010, 09:26 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-121: Could you elaborate on this? I remember something between White and Matfield in 2005(?), although I don’t know anything about du Preez.
7 Sep 2010, 09:28 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-130: He’s got no respect for ANYONE. How can he have any respect for himself?
7 Sep 2010, 09:28 am
“The same people who threw their robes on the ground when ***** rode on a donkey were the same people who crowned him and hit him with sticks, and were the same people who said afterwards how we shouldn’t have done that, he’s the son of God. So that’s exactly what we do. You have to look at history as repeating itself. And I’m not saying that I’m God.”
7 Sep 2010, 09:31 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-134: White sent Matfield home, claiming he was injured, yet Matfield played for the Bulls that Saturday. White liked to play the school headmaster, stated Vic was ill-disciplined coz he didnt want to cut his hair (no really!). In John Smit’s book he states that Jake once lied to Fourie du Preez about his reasons for dropping him (it wa politically motivated) and Fourie never trusted Jake again afterwards.
7 Sep 2010, 09:32 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-136: hehe! Blast from the past! Should PDV win the WC next year, watch all the robes flying on this site…
7 Sep 2010, 09:33 am
Lilly
Why would Barney want Jake back?
Jake said he should have retired in 2007.
Jake says he will make Luke his captain…
Barney has publicly backed divvie to take the team to the world cup.
I think Jake would be barney’s worst nightmare.
Kind of like you waking up to find somebody had stolen your Liverpool pillow and duvet set as well as your Fernando Torres action doll.
7 Sep 2010, 09:33 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-134:
jake told victor to cut his hair… victor said his girfriend (now wife) liked it long so he wouldn’t cut it… jake sent victor home… saying he was injured… victor played for the bulls that very weenend… showing up jake to be the burglar of the truth that he is…
7 Sep 2010, 09:35 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-137: I really must read Smitty’s book. Thanks for that – I remember the Matfield incident.
Jake will forever be a World Cup winning coach, who coached some of the greatest ever Boks (Matfield, du Preez, Monty, du Preez etc.), but he will also forever be a bell-end.
7 Sep 2010, 09:36 am
Jake Wit.
Ridder op sy Wit Perd
7 Sep 2010, 09:36 am
Interestingly, Jake has at no time offered his or Eddies services to assist PdeV. He wants the whole job or nothing, with PdeV sacked. I reckon he should be kept as far away from the Boks as possible.
7 Sep 2010, 09:38 am
@ufo(ufo)-140: That was probably round the time Schalk also shaved his head.
7 Sep 2010, 09:38 am
@gunther(gunther)-139:
Gosh you have a great memory about my deep affection for Fernando Torres. :blush:
7 Sep 2010, 09:39 am
@David(David)-143:
VIP…
Very Important Point…!
7 Sep 2010, 09:39 am
@gunther(gunther)-139: “as well as your Fernando Torres action doll.”
He has an action doll out???? I want!
7 Sep 2010, 09:39 am
Nobody else in first-class rugby has wanted Jake for THREE YEARS.
He’s not in demand. For good reasons.
He’s no good.
7 Sep 2010, 09:40 am
@David(David)-143:
Well outright saying to Saru that the next coach sellected MUST be AC, smacks of arrogance. Typical Jake the snake move.
7 Sep 2010, 09:41 am
@gunther(gunther)-139:
Fair point. Jake and Luke are bestest buds now after Luke lent Jake a Hillsong CD to copy.
But yeah, wow, think of the column inches a Jake and Luke combo would make. This site would explode, no wonder Keo are pushing it.
7 Sep 2010, 09:41 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-144:
schalk actually shaved his head in 2003 for the world cup… when Rudy was boss…
7 Sep 2010, 09:41 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-148: Tackles. As a proud Yarpie, who would you want to coach the Boks?
7 Sep 2010, 09:41 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-147:
There is no action doll available in SA. Dammit! I want one too.
Nando scored twice this weekend for the qualifiers for Euro 2012. My baby is back!
7 Sep 2010, 09:43 am
Jake’s pulling the same **** Dwyer is pulling with Deans.
I think Jake’s missing the cameras.
They were both lucky with the players of the time.
Dwyer has been slandering Deans along with offers to take over the Wallabies also. He doesn’t understand, along with a lot of other people, just how long it takes to put a good team together, that’s capable of playing at international level.
Look how long it took Deans to bring the Crusaders on.
When he took over the Wallabies they didn’t have anything that looked like a front row and hadn’t had one for some time.
Personalities, like Al Baxter, had settled in for the long term and found themselves out in the street.
Deans knows what he’s doing.
His critics don’t.
As far as I’m concerned, Dwyer made a laughing stock of himself when he declared, publicly, that he and the Wallabies had invented ‘running rugby’, when the French and the Fijians had been playing that way for decades.
Jake’s had his day and thought he’d moved onto something better. He finds his current situation doesn’t taste the same. He’ll punt for a caretaker role now, but it’s not what he wants.
It’s time for the Springboks to move on also.
7 Sep 2010, 09:44 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-153: Yep, saw the goals. The first one was a thing of beauty! Lazy chip over the keeper, arrogant even. Lovely.
7 Sep 2010, 09:45 am
@JockBok(JockBok)-150: I heard that Luke made Jake a mix tape.
7 Sep 2010, 09:45 am
Taahirah
I fear you will be disappointed…
The action doll has been withdrawn from the market.
Apparently it’s hamstrings kept going.
7 Sep 2010, 09:47 am
@ufo(ufo)-151: Ah yes – Kamp draad trek and all that.
I think Schalk was frightened that Rudy and his team might see his long golden locks while Schalk tried to hide from the trained killers armed with live ammunition.
7 Sep 2010, 09:47 am
@gunther(gunther)-157:
Good one, eventhough it is at the expense of El Nino!
7 Sep 2010, 09:47 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-99: So are you saying Jake should stay as far away from the boks as possible?
7 Sep 2010, 09:48 am
I am sure that if we go through the archives we will find an article by Simon to fire Jake White!
Just as the would have been an article that the AB’s made a mistake not to have appointed Dingo Deans
*YAWN*
This site has the same stories for 4 years I am sure that all they do with their MS word programme is search “Jake White” replace with “Peter de Villiers”….. search Jaco vd Westhuizen” replace Bryan Habanna etc etc
7 Sep 2010, 09:49 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-155:
When he is on form, he plays with such beauty. Having said that La Furia Roja play with that same beauty. Shame, Lichtenstein never stood a chance.
This weekend they are aparently playing Argentina. Should be a juicy clash. Argies have a new coach.
7 Sep 2010, 09:51 am
@Dumb Supporter(DumbSupporter)-160:
I always said Jake had an important role in SA rugby post 2007, that did not include coaching the Boks.
Jake can add value to the Boks, no doubt, but the kak you read in the media now, and Jake proclaiming himself to be the saviour of SA rugby is the biggest kak I have read in SA Rugby since Regan Hoskins said he will make minutes of SA Rugby meetings available to the public and that that Southern Kings will play Super rugby.
7 Sep 2010, 09:51 am
Jake will be a disaster, but the snake is willing to put his head on the block because he knows it will be a toy axe that hangs over his head.
He wins the WC after sending JS and co on a conditioning programme and he can say – “I told you so; I am the greatest”
He loses in the QF and he can say – “I told you so; PDV screwed my team up beyond repair”
He has nothing to lose.
Rather give me a coach with everything to lose
7 Sep 2010, 09:51 am
@gunther(gunther)-157:
El Nino is over that dark period with hamstring injuries, and true fans of the man prefer to put that period behind us.
7 Sep 2010, 09:53 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-163:
Jake is delusional. 
How can you be the saviour of rugby, yet no one in the whole world wants you near their team.
7 Sep 2010, 09:54 am
Wolfman
A mix tape is so eighties..
Jake and Luke share an iTunes account.
That way they can send each other music when one is feeling down. Or just to say hi I am thinking of you..
Luke’s tastes run mainly to gospel with a little light r&b thrown in, nothing harder than Toni Braxton.
Jakes tastes run more towards country and western although he is a great admirer of Elton John.
7 Sep 2010, 09:54 am
The good thing about jake is that he believes in two non-white wings, not like Rassie at WP.
7 Sep 2010, 09:55 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-163: Jake’s real value lies in staying the hell away from the team.
7 Sep 2010, 09:55 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-148: White did receive offers after the 2007 World Cup but chose not to accept them.
7 Sep 2010, 09:57 am
@gunther(gunther)-167: I believe that Luke has a secret fetish for Klipwerf Boere Orkes
7 Sep 2010, 10:00 am
love or hate jake white, the guy knows how to keep his stock/name in the lips of people! I was telling rossoneri just a 2 weeks ago that this whole reverberating chorus that the Boks are playing an outdated gameplan (read Jake’s 2007 structure kak) and need to innovate and move with the times, means white’s influence on the team (if you believe everything gavin rich & co write the boks have are still using white’s blueprint) will vanish!
Jake White can’t allow that to happen!
If the Boks are seen to be embracing anything either than his ‘structure’ gameplan then his ‘winning ways’ consultancy becomes redundant because his gameplan will be seen as Windows98 while whatever new ‘ball-in hand, expansive’ gameplan will seen as Windows 7 Pro.
Now the only way back into the limelight is the dirty way, hound Pdv out of the job and gain control of the Boks!
7 Sep 2010, 10:01 am
@Simon(Simon)-170: Who offered him a job?
7 Sep 2010, 10:03 am
God save us .. because it sure looks like nothing else will.
We are stuck with the three clowns in PdeV, D**k and Gary, and now Jake the snake wants to get involved.
What I would give to have a good, decent coach and assistance run the show .. names like Mallet and H Meyer spring to mind.
Is there enough time for one of them to do a ‘hospital’ job for the WC .. yes, because with only a change of about 5 players and adjustment in game plan and attitude we are there and in with a chance.
7 Sep 2010, 10:04 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-173: The Lions wanted him, as did a couple of European clubs.
7 Sep 2010, 10:04 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-172: Yep, on the money there. We need innovation and for that we need someone from outside our rugby structures. Preferably NZ.
I would go for PDV as head coach and Plum and Mitchell as assistant coaches
7 Sep 2010, 10:05 am
Save Krusty !
7 Sep 2010, 10:05 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-173: Wales were interested but he priced himself out.
7 Sep 2010, 10:05 am
@Simon(Simon)-175: Cool – thank you.
Any idea what Jake and his Whining Ways are up to at the moment? Which clubs they are involved with? Projects? etc.
7 Sep 2010, 10:06 am
PIV has been no worse than Jake the snake. So cry me river,
and let’s be honest.
1. Jake was only successful when he brought Eddie on board.
2. He had a very lucky draw to win the World Cup. I know it wasn’t his fault, but fact remains, plus we nearly lost against some of the islands.
3. He had some dismal losses in tenure. I would say a lot more dismal than PV has had.
4. We have all seen how successful “Losing Ways” has been at the lions this past Super 14.
5. Is he and Keo going to write us book about how he hid in the bushes and coached the team during the Lions tour.
So either let us support PDV (like we did Jake), make sure he has the best support coaches in place, and hope he gets lucky in the World Cup alla Jake.
Or if we really need a care taker coach, let’s bring in a proper coach then like Heineke Meyer or Eddie. Jake can rather fetch them some beers.
And Keo and kie, really can you not come up with anything better than to write these continuous tirades against PDV. PDV thus, PDVB that, and on and on we go. So freaking typical. Started the day after PDV got appointed, was temporarily silenced during last year’s tri-nations, and now we are on 2 articles a day.
7 Sep 2010, 10:06 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-173: I think the Ukranian womens team offered him a job as assistant baggage master, but the offer was withdrawn after their president intervened. Something about sniffing underwear if memory serves….
7 Sep 2010, 10:08 am
regardless of ones likes or dislikes of Jake…..he’s a hellava lot better than Twakkie.
might not be a bad thing.
but will never happen, Twakkie is on the gravy train and it only stops after the Worldcup….maybe.
Imagine he stays on after the worldcup?
7 Sep 2010, 10:11 am
@Couchcoach(GI POT)-164: Unfortunately Div is so delusional he thoinks he’s on the right track. He hasn’t actually sttod up and accepted ONE of his blunders….selection, conditioning, substitutions, tactics, decision-making…..every single facet of our national setup (except for eating and partying) has regressed, every single one. And it’s always someone else’s fault and we actually played very well, you know. And ja, we actually would have won te game if we hadn’t come second. And we’re going to win the world cup you know, we just have to , I don’t know, come right.
Does he think there’s some magical ******* power that’s going t bestow some sort of god-given right to win on us? And when we droip out in the quarters (which we will, under him) he’ll just shrug his shoulders and spout something idiotic right before blaming a referee and proclaiming that we actually were the best side in the tournament.
The guy’s head is so far up his own *** he can’t see a thing. He’s an incompetent, bufoonish, embarrassing liabilty, and I for one would welcome some technical and tactical knowledge and professionalism into what has become a ******* 3-ring circus.
7 Sep 2010, 10:11 am
@Jake Snake(leeman)-180:
jake was not involved with the Lions during a S14.
Only during a 3-4 month spell in which the Lions improved dramatically
7 Sep 2010, 10:11 am
Clown societies usually train new members to become clowns. The training normally takes place by an apprentice system, although there may be some rote schooling as well. Sometimes the training is improvisational comedy, but usually a clown society trains members in well known forms of talking to the media, coaches box pantomimes, speech and the art of saying not what you mean and common videotape *** gags. Occasionally these include a scripted performance, or skit, which is part of a standard repertoire that “never gets old,” and is expected by members of the culture that the clown society is part of.
uncanny…
7 Sep 2010, 10:14 am
This is all just a fantasy thread anyway since PdV isn’t going anywhere with a iron-clad contract from last year (the “glorious” one)
BUT if I had to pick a “caretaker” who could actually win the RWC there would be only one….old tricky Nicky Mallet
Think about it – if Hoskins et al actually sat down and asked themselves who would have the strength of character, the respect of the players and the independence to taker a purely rugby view (ie not relationships)of the guys in the squad well he would be your man.
He is renowned for taking zero sh*t from anyone and this is what is needed. Analyse exactly who is doing what in the squad, pick a gameplan that can take on the best, get the players up to speed and execute. Would he be scared to drop Smit, Habana or even Matfield if required? Not for a second. And don’t imagine he doesn’t follow trends or study the game here closely just because he coaches Italy – you may have noticed they can be quite competitive..
But anyway here endeth those imaginings
7 Sep 2010, 10:14 am
@Atreides(Atreides)-183: And we have the players to do it, the boks showed that in the second half when they clearly ditched the coaches ‘game plan’…
7 Sep 2010, 10:16 am
@Simon(Simon)-175:
No top international side wanted him and jake turned the other offers down because they were beneath him. No thank you.
7 Sep 2010, 10:19 am
Jake is a snake
7 Sep 2010, 10:20 am
I like the idea of Alistair Coetzee being appointed coach, as Alistair Coetzee stated he would have continued in the footsteps of White if he was originally appointed the Bok coach in 2008.
There is a good chance that Alistair Coetzee, if appointed, would rope in White & possibly even Eddie Jones.
But if White is brought in now just until the world cup, then i back that idea better. White will be able to get Habana back to his best etc and will also bring in Eddie Jones.
If SARU are serious about being the first team to defend their title then bringing in White now makes all the sense in the world.
The Boks are a shue into the RWC semis next year. Easy group games and they will meet Ireland in the quarters and should be able to get past the Irish. Then they meet the mighty ABs, unless he French beat the ABs in their group game. The Boks have the best chance in the world to defend their title and make history
7 Sep 2010, 10:21 am
@David(David)-188:
what is your definition of a top international side?
seeing as outside of nz and oz…there’s only really eng and fra.
and england did want him at one stage.
the real downside with white is that…you can forget about seeing a forward under 110kg and a center under 100kg and a winger who can’t run 100 under 10.5….which might not be a bad thing.
7 Sep 2010, 10:21 am
btw jake has a wine farm in the Cape & the wine exporting is not going so good…maybe he needs some cash!
7 Sep 2010, 10:22 am
jake_snake those games vs the island was never in doubt. Its the same as in 1995, when the Boks beat Romania & Canada by close margins ..
7 Sep 2010, 10:22 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-22: What do these teams have in common….Scotland, Italy, Romania, Portugal?
A The only teams the ABs could beat.
7 Sep 2010, 10:23 am
My only problem with PDiv is that no coach with a great record will accept a job to help him. There is no chance that Eddie Jones will join PDiv to coach the team to the WC. I am afraid it is either PDiv with Muir and Gold or another head coach with his own support staff. In that case I will bring in Jake White, because he knows the structures and players. Does anyone know what his opinions of players such as stegmann and brussow are?
7 Sep 2010, 10:26 am
Old Skoppie must be loving this hahah – He´s probably blowing a gasket as we speak. Go Sjop – back to full old school Jake White rugby. Emphasis on White.
Only large heavy forwards, no fetchers, massive backline players, kick kick kick. Chip n chase up n under lovely stuff. Skopskiet – Fourie Du Preez to captain. lol
7 Sep 2010, 10:30 am
Ag please get rid of PdV…but don’t bring Jake back!!
7 Sep 2010, 10:32 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-191:
England didn’t want him. I read a report from one of the England committee members who said that they were sick and tired of all the leaks from Jakes agent about how he was wanted, and the constant telephone calls trying to sell him. The whole thing stank.
7 Sep 2010, 10:32 am
@GeniusSA(Shauny)-29: Personally considering its Pdiv I think I do like this back stabbing thing. Karma has come back to bite him on the ***
7 Sep 2010, 10:33 am
Jake White certainly seems to get rugby people excited one way or another. There’s no middle ground where he’s concerned – he’s either the messiah or the devil himself. I, for one, believe that the man is an astute coach who should never have been allowed to leave after winning the World Cup. Yes, he had a poor run in his 3rd year, but let’s remember that he was a very young coach who was appointed as Bok coach without much experience as head coach beyond Under 21 level. His bad patch became a learning curve and the results turned around. De Villier on the other hand, has taken a team of World Champions in their prime and turned them into a muppit show that is cruelly unfair on the players. Would Jake White and co be a better option than De Villiers for the World Cup? Hell yes!
However, in the sh!tstorm that has leapt up over the past three days regarding White, perhaps we are getting distracted here. It’s clear that De Villiers has the anti-Midas touch and must be removed. White has offered himself as an option, but let’s not forget that there are some other fantastic options. I personally would prefer to see Allister Coetzee appointed as head coach with Heyneke Meyer as his assistant. Would Heyneke accept an assistant role when he’s clearly capable of doing a solid job at the head coach? I don’t know, but Coetzee and Meyer both strike me a courteous, intelligent and articulate men who might just have enough dignity and patriotism to work together successfully, each respecting the other’s ability. These two guys know the players in SA at least as well as Jake White and are possibly more in touch with our player pool over the past couple of years. Both of them have been highly successful at a much higher level than either White or De Villiers had reached before their appointments to the Bok job, and so I would not get carried away with concerns about setting them up for failure so soon before a World Cup. I would expect them to do better than the current coaching team at the World Cup, short notice notwithstanding, and regardless of results at the World Cup, I would back them to take SA Rugby forward thereafter.
White may have a role to play, but I think we have better options in Coetzee and Meyer. I also don’t think that one should apply for the national team coaching role through the Sunday Times when the incumbent coach has not yet been sacked. Jake should have submitted his proposal confidentially for Hoskins eyes alone.
7 Sep 2010, 10:35 am
Letter to Jake;
I understand your desire to get involved with the Bokke and your disappointment with the current results. However as a fellow christian I have to question the manner in which you have made yourself available and the motivation behind it. Don’t you think that to have couched it in the form of offering support to the existing management would have come accross as more sympathetic and more honourable in approach. You of all people are aware of the poisened chalice that the Bok coaching position can be and whilst some may agree with your evident analysis of PDV’s capabilities, to have put yourself in a position to work with him and help him develop in areas where he may need help would have been the more christian thing to do.
I’m sorry Jake I have to question therefore your motivation to do this as a result and quite honestly it comes accross as an attempt to achieve personal gain/achievement at the expense of another (i.e. to me in any case it appears as such).
I sincerely hope that I am wrong in this assessment.
7 Sep 2010, 10:37 am
if Hoskins reappoints White then he is the biggest doos ever!
7 Sep 2010, 10:38 am
World rugby has moved on and a Jake White type game plan would never work in 2010. Jake would be too loyal to his old players. Half of which need to be thrown on their ear. Alistair for head coach, Meyer for forwards coach and Eddie Jones for the backline coach.
7 Sep 2010, 10:39 am
@bananaboy(bananaboy)-201:
Dear Bananaboy
You are right in all areas! It is a win-win situation for me. If I win the World Cup with the team then I’m the Messiah and if I don’t I can blame the past coaching team. As simple as that.
Regards
Jake
7 Sep 2010, 10:40 am
@bananaboy(bananaboy)-201:
… and with a genuine fetcher in my set-up, my beers will be constantly cold…
7 Sep 2010, 10:42 am
Horing – White stated last year that he thought choosing Broussouw worked very well for the Boks and was impressed by him. Besides if White is appointed, he will definitely bring in Eddie Jones and EJ will definitely inforce the point of having a proper fetcher.
I repeat appointing White to defend the RWC he won is the best idea SARU have ever come up with. However lets not ever forget the good things PDV did, bring in Brousouw, Morne Steyn, Juan De Jong, Gio Aplon, Flo, Adi Jacobs.
It’s strange, but the players flourished under PDV at first, but now the rot has set in and PDV doesn’t have the know how to pick them up.
7 Sep 2010, 10:44 am
Jake may help in injecting some belief and leadership back into the team, but I think people ignore the impact that Eddie Jones had on the (RWC winning) team. It’snot just one issue that needs fixing. It’s a cohesiveness that is lacking – from the top to the waterboy. A lot of that comes together from winning, and a lot of that comes down to respect and belief in the leadership.
7 Sep 2010, 10:44 am
@race of tan(race of tan)-206:
Flo & Adi = BAD things.
7 Sep 2010, 10:45 am
thing is Jake wont actually be doing the coaching so those who claim he’ll take us even further back are misplaced. he will absorb all the pressure that comes with the job. he will front the media. he will take responsibility for the team chosen and for their performances.
he will take the heat off the players ans the assistants. he will pick more wisely than PDV has shown himself capable, and he will surround himself with people who will coach the players, ensure their fitness, prepare them mentally and enhance their skills.
while mallet, meyer, solomons, rassie etc could all do better than PDV (and possibly others too) Jake is the best person for this hospital job, and he also happens to be the most available.
but there is no way in hell SARU is humble enough to re-employ him. if they did it would be the second most remarkable return in my living memory of bok rugby. Os coming back to win a second world cup will always be my favorite.
7 Sep 2010, 10:47 am
Simon is absolutely correct.
It’s time the clown is thrown out.
The joke is very old now, and it’s no longer funny seeing a world champion side coming last in the 3N two out of three years under PdV.
When we did win the 3N, it against a developing Aussie side and a NZ side without Dan Carter.
Nearly cocked up the Lions series too.
Almost lost the first test due to stupid selections, the second test was only one due to supersubs Jaque Fourie and Morne Steyn, who PdV refused to pick in the first place. And we got hammered in the third test.
Even in the bad year of 2006, Jake’s side won two games, beating Australia and NZ. PdV could only win one game this year
Get rid of this bafoon and his useless cronies **** Muir and Gary not so Gold
7 Sep 2010, 10:52 am
Adi Jacobs a good thing?
The same guy who was the revolving door in the Lions series?
Jamie Roberts had a laugh running past Jacobs all day like he wasnt there, meanwhile , the best 13 in the world Jaque Fourie was on the bench.
So inspired
7 Sep 2010, 10:52 am
jake soek geld
7 Sep 2010, 10:54 am
to do.
‘Tackles missed is a more vital stat, and if
the difference is marginal, then what’s the
big deal? The reality is that Schalk Burger
can tackle and he has made 25 tackles in a
Test before, so why are we suddenly
concerned he won ’t do it again?’
At the breakdown, the Cheetahs flank had
forced 24 turnovers compared to Burger ’s
three, while the former had hit 80 rucks
compared to Burger ’s 52. Brüssow has
conceded nine turnovers and 18 handling
errors, compared to 15 and 22 respectively
from Burger.
In a likely Bok loose-trio of Burger, Juan
Smith and Pierre Spies the Boks would then
have five lineout options – an area that is
expected to be crucial in the Lions series –
and here Burger edges the shorter Brüssow.
Burger has won eight set-pieces compared
to Brüssow ’s one and has also fielded four
kick-offs to one. Burger has passed 102
times to Brüssow ’s 65, as well as having
more offloads – nine to seven.
These statistics for the Super 14 may point
to a case for starting Brüssow against the
Lions, but White is amazed this is even
being contemplated.
‘Schalk is the best rugby player I’ve ever
coached,’ he said. ‘The reason for that is
simple — he’s the difference between
winning and losing Test matches. Any guy
who has that ability — a Jonah Lomu or a
Jonny Wilkinson — has to be in your side.
‘That kind of player, who when he plays
ensures the team is vastly better than when
he doesn ’t play, is special. Burger is that
guy. He is the kind of player coaches can’t
do without,’ said the former Bok coach.
Obsessed with SIZE:
‘Why would you want to drop a 1.93m, 49-
Test veteran who’s won a junior and senior
World Cup and is only 26, for a player with
one Test cap in the most important series in
the last decade?
‘Is dropping a player going to change the
team or improve the team? If it’s the
former, then why do it? If the answer is the
latter, then it ’s the right move.
‘Can we honestly say that at Test level
dropping Schalk Burger will improve the
team ?’
This entry was posted on Monday, May
18th, 2009
7 Sep 2010, 10:54 am
Bringing Jake back now will be a mistake. It’s well known that the power in the team lies with the senior boks, which incidentally inculdes matfield and fourie du preez. It’s also known (and stated in john smit’s biography) that neither matfield or fourie du preez see eye to eye with jake.
remember how after the pool game vs. england in the wc fourie du p single handedly demolished england and jake wouldn’t give him any credit in the post match interviews……even though the world press was singing his praises.
if you’re going to chop pdiv, appoint another coach who wouldn’t mind playing second fiddle to the senior players until after the wc.
(ps. and i don’t know of many coaches in sa who will)
7 Sep 2010, 10:58 am
@mountaingoat(mountaingoat)-212:
Ek dink ook Jake se nuwe vrou is dalk high maintenance.
7 Sep 2010, 11:00 am
Saru needs to start running like a 21st century organisation, not like a bunch of kiddies driven by ego and arrogance.
This isn’t the case, so Hoskins won’t allow White to be appointed. Afterall, he said nasty things about him, now Hoskins can get back at White! Maybe his mother’ll buy him some candy afterwards too…
7 Sep 2010, 11:01 am
England were briefly interested in hiring Jake White but he didn’t want to undergo an interview process.
And just like that it was gone.
The guy is ten kinds of arrogant.
7 Sep 2010, 11:02 am
@WP_(WP_)-211:
who told you that – Jacque ?
7 Sep 2010, 11:03 am
@WP_(WP_)-210: so new zealand without carter is a major train smash but the Boks without du preez, brussow, bismarck, should still beat the all blacks?
7 Sep 2010, 11:03 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-218:
No – Ma’a Nonu.
7 Sep 2010, 11:04 am
Transie
Whatever he does, Hoskins is still a doos!
7 Sep 2010, 11:08 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-204:
7 Sep 2010, 11:12 am
218 Black Panther
A little self-confidence never hurt nobody.
He’s better than Conrad Smith anyway. Only comp is BoD
219 Transformation
The ABs without Carter is a totally different animal. Stevie Donald was awful in a black jersey last year. Pdv could have picked Bismark for the last couple of tests, but Chilli is his ‘golden boy’
Boks lose a bit with those two missing but if we selected correctly i reckon we should have beaten the ABs once or twice
7 Sep 2010, 11:13 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-202:
Bro, please drop me an email.
Rob has been trying to get hold of you with my details!!
7 Sep 2010, 11:13 am
logie_Jumpbuck – We have seen a rudderless Bok team emplode before. When things like this happens the Boks need a strong mentor to protect and guide them and i am afraid White is the only man to do this.
I have just read the article on supersport.co.za and i believe Hoskins would be a fool to ignore White.
White is definitely going to bring in Eddie Jones. White is the man to be able to get the top Bok players planned rest during next years S14, will have the guts to rest a few players ahead of this years EOYT, will probably send a Bok B team for the away leg of next years 3N etc etc.
7 Sep 2010, 11:13 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-219: I reckon it is in most people’s eyes – Bismarck was replaced by Smitty, our esteemed irreplaceable captain; the Springbok player of the home tests was du Preez’s replacement – the Zefmeister Hougaard; and Brussouw was replaced by Jake White’s dream player, the Schalkanator.
Carter was replaced by Donald Duck.
7 Sep 2010, 11:14 am
@Slartibartfart(Slartifartfast)-215: steek nog rond! LMAO
7 Sep 2010, 11:23 am
PA I liked your post 57 and it made a lot of sence.
I would like Snor to stay but pleaase Snor just get rid of Muir.
7 Sep 2010, 11:23 am
@garth(garth)-203: There’s no way Heinecke will be AC’s understudy. He’s a much better coach.
7 Sep 2010, 11:25 am
So we did lose our place in world rankings , so than this coaching team must go, bye bye
7 Sep 2010, 11:28 am
Jake’s a fake.
7 Sep 2010, 11:28 am
@WP_(WP_)-223:are you serious? The AB lose carter and that’s it for them but when we lose du preez, brussow, juan smith and bissie we’re supposed to be ok hehehe…are you an all black apologist?
@wpw(wpw)-224: i haven’t received anything from him, will reply as soon as i do
7 Sep 2010, 11:35 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-232:
Please email me at weber dot wesley at gmail dot com.
Maybe Rob doesn’t have your correct email addy!!
7 Sep 2010, 11:39 am
After a long period of self-imposed silence from posting, I have to post on this thread due to its importance.
I can understand Jake’s offer in a warped sense of wanting to restore the Boks and it hurts to see such a great team reduced to looking like idiots.
As mentioned though bananaboy(bananaboy)-201 Jake knows better than anyone how everyone clamours for the coach’s scalp and shouldve offered help instead.
Although this year’s situation is different to 2006. Ironically, the majority of the top players have been available, theyve just been played into the ground! In 2006, there were more injuries and some players were very new (eg Spies).
But lets not forget:
- Jake will not play a fetcher (ironically a major concern with the current Bok team)
- So goodbye Brussow
- Jake is obsessed with size – goodbye Aplon (one of the best performing Boks)
- Our attack was VERY 1-dimensional under Jake
- Never won in NZ under Jake
- Matfield and Du Preez and Jake do not get along
Jake is not the answer, although something has to done to get change the current set up. Im still a fan of PDiv himself and Gold has skills and knowledge – and wants to play good ol’ Bok rugby. The cancer is Muir, he must go.
He has won ONE game in 19 this year – as Lions and Bok coach – ONE game! This is unacceptable.
Mitchell has taken a newer, younger “worse” (no Baywatch, no Alberts, no Ludik, no Mjakevu) and got them beat WP and win 3/4 in a row.
I totally agree with:
Allister – Head coach and defence
Heyneke – Forwards coach
Dawie Theron – asst forwards coach (?)
Slaptjips – backline attack
Jake can be a consultant, or a Director of some type – helping with analysis (he is brilliant at that) and defence.
7 Sep 2010, 11:40 am
@Andre_WP(Andre_WP)-230:
“So we did lose our place in world rankings , so than this coaching team must go, bye bye”
We went to the 2007 RWC ranked lower than both Aus & NZ & and possibly Fra. We came back ranked no. 1 because of double points system gained during the tournament. Who says that this can’t be done again in 2010?
perspective my man…perspective 
7 Sep 2010, 11:43 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-231: that was the 1st comment from you that made sense..well done lad
7 Sep 2010, 11:43 am
@THEBokFan(bokfan1)-234: “Never won in NZ under Jake”….
@THEBokFan(bokfan1)-234: “Never won in NZ under Jake”….
@THEBokFan(bokfan1)-234: “Never won in NZ under Jake”….
there it is… enuf said, end of debate,
7 Sep 2010, 11:44 am
@mountaingoat(mountaingoat)-236:
7 Sep 2010, 11:45 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-226: the biggest ruse jake white sold to his multitude of sycophants was that when his ‘still in construction team’ peaked, it will belt new zealand and australia with ease and frequently! There’s no evidence to support such an idea but that doesn’t stop people talking out of their arses that the ‘world champion’ boks who only got that title by beating the likes of tonga should moer a full strength all black team
7 Sep 2010, 11:46 am
The Kiwis would be getting a sudden bout of the squirts after reading this article.
The only obstacle standing between the current Bok team and another RWC trophy is de Villiers. Hoskins needs to grow a pair and stop sulking. White’s appointment is quite clearly our only option going on from the Tri-nations nightmare.
If there is a better option insofar as a more suitable candidate is concerned with the relevant experience, then lets hear it.
7 Sep 2010, 11:47 am
What has Allister ever achieved as a Head Coach?
7 Sep 2010, 11:49 am
he fills a quota 2 falken
7 Sep 2010, 11:51 am
2 = @
7 Sep 2010, 11:51 am
@theOracle(theOracle)-237: Ja, it is a small thing, but its a big thing too.
The Boks were evolving under Pdiv, even in 2008.
I was always expecting this year to be a **** one (3rd year etc) the main unexpected issues that have made it even worse than could be imagined are:
- SA teams dominating S14 (raised expectation/hope)
- THEN: the first 2 tests in NZ
- the standard of refereeing
- The headbutt and yellow cards
- Bok coaches seeming to sabotage the team (constantly picking overplayed or out of form players for meaningless tests)
In 2006 it sucked, but you didnt get the feeling the coaches were deliberately sabotaging the team.
- Why wasnt Smit subbed in NZ game (Soccer City one)?
- Why were subs left on the bench in the NZ game (Soccer City one)?
- Chiliboy showed he can play (making turnovers etc) so why didnt he come on in John’s 100th test when he was blatantly struggling?
- Why WAS Smit subbed in last game when he was playing so well?
- Why was Habana constantly picked when he was struggling for form?
- There were all kinds of concerns over Aplon’s size (another Jake obsession), yet Habana misses his tackles and Aplon makes his tackles?!
And so on and so on…
And finally – to empahsize again – **** Muir has won ONE game out of 19 this year (S14 and Boks). That is UNACCEPTABLE.
7 Sep 2010, 11:52 am
hey guys
go on you tube dot com and put this after the url watch?v=6wLtxNe0nD0&feature=player_embedded
67m penalty, how do free state produce such?
7 Sep 2010, 11:53 am
@Falken(Falken)-241: Turned the Stormers around to get to S14 final.
Has started WP on an excellent Currie Cup season so far (it may seem bad cos 3 losses in a row – if those 3 losses were more spread out, it would be negligible).
Thats what my china
7 Sep 2010, 11:53 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-240: “The only obstacle standing between the current Bok team and another RWC trophy is de Villiers. Hoskins needs to grow a pair and stop sulking. White’s appointment is quite clearly our only option going on from the Tri-nations nightmare.”
See 237 above… let me rather repost it for you
@THEBokFan(bokfan1)-234: “Never won in NZ under Jake”….
@THEBokFan(bokfan1)-234: “Never won in NZ under Jake”….
@THEBokFan(bokfan1)-234: “Never won in NZ under Jake”….
there it is… enuf said, end of debate,
7 Sep 2010, 11:58 am
@Falken(Falken)-241: He is the most successful non-white coach we have. We cannot put a white coach in charge of a national sport…. or anything else for that matter. Did no-one tell you? Putting the best people forward to do the job is just a mask for racism.
7 Sep 2010, 12:00 pm
@garth(garth)-248: playing the race card is SOOOOOOO lame
hahahahaha
7 Sep 2010, 12:02 pm
theOracle – Hoskins needs to sit down with PDV and have a loooong chat about what he plans to do to turn around the Boks and hopefully be able to defend the Boks RWC titles. Hoskins alos needs to ask PDV what he intends to do to get the top Bok players good rest periods between now and the RWC, as of right now the RWC is more important than a grand slam EOYT. If Hoskins gets a strong feeling that PDV is in free fall than Hoskins needs to have a looooooooooong chat with White and find out from him what he plans to do.
There may come a great compromise out of these meetings such as a director of rugby with White as the first one!!!
7 Sep 2010, 12:02 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-247:
I see no other option. The gold coating has worn off and the undercoat is showing through. It was all a cheap imitation of the former coach’s hard work that got the Boks through 2009…that and grit and determination.
If you don’t have the technical intelligence for the modern game then get out and go back to coaching the Vodacom Cup.
Some people are just too dim to know when to walk away.
7 Sep 2010, 12:04 pm
Jake white will never fix the problem without Eddie.
7 Sep 2010, 12:05 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-249: Totally agree
@garth(garth)-248: Garth, race is not the problem. Two of the Bok coaches are white, and they are big parts of the problem.
Muir is the biggest idiot of the lot (As evident in his stint as Lions coach).
The Bok team is the now whiter than it has been for a long time – yet they are failing dismally.
Im still a fan of Pdiv himself, think he needs more help (or better help) and better coaches with him. The job has obviously been a big step up for him, while Alister (as an example) had 4 years under Jake to get used to it.
Was the white NZ coach also not fit for his job or a quote appointment when the ABs lost 3 to the Boks last year…?
7 Sep 2010, 12:06 pm
i don’t get it, if it’s no secret that PDV’s strength has always been his people management skills and not coaching, surely what is required is to sack Muir and Gold? why is he suddenly being held accountable for coaching problems when everyone has been claiming that he’s not coaching the team anyway?
7 Sep 2010, 12:06 pm
if Eddie is so good, then get heyneke ..cause heyneke’s bulls beat Eddie’s Reds by 90+ @ loftus
7 Sep 2010, 12:09 pm
I would take Jake White. I would take Heyneke Meyer. I would take Alistar Coetzee. I would take anyone over Pieter de Villiers, Muir and Gold.
Jake White may not be the best coach, but at least he realises that and appoints better qualified coaches where needed (Eddie Jones, Gert Smal, Sheryl Calder, etc)
He knows what it takes to win a World Cup.
7 Sep 2010, 12:09 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-239: I’m always amazed by that… let me rephrase… that never ceases to amaze me
The team that he was rebuilding for a few years already still lost AT HOME in the 3N a month or so before the world cup…
7 Sep 2010, 12:11 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-249: very very lame garth
7 Sep 2010, 12:13 pm
@wallabie.(wallabie.)-252: you can say tht again
ppl forget how predictable the boks were be4 eddie moans came in
sure he only tweaked a few things, they say, but professional sport is all about finding ways to add tht extra 5% as thts what makes the difference
7 Sep 2010, 12:13 pm
@Kietzphat(Kietzphat)-256: “He knows what it takes to win a World Cup.”
I would rather have it that “he knows how to win in NZ”… get it? or will he get other better qualified coaches (PdV or Mallet) to show him how to do it?
7 Sep 2010, 12:15 pm
@fantasticbarnsmell(fantasticbarnsmell)-254: Very good point and one I wanted to make to garth(garth)-248
Either you buy the story that the players and asst coaches run the team – in which case Gold, Muir, Matfield and Smit are responsible for the bad selections and game plan, and poor defence (and in reply to Garth’s comment – they are all white).
Or you don’t buy that story, and then PDiv is accountable with the asst coaches for the poor season.
In that case, his 3rd season compares to Jake’s 2006 season.
The he must either be fired, or stay on and either shuffle the coaching duties (like Henry did end of last year) or get new asst coaches (which I would do if I was him – Heyneke/Theron and Allister/Slaptjips/Fleck).
7 Sep 2010, 12:16 pm
@Kietzphat(Kietzphat)-256:
Were you saying that last year? No SA coach will ever have a great record like Henry because the Bokke can’t win away from home, if Krusty wins the WC next year all will be forgiven as it was with White whose record was average at best outside of the WC.
7 Sep 2010, 12:18 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-239:
Simon: and was still building that team in 2006 when everything fell apart.
Team in 2006, 49-0 loss:
Os du Randt 64
John Smit 54
CJ van der Linde 26
Danie Rossouw 16
Victor Matfield 48
Joe van Niekerk 43
Juan Smith 24
Pierre Spies 0
Enrico Januarie 11
Jaco van der Westhuyzen 31
Bryan Habana 17
Wynand Olivier 3
Jaque Fourie 20
Akona Ndungane 0
Percy Montgomery 76
Jacques Cronjé 22
Albert van den Berg 35
Eddie Andrews 19
Danie Coetzee 14
Fourie du Preez 24
Meyer Bosman 2
Breyton Paulse 58
Total caps
413 in the run on
587 in the 22
That team hardly screams inexperience at me.
7 Sep 2010, 12:21 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-262: Typical NZ sh1te.
Did we not win away in 2008?
and in 2009? Any away wins you can remember?
How about 2007? Where was the World Cup again?
Enjoy this year “mate” like we enjoyed last season. Next year we are coming for you, we gonna take the World Cup on NZ soli, and then the debate will be over forever
7 Sep 2010, 12:21 pm
@THEBokFan(bokfan1)-264: soli = soil
7 Sep 2010, 12:22 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-263:
Why is everybody so surpised that the Bokke got the wooden spoon this year it’s their 8th or 9th time they have come last, they win the T3 once every 4 or 5 years and they have a good year every 4 or 5 years.
7 Sep 2010, 12:23 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-240:
Bwhahahaha!
Sorry it took so long to respond…had to find something to wipe away the tears. I didn’t even feel the most recent earthquake!
You have GOT to be kidding. The ONLY think separating the Boks and the ABS is the coach? Really?
Mate, there is a gulf of difference between them. The closeness of the third test was flattering to the Bok.
There are more problems than just the coach. the whole system is K@K. SARU is corrupt and a joke. The coach is a clown. The guys who want to be coaches have no idea about running rugby…and cannot accept that the days of kick/chase are gone. The players are old or tired or fat or just K@K.
The Bokke will one day be ranked 1 again, they will one day win the WC…but not in the next 2 or 3 years. There is a great rebuilding required…rebuilding from the grassroots upwards. (and as usual, will not hold the number one spot for long)
7 Sep 2010, 12:25 pm
@THEBokFan(bokfan1)-264:
Good luck of course you have a great chance of winning the world cup next year but that doesnt change the fact that the Bokke’s away record is very poor.
7 Sep 2010, 12:25 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-266:
It is indeed a weird phenomenon.
I cannot see why this still amazes people in SA generally.
But I put it down to the same reason why people act so surprised when the All Blacks fails time and time again at the World Cup.
7 Sep 2010, 12:26 pm
@hashi(hashi)-267: ‘The closeness of the third test was flattering to the Bok.’
not really, they led for most of the game.
7 Sep 2010, 12:28 pm
A blast from the past.
“SA rugby diaspora’s global reunion via blogfuls of old bulle
May 13, 2007 Edition 1
Although the new and improved user-driven internet known as Web 2.0 has been with us for a while now, South Africans have been a little slow on the uptake. Participation in this virtual revolution, which has advertisers worldwide scrambling for online real estate, is often hard to gauge. A web tool called a blog aggregator drives traffic to blogs by providing links to these and also shows which ones are most popular.
On amatomu (amatomu.com), a brand new South African blog aggregator, you can view statistics on who’s blogging who, what and why. An interesting three-dimensional pie chart in the Trends section shows that South Africans blog most about life, technology and media and marketing. However, when it comes to page impressions, requests for specific subjects, life takes second place to sport.
Amatomu, which means “reins” in isiZulu, lists keo.co.za as South Africa’s most-read blog. Since its name provides no clue to its content, I had a look, expecting to find a community of propellerheads extolling the virtues of citizen journalism.
Instead, I found a website featuring a manic-looking white male in dire need of an eyebrow wax.
Keo.co.za is in fact the site of controversial rugby writer Mark Keohane and “the home of South African rugby fans”.
It is populated by creatures like grootblousmile, Loosehead and Doosdiefdrieduisend. They post comments like: “Wikus is nie bang nie want hy dra blou” and “the BULLS will CRUSH the ‘SADERS like a late harvest Gewürztraminer…” Riveting stuff.
As a member of a family who favours Simon Cowell to Fourie du Preez, it is easy for me to forget that rugby is endemic to the DNA of the average white South African male. The terms openside flank, turnover ball and scrummage seldom feature at our dinner table.
On Friday night at the local pub, I was reminded of how fervent the passion is for the game for men with odd-shaped balls. In public places, the species can be heard bragging about the colour of their blood … blue or green or the ever-popular black and white.
When they venture into hyperspace, the archive of their verbal matings with fellow fans provides a fascinating digital ethnography.
Here, Knersboy advises Boerboel on where he might catch the match in the Netherlands. Knersboy provides Boerboel with two venues: an Irish pub that “sometimes had too many stiff old ballies” and an Australian one in den Haag called “kangaroos too”.
The degree of intimacy in the exchanges sometimes verges on excruciating. “Grootblousmile” lives in Boksburg. I know this because “Hef”, who lives in London, and will be watching the rugby at the Zulus bar, delights at Grootblousmile’s misfortune at having had an early morning blackout on Friday. He knew about it because he read it on 24.com. Grootblousmile replies that he was not affected because “toe lê ek nog en poep ruik”.
To make Hef jealous, Grootblousmile explains how he and his mates do the “Roftus” ritual. First, they pitch their gazebos and unpack the mandatory “braaiers” and cooler boxes. He and his pals even have a “mobile satelietskottel”, DStv decoder and TV, as well as a generator that they “gaat opslaan om die Tjarks game te kyk wyl ons braai en ‘n knertsie gooi”.
So the rugger blogmen display and transmit their memes, bits of cultural information passed on like genes to like-minded individuals across oceans and generations, ensuring their survival through hundreds of playoffs to come.”
7 Sep 2010, 12:30 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-269:
Being the best team in the world most of the time creates too much pressure perhaps?
7 Sep 2010, 12:33 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-272:
For most of the time, playing the wrong type of rugby in a knock-out competition for my money. Low risk, high reward is not in the NZ rugby player’s vocabulary.
7 Sep 2010, 12:33 pm
Burp!
7 Sep 2010, 12:35 pm
Jake will never be reappointed and he knows it. He did an excellent job in RWC 2007 and left an outstanding squad. The game has moved on as it always does and Jake has been away from helm too long. But he is not the problem.
PdV and Co. are the problem now. They are just clearly out of their depth. They are not good enough and have absolutely no ideas whatsoever. The brain that chose to play JdV on the wing, ignoring the brilliant form of Aplon and others is devoid of any understanding of what is required at the top level. Kankowski at flank? WTF? And for the millionth time a Bok fan has to sit stunned into depression by the selection of Januarie.
To those who think that the fat boys have let him down remember this. They had to be selected to play, and were too while other more deserving performers were shut out.
PdV has no vision, no ideas, no leadership, no gameplan and no understanding of the tact and maturity required of an international coach.
He is a liability and has demonstrated nothing whatsoever to give any hope that he can take Boks to RWC glory.
No thanks Jake but even more urgently, No Thanks Piet!
They are not the only candidates in SA. Why don’t we try the unusual approach of picking a coach with Super Rugby experience for a change.
Just give them an IQ test first.
7 Sep 2010, 12:35 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-269:
7 Sep 2010, 12:43 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-273: Our success during RWC’s was thanks to:
1- Great defence
If we win by 3 points, its fine. If we beat the oppossition by 20 point, great. Win is a win. I think thats NZ problem, Pissant you said it so well. Unless AB can change that mind set, more disappointment to follow.
2007 – Their were far better teams out their than the Boks, but the Boks were the most focused and professional team at the tournament.
7 Sep 2010, 12:45 pm
Simon Borchardt is a racist. How come if there is a fallout with a player(ieFrans Steyn) it seems to be the coach that is at fault. If it was a black player, its the other way around. His true clolours are showing!
7 Sep 2010, 12:51 pm
-SA lost to NZ, in the last 30 seconds of the game. After leading most of the game. And probably deserved to win.
-SA lost to Aussie in injury time. After a magnificent comeback.
Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water Okes.
Jake has had his day,
and
Eddie should be strung up for Treason.
The Jake and Eddie Show is in the past.
Some fine tuning is all that is required.
But keep Krusty away from the Press.
7 Sep 2010, 12:52 pm
@Zandberg Jansen(Zandberg Jansen)-277: not sure about that. i think the boks had the best team at the world cup mate.
nz will always be better than sa, they have natural talent that SA will never have, strike runners. and lots of them.
7 Sep 2010, 12:52 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-279:
You realise who you are addressing that too mate?
You have any idea how things are done in this country?
7 Sep 2010, 12:52 pm
@Zandberg Jansen(Zandberg Jansen)-277:
That is exactly the point, a World Cup tournament is a different beast.
7 Sep 2010, 12:55 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-273: yeah, but they will always be favourites amongst rugby fans accross the world because that type of rugby year in year out will win them more games than losing and it’s much more attractive.
7 Sep 2010, 12:55 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-281:
Too = to.
7 Sep 2010, 12:56 pm
Wazzup people!
7 Sep 2010, 12:58 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck)-280: Well not according to the NZ folk, watch Reunion show…. they can’t stop talking about SA talent!!
7 Sep 2010, 13:00 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-282: Finallly somebody agrees….Total different ball game!
7 Sep 2010, 13:00 pm
There should always be consequences for poor performance and although I have always supported PDV it is time for his journey as Bok coach to end.
as the saying goes in any given sunday – “this is a game of inches” and the inches in PdVs last 2 defeats are the difference between relative success and failure.
i have understood that the boks were not targeting this yrs 3N to win the tournament, but 1 win is certainly no goal and is definitely part of no plan.
PdV needs to do an honourable thing now and resign – he is only giving satisfaction to his detractors who would never credit him with success anyway. Damage is being done to the bok now – not so much by the coach, who i believe is an honourable man but by these journo hynenas whose constant personal attacks reflect not ownly badly on the team and its recent heritage but on themselves and their craft.
The solution – no Jake white, for he has shown himself recently to be honourless as he has done to another Bok coach what he railed against in his book. There is one man of honour left – a hard target for disengenous journos – who would be suitable to take the reins of the Boks up to and beyond the world cup. He must be given Carte Blanche with who he appoints as his assistants and with who and where he selects players.
This man is H. Meyer.
It is his time…
7 Sep 2010, 13:03 pm
@Zandberg Jansen(Zandberg Jansen)-277:
No …………….England and France won the WCup for you Okes.
All SA had to do, was beat ONE Team, that had ever beaten SA, in over 100 yrs of Test Rugby.
And THAT team…………England, was the worst English Team in the Entire History of English Rugby. EVER. fact.
Jake got lucky.
Judas Jones got lucky.
But lets be honest here…………….Jake ain’t gunna get the Bok Coaching job, as long as his poehole faces the ground. Is he?
And everybody knows it, so why the article?
7 Sep 2010, 13:03 pm
@Zandberg Jansen(Zandberg Jansen)-286: how long have you been watching reunion mate? they only praise our talent when we are winning. nope, we have a bigger player base, second to england, but that means nothing when your compare apples with apples.
7 Sep 2010, 13:05 pm
What a joke…
7 Sep 2010, 13:06 pm
@zub(zub)-271: Awesome article! Hahahah “le en poep ruik”
7 Sep 2010, 13:06 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck)-280: NZ can never be better thatn SA. We have all the talent but our coaches are poor. I am sure if we get a new zealand coach we will be the best
7 Sep 2010, 13:07 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-289: england and france won the world cup for us hey?
i can hear you fuming of jealousy from here mate. turn it up!
so what of nz then? why can they not win a world cup? because france lost it for them twice?
7 Sep 2010, 13:08 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-289: All you had to do was beat one team, a crappy french side that lost three times in their own world cup.
7 Sep 2010, 13:10 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-65: So, you judge content based on who writes it?, So if you happen not to like the poster, that then means the poster cant tell the truth?, this is an indication of what is wrong with this country, you have just epitomized it, well done!!!!!
7 Sep 2010, 13:10 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-289: You talking absolute twaddle – if you aint good enough to win it you aint good enough.
The Boks are World Champs till next year October – case closed, no argument.
If the abs cant beat France in a tournament then they don’t have what it takes to be World Champs.
Simple…
7 Sep 2010, 13:13 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-289: Don’t agree with your ascessment!!! To be beaten 36 – 0 in the pool games and to come back and play in the final…..must be joking….!!!
7 Sep 2010, 13:13 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-289: ‘And THAT team…………England, was the worst English Team in the Entire History of English Rugby. EVER. fact.’
you’re wrong, very, very wrong.
7 Sep 2010, 13:15 pm
@blackbok(blackbok)-278: wot r u on about?
7 Sep 2010, 13:15 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-289: i think you just got your arse handed to you mate
7 Sep 2010, 13:16 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-279: sure some fine tuning
wot you are suggesting is we lacked fitness
thats the coach’s mistake by not picking guys who could last the full 80
7 Sep 2010, 13:16 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-297: Nuff said!!
7 Sep 2010, 13:17 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-288: TRUE!! Jake White is a shrewd opportunist. He was a very weak coach who surrounded himself with the media(Mark Keone) to promote his agenda and cover his weaknesses. Constructive citicism would have been much more appreciated. He doenst offer solutions, just criticism…He reminds me of the DA!
7 Sep 2010, 13:18 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-285: ‘Sup Dawn? How’s the strike going?
7 Sep 2010, 13:19 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-288: i agree on Meyer
or some1 with proven Super 14 success
mind you, some would’ve picked Muir saying he was 20 seconds away from glory
his stint at the lions however exposed all that he is not
7 Sep 2010, 13:20 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-288: The ideal coaching setup would be:
Head Coach: Meyer
Forwards: Plumtree and Smal
Backs: Pieter Rossouw
The problem is that all of these chaps are under contract – this is going to be an expensive exercise paying off the current crew and persuading new personnel on board…
7 Sep 2010, 13:20 pm
@stormer in a teacup(stormer in a teacup)-295: hahaha
CLASSIC
wot a loser
7 Sep 2010, 13:21 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-281:
“You have any idea how things are done in this country?”
Probably not PA.
I was merely trying to point out, that the talent is there or there abouts.
For a start, Frans Steyn was selected …………most likely ………………………………………………..for no other reason, than “public pressure”.
And he was crrapp.
Aplon had done a fine job and was dropped.
Kirchner (spelling) did nothing wrong and was dropped.
SA is an aging team for sure. But generally it has not passed it’s “use by date” yet.
7 Sep 2010, 13:21 pm
My main problem with Jake is his stated desire to rebuild the traditional Springbok brand and style of rugby. Which era he’s referring to is vague, although his choice of Bok blazers might give a hint.
Recently, at the Lions, he spoke of creating a style of rugby that was distinctive for the team and different from others. In this article he says we’re not the Wallabies, ABs etc.
What he misses is that the game has changed radically, and so have the choice of players for any specific style. Both the ABs and wallabies have changed their (traditional)approach over the decades to accomodate new laws, different players and different coaches. What has remained constant is the skills and basics. For some reason, Jake believes that a lack of skills can be overcome by a specific game plan and physique and that players are merely pawns in the coaches overall strategy.
This rather naive and nostalgic approach flies in the face of creative and progressive coaching.
Jakes playbook was a mix of Woodwards WC planning and Eddie Jones anaylisis of the 2003 WC that he did for the ARU. There was nothing of his own, other than the aforementioned retro style blazers and caps. We need a coach, not a brand manager.
7 Sep 2010, 13:21 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-307: What about Allan Solomons
7 Sep 2010, 13:22 pm
@blackbok(blackbok)-304: it is sickening. I have lost all admiration for JW in the past year – the man has no shame,…. and as for his minions….
7 Sep 2010, 13:22 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck)-301: hahaha
LMAO
u guys are killing this Panzer CLOWN
he and PdV should form an act
7 Sep 2010, 13:23 pm
@Papoose(papaown)-306: **** Muir was exposed at the Sharks before he ran off to Pirates and then the Lions….
7 Sep 2010, 13:24 pm
You don’t need to be a good coach to be head coach. Ask Shane Warne about John Buchanan. The problem with PdV is his loyalty. He won’t sack Gold or Muir. He isn’t brave enough. Ironically it will be his honesty and loyalty that will be his downfall. Like a marriage, without respect, you are doomed.
7 Sep 2010, 13:26 pm
@blackbok(blackbok)-311: True. Solomons and Meyer would make an interesting but formidable combo. i wonder if they could work together. nevertheless if Meyer is head coach he should have his choice of assistants – something PdV was not afforded…
7 Sep 2010, 13:27 pm
@BokEd(BokEd)-315: Coaching is VERY different in cricket than it is to rugby.
Not a good example mate.
7 Sep 2010, 13:28 pm
@BokEd(BokEd)-315: PdV had those 2 assistants foisted on him by Saru.
what is attractive about Meyer is his organisational skills.
7 Sep 2010, 13:28 pm
OOOOPS ………….sorry okes,
The magnitude of your WC Victory escaped me for a moment.
I forgot about those wins of over Pacific Atolls,
so small,
they cannot be seen from space.
7 Sep 2010, 13:29 pm
@BokEd(BokEd)-315:
I don’t think PdeV has the power or authority to sack Muir and Gold.
What he is missing, I believe, is a relationship with other top coaches to discuss the game, something Jake did with Woodward and Eddie early on in his tenure.
7 Sep 2010, 13:29 pm
Following Boks withdrawn from CC until 6th October:
Vodacom Blue Bulls – Victor Matfield , Danie Rossouw, Bakkies Botha, Wynand Olivier, Morne Steyn, Fourie du Preez and Pierre Spies
The Sharks – John Smit, Bismarck du Plessis, Tendai Mtawarira, JP Pietersen and Adi Jacobs
Vodacom Western Province– Schalk Burger, Jaque Fourie, Bryan Habana, Ricky Januarie and Andries Bekker
Vodacom Free State Cheetahs – Juan Smith, Heinrich Brüssow and CJ van der Linde
7 Sep 2010, 13:29 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-316: Solomons and Slapchips combo will work well. There shouldnt also be too many advisors. As we all know, rugby is a game filled to the brim with testosterone, and too many advisors will cause too many opinions and inturn, problems.
7 Sep 2010, 13:30 pm
@David(David)-310: You speak much truth however I do not agree that Bok players lack individual skills.
7 Sep 2010, 13:32 pm
Jake is the best option an an interim and then after we win the 2011 WC then the next wave can come in be it Coetzee, Heyneke, Solomomns, Mitchell, Erasmus, Deans etc.
7 Sep 2010, 13:32 pm
@blackbok(blackbok)-322: Yeah there is an argument against too big a coaching entourage – but there is a counterargument where specialization works – if anyone has the organisational tools to hold it all together – it is Meyer…
7 Sep 2010, 13:33 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-325: or organisational skills i should say
7 Sep 2010, 13:35 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-312: jake is a TOOL
end of story
most ppl can see through him, except his minions
7 Sep 2010, 13:35 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-319: one of those atolls being that pimple on the world’s nought…nz
7 Sep 2010, 13:35 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-314: HMMM?
how so
some would say as head coach he was 20 seconds away from sa’s 1st super 14 title…
7 Sep 2010, 13:36 pm
@Papoose(papaown)-327: I did admire him once – NO LONGER – he and his minions are men without honour. The Evidence is plain to see.
7 Sep 2010, 13:37 pm
Bad idea Simon.
7 Sep 2010, 13:37 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-323:
I was referring more to Jakes rigid approach and lack of encouragement for those skills.
I still remember Alistair saying in their 2nd year, that they were introducing some more tactics, but don’t expect to see things like offloading in the tackle, too soon. For me, that’s part of the basics, not some special tactic.
7 Sep 2010, 13:37 pm
@BokEd(BokEd)-315: interesting analysis
one of the best i’ve read so far
7 Sep 2010, 13:37 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-328: LMAO
7 Sep 2010, 13:38 pm
@Papoose(papaown)-329: The following year… It all fell apart as the structures truly became di.cks own…
7 Sep 2010, 13:39 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-321: Bakkies Botha? isnt he just now allowed to play again? why rest him.. hes had two months off already
7 Sep 2010, 13:40 pm
@David(David)-332: i would see offloading as more of a tactic…
7 Sep 2010, 13:40 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-321: Januarie?
come on now
this is going too far
7 Sep 2010, 13:41 pm
@poppa69(poppa69)-336: @Papoose(papaown)-338:
That is the official list from SA rugby.
Those players are not available until 6 October.
7 Sep 2010, 13:43 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-299:
Between 2004 and 2007 inclusive, Old Blighty played 17 matches against Tier 1 Rugby Nations.
Including WC matches in 2007.
England won 4 of those 17 matches.
If England have had more dire era’s in their Rugby History…………………..
Well I’m speechless!
7 Sep 2010, 13:43 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-321: Bulls hardest hit. Eish. Why Bakkies? JDV, JdJ and Gio Aplon available for WP, hardly seems fair. Ricky withdrawn? Now we know PDV is a WP-fan! Agile was right all along!
7 Sep 2010, 13:44 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-341:
BWahahaha…
Yeah well..
Look as far as I understand these guys are all contracted Boks, the others not so I dont think Peter has any say over them…
7 Sep 2010, 13:45 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-342: Makes sense.
7 Sep 2010, 13:45 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-340: england went 2 better than NZ in the world Cup 2007.
actually England’s record in WC’s at least equals NZ.
7 Sep 2010, 13:47 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-339: sounds like that might be the team for the AIs…
7 Sep 2010, 13:47 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-335: i’m nt a fan, just pointing out as devils advocate
7 Sep 2010, 13:49 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-328:
No HG you didn’t beat us.
Since the advent of Neutral Refs,
beating real opposition has been a little more difficult for you Okes.
But you should beat us everytime, given that you have 3 times the player base.
NZ……….. the little Country that could.
And does.
7 Sep 2010, 13:50 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-319: And we salute your triumphs over Portugal, Romania, Scotland, Italy and um, er that’s it.
7 Sep 2010, 13:50 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-321: if i understand correctly..some from tht list will still play in th currie cup
only a 4 week break?
7 Sep 2010, 13:50 pm
stormer in a teacup – Every Bok coach that has been appointed that was previously a S14 coach, failed miserably!!!!
7 Sep 2010, 13:51 pm
Give Jake the respect he deserves. He won us a world cup;built stability with a squad capable of beating the British Lions and winning the Tri nations.
The core group of players he had confidence won SA a our second world cup and those players brought PDV success up until now. J.White sure as hell knows how to get the best out of good players. He did it once and a good coach doesnt go bad within a few years. Look at Gream Hendry after last years Tri Nations. Jake can do it again. Even if its just improving the boks overall performance so the supporters can have some hope that the boks will be competitive enough to defend the WC title.
PDV is a clown. After Strauli’s disastrous run as coach, Jake White made the Springboks a respectable and feared team. Id rather have that than keep on feeling ashamed with that snor nutter galling the shots.
Remember how Jake turned things around. I respect him for that and do believe he will make a difference.
7 Sep 2010, 13:51 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-350:
SA Rugby’s statement made no mention of this, according to their statement all these guys are withdrawn.
7 Sep 2010, 13:53 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-321: Adi Jacobs? January?
Jy’s sekerlik nie ernstig nie!
7 Sep 2010, 13:54 pm
@Papoose(papaown)-346: Yeah, what you say is true – but this is a bit of a “funny” in rugby – sometimes with a new coach you get this initial “bounce” particularly if the new coach is very different to the previous one. However if the coach does not introduce sustainable structures and imparts authority then he tends to get exposed: at the Sharks, muir was over-familiar with the players and it seems he was like that at the Lions. his lack of success since replicated his initial success.
7 Sep 2010, 13:55 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-354:his lack of success since has not replicated his initial success.
7 Sep 2010, 13:55 pm
@Papoose(papaown)-302:
“wot you are suggesting is we lacked fitness………”
No Papooose,
I’m suggesting only that you Bok Fans lack mental fitness.
7 Sep 2010, 13:55 pm
@Jeez(Jeez)-351: Dude, Eddie won the World Cup for SA!
7 Sep 2010, 13:58 pm
@Staal(Staal)-353:
So ernstig soos n hartaanval.
7 Sep 2010, 13:59 pm
@Jeez(Jeez)-351: Jake the Snake was not with the boks in 2008.
we all know how successful that year was – so how could Jake have built stability within the squad for 2009?
jake white and his media minions only have themselves to blame for this current lack of respect of the man. They must really think sa rugby fans are thick with some of the bullsh.yte they are saying and writing…
7 Sep 2010, 13:59 pm
@David(David)-332: Offloading in the tackle is already an archaic idea IMO.
I noticed how well the Wallabies distribute the ball just before they make contact, specifically on the counterattack.
It is all about the ball carrier positioning himself and two supporting players positioning themselves according to the situation to ensure the carrier have passing options on both shoulders and adequate support to contest the collision point if necessary.
The key is to distribute just before contact to a supporting player running at pace. Why? Because then the next carrier would have had that extra second to decide the appropriate running line.
And just how good were their positioning on the counter – when M.Steyn kicked out the ball in touch, the retreating forwards and backs already started organising and positioning themselves in bundles to ensure they will be able to support a counterattacking back 3.
Modern rugby made simple.
7 Sep 2010, 14:02 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-358:
Miskien is ons moeilikheid dan groter as wat ek dink!
7 Sep 2010, 14:02 pm
PissAnt – Are you very against the idea of White coming back in?
The only reason i would like White back is ha has good pa with reporters, has the guts to send a Bok B team for away leg of 3N and the he will bring in Eddie Jones. EJ’s influence was immediately seen in the Boks RWC warm up games!!
7 Sep 2010, 14:03 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-350: Which leaves us where?
7 Sep 2010, 14:03 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-321: they are all going to look like pierre spies by the time they get back out of the gym. all strong anf fit and fast and….well, you get the picture.
7 Sep 2010, 14:04 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-356: all Black fans are not known for their intellectual ablity. i would go as far to say that many ab fans are as close to chavball supporting scum as you will ever get in the oval ball sport (especially when they lose0… and this is not only experiental observation but also one replicated by some journos…
7 Sep 2010, 14:04 pm
@stormer in a teacup(stormer in a D cup)-348:
NZ are unbeaten in this years 3N.
We may not be the World Champs.
But we have “Rogered” the World Chumps 3-zip.
A bonus point victory every time I think..
7 Sep 2010, 14:04 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-359: the core of the world cup group was in the 2009 squad
7 Sep 2010, 14:04 pm
@Jeez(Jeez)-351: I was a JW fan when he was Springbok coach. He isn’t now and he should find another job instead of constantly using the media to flaunt his CV.
7 Sep 2010, 14:04 pm
Oh dear i just realised that Guthro Steenkamp won’t be in the conditioning program. That man has improved big time and is well overdue a good rest, i just hope he gets one!!
7 Sep 2010, 14:06 pm
stormer in a teacup – The Lord only knows. Maybe it’s time for SARU to appoint/create a director of rugby and give the post to Jake White.
7 Sep 2010, 14:07 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-357: mmm i wonder who had enough foresight to appoint Eddie…. was a pretty smart move by a coach that made important decisions to make the team better. Thats good coaching… Eddie played his role
7 Sep 2010, 14:08 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-362:
I am against making changes, especially as huge as this, if there is no clear or definitive value to be gained.
The Boks in my mind need to innovation, not a different guy that will use the same players, and do the same things – which is what Jake will do – albeit when he gets hold of them most of them will be well rested.
I think Jake can ADD value to the Boks, but not at the expense of firing the one to add the other – little value in a move like that for me.
7 Sep 2010, 14:10 pm
@Jeez(Jeez)-367: But then quite a few new players were introduced that were added to the team… your argument is not buyable: 2007 – peak (Jake? or Eddie?), 2008 – trough (obviously PdV, hey) and then 2009 – peak (Jake – WTF???)
Come on, man use some logic….
7 Sep 2010, 14:11 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-321: this withdrawal should have been done on an individual basis, not all contracted players. a player like Bismack, JP need much game time as they just got back from lengthy injuries.
WO etc should not be rested as they are not in need of conditioning.
i thought logic was going to be applied on this list, clearly it seems not unless the unions were not willing to play ball.
7 Sep 2010, 14:11 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-366: And yet as you rightly point out, you are not world champs.
7 Sep 2010, 14:11 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-372: PA – to ge honest, these 3 coaches of u are not covering themselves in glory.
Ek meen – hell they are reactive…. and seems to be totally behind the 8ball.
aggenee man.
i personally can’t see these guys turn it around. Honestly. and i am not a JW fan at all but hell Minder hulle weet nie wat hul doen nie..
7 Sep 2010, 14:13 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-365:
“all Black fans are not known for their intellectual ablity.”
This from the Land of Pieter van Zyl.
7 Sep 2010, 14:13 pm
@BokEd(BokEd)-368: Even so, i dont doubt the fact that he will make improvements to the circus that is PDV. The bok history is full of shameful incidences. Jake White should be remembered for his success, especially when we are the laughingstock of world rugby again… and its not even in reaction to the rugby that we play, but the potential ludicrous things our coach might say. Enough. Nobody will want to coach a team now, if Jake’s willing let him do it. Enough with being a joke with PDV incharge
7 Sep 2010, 14:14 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-372: This is why it is now Meyer’s time.
7 Sep 2010, 14:14 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-57: Dang PA, worked up there huh? i can see JW is a touchy subject for you
7 Sep 2010, 14:14 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-340: it’s not about matches between World Cups, for a start half the World Cup squad was unavailable from 2004-2007 due to a series of long term injuries. They played under the badge but most of the time we could only get around 75% of our best of the field. That’s one of the problem with NZ, they think they have the tournament won before they get there not realising that other sides build on a 4 year basis and are ready.
That England team had the best defence in the knockout stages, the biggest pack in the tournament and possibly ever assembled in world rugby, the only WC winning flyhalf, it was the most experienced side too with several WC winners and was good enough to knock Australia out in the searing heat of Marseille and defeat France in Paris (not Cardiff like NZ) to make a second consecutive final. Don’t be surprised if it happens again next year, we’re building, believe me.
@Panzer Chief(cane)-309: Frans Steyn was rusty, but not poor and contributed 8 points to the win the previous week.
Bryan Habana was awful
v NZ – he gifted a try to McCaw by coming off his wing and let them into the game
v Aus 1 – he dropped a easy ball allowing O’Connor to score, then he tried to run it out instead of kicking and coughed up another try
v Aus 2 – he tries to run it out and coughs up a 3 pointer, he then comes off his wing allowing O’Connor an easy run in for a Beale try, then he misses a with a poor tackle on O’Connor allowing him another run in try for Elsom
If there was another winger selected, there’s a strong possibility they wouldn’t have lost any of the three games but the coaches were too slow to react.
7 Sep 2010, 14:16 pm
Simple question:
How much power would a new coach have?
7 Sep 2010, 14:17 pm
@Staal(Staal)-376:
No doubt, I made mention of this elsewhere in quite a lengthy post that the system (Bok rugby) is driven by elements (players) within the system and that is not very bright if you want sustained success.
They need to be driven from the outside, so help is needed and I am sure Jake can help in that role, or many other guys out there.
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-380:
Nah not at all, never get worked up. And I am actually a huge Jake White fan… Most on here (ask Skoppie) will tell you that.
7 Sep 2010, 14:18 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-373: ‘some’ players. The most capped squad of all time didnt earn there caps under PDV. I dont think you know how a TEAM works. Besides do you think things would have been any different if JW stayed as coach after the world cup until 2009? And as we know the players have more say than the coach in this setup.
7 Sep 2010, 14:18 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-379:
Any coach with any type of future in this game will not touch this position if it became available right now.
They would be out of their minds.
Too much to lose, very little to gain.
7 Sep 2010, 14:19 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-377: one idiot does not make a characteristic;
a kissing couzin ozzie journo made a negative observation about kiwi fans
a french journo made a similar one after the wc 2007 matchup
photo’s of bottle being thrown on pitches
personal experience at twickenham when abs lost to baabaas
yeah, kiwis – all nice and sweet when the abs win, but a different story when they lose…
Please don’t be typically duplicitous…
7 Sep 2010, 14:19 pm
@stormer in a teacup(stormer in a teacup)-375:
No, SA are the WC Holders.
And that is cast in Silver.
As it should be.
I have never suggested otherwise.
You can only beat that which confronts you.
I only point out………. that you have an easy ride.
7 Sep 2010, 14:24 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-385: “Any coach with any type of future in this game will not touch this position if it became available right now.
They would be out of their minds.”
Unless your ego is bigger than your mind.
7 Sep 2010, 14:24 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-385: I would imaging meyer would give it consideration – the bulls have a coach and meyer’s function there is long term at the moment as DOR. he would thus be available. his organisatinal skills and reputation would make him a good pick at the moment – he would also prove a hard target to hit for the journo minions.
much of the team is familiar with his coaching style and he has their respect.
agree though that snake white is not the answer if only for the reason of his treacherous recent publicity…
7 Sep 2010, 14:26 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-383: ahhhhh oki dokes
I’m a bit torn on this issue, on one side i say dont remove the coach, its too close to RWC but on the other hand will our current coaches have the vision to see their own deficiencies at this level and bring in the required people to give the Boks all the small percentage improvements that are required.
when you listen to the current coaches you very seldom get the feeling that they are focusing on the small details that help make any organisation successful.
Pdivvy is going nowhere that is for sure, the question is will they have that honestly required to give the Boks every chance at winning next year
7 Sep 2010, 14:26 pm
Big Hit – It seemed to me that lately Habana has been looking frustrated and not being able to play his natural game. So he has been trying to influence games by doing dumb things which again highlights the fact which game plan are the Boks trying to play?
The tries in the last game were more of individual brilliance rather than planned moves. Which goes to show the Boks still have great players, just the coaching is lacking. PDV doesnot look like the type of coach that will accept outside help
7 Sep 2010, 14:26 pm
@willievz(willievz)-388:
Or that.
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-389:
Not doubting the man’s credentials or ability to do a hospital job, but a decision like that can easily ruin your career.
If I was him, I would not even give it a thought.
7 Sep 2010, 14:28 pm
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-390:
It is the million dollar question…
PDV will do whatever he can to make the Boks successful, any coach would.
Question is does he know what to do, or where the problem lies?
Unless he knows that, there is nothing to fix…
7 Sep 2010, 14:29 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-387: NZ had the easier ride. Italy, Scotland B, Portugal, Romania and France on neutral ground but still messed it up. SA are the World Champions, NZ are the Tri Nations Cup holders.
7 Sep 2010, 14:31 pm
Jake obviously don’t believe the team is so bad, or he would not think about taking them over again.
For someone in that position, to make such statements in the media (if in fact he did) would be a disgrace. Having been part of the setup he should no that nothing good could come from it.
The Tri-Nations was a disgrace, but the return and play of Juan Smith showed the impact one player can make on a team. If we keep in mind the two of our best players (Brussouw and Du Preez) are injured and assess our problem areas, you’d realise that with them back we’re already much closer to the final package.
Consider F. Steyn is in the wrong end of his season, JDV has not stopped playing for years (it feels like) and Smit, Matfield can only get better with some rest…..and one or two of the youngsters break through (Mvovu, Lambie)….
We’re not the favourites (which I prefer), but we are right up there and have a good shot to defend.
7 Sep 2010, 14:33 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-391: I just think he’s lacking sharpness and off form.
If you count up the points he was responsible for it adds up to 38 points conceded over 3 games directly down to his mistakes, that’s horrific.
That said, no one can blame him, he doesn’t pick himself and good players should always believe in themselves. He is a great player and with a rest he’ll be back to his best but the coaches messed up badly on that one.
7 Sep 2010, 14:34 pm
@Jeez(Jeez)-384: Well if it was only the players then they didn’t do too well in 2008 and now in 2010. doesn’t explain the sudden huge difference in 2009, though. Could it be that PdV may have had some influence…? Either way it is time for a consequence for poor results – the consequence should be for an honourable man (PdV) to do the honourable thing and resign. this should not mean a vacuum for a dishnourable man (JW) to take his place – but rather a space for a man who is respected by most (players, fans, media)… H. Meyer. fullstop.
7 Sep 2010, 14:36 pm
@grant10(grant10)-100: Watson should never be allowed back in this country, he’s a frikken malignant chop.
7 Sep 2010, 14:37 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-386:
But lets be honest here………………….We might have old Tackler here on Our shores.
But even he, wouldn’t assault a Neutral Ref in front of 23 million International Viewers.
Live…………………via satellite.
Real time.
This is life,
Prime Time.
livin the Saffa way.
7 Sep 2010, 14:38 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-392: true, but he will forever be legend at the bulls – his rep will never take a hit there. however, if he wants a challenge and to leave a legacy at the boks like he has at the bulls – this would be an opportunity IF they came knocking on his door. i would imagine he would only take the job on his terms this time around – Carte Blanche or nothing…
7 Sep 2010, 14:38 pm
MacToogie – I agree. The Boks are pretty much an automatic shue in to the RWC semis next year. The only team in their way is Ireland, who we haven’t beaten in a while, but generally Ireland implode at RWC’s. We will more than likely meet the ABs in the semis unless the French beat them in the group stages.
We have the players to win the RWC but who is the best coach to make history?
7 Sep 2010, 14:38 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-393: This is the worry – PdV seems to be NOT AWARE, or at least does not share real rugby reasons that make sense. Yes he is honest, yes he is refreshing, yes he is loyal – but does he have the ability to form a vision and carry it out? If so, great I am happy to be wrong. I really hope he is just being crafty, perhaps his planning has been completed already and all is under control..
JW has a calm and deliberate approach that appeals right now. The worry is that the Bokke go backwards and revert to a style that is not applicable with regard to the new rules.
7 Sep 2010, 14:40 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-397: HG – I reckon the huge improvement was a combination of a few things. 1 – canning D Muir’s helter skelter “touch rugby” nonsence. 2 – hunger. 3 – Heinrich Brussow!!
7 Sep 2010, 14:41 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-399: pure hooliganism and unbelievably sour after a match – the kiwi way. seeing it for myself served me to lose respect for the average kiwi fan. van zyl is not a typical bok fan – big difference there.
7 Sep 2010, 14:42 pm
I think the Bok management could do with additional blood, not necessarily new blood.
Keep Div as the head coach.
Think about keeping Gold as forwards coach and think twice about Muir as backline coach. I would not mind seeing Muir getting the boot.
But here are key additions for me, even if just in consulting form:
-(Specialist) Defense coach – most important, and a permanent appointment
-Counterattack consultant – not many specialists around, but worth a shop for someone with insights, particularly in our positioning and organisation around fellow players
-(Specialist) Breakdown consultant – this person will share responsibilities with the defense coach for sure, but we need someone to help us identify strategies to speed up our own ruck ball too
-Referee consultant – someone like Andre Watson would be ideal, who can liaise with the referee the week before a test and communicate back to the team. He also needs to oversee and whistle in training.
7 Sep 2010, 14:43 pm
@BokEd(BokEd)-403: Could be, but to attribute successes under PdV all to jake the snake is not right. absolute cr.ap, in fact.
7 Sep 2010, 14:44 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-394:
You contested my opinion that the English Team, leading up to WC in 2007, was the worst in the History of English Rugby.
So what other Era had a more Shiit team?
7 Sep 2010, 14:47 pm
@willievz(willievz)-360:
I actually include releasing just before the tackle with offloading in the tackle. A lot depends on the proximity of the support runners. The aim in both cases, though, is to commit the opposition to the tackle. Our problem, which we’ve discussed many times, is that our players haven’t been drilled in these moves, outside of the set ones. It should be instinctive for at least 2 players to support the ball carrier, one on each side and looking at the different angles to take.
7 Sep 2010, 14:48 pm
@rugby911(rugby911)-402:
It depends what the problem is I guess and whether Jake has the tools to fix them.
I will speculate that one major problem is rugby’s success or failure is made up of the sum of parts, each part playing a vital role in the sustainability of a team’s success, but having parts of this system (players) drive this system is not a very bright idea.
The players of course wouldn’t ever admit to this, and they may well be unaware. Those 15 guys are certainly trying their best. Players who achieve the very highest level of success start to come down off that same uncompromising approach to excellence that got them there. They may cut 5 minutes out of their video session, they may take one or two short-cuts in training, and the cumulative effects of all these tiny things in preparation is a player who makes just one or two more mistakes than they ordinarily would.
The difference between winning and losing at this level is very small. Changes therefore should not be wholesale, but rather small adjustments need to be made.
I mentioned this before, all of the above has been predicted by people like Ross Tucker months ago already.
7 Sep 2010, 14:49 pm
@willievz(willievz)-405: Yo speak sense here – but, PdV has lost much authority here – not so much due to his own lack of results but also due to some external factors such as a hostile, treacherous press – this is now harming the boks badly.
a new coach will sweep the room clean, as such.
if there was a time to do it, it is now… takes the wind out of sails of many. I would like it to be meyer for many rugby reasons but not least due to the fact that it would be a big finger to JW and his minions…
7 Sep 2010, 14:51 pm
@rugby911(rugby911)-402: the Boks in the second half were much much better, and they did it in a way that most successful Bok teams have done it, they were physical and direct, SA players cant handle an open game, they need to dictate, this **** of not kicking the ball into the stands is also killing us, it takes away one of our greatest weapons when they have 15 quick throws in a game, people who advocate the open game the Boks need to play are delusional, stick to what works for you, that is the beauty of rugby.
7 Sep 2010, 14:51 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-406: Agreed.
7 Sep 2010, 14:52 pm
@BokEd(BokEd)-412: great minds think alike
7 Sep 2010, 14:52 pm
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-411:
For parts in just about all the tests in this year’s Tri-Nations apart from the opening test in Auckland, the Springboks played some inspired rugby, only for it all to fall apart or for them to conspire against themselves.
The question is not therefore whether we can play the type of rugby to beat the best in the world, the question is why this cannot be done more often and for longer periods.
Peter de Villiers does not have very far to look to find the problem with his team, but I doubt whether he is looking in the right place.
7 Sep 2010, 14:55 pm
Check out Boks choosen for conditioning programme on Tri-Nations thread.
7 Sep 2010, 14:57 pm
where is sodajoe?
I been telling mofos that this myth of the all blacks playing some newly found game that is based on the new law interpretations is bullsh*t! That they’ve been playing the same game as they did last year only their execution and fitness now is top drawer! And i told Soda the ‘tipping point’ for this was the demolition
of france last year! The same french team that BELTED the Boks!
NZ face ill-fated history
5 minutes ago
Nelson – There’s an uneasy sense of deja
vu in New Zealand after the current all-
conquering All Blacks squad completed a
rout of all the top rugby playing nations a
year before the Rugby World Cup.
The 29-22 win over South Africa in Soweto
last month to regain the Tri-Nations trophy
sealed a remarkable turn around for a side
humbled by the Springboks in all three
Tests they played the previous year.
They’ve since won 14 Tests on the trot,
beating the best on offer in the northern
and southern hemispheres, and firmly
entrenched themselves as the number one
ranked side in the world.
But history shows the All Blacks are always
conquerors a year before the World Cup
and then fail to deliver when it counts.
“Not this time,” says coach Graham Henry
who managed to retain his post despite the
All Blacks crashing out in the quarter-finals
at the last World Cup.
Henry’s learnt from his past mistakes and
the ill-fated high-rotation policy before the
last Cup, which saw his ‘A’ team go in
under-prepared, has not been repeated.
Instead there’s an established look about
the starting line up to go with their new
brand of free-flowing rugby.
But Henry insists he has plenty to do to get
the new ball-in-hand style right and rather
than being at a peak now there is room for
improvement in the All Blacks.
“We have to keep on researching the game.
We will do that over the next 12 months,
keeping abreast of what is happening in
the French top 14 and the European Cup,”
he said.
“Just look at games and see if there are
ideas coming through. We are thinking
about what we are doing and how we can
improve on it.”
Captain Richie McCaw agrees.
“You only peak when you feel you can’t
get better. We are happy with where we
are at, but we are not kidding ourselves
either. We are playing well but we can still
get better,” he says.
Henry also plays down his new coaching
approach for the All Blacks current run of
14 consecutive wins and says he drew his
line in the sand when the team embarked
on their northern hemisphere tour last
year.
“A lot of the benefits we are seeing now
are a result of last year’s Tri-Nations where
we hit rock bottom and we had to re-
establish ourselves,” he said.
“The tour helped us do that considerably.
We really set some objectives and it came
together in the last Test. Quite frankly that
was beyond my expectations at the time,”
he said of the way the All Blacks thrashed
France 39-12 and scored five tries to none.
“I thought we had played soundly in the
Test matches up till then without having
any brilliance. And we played with some
brilliance in that game and that set the
standard for this year.”
And in eight Tests so far this year the All
Blacks have scored 36 tries and conceded
just 12 to emphasise the benefits of their
fast-paced, limited kicking, approach.
But there remain two problems in the All
Blacks make up – an absence of match-
hardened understudies to the team stars
McCaw and flyhalf Dan Carter – and it’s here
that Henry concedes there is room for a
little rotation.
“I think it’s obvious we are going to have
to. I know people don’t like going down
there but we are going to have to give
guys opportunities to play.”
Aaron Cruden, Carter’s understudy this
year, has had only 60 minutes of Test
rugby after coming on as a replacement in
the closing minutes of five Tests.
But McCaw is in a class of his own as an
openside flanker and should he be injured
New Zealand has a dearth of number
sevens capable of emulating his role.
Grant Fox, the flyhalf who steered the All
Blacks to their only World Cup success in
1987, paid homage to the way the All
Blacks are playing in his weekly newspaper
column last Sunday.
It will be “painful” if the All Blacks don’t win
next year, he wrote, “but I have to say it’s
been a pretty good time to be an All Blacks
fan in the lead-up”.
7 Sep 2010, 14:58 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-410: I hear you, but I am just concerned about how much power the new coach will actually have…
Will he have a broom with carte blanche, or will he be subject to the demands of senior team members and / or SA Rugby?
I think the players have too much power and input at the moment.
7 Sep 2010, 14:58 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-414: the end of year tour will hopefully settle us a bit with guys being rested and a few new faces having a run, the news that some Boks will be available for the CC finals is a worry, i certainly hope that its not the over played ones.
7 Sep 2010, 14:58 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-397:
After winning a world cup most teams dont perform the year after, that is a fact. Look at England and Australia’s post WC track records after they won it. So a successful bok team who made improvements in 2009 doesn’t surprise me. ANd consider his (PDV) tactics in 2008… in 2009 the team moved back to more structured play (JW style of play) the players was accustomed to and i think Gary Gold had a lot to do with that turnaround.
I do agree that it’s Myers time, but he wouldn’t necessarily make himself available to take over now. Thats why I would rather have a coach who had world cup success than PDV trying out of desperation to turn things around. And with the added stress he just say more embarrassing things, that could do the team even more harm. And PDV will never resign..
7 Sep 2010, 15:02 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-414: “The question is not therefore whether we can play the type of rugby to beat the best in the world, the question is why this cannot be done more often and for longer periods.” – this is true, and runs counter to many arguments of current media fashion for a specialist “fetcher”.
It may be the cutting corners as you have mentioned which may be as a result of overfamiliarity of players for the coaches. None of the coaches is authoritarian and although mgt by consensus is a good thing, some lines may have been crossed.
PdV consistent negative press may also have contributed to a lack of due respect not so much by players but by his assistant coaches… It seems they are not answerable to him i.e. he did not hire them and can’t fire them…
7 Sep 2010, 15:02 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-414: for me it just looks like there is no direction, no common goal, everyone knows what they want the outcome to be but no planning has gone into how to do it.
7 Sep 2010, 15:03 pm
never ever seen a situation where the tail wags the dog so much as in bok rugby…ever !
Its insane….very obvious who is calling the shots….
and he aint 5 foot 4 !
7 Sep 2010, 15:05 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-404:
We all saw Pieter van Zyl with our own eyes.
We all saw the vomiting induced by Suzie, with our own eyes.
We all saw the gougers, Bakkies, Bismark and Burger, with our own eyes.
We all listened to the lies of Hansie.
We all hear the husky voice of Carsster……….and ask why do allow this poor person to suffer so.
And Percy…………..your Knight in shining armour. Just a common thug.
Sit on your high horse,Heavens Gate.
Ride tall in your saddle.
Look down your nose at us. It is your way.
7 Sep 2010, 15:06 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-409:
I absolutely agree with Tucker’s line. But this season was also accurately predicted by Dr. Noakes!
One of the things I liked about JW was his taking into account the warnings of Noakes about the guys. I imagine it helped a lot with our success in 2007.
On the other hand PdV says fatigue disappears as soon as you pull on the jersey. Seems a bit naive.
I really enjoyed the ‘new’ style of the Boks in 2009. It seemed to have the right balance between the traditions that made Bok rugby unique, as well as glimmers of a more instinctual style that is PdV’s main point of contribution.
Yet it seems as if PdV has taken his eye off the ball on too many occasions, that have been well documented by bloggers here. I am waiting for some little indication from PdV that he knows what he is doing, a few pointers that he is aware of what is wrong, and has an idea of how to fix it.
7 Sep 2010, 15:12 pm
@Jeez(Jeez)-419: the England team post 2003 did not have a peak in the 2nd year out of 2005 – they just slumped until 2007.
the aussies slumped post 1999 after the departure of Rod the magnificent, had a bedding in period with eddie jones and then came right relatively to make the 2003 final.
Both cases are different to the Boks. The boks did well in 2009 with key players who were not there in 2007 (3 players being M steyn, Beast and brussouw)
There success was not all down to jw or just to player power in 2009.
Look, PdV does have a negative press and it is now affecting the boks and the solution would be new broom sweeps clean. that new broom should not be jW – this will be like replacing a fire with an inferno…
7 Sep 2010, 15:12 pm
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-418:
It was a very bad 3N campaign, but people in general are overreacting.
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-420:
The responsibility ultimately lies with PDV, he needs to fix this mess, so by all means be pissed at him, I just think people are pissed at him for the wrong reasons.
I mean honestly, to appoint a guy as a coach on the fact that he handles the media well is employing a diplomat, not a bloody coach – it is the most daft reasoning I heard from the Keo journo’s in years.
I would rather have a rough and tumble take no **** guy as coach than a diplomat than sounds great when he explains away a loss in a press conference.
7 Sep 2010, 15:14 pm
@rugby911(rugby911)-424: in 2006 jake hadn’t applied any of what noakes had been talking about! Percy & Plod were played out of their skins by White, wh admitted at a presser that he didn’t have any replacements for them! When pushed on who he would pick if anything were to happen to Percy he mumbled something about Johan Roets and Willem de Waal being his preferred alternatives
7 Sep 2010, 15:14 pm
@rugby911(rugby911)-424:
They did take their eye off the ball, and it is time to refocus and get this mess sorted out.
7 Sep 2010, 15:15 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-423: Meel Bom toets lol
7 Sep 2010, 15:18 pm
1. New Zealand 94.29
2. Australia 86.04
3. South Africa 85.22
7 Sep 2010, 15:18 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-427:
Johan Roets!! bwahahahaha
7 Sep 2010, 15:19 pm
Jake sal nie teruggebring word nie, die besluitnemers sal nooit erken hulle het verkeerde besluite geneem nie en hulle sal uit beginsel ook nie luister na die rugby publiek se menings nie.
7 Sep 2010, 15:19 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-423: he only does that when his missus allows
7 Sep 2010, 15:19 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-423: no mention of richard loe.
Whats cronje got to do with rugby (btw Chris cairns is clean as a whistle, hey… wink.nudge.)
Percy is about as common a thug as the average rugger player from downtown auckland – we all know their rep for gentleness with wives and gfs.
none are the average nz rugby fan though…
your constant attempts at trying to be negative about all things saffer sport now are a case in point….
Or is this just more of Kiwi “revenge”? Was the 3N and 3-0 over the boks not enough…?
Typical and not surprising….
7 Sep 2010, 15:20 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-423: Know what else we all saw? We saw Collins pinching his weiner against his thigh as he pissed on the touch line. We saw grown men – rugby players – sporting eyeliner. We saw these same grown men wrecking taxis after a couple of full strength beers. We saw these same men drinking this same beer and suffering so badly the next day that they had to call it food poisoning to save some face. And then we saw these same men winning the Women’s world cup. These are the things we saw.
7 Sep 2010, 15:21 pm
I really don’t think the public should get carried with this ‘black’, ‘white’ thing. For a country that has moved forward for the last 15 years, I think this is counter productive.
With saying that, this is professional sport and situations like this have seen many lose their jobs for a lot less while at the same time many have kept their jobs due to the ‘structures that are in place for the future’.
We should be very careful of pulling the Jake White card when things are not going well. It’s very easy to glorify someone that achieved great kudos when really folkes, Jake White’s record – without winning the world cup – is well, quiet ordinary compared to DIV. We are also very quick to forget that JW won a World Cup without beating the All Blacks, in fact his record against them is so shocking that that would be reason enough not to take him to New Zealand. Div on the other-hand is the only South African coach to ever spend an unbeaten season in New Zealand. Yes, this has been a very poor Tri-Nations but importantly one has to recognize that this has been a very unlucky Tri-Nations too. From the massive injury list boasting No.1′s in the world for the missing positions to some very dubious refereeing.
It just seem folly to create such disruptions so close to the World Cup to a man that might not be my favourite coach but a man that is statistically a better coach than JW. DIV has achieved significant accolades just last year that seem too quickly forgotten. Jake White is the past, in-fact his record against all the strong rugby nations in the world is relatively poor. We have more than enough coaches in the wings that have been working week in week out and deserve the opportunity a lot more than he does. Hey, I don’t even know if he can adapt to all the new rule changes these days, never-mind win the world cup!
The fact remains, I think I have a good argument here that could span as far as even complimenting DIV for winning a Tri-Nations with South Africa’s most ‘racially transformed’ outfit.
Is this not where we wanted to be? granted winning every Tri-Nation competition off course would be great but not to digress here, DIV’s team is still racially the most representative Bok Team ever and the only one to have a record as impressive as it has. Give him a chance.
So much can be taken out of this years loss’s. I watched some scintillating rugby at times and a team that showed some real character during that memorable Bloemfontein test. I also saw something in the senior players faces that promised the fans that ‘never will we hurt like this again.’ I saw no indifference in the squad, in-fact there was an obviuos show of disappointment from both the coach and his teams faces.
At the end the day, well done Jake White, you will always be remembered for bringing joy to this country but I truly believe we are going through a very strengthening process that he has been a massive part of and is instrumental to the team we have today the the future we are trying to mould.
With saying that, DIV’s media skills do need to be worked on.
7 Sep 2010, 15:21 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-427: Really, OK well I seem to remember him referring to Noakes as one of the reasons he rested players in the 2007 Tri. Are you suggesting PdV will listen to Noakes now seeing the 2010 results?
.@PissAnt(PissAnt)-428: agreed, yet the gamble remains – by the end of the year it will be too late to fix things!
7 Sep 2010, 15:22 pm
nothing wrong with Roets …. PDV said he’d pick Earl, lobberts & eal tollie anyday for the boks
7 Sep 2010, 15:23 pm
Speculation and more speculation! This is not helped by Jake White chirping from the side. Pieter de Villiers is the coach and will be the SA coach at the RWC2011 in New Zealand. Just deal with it!
7 Sep 2010, 15:24 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-425: Still, it proves that a WC winning team slumps in the next year. 2008 bad tactics/style of play- coach’s decisions. 2009 some new players yes,but the core group of 2007 + going back to structured play. Structures that the settled players knew very well, which the new players could adapt to….
7 Sep 2010, 15:29 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-426: yeah, the one way he could really take the wind out of the sails is by stepping down and framing it in the context – “in light of all the external negativity… and for the Boks sake….etc”
appointing a bok coach on the way he handles the media is absolutely baseless…. also what bok coach has “positively handled” the media – jW (no), straueli (def no), viljoen (no), mallett (no), du plessis (?), christie (i think he told more than a few journos where to get off – but he was also protected by Luyt.
this is their attempt at a little coup. for the sake of bok rugby it must not go their way. no dismissal, instead pdV must resign. no JW – simple!
7 Sep 2010, 15:31 pm
@Jeez(Jeez)-440: It is not all due to JW… actually success in 2009 had nothing to do with jw. If you believe that then look under your bed for the tokoloshe or under your pillow for the tooth fairy.
7 Sep 2010, 15:32 pm
@katman(katman)-435: is it true they have killer bees in SA ?
7 Sep 2010, 15:33 pm
As much as I would like to see Jake White back in charge, it will never happen, to much has happened before.
Peter De Villiers must be fired no matter what, if we really want to win the World Cup next year, which we can do if the correct decisions made now.
I would make Heineke Meyer head coach with Rassie Erasmus forward coach and Alistair Coetzee backline coach.
Heineke knows most of the Bulls players and Ali has aready coached the Boks backline. Rassie has also been involved with Province and F.S. players and is technical very good.
Let’s hope something positive happens very soon.
7 Sep 2010, 15:33 pm
@katman(katman)-435: “And then we saw these same men winning the Women’s world cup”… fark LOL
7 Sep 2010, 15:36 pm
@rugby911(rugby911)-437:
I hope he doesn’t. Noakes is an ***!
7 Sep 2010, 15:37 pm
@katman(katman)-435: BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA………. NZ, where the men wear eyeliner and the women are built for rugby
7 Sep 2010, 15:39 pm
I have not read the other posts here (too many) but anybody who thinks Jake White should take over has very short memories.
I’ll give White credit for the 2007 WC but thats it. He has too many flaws (about just as many PdV, just not so many off the field).
Jake would take almost the exact same team except the “lighter” guys.
He has an obsession with big, heavy players. Remember, he has admitted he would never have played Brussouw last year, and he didn,t rate Morne Steyn at all. The 2 most crucial players to our success last year.
He failed to build any depth in his tenure. I think the only worthy subs he brought through was Wikus van Heerden and Francois Steyn.
He also played players into the ground.
And the WC, lets keep some perspective. He was lucky in many ways. There was no serious injuries. Even under Jake, if Matfield, Smit or du Preeze didn,t play, the team struggled.
He was lucky that the Aussies and All Blacks were **** (I know its not our or his fault). Face it, we had an easy WC (yes with a few scares).
Also, the only reason we were ranked no 1 after the WC, was because WC games counted more (I think double) to the ranking scores.
I am not defending PdV. But there is no point in replacing someone with someone else that’s just as bad.
7 Sep 2010, 15:40 pm
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-447: hehehe not bad for you old fella… not bad… those same eyeliner wearing men beat your clowns 3-0..
in fact your clowns won 1 from 6..
bwahahahahahaahahahahahaha
7 Sep 2010, 15:42 pm
EOYT
15. Lambie (but will probably be experience starting)
14. JP
13. JDJ
12. Steyn
11. mvovo (but will probably be experience starting)
10. jantjies (but will probably be experience starting)
09. hougaard
08. kanko / alberts
07. juan (C) / vermeulen
06. Flo
05. hargreaves
04. bakkies/flip
03. bj
02. bissie / chillie
01. beast
* (but will probably be experience starting)
expect 15 to be conrad jantjies, 11 to be basson, 10 to be butch.
Not my ideal team but the one that will be selected.
7 Sep 2010, 15:44 pm
@halfgk(halfgk)-448: Good post except for the WC apologetics.
the Boks won WC 2007 because they were good enough to win. the winners of a wc are the best team in the tournament – why? Because they beat all who they faced…
They did not lose in the Qf’s like other noisy pretenders.
and because the Boks won in 2007 they are WC winners / World champions till next year Oct. simple.
7 Sep 2010, 15:48 pm
@poppa69(poppa69)-449: was just commenting on his creative chirp son, dont wet your panties, boks were diabolical this year in direct and opposite proportion to how good the were last year, i can accept it like a man, should try it sometime.
7 Sep 2010, 15:50 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-451:
Correct and currently they are the third best side in the world and will probably go lower after the NH tour later in the year.
7 Sep 2010, 15:53 pm
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-452: just having a laugh mate… thought Saffas liked a laugh?
7 Sep 2010, 15:57 pm
PDIV IS THE MAN, LIKE IT OR NOT HE IS ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL SA COACHES TO DATE AND JW IS THE MOST OVERRATED IDIOT AROUND.
PLEASE PEOPLE DONT LET PERSONAL FEELINGS AND SKEWED PRE CONCEIVED PERCEPTIONS OF DIV INFLUENCE YOUR OPINION ABOUT HIM. HE WILL GO DOWN AS THE GREATEST BOK COACH EVER IF YOU ASK ME,AND THAT WILL ONLY BE BASED ON HIS RESULTS AND NOTHING ELSE.
THE GUY SAYS IT LIKE HE SEES IT, I SAY WE NEED MORE OF THOSE, BECAUSE COACHES AND JOURNOS ARE ALL THE MORE LIKE POLITICIANS COMING UP WITH POLITICALLY CORRECT DIPLOMACY. DIV IS REAL, HE IS FUNNY, HE IS ORIGINAL, HE IS REFRESHING, AND HE DOES NOT GIVE A S.H.I.T., SO THOSE WHO DOES NOT LIKE HIM, SORRY GUYS, YOU WILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT…
JW IS HISTORY, PDV IS THE FUTURE AND THE FURURE IS OURS, JUST EMBRACE IT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, THIS GUYS IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE, AND JW MUST GO AND FOCUS ON WHAT EVER HE IS BUSY WITH NOW AND SHUT THE HELL UP. PDIV IS HERE TO STAY…. SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS.. IN A HURRY…
7 Sep 2010, 15:58 pm
@poppa69(poppa69)-454: you’re always spitting at the monitor mate, so i just assume its your default mood and answer accordingly.
and just so you know, the “women built for rugby” chirp? i first heard from a Kiwi rugby exchange student, over a few drinks at a pub he told me he loves SA because all the women in NZ were built for rugby. he was a good bloke, suppose he’s the exception that proves the rule?
7 Sep 2010, 16:00 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-453: and aren’t you pleased…
that does not consequently mean that the abs will win the 2011 WC…
if there is any safe assumption in rugby, its that the abs will not win the WC next year…
over 20 years of history says that…
if the abs meet the wobblies, france or the Boks in the knockout phases they will lose… too much pressure… sorry for you! I truly am…
7 Sep 2010, 16:00 pm
@malema vs verwoerd(malema vs verwoerd)-455:
Don’t be sorry that’s the best news I’ve heard all day.
7 Sep 2010, 16:04 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-457: i make the bet every year before the RWC for a case of beers, with anyone stupid enough to take it that is, that the AB’s wont win the RWC, 2006 i went as far as saying they wouldn’t make the final…..
now who wants to make the bet?
7 Sep 2010, 16:06 pm
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-459: Not me. i neither a kiwi or stoopid (pretty much the same thing sometimes)….
7 Sep 2010, 16:06 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-457:
We shall see, pretty happy where we are at right now though.
7 Sep 2010, 16:06 pm
massive front page headlines in The Argus….’ ANC Knives out for Div ‘…
7 Sep 2010, 16:08 pm
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-459:
I make the same bet with SA getting the wooden in the 3 nations, clearly I’ve made a fortune.
7 Sep 2010, 16:08 pm
@grant10(grant10)-462: their little coup will not result in jake the snake returning – rather have H.meyer anyday – an honourable in comparison.
7 Sep 2010, 16:09 pm
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-456: yep hes the exception, like an honest SA official.
rare creatures
so if I brought you a beer you wouldnt have it?
7 Sep 2010, 16:10 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-461: like you always are a year out from a WC… and then when the playing fields are level… allfalldown like the proverbial sandcastle…
7 Sep 2010, 16:11 pm
As PA said in an earlier post, the Boks have played some inspired rugby at times. I can think of the phases leading to our first penalty last week. As to the question of our leaky defence, especially against open play, I remember Ewan McKenzie explaining at the beginning of the Reds season, that they’d previously concentrated on attack but they hadn’t learnt how to attack but still maintain a defensive structure. I feel that this is an area the Boks are also failing in. Under Jake, the whole emphasis was using an attacking defence whilst PdeV has switched the emphasis to attack. The current confused mixture that we’ve seen is, I believe more attributable to the senior (Jakes) players being unable to break old habits and instincts than just to incompetent coaching.
In other words, the problem is trying to teach old dogs new tricks, IMO.
7 Sep 2010, 16:14 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-466:
We are good all the time.
7 Sep 2010, 16:16 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-468:2011 RWC – Third place playoff is going to be ‘cracker’ – wobblies vs NZ. I will be there to watch it!!
7 Sep 2010, 16:20 pm
@poppa69(poppa69)-465: nah, im a Scotsman, we never say no to free booze
7 Sep 2010, 16:20 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-468: except at WC’s… dream on little sheepshagger, let the hobbits keep singing you lullabyes…
btw – the abs were definitely the best last year?
7 Sep 2010, 16:21 pm
so many psychics on this blog..
2011 is 2011.. lets wait till it gets here first..
currently its 2010, and SA are lucky Argentina didnt play in this years tourney, 2 from 9 would not have looked good..
7 Sep 2010, 16:21 pm
@Zandberg Jansen(Zandberg Jansen)-469:
We shall see, you seem confident and thats great after the spanking you just received.
7 Sep 2010, 16:23 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-473: We can have beer after the match!
7 Sep 2010, 16:23 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-471:
Yes by the end of the year we were or have you forgotten you lost to two clubs sides Ireland and France?
7 Sep 2010, 16:24 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-473: It is a site where the Boks are supported…
try think about it…
7 Sep 2010, 16:25 pm
At the end of the day……. Darryn……. the powers that be (SARU, ANC, Sports portfolio committee etc etc) will not replace the first politically appointed Bok coach, this would be admitting the errors of their ways, AND if he does fail at the RWC? im betting apartheid will be blamed….. who wants to take the bet on that??
7 Sep 2010, 16:27 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-476:
Why do you call people from NZ sheepshaggers?
7 Sep 2010, 16:35 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-475:kiwi chicks have more balls at world cups than their male counterparts.i understand kiwi women are mentally stronger than kiwi men when it comes to tight pressure situations in life….explains your responses on here at times!
7 Sep 2010, 16:36 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-475: and then that unfortunate ab loss to the baabaas (with a few of those “useless” boks in the side…)
the way you carrying on it would seem as if your abs lost 4-0 again this year…
if your attempted barbs are some sort of perverse attempt at “revenge” or some silly message about a kiwis version of giving respect… it aint working….
To true bok supporters the boks are second to none!
When the Boks want to be – they are the best. full stop.
Support your no1 side (world champs 87) and boks supporters will support their boks, current world champs, 2007 and 95 WC winners – ranked 3rd at present temporarily, but have the beating of any side in world rugby….
Bok supporters may respect the abs from time to time – but then again they don’t have to.
Why do they? fark knows… out of some misty eyed reminisicing for past thunderous tests on a level playing field… that has changed – the abs and ozzies are rivals… the Boks have none… simple
7 Sep 2010, 16:36 pm
@malema vs verwoerd(malema vs verwoerd)-455:
You’ve been @ the firewater again…..neh!!!
7 Sep 2010, 16:39 pm
Jake was overrated and the Bokke was anything but exciting under his reign as he obviously stuck to the Clive Woodward biography!
If not for Eddie Jones, 2007 would not have been a WC success for SA
7 Sep 2010, 16:41 pm
It seems this is the overwhelming view:
Should Jake White be appointed Bok caretaker coach until the end of the 2011 World Cup?
No 1606 75% of all votes
Yes 537 25% of all votes
Total Votes: 2143
Get with the program Simon!
7 Sep 2010, 16:43 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-478:
Isn’t it the most widely played sport over there?
7 Sep 2010, 16:45 pm
@Slartibartfart(Slartifartfast)-484: eish!
7 Sep 2010, 16:49 pm
@scar(scar)-483: 537 votes for jake only!!!that will come as a shock for mark keohane and his cronies.
7 Sep 2010, 16:50 pm
scar – This could be the time for SARU to appoint a director of rugby for which White is perfect for!
7 Sep 2010, 16:53 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-478:i guess the sheep had no stress-related issues during the quake because nothing can be more stressful for them than being shagged by kiwi males….especially after world cup tournaments!
7 Sep 2010, 16:57 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-464: no arguments from me on that one
7 Sep 2010, 16:58 pm
Time for Jake to take over!
7 Sep 2010, 17:00 pm
Meyer would be better than JW
7 Sep 2010, 17:01 pm
@JohnX(John_Psycho)-490:
Time for PDiv to go…and time for Jake to stay retired!
7 Sep 2010, 17:02 pm
@Slartibartfart(Slartifartfast)-492:
Time for Jake to stay retired/fired!!
7 Sep 2010, 17:03 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-480: Obviously Boks have wanted be the best a few times in recent 20 or so years.
Namely 1995, 98, mid-04, late-07 and mid-09.
7 Sep 2010, 17:04 pm
Just heard that Chester is in talks with SARU…
7 Sep 2010, 17:05 pm
@Zandberg Jansen(Zandberg Jansen)-469: It would be nice to see your team emerging from the pool for a start.
7 Sep 2010, 17:05 pm
When De Villiers took over in January 2008 the Boks were ranked No 1, with 90.81 points.
Currently = No 3, with 85.22
How is De Villiers possibly the future?
7 Sep 2010, 17:09 pm
@katman(katman)-495:
Uh-oh…
7 Sep 2010, 17:09 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-487:
I’d prefer Heyneke.
7 Sep 2010, 17:13 pm
@Slartibartfart(Slartifartfast)-498: Just kidding, of course.
7 Sep 2010, 17:14 pm
@katman(katman)-495: about
what?
7 Sep 2010, 17:15 pm
so where can i join the queue to sign this off, i think the fans and supporters deserve input into this matter
7 Sep 2010, 17:19 pm
Chester, lol, he’s spur adverts were worthy of oscar nominations
7 Sep 2010, 17:19 pm
@foreverrugga(foreverrugga)-501: About Chester becoming coach.
7 Sep 2010, 17:19 pm
No, actually I was dead serious.
7 Sep 2010, 17:19 pm
Nah, just kidding.
7 Sep 2010, 17:20 pm
No seriously, I heard he is.
7 Sep 2010, 17:20 pm
@katman(katman)-504: ha ha ha …you can’t be serious man?
7 Sep 2010, 17:20 pm
Not.
7 Sep 2010, 17:20 pm
Trust me, it’s Chester.
7 Sep 2010, 17:20 pm
@Slartibartfart(Slartifartfast)-493:
Personally I want Jake to take over temporarily til the end of the World Cup, its not like he’s asking for a full term & it would make sense as he has won the world cup before & knows what it takes.
7 Sep 2010, 17:21 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-366: who the f.uck remembers the Tri-Nations results in 2003??, but we all know who won Bill
7 Sep 2010, 17:22 pm
@katman(katman)-510: that’s a joke
7 Sep 2010, 17:24 pm
@foreverrugga(foreverrugga)-513: Correct. He’s a joke.
7 Sep 2010, 17:24 pm
Or did you mean his appointment is a joke?
7 Sep 2010, 17:25 pm
Because it’s not.
7 Sep 2010, 17:25 pm
Of course it is.
7 Sep 2010, 17:25 pm
I don’t know any more.
7 Sep 2010, 17:26 pm
Actually old jake White has become such a scale, first offering to coach England and now trying to usurp by his so-called ambulance job.
I think he better go find god again cos he don’t have any Christian values. Amen
7 Sep 2010, 17:28 pm
@cab(cab)-519: I’ve got an idea, but I doubt they’d go with it:
Offer Jake the (interim) job, but at no pay. Just a daily stipend. It’s an honour thing. Maybe include a once off bonus for making the semis or finals, or winning the thing. But no salary.
7 Sep 2010, 17:29 pm
@cab(cab)-519: Could not disagree more. He has the Boks best interests at heart. That is good enough for me.
So does PdV by the way, but that is another discussion.
7 Sep 2010, 17:30 pm
@katman(katman)-515: the fact that he has allegedly approached SARU for coaching job is a joke!
7 Sep 2010, 17:31 pm
Duh. This requires no debate. You don’t have to be a JW/EJ fan to see this is the best option available.
JW is structured and thoughful. He will analyse the problems, put together a plan and implement it. He and Eddie have infinitely more world cup experience than any alternative and they would immediately address the top ten issues that need attention. Crazy not to do it.
Whether or not that plan will work is up for discussion, but we do know that whilst the plan needs to be good it does not need to be perfect. We have player resources that compensate for a certain amount of coaching and management imperfection.
Right now we have arbitrary and random behaviour with no explanation of intent, no coherent analysis of obvious failure, and no accountability for evident disintegration. I recall that upon his appointment PDV asked to be measured by his performance – what a good idea that would be.
Hoskins is unpredictable. Sometimes he does things that are smart, wise and ballsy; sometimes he does things that are breathtakingly naïve (eg when he said that PdV is a non-merit appointment). So I do not have much confidence that he will do The Right Thing.
Bottom line: Appointing Jake is a no-brainer decision. You will improve our chances, improve morale/hope, establish accountability, improve transparency, and cover your downside. Hoskins and co. should do it and do it immediately.
Of course that would require management competence. And guts.
7 Sep 2010, 17:31 pm
@foreverrugga(foreverrugga)-522: No, that was really a joke. My joke. (he didn’t)
7 Sep 2010, 17:31 pm
White says he is prepared to do an ambulance job.
How noble of him, blessed be, can’t believe I supported this twat, what a dissapointment.
If he gets the job I will support Fiji.
7 Sep 2010, 17:35 pm
@katman(katman)-524: ha ha…I was just thinking wtf man
7 Sep 2010, 17:35 pm
see superrugby.
In a teleconference the cheetahs and sharks moaned about Boks coming back, SAYING IT WOULD FAVOR bULLS………so a blanket ban on all….
i AM JUST GLAD WP DIDNT WHINGE.
7 Sep 2010, 17:37 pm
@funkyzoo(funkyzoo)-523: appointing Heyneke Mayer would be a no brainer
7 Sep 2010, 17:38 pm
@cab(cab)-525: Why?
7 Sep 2010, 17:38 pm
If he really cared he would ask pdv if he could help out, but he has not done that.
7 Sep 2010, 17:38 pm
@cab(cab)-525:
He seems to be more of an ambulance chaser.
7 Sep 2010, 17:38 pm
@grant10(grant10)-527:
lol
bulls beat tjorks at near enough full strengh with a bunch of lighties
real question at the minute is why Mpoe is not honouring his contract at the cheetahs after having being ordered to?
where are the laws that protect the employer?
7 Sep 2010, 17:39 pm
@cab(cab)-525:
and twakkie needs to climb into an ambulance and get his head checked.
7 Sep 2010, 17:41 pm
@cab(cab)-530:
that would be a waste of time as DeVilliers doesn’t see what the problem is.
7 Sep 2010, 17:41 pm
I RECKON THE TELEPHONE LINES HAVE BEEN RED HOT TODAY…..
7 Sep 2010, 17:44 pm
jUST HEARD ac ON RADIO…..
i RECKON THERES THINGS BREWING
Sorry caps
7 Sep 2010, 17:44 pm
PIV has been no worse than Jake the snake. So cry me river,
and let’s be honest.
1. Jake was only successful when he brought Eddie on board.
2. He had a very lucky draw to win the World Cup. I know it wasn’t any bodies fault, but the fact remains that we were not properly tested at that tournament. So for JW to claim success solely on that result., is not a true reflection. Rather look at his results up to that point, which was decidedly average.
3. He had some dismal losses in tenure. I would say a lot more dismal than PV has had. Who can forget that Australia drubbing
4. We have all seen how successful “Losing Ways” has been at the lions this past Super 14.
5. Is he and Keo going to write us book about how he hid in the bushes and coached the team during the Lions tour.
6. And I can’t wait for him to give us the whole spiel of why we don’t need a fetcher. Poor Heinrich Brussouw would never have been given the chance to play under JW.
So either let us support PDV (like we had to with Jake), make sure he has the best support coaches in place, and hope he gets lucky in the World Cup alla Jake.
Or if we really need a care taker coach, let’s bring in a proper coach like Heineke Meyer or Eddie. Jake can rather fetch them some beers.
And Keo and kie, really can you not come up with anything better than to write these continuous tirades against PDV. PDV thus, PDVB that, and on and on we go. So freaking typical. Started the day after PDV got appointed, was temporarily silenced during last year’s tri-nations, and now we are on 2 articles a day.
7 Sep 2010, 17:46 pm
@cab(cab)-525:
Emotions are important, but when it comes to senior appointments you always start with track record. In that dimension there is no comparison to JW, especially with Eddie at his side.
Any other decision, including a decision to back PdV is a roll of the dice.
Jake is edgy, provocative, opinionated, self-promoting, and tactically conservative. And he is not especially cuddly. But if we care about results then the decision makes itself.
If, on the other hand, we’re OK with an RWC campaign that feels like this 3N campaign then let’s just keep on trucking. Who knows – we might just get 7 lucky days in a row and win the title.
7 Sep 2010, 17:47 pm
An ambulance job. Mein godt I think a few ambulances are needed allround, ppl are mad.
7 Sep 2010, 17:50 pm
@grant10(grant10)-535: why aren’t SARU refuting Jake’s media bluster of the past 2 days?
7 Sep 2010, 17:52 pm
@Nils(Nils)-494: they are second to none all of the time… funny that no 1 side couldn’t win when it counted in 95 and 2007 when the boks were world champs…
ahh but they couldn’t win in 03, 99, 91 too… maybe this no 1. “ranking” flatters them. maybe the abs aren’t as good as they an their trumpeters think they are.
We learn that every 4 years with a level playing field…
7 Sep 2010, 17:53 pm
@cab(cab)-530: Think he (JW) is too wise to let that happen, would be chaos. There cannot be leadership by committee. The Boks need leadership, one leader. I am still hoping PdV will step up and show the way forward. But it would never work, the two of them at the helm, IMHO.
7 Sep 2010, 17:54 pm
Ja funky, but there’s also common decency and he used to cry like a baby when the press and old frik du preez thought he was kak, he moaned about fans versus supporters, and now this schnaaier is doing exactly the same to a man who has done nothing to him.
No, I’m not going to support thus nonsense, we want to win, but not at this cost, I got no time fir this rubbish any more. I hope PdV lifts a leg and pisses all over the big dogs. Later, I’m out.
7 Sep 2010, 17:55 pm
@foreverrugga(foreverrugga)-528:
HM = Great coach. Really great coach. I favoured him for the job in the first place. And I expect he would do a great job of RWC 2015.
But we need EXPERIENCE off the bench at this stage of the game. We can’t afford to have someone learning the ropes with a year to go. Test rugby is a different challenge and RWC is a further learning experience. HM has neither – in fact there are very few options that do.
JW is imperfect but he would radically and rapidly reduce our risks. Experience is what we need. We have it in JW and EJ. Hire them and manage them. And then put in place the best candidate (eg HM) for the next campaign.
7 Sep 2010, 18:00 pm
@cab(cab)-543: Agree it is Machiavellian to a certain extent, but not as much as you seem to think. What if he is just being honest here? Is that not one possibility? He is calling like he sees it, he is willing to help, on his terms. No problem with me on that.
7 Sep 2010, 18:05 pm
@rugby911(rugby911)-545: By the way I always enjoyed how you stuck up for PdV the wee maestro, and it must hurt that a few of his short comings have become pretty obvious. It is horrible, and correctly argued that JW had similar problems. But is there enough evidence to convince you pdV can mount a successful campaign, or does the idea that JW coach give more confidence?
7 Sep 2010, 18:07 pm
Rugby911
if he wants to help, then he should do so anonomously without usurping the current coach who has shown great loyalty to his players despite many fans calling fir their heads. At one stage about 10% of the rugby public wanted john smit, pdv not only has stuck with him but bought him back from France with special package along with matfield
7 Sep 2010, 18:08 pm
@rugby911(rugby911)-545:
If he was being honest, he would offer assistance to PdeV, not suggest he replace him.
7 Sep 2010, 18:09 pm
Simon and JC. Is either one of you capable of original thought? Or do we just have to resign ourselves to reading “article” after “article” consisting of nothing but a recitation of Keo’s opinions?
7 Sep 2010, 18:12 pm
@Jake Snake(leeman)-537:
Luck favours the prepared mind.
Jake did get the bounce of the ball at RWC2007. But that is not the whole story, by a lot.
- he put together an excellent squad over a period of four years (long before EJ was inthe picture), including some great calls on young guys, on Os and Percy
- he built a formidable defensive unit (long before Eddie was in the picture)
- he built excellent set pieces (long before EJ was i nthe picture)
- he had the guys at peak fitness, health and conditioning
- he attended to a lot of important details (eg situational awareness training, peripheral vision training etc)
- he had the nouse to get EJ into the system when he had the chance
Some say that EJ was a lucky, last minute thing that saved JW’s backside; others would say that Jake had always planned on building the attacking game at that stage of the team development, and would have done so with or without EJ. It doesn’t matter anyway, given that EJ is available now.
Only an idiot would suggest that the 2007 Boks were a lesser team than the 2003 Boks. They were in a different league (as illustrated by the IRB rankings going from 6 to 1). They were the only team to beat NZ in a period of about 3 years, a team that beat England about 7 times in succession, and a team that innovated in every area (eg the blitz defence). To call that luck is hardly doing justice to the work that was done.
I don’t believe that JW is the best coach in the world, much less a pleasant chap, but I am not prepared to deny his achievements or diminish the importance of his experience.
As a cold, hard, business decision the most rational course is to engage him in discussions and see what it would take for him to lead this campaign. If his demands and expectations cannot be met the so be it, but if it is possible to put him in place then it should be done.
Yesterday would be a good start date.
7 Sep 2010, 18:23 pm
Jake, we’re on a collision with Ireland (a side you have not beaten away from home) Australia (49-0) New Zealand (a side you have not beaten in New Zealand) Give it up Whitey, go coach pre-school rugga!
7 Sep 2010, 18:44 pm
@cab(cab)-547:
Support for a coach eventually reaches breaking point. That’s the way of the world. I respect that different people have a different tolerance for failure before they call it, but we are surely down to diehard supporters when it comes to PdV.
Losing to NZ is the first 3N match was painful, particularly the humiliating nature if the defeat, but most people said “Ouch” while waiting for our guys to turn it around.
Roll on game 2. Double “Ouch”. We hear that referees are the problem etc etc. Patient Bok fans take it on the chin, confident that we have the player and coaching resources, and pride, to come back hard.
Game 3: Oops. No coherent explanation from the coach. Just failure and finger pointing. Many Bok fans legitimately call for heads to roll. But some of us feel that three home games are there for the taking, and 50% in the 3N is not bad.
Games 4-6: Total disaster. One ugly, unconvincing win. More “who cares” from the coaches. More insulting blabber from the head coach. No explanations, no discussion of remediation plans. Nothing.
Along the way we get senior players over-played by a lot, bizarre handling of F Steyn, James and others, players out of position, Enrico and Wynand unfairly expected to perform at test level, insufficient blooding of the next generation, and so on. We get tackle stats that are absolutely shocking, 10 points scored against us in 7 minutes by 14 men when we should be closing out the match, overall defensive statistics that are utterly cringeworthy, very little evidence of controlling the game, etc. In short we have to take everything on faith despite the fact that results are as bad as we can remember.
And at this point you still want people to be loyal to the coach? As above I do respect that different people have different breaking points, but IMV anyone that is still a PdV supporter is well beyond the limits of rational judgement. I feel I have been loyal for far too long already.
Coaches should be accountable. That means if they fail they lose their jobs. That means PdV should be out, barring some very exceptional circumstances. Independent of any Jake White debate PdV should go. He has tried and failed. Good bye and good luck.
It’s a management truism that when you fire someone you always wish you had done it earlier.
The remaining question is whether JW’s offer should be pursued. Maybe there is a better alternative, but I don’t see it.
7 Sep 2010, 18:57 pm
@funkyzoo(funkyzoo)-552: Very long post, but 1 question. Why was it unfair for people to expect WO to perform?
7 Sep 2010, 18:57 pm
@funkyzoo(funkyzoo)-552: Seems a very sound appraisal.
7 Sep 2010, 18:57 pm
@The Dude(RaynoG)-551:
The lowlights of JW’s tenure were not very pretty. Experimental year end tours were disappointing (esp Ireland), the 2006 Brisbane match was jaw-dropping, and it is true that he didn’t get to the point of beating NZ in NZ (though he did beat NZ out of NZ, something no other team was doing at the time).
But in a rebuilding stage a coach gets measured as much by improvement as by absolute results. JW’s legacy is an immeasurably improved team, setup, systems, and ultimately results too. He undoubtedly did a great job of building something vastly better than what he inherited – it takes a clown to deny that.
The point is that we have to fire the current coach anyway, and a solution is needed. You pick someone with a track record in a situation like this.
7 Sep 2010, 18:59 pm
1 question.
If PDV is expected to fall on his sword.
What about his captain?
7 Sep 2010, 19:01 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-553:
I meant to indicate that they are both GREAT S14 and CC players that kept getting picked at test level, an arena in which they are far from consistently good performers. They were stepping up and trying hard but were always going to disappoint and be disappointed. That’s not fair on them.
7 Sep 2010, 19:02 pm
@grant10(grant10)-556:
“What about his captain?”
Decision for the new coach.
7 Sep 2010, 19:03 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-540: ‘SARU communications manager Andy Colquhoun says “there could be half a dozen coaches wanting to take over from Peter, that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen” and “we are not going to speculate.”‘
7 Sep 2010, 19:05 pm
@funkyzoo(funkyzoo)-557: Cool…
7 Sep 2010, 19:07 pm
e tv news.
Stofile has knife out…..no doubt there is big kak coming
7 Sep 2010, 19:11 pm
@funkyzoo(funkyzoo)-558:
it just constantly amazes me that plod is required for his great aura and leadership…..without him boks are doomed…..but we get slaughtered weekly anyway!!
Then when it comes to ‘fall guys’ plod is immune from criticism or responsibility.
All those that say the seniors run the team are now lining up to flog pdv…and plod? Again nowhere to be seen….bullet proof
7 Sep 2010, 19:11 pm
@grant10(grant10)-561: I know you want PDV out, but, beware of politicians especially a guy that couldnt be found during the Soccer World Cup
7 Sep 2010, 19:12 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-559:
Straight out of the PR textbook.
It’s significant that they did not say that it won’t happen. In PR if you can shut down rumours with a definitive negative then you do so.
That doesn’t mean it’s a high probability, but it does mean they are leaving open the possibility, if only for purposes of due process.
7 Sep 2010, 19:14 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-563: i believe pdv sold out to the fat boys club…..i believe pdv and the 2 stooges cannot win a wc in 2011 for us.
i believe plod should retire as he is….imo…a huge part of the problem.
I also believe that white should go train Namibia….leave boks alone.
7 Sep 2010, 19:16 pm
@funkyzoo(funkyzoo)-564: true, but I thought the ‘doesn’t mean it’s going to happen’ was telling, if the door was open for Jake I don’t think he’d have said that. We’ll see though, I think they’ll back PDV as per normal when he gets hauled up in front of them.
7 Sep 2010, 19:17 pm
@grant10(grant10)-562:
No-one is accountable, apparently. JS should absolutely lose his captaincy and selection privileges, and be made to fight for them back. Coaches decision, but that is what I would do.
If it were up to me I would pick a next generation player as captain for the year end tours, and see how they go.
Maybe the old lady can still dance, but right now she doesn’t look very pretty.
7 Sep 2010, 19:19 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-566: you may have changed your mind if you were watching the news here 008.
Seriously, i reckon pdv being lined up. That Sports Minister was scathing.
If i was pdv i would walk after that attack……..
7 Sep 2010, 19:21 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-566:
Absolutely. And I suspect that he will keep his job substantially because JS, VM and co support him.
Heroic failure at the RWC is on the cards.
7 Sep 2010, 19:21 pm
@funkyzoo(funkyzoo)-567:
i feel the same.
New coach [ not the snake]
No guarantees for wc ….
only select wc 30 at latest possible time.
Its all the guarantees that have created the culture of entitlement and complacency
7 Sep 2010, 19:22 pm
@grant10(grant10)-568:
Well that’s good news. Excellent!
7 Sep 2010, 19:22 pm
@grant10(grant10)-568:
Let’s hope he does.Being set up or not he is useless.
7 Sep 2010, 19:22 pm
@grant10(grant10)-568: interesting. But Jake? I dunno, I think for all his fauts PDV is a good man, there would be no luck in replacing him with a character like White.
7 Sep 2010, 19:22 pm
@grant10(grant10)-570: with you 100%
7 Sep 2010, 19:23 pm
@grant10(grant10)-565: See Grant, a lot of black people including the ANC backed PDV because he was black but some of us backed him because he was capable and had a vision that was/is necessary.
To suggest he didnt sell out, would be a lie, in fact, not only did he sell out, he actually betrayed himself in the process, the question that one needs ask is, was the betrayal of bothy himself and those that supported him caused by a need to stay on the job longer?, if yes, staying longer for personal finacial gain or advancement of his rugby vision?.
I’m inclined to believe he cant point to the later.
7 Sep 2010, 19:29 pm
So is PDV fired or not ? Just heard he his , whats the truth ?
7 Sep 2010, 19:31 pm
@Pam Anderson’s left ( . )(Pam Anderson)-572: It would be nice for you as a new poster to please give us a snippet of your general rugby acumen before spewing forth your bile, maybe you are just one of those nic-thieves from RT
Use it, dont use it
7 Sep 2010, 19:38 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-573:
Usually agree with you but can’t agree on JW. Inexperienced test coaches are extremely high risk in the short term (cf. Johnson), but may be good long term prospects.
SA can turn to JW/EJ, Coetzee, or Mallett (if they could get him released). Otherwise you’re just swinging blind.
England performed above their level in the 2007 RWC and the Lions performed above their level in 2009 because they had experienced coaches with good track records. That is the way to go.
Additionally the changes in the game and increases in referee dependencies require technical and tactical smarts. A people-oriented or admin-oriented coach would be less valuable than one that can debug how NZ/Oz are running through us and can fix it. That job spec is tailor made for JW.
Lastly, his point about knowing the players is Very Significant. A new coach would take some time to get to know the players and combinations, detailed strengths and weaknesses etc. Further his relationships with the players, whether good or bad on an individual basis, provide a foundation of trust. And that allows him to manage the group vastly more effectively than a newbie would.
I do think he’s making a mistake drawing Cooetzee’s name in as the potential next coach. He can’t expect that they would appoint him with that as an implied expectation. They need to have the freedom to pick the next coach in 2011 and not lock it in now, nor invite a JW lobbying campaign over the next year.
7 Sep 2010, 19:41 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-577:
Not new sunshine – just scarce.
If I was a nicstealer I certainly won’t be daft enough to use the same nic on RT.
Spewing bile? That’s a laugh considering the shite that you, G10 and others spew about some players.
PdV certainly won’t be the 1st coach to get the axe….Thanks for coming, don’t let door hit you on the arse on the way out.
7 Sep 2010, 19:45 pm
@funkyzoo(funkyzoo)-578: It’s not really his coaching I question FZ, I think the Jake and Eddie partnership was/is a good one. I just think it’s all a little machiavellian and what goes around does tend to come around.
7 Sep 2010, 19:45 pm
The problem is that no coach who is worth their salt and has ambitions to coach the side in the future is going to want this job.
Which means you are scraping a rather ****** barrel.
No let divvy see it through. After all jake was allowed to during his annus horriblis in 2006.
With the right player management and judicious use of outside experts like Sheryl Caulder and defence and conditioning gurus it could all still cone together quite nicely.
At this level if you are 10% off your game it gets ugly real quickly.
It’s up to divvy to find that 10%..
7 Sep 2010, 19:45 pm
@Pam Anderson’s left ( . )(Pam Anderson)-579:
Haha!!! That’s very restrained of you Pam, I’d have told him to go and f.ck himself.
7 Sep 2010, 19:48 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-582:
lol..I am a lady after all
7 Sep 2010, 19:51 pm
@Pam Anderson’s left ( . )(Pam Anderson)-583:
No you’re not, I’ve seen your wedding video
7 Sep 2010, 19:54 pm
I’ve seen her wedding video as well.
She’s definitely a lady.
7 Sep 2010, 19:55 pm
@gunther(gunther)-585: Just from the video?, sure?…
7 Sep 2010, 19:58 pm
Xhosa nostra..
I’d bet my nut on it…
You must be thinking about Patrick Anderson.
7 Sep 2010, 20:03 pm
@gunther(gunther)-587: Guess, I should call her “Babe”,
7 Sep 2010, 20:06 pm
Xhosa kid..
She is delicious with BBQ sauce.
7 Sep 2010, 20:06 pm
i have a feeling PDV is going to resign.
7 Sep 2010, 20:08 pm
@grant10(grant10)-590: dont hold your breath Grant, you might just pass out….
7 Sep 2010, 20:09 pm
Relax grantie it’s just pmt…
Be happy.
At least you aren’t pregnant.
7 Sep 2010, 20:10 pm
@grant10(grant10)-590:
I never saw e news. What happened?
7 Sep 2010, 20:12 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-591: @gunther(gunther)-592:
If i was pdv at home watching Stofile nail me on the 7 pm news…..
Fark that…i will phn Hoskins and say lets do an exit deal.
Compounded by the polls that show 70 to 80 % of people calling for my head…..i would walk away….the game just not worth it .
7 Sep 2010, 20:12 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-593: stofile was rather scathing!
7 Sep 2010, 20:13 pm
read front page of Argus tonight….
Long knives of ANC out for pdv….fark me gents….its serious sh it man….
7 Sep 2010, 20:15 pm
Grantie
The ANC love to kick a man when he’s down…
This is divvies shot.
A coaching job at boland awaits.
He won’t walk away.
7 Sep 2010, 20:15 pm
if white gets appointed i am well and truly in my moer….
all over rover
goodnite nurse
along with steggmann and brussow.
7 Sep 2010, 20:17 pm
@gunther(gunther)-597: not so sure G…
The okes body langusge has been revealing….i am not sure if he can cope with all this outide pressure….i wouldnt handle personally either.
7 Sep 2010, 20:17 pm
Grantie
You have been in your moer for over two years now.
It’s your status quo.
7 Sep 2010, 20:17 pm
@grant10(grant10)-595:
@grant10(grant10)-596:
Hmmm, interesting. I’ll go and have a look at iol website see if it’s up there. Thanks…
7 Sep 2010, 20:19 pm
@gunther(gunther)-600: ja
this is true….
but i am a moer of a battler…..
just when you think i am in my moer i get a 2 nd wind….
7 Sep 2010, 20:21 pm
just a question…..how can saru just appoint white if pdv walks?
Is there not due process? Like advertising or something?
7 Sep 2010, 20:26 pm
@grant10(grant10)-603:
If they do get rid of PdV, I just can’t imagine them appointing JW. That would be a giant step backwards.
But if they do appoint JW, I wouldn’t assume he would employ the same tactics he did 3 years ago, especially with regards to a fetcher.
Aaaaannndddd, didn’t JW say that Smit should’ve retired in 2007? P wouldn’t assume he’d be JW’s captain…
7 Sep 2010, 20:28 pm
Cheers, fellas, I’m being accused of be anti social…
7 Sep 2010, 20:30 pm
@JockBok(JockBok)-604: ja….he also said he may be inclined to make lw his captain….now that would make this blog ungovernable….fark me!
Old jake is a leopard….those spots wont change i reckon.
It will be jake and the fat boys club doing a duet all the way to kiwiland in 2011…..
No mate….advertise the post….must be someone else ….
Although, deep down in my heart, i reckon a deal has been made…..the next couple of weeks will reveal all.
7 Sep 2010, 20:31 pm
Never gonna happen, although I’d support just because it would sorely p1ss off that skpskiet twat no end.
7 Sep 2010, 20:31 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-605: cheers my good man
7 Sep 2010, 20:32 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-605:
Fair point. Time for tonights episode of Australian Masterchef I think, gotta love those pvr’s….
7 Sep 2010, 20:33 pm
till later
outta here
7 Sep 2010, 20:39 pm
@gunther(gunther)-581:
“With the right player management …”
If you haven’t got those things today then you have a coach problem. This is the case for the Boks.
Get a good coach and you’ll get the player management, tactical smarts etc. Then, as you say, you’ve got a good shot at the RWC title.
But it makes no sense to look for those things from a coach that has been so obviously failing at this level.
On the topic of people wanting the job, good people seek accountability (including the threat of losing their jobs for poor performance). It is weak employees that lack belief in themselves and are scared by organisations that take action on non-performers.
It is just plain good leadership to ask someone with PdV’s failure record to tender their resignation. It’s the sign of a healthy organisation that it fixes leadership problems with courage and fairness. It is not his fault that he is out of his depth – it’s the responsibility of the people that made the mistake of putting him in the situation. Now it’s their job to rectify the issue.
Hanging on in quiet desperation is not just the English way – it’s the way of weak management, and ultimately the route to poor outcomes.
Take charge guys – it’s what you’re paid for.
7 Sep 2010, 20:39 pm
@grant10(grant10)-606:
Interesting times indeed. And so many variables at the moment it’s just to tough to nail your balls to the wall and say how it’s going to go.
But the one thing that is being overlooked a tad imho, is the implications of an AA apointee being fired, and a white guy taking over. I just think they are massive, and unfortunately, the decisons about to be made will not be rugby ones for this reason.
But if the decison is made and JW does take over from PdV, does that mean the ANC bow out of sport like a wounded dog and let things take there natural course? Somehow I just can’t see it.
7 Sep 2010, 21:00 pm
@gunther(gunther)-592:
7 Sep 2010, 21:03 pm
@grant10(grant10)-603:
I am sure they define their own processes and have the freedom to ignore them.
If they are results-focused then they will do what’s needed, process or no process. This is what O’Neill would do in Australia, for example. But SA is SA, and we should expect the usual witless and compromised decision making.
It’s obvious what to do. It’s far from obvious that the intelligence and will exist to do it.
7 Sep 2010, 21:33 pm
Jake white is not the answer.
If our core players were rested and some fresh energetic in form youngsters brought in, we would have been in a much better position now. Yes we would have come last in the Tri-Nations, but it wouldn’t be at the expense of our big guns being utterly exhausted (and embarrassed).
New talent would have been identified, wider fringe players would have gained valuable experience and a chance to benchmark themselevs against the best, and those that succeeded would have added more value to the Bok squad come RWC.
7 Sep 2010, 21:34 pm
@<a href="#comment-The only reason the ANC would boot him is because they feel he hasnt "transformed" the boks enough. In which case he will only be replaced with someone who would do more dishing out caps for pigment. That wouldnt be jake or heinike.
7 Sep 2010, 21:35 pm
PDV doesnt not have the rugby intellect to compete at the highest level. Whether he is a simple “rugby man” and afrikaans is his first language etc or not.
I’ve seen a lot more from him for me to question his intellect than I have to validate it.
7 Sep 2010, 21:37 pm
Jake reckons he knows the players, but I also think the Bulls contingent don’t like him, based on their comments about PdeVs’ methods.
SARU needs to give PdeV help, like they did with Jake when the Bulls old boys called for his head.
7 Sep 2010, 21:47 pm
If I was SARU, I’d call a meeting of the S15 coaches and the Bok coaching team to discuss the players and future strategy.
7 Sep 2010, 22:01 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-615:
I think you meant to say “PdV is not the answer”. Unless of course the question is about how to fail when you have the best raw material in world rugby; then PdV would be one of the better answers.
Resting, youngsters, defensive systems, doing the basics (anyone remember tackling?), etc. Those are the kinds of things we need. Kind of like what was done between 2003 and 2007.
Those are coaching basics. If you are saying that they are missing or unsatisfactory then you are saying we need a new coach.
I know that if I were having brain surgery I would favour a surgeon that had done it before. As relates to the very short lead-up to the 2011 RWC I would equally favour a new coach that has seen the movie.
7 Sep 2010, 22:02 pm
here some IOL blog comments from Joe Public
I Hate Rugby right now. Not because the bokke was narrowly beaten in the last three games. Or because we have a coach who rather puts his foot in his mouth than put it in a step in the right direction. Or even our selection policies: Leaving out Aplon and De jong(our most exciting prospects in attack).
I Hate Rugby because of the Fans. Yes, YOU Mr player 23 and the sordid rugby writers and doomsayers that splash the newspapers.
I detest you for your short term memory and for your sheer lack of vision. Can’t we see that we learnt more from tour defeats in these last two months than the last three years of winning? Can’t we see that we have a fantastic opportunity to fix our short comings before next years world cup. Eish. Wake the hell up.
7 Hours ago knowledgeable rugby guy wrote :
hey guys lieve peter alone. he is a great coach yeah.
his knowlege of the game his clear and articulate way of speaking is an example for all to see.
he is certainly one of the best coaches we have ever seen since readmittace.
i salute pete and say go well and be strong…
peter for prime minister
8 Hours ago Fan wrote :
@Bored : you are sick!
Jake White is like a Cancer that we just cannot allow to infect us again. Jake wanted out now he must stay out, I f we have to replace the coach we must, but NOT JAKE!!
“WHAT A DISRESPECT TO THE CURRENT LEADERSHIP!!”
SIES JAKE!!
7 Sep 2010, 22:07 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-621: his knowlege of the game his clear and articulate way of speaking is an example for all to see.
Oh Skoppie, and to think I thought you had no sense of humour
7 Sep 2010, 22:19 pm
@grant10(grant10)-599: Harry Viljoen cracked up
Has PDV got the chop, what happened on ETV?
7 Sep 2010, 22:22 pm
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-622:
7 Sep 2010, 22:27 pm
If Jake really was worth his salt as a coach, he’d have been hired by SOMEBODY in these last three years.
Nobody wants him.
Duhhh… Connect the dots, pilgrims!
7 Sep 2010, 22:28 pm
Kitch Christie white SA coach won world cup sadly died.
Harry Viljoen white SA coach won nothing fired.(did not finish tenure)
Rudolph Straeuli white SA coach won nothing fired.(did not finish tenure)
Nick Mallet white SA coach won nothing fired.(i think he also did not finish his tenure)
Jake White white SA coach won world cup fired.
Snor who was a quota appointment and by whose very dubious coaching methods and his ludicrous clown like comments has brought nothing but shame and ridicule on the boks this season will he finish his tenure i sincerely hope not.
7 Sep 2010, 22:29 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-621: south africa is really a weird country, i wonder if coaches in other countries get these kind of questions in their first interviews with journos….
I’ve saved the most hard-hitting questions
of the interview for last, and as they start
coming De Villiers gets more agitated and
his answers more evasive.
“When the Boks struggled under Jake White
in 2006, his kids copped abuse at school.
Have you warned your daughters what
could happen if you go through a bad
patch ?”
“No, why would I do that? We’re only going
to have good times this year.”
“When will you pick your Bok captain?”
“After we’ve chosen the first match 22 on
merit. I can tell you one thing, though: one
of those 22 players will be the captain. ”
“Do you rate Luke Watson?”
“I don’t want to discuss Luke Watson
because it will put pressure on him. Why
didn ’t you ask me about Gcobani Bobo?
Don’t you want to know about Bobo?”
“No, I don’t.”
“Then leave Watson out of this interview
because he’s the same as any player to me.”
“Do you have a relationship with Cheeky
Watson?”
“Definitely. I am talking to you now, so I
have a relationship with you too.”
“Do you have a close relationship with
Cheeky Watson?”
“I only have a close relationship with my
wife. [Pause] Look, I listen to most people in
life and then I make a choice who makes
sense to me. Cheeky Watson makes a lot of
sense to me when I talk to him. He ’s a very
intelligent man, and he’s a very honest
man.”
“According to a newspaper article last year,
you said you’d select 10 blacks in the Bok
starting XV.”
“I never said that. What I told the journalist
is that I don’t see colour, I only see rugby
players, and I will choose the best possible
Bok team. ”
“If the best Bok team, in your view, is all-
white, will you pick it?”
“You will never, ever in your life again see
an all-white team. And you will never see an
all-black team either. Each race group has
different skills that complement each other.”
“According to some scientific reports, the
white Afrikaner is more suited to rugby
than non-white players for genetic reasons.
Could that explain why 13 out of the 15
Boks in the World Cup final were white ?”
“That’s absolute rubbish. Over the weekend
I watched a white player [Stormers centr Corne Uys] carried off the field after being
tackled by a coloured player [Boland wing
Alshaun Bock]. ”
“How will you ensure Super 14 coaches
select more black players this year?”
“I believe they will do that without me
interfering.”
“Wouldn’t official quotas make more sense
than this gentlemen’s agreement?”
“Quotas do more harm than good. Look
what quotas have done to the crayfish
industry in this country. When there are
official quotas, those non-white players in
the team are regarded as quota players. ”
When our time is up, De Villiers breaks into a
smile and claps his hands together. His PR
manager, Neil de Beer, walks in and gives
his client a new 2008 diary, with gold-
edged pages.
“Wow, look at this!” De Villiers
enthuses. “It’s even got my name on it!”
As I prepare to leave, they start discussing a
gala banquet to be held in De Villiers ’s
honour in Paarl.
“I spoke to [minister of
sport] Makhenkesi Stofile this morning and
he confirmed he ’ll be there,” says De Beer.
“Oh, and Ceres is sponsoring the juice.”
As I walk down the passage, I can hear De
Villiers laughing.
By Simon Borchardt
This article first appeared in SA Rugby
magazine. The new issue will be on sale
from Wednesday, 12 March.
This entry was posted on Friday, March 7th,
2008
7 Sep 2010, 22:30 pm
Selection problems
PDV selected Morne not due to being a visionary but due to Pienaar missing his kicks
PDV did not select Brussow due to him being a brilliant fetcher but due to Schalk being banned
PDV did not select de Jong due to his attacking and defensive abilities, but due to JDV being played into shape on wing and WYnand Olivier get more chances than a 3 year old at Tombola
pDV did not select Hougaardt at scrummie due to his defence and sniping breaks and lightning fast passes but due to Januarie running out of options
PDV did not select a proper A team or a second team in his tenure in fact he did not blood any new players due to a vision but due to a necessity
7 Sep 2010, 22:35 pm
@David(David)-618:
One way to fail in management is to set out to be liked. Leaders command respect.
The only help that they need to give PdV is to point him at a career to which he is suited and in which he can over-achieve.
7 Sep 2010, 22:37 pm
@JL1(JL1)-628: that sounds a lot like jake white from 2004 – 06…
7 Sep 2010, 22:39 pm
“Do you rate Luke Watson?”
“I don’t want to discuss Luke Watson
because it will put pressure on him. Why
didn ’t you ask me about Gcobani Bobo?
Don’t you want to know about Bobo?”
“No, I don’t.”
7 Sep 2010, 22:40 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-630: Yes it does although Jake blooded more players and more POC
Care to name them?
7 Sep 2010, 22:43 pm
Better consolidate onto one thread or we be skipping and hopping hither and thither
better post this one over here
If SA want to win the WC they have to stick with PdV.
If they wanna lose then switch coaches now
Thats Hoskin’s and Stofile’s and Mark Keohane’s and all your choices.
You wanna win the World Cup PdV is the man
You wanna lose then find an excuse to boot him
But PdV is the only one with enough balls to take that stupid IRB manipulated rigamajig competition and wring its idiotic feeble neck.
The rest of these fancy pants dumb schmucks aint got the cahoonas for it including chicken yellow bellied poncified Mr. White who only enters such daunting tasks clutching the skirt trails of his bosom buddy in arms Eddy Jones.
Heyneke also got no clout, feeble and powerless just ask Leicester Tigers how much grit and guts he got
Not a patch on the little tiger PdV not even a dismal patch of his guts or even half.
7 Sep 2010, 22:43 pm
@David(David)-619:
Oh yeah – that would be a pretty convergent discussion. Besides, are the SARU guys paid to facilitate meetings between other people or to have the wisdom and b@lls to make good decisions.
It’s not hard stuff: Employee is tasked with doing X, Y and Z. Employee fails dismally to do any of them. Employee is made aware that better performance is necessary. Employee further embarrasses the organisation with public statements that are inconsistent with the posture of the organisation and some that are outrageous stances on completely inappropriate topics.
Question for 100 points: What should SARU do about it?
My 6 year old could answer that one with confidence. Hint: The answer is not to call a summit of S15 coaches.
7 Sep 2010, 22:46 pm
@JL1(JL1)-632: how many caps did jake dedicate to that calamity wacko jaco
did jake have a plan for brent russell as far as you know?
Who did jake blood as percy’s successor at fullback and how many caps did they have before the world cup?
Who was the backup flyhalf if butch got crocked and how again how much game time did they have?
I could go on…
7 Sep 2010, 22:47 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-633: I say keep PDV but get rid of Diek
Get a defence coach in and get him another overseas coach to help him
7 Sep 2010, 22:51 pm
@JL1(JL1)-636: Oh and rest the players and get a proper selection committee in
7 Sep 2010, 22:52 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-633:
SS:
I am trying to follow your argument. I think you’re saying that the man with the biggest b@lls is the best man to coach the Boks to the RWC. Is that right?
I had naïvely thought that rugby knowledge, selection ability, analysis of competition, player preparation and other such things were relevant. And I suppose I have been taking the “dumb schmuck” view that track record is important, as it naturally is in other spheres of human endeavour.
If you’re right then we should look for someone especially well blessed in the underpants department.
7 Sep 2010, 22:55 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-635: No mention all the POC
Jaco vd Westhuzen was not bad and as back up for Butch he had sick note Andre Pretorius pencilled, but then again spot a flyhalf in SA at that stage
Brent Russel was a utility back, same as Ruan, there is never a plan with those type of players, sad but true they end up playing all over and never specializes in one position, that is not Jake White but the nature of the beast, all coaches do it
JPP was actually going to be fullback
7 Sep 2010, 23:07 pm
World cup is actually a p’ss easy competition to negotiate
Mainly a competitive team comes up against one or two turning point games and thats it, negotiate that and almost home and dry
Its nowhere near as tough as winning the 3N which means you gotta beat either No.1 or No.2 ranked team at least twice or more.
In the World Cup you got 4 pools and only 6 or max 8 teams that could possibly win it.
Its France, England, Ireland, Wales, SA, NZ, Aus
outsiders Argy & Scotland who not gonna do it.
Boils down to 8 going through to quarters from
NZ France Argy England Aus Ireland SA Wales
So NZ catch England and France catch Argy again in quarters or other way around
Aus catch Ireland again and SA catch Wales or other way round unless the islands of Samoa Tonga and Fiji put a spanner in the works which they very well might.
So its France – NZ & SA – Aus in semi’s
And NZ – SA or France – Aus
0r
France – SA or NZ – Aus in Final
Just 2 real tough games to negotiate and its tickets
In 07 we didn’t get any
our toughest game was Tonga in pools and Fiji in semi’s. the rest were p’ss easy.
just need a tough no blink coach and home and dry, WC is about pacing and slow steady catch the m0-nkey
Deans or PdV gonna have the hole shot draw, NZ gonna have huge pressure bearing down and its gonna be up to refs to keep the contest honest because the sentiment gonna be behind NZ and maybe France.
7 Sep 2010, 23:12 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-640: I got it that SA v Ireland in the quarters and NZ in the semis
7 Sep 2010, 23:15 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-541: I remember WC91 and 99 being won by very good Aussie teams, who were probably the very best. As for 03 – you know, it was England – the no1 team at that time.
But yes, since official rankings were introduced, apart from short blips from England (long ago when dragons were flying) and SA there was one and only no1 team.
7 Sep 2010, 23:15 pm
@JL1(JL1)-639: you must be jaco’s cousin…
So why did jake mess around with a 20yr old meyer bosman? It was just one of jake’s ruses to make it seem like he was blooding talent when he was doing no such…
Bosman to answer Bok SOS
Jaco van der Westhuyzen’s days in the
Springbok No 10 jersey appear to be over.
After a wholly inept display in the Boks
crushing 49-0 defeat to the Wallabies on
Saturday, the beleaguered flyhalf looks set
to be replaced by young Meyer Bosman for
the Test against the All Blacks on Saturday.
Springbok coach Jake White finally admitted
that his persistence with the halfback
pairing that played against Australia was
not working and a change could be seen in
Wellington.
“I would be the first to say that Ricky
Januarie and Jaco van der Westhuyzen do
not succeed as a combination, ” White told
Beeld rugby writer Morris Gilbert.
“We will have to seriously consider a
change; one of several brave decisions we
have to make this week when we select the
22 for the Test against New Zealand.
“I wanted to send Bosman out to take Jaco’s
place shortly after half-time on Saturday
because it serves no purpose if he sits on
the bench all the time. He has to play. ”
7 Sep 2010, 23:15 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-640:
I disagree on those who could win it slightly. Ireland are a very slim maybe perhaps once every 3 tournaments, but the Welsh? Never in a 1000 years.
7 Sep 2010, 23:17 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-635:
Jake took a strong stance on a few things, some of which he may have changed his position on since. These include:
1. Defense wins – he spent a great deal of time getting the Bok defense to a level at which we could (in his words) win a game purely on defense. He picked Butch as the “best defensive fly half in world rugby”, he picked physical back row forwards with incredible defensive work rates, he invented the blitz defense (which drove the oppo backs towards our back row), he built the worlds best scramble defense, he went into the RWC with a sophisticated hybrid defensive model that caused problems for all opponents. JW understood that in every ball sport, with the exception of transitional periods (such as the ABs at the moment), it’s always “Defense for dough; Attack for show”. He argued this with G Henry before the RWC. Jake was right.
2. Size matters – he generally favoured big men in every position. This is the answer to your Russell question. Equally it was his primary technical objection to LW. In the prevailing rugby climate Jake felt that consistent winning required big, strong, fast guys. Who knows what he would say about JDJ, Brussouw or Aplon today. We do know that in 2007 he was not a fan of pocket rockets.
3. FB and #10 cover: JW did not build a full-on rotation system like Henry did, with blooded and experienced backup players in every position. Instead he had utility players (notably F Steyn and R Pienaar) for backline substitutions and to a lesser extent back five forwards. Front row was where there was more specialisation of backup players. You can argue that this was wrong in terms of squad development but I suspect that his answer would be a) his plan worked where GH’s didn’t, and b) post RWC there was plenty of time to replace some of his older campaingers (Os, Percy et al).
I am far from unqualified enthusiasm for JW, but it is amazing to me that people give him so little credit. Maybe the knighthood stuff for Clive Woodward for winning the 2003 title is a little over the top, but it’s disturbing that in SA people are so completely unappreciative of the enormous achievement in RWC 2007. By the way, almost any of the negative things that people have said about JW I have also heard said about Sir CW. Who said that being a cuddly lap dog was a necessary requirement for winning world cups.
7 Sep 2010, 23:18 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-640: SA cannot meet Australia in the semis. They can only meet in the quarters or final.
7 Sep 2010, 23:32 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-640:
Agreed that winning the RWC is easier than winning the 3N in terms of consistency against top teams. There are some wrinkles on that due to the need to face different styles, unfamiliar players/tactics, unfamiliar venues etc. But as a rule it is true that the path to RWC success requires less hardcore gametime against the best teams.
Having said that the challenge morphs into a different psychological thing. You have to keep focused against “lesser” competition. You have to deploy your second rank of players to keep your best guys fresh and uninjured. Above all you have several must-win games, unlike the 3N in which there is no specific game that is a must-win. The knockout phases are winner-takes-all, all-or-nothing showdowns. This has a completely different feel to the 3N, as we know from S14 experience.
If anything the RWC is a harder challenge than pure seeded knockout tournaments (like Wimbledon, for example). In the latter case the #1 seed gets a free run in all the early games. SA had to beat England twice, in two games that could not have been more different, style-wise.
As a rule the RWC is “easier” than the 3N, but its a tough test of a different sort.
And of course you get bragging rights
7 Sep 2010, 23:50 pm
jake had his time. De Villiers won’t go, but if he imploded next year, then give it to the successor and treat WC as a tournament, like they do the Tri Nations.
Jake is not the solution in current climate.
7 Sep 2010, 23:50 pm
From the Guardian:
“Peter de Villiers has been given a temporary stay of execution as Springbok coach pending a review of the Tri Nations season. Why? It is blindingly obvious to everyone outside South Africa that the Boks would be a significantly bigger threat with someone else in charge. On the other hand, if we all start writing about what a wonderful man he is, he might survive until the World Cup…..”
8 Sep 2010, 00:04 am
@keo(keo)-648: What does that mean ‘had his time’. The question is can PdV deliver, or has he made too many mistakes that there is no way back.
If so, then who can lead the Boks?
JW is the only guy who can do it under those circumstances.
8 Sep 2010, 00:08 am
You baling your man in case he gets it in the neck Keo
you shielding him from the arduousness of his own ambition?
I wrote on the other thread that PdV may not have all the fancy pants smarts to tiptoe round the tulips and do a shoe shuffling jig around the merry go round, but when it comes to taking it on the smacker he ready to go toe to toe with anyone, and I say bull to these toffee nosed journo’s and foreign presses, the Bok players know who they got in PdV and he’s a street smart little street fighter that won’t back down from any fight, from anyone.
And that is primarily what you need for a WC assault, you don’t need all that much smarts, sure you need some which he should get from his aides and assistants, and his two trump card seniors John and Vic, but what they need is do or die spirit, which they showed they still got plenty and more where it came from, through even being almost dead and buried twice the last two weeks they came back and clinched it once and almost a second time on the double.
PdV got grit and guts, more than he’s given credit for, and he’ll take these guys to the limit and come out punching if they give him half a gap. Way more than Jake could ever muster from all his clever fancy manipulative footwork.
8 Sep 2010, 00:10 am
Rugby911 you also a doubting Thomas unbeliever, pity for you you got no spunk left inside your scrotum
Can guarantee you Pdv got plenty, way more than some fancy pants second rate two timers.
8 Sep 2010, 00:16 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-652: never doubted his grits and guts etc, but starting to doubt his acumen, planning and long-term vision. Lets say JW is not the answer, aren’t you worried about what PdV has orchestrated on the rugby pitch alone? Surely you can’t be happy with it?
8 Sep 2010, 00:29 am
You guys that think rugby is like a game of chess, please its roller ball on studs.
Sure you gotta have some smarts, you got to know when to rest old tired legs, when to bring on fresh ones, who to invest you savvy in, which players got the combo patterns together and which don’t.
And then you need some patterns, defense and offense, get the ball motoring through the hands and into space and away from contact if you can ala Robbie Deans style.
But bottom line rugby is about mainly passion, guts and never say die, especially at WC.
England has shown they got that quality even though talent wise they way down the pecking order yet they won it once and made finals twice.
Aus got it and so do we. Aus got more smarts, we got more gees and deep down drive, thats what brought us back from the dead twice and almost holed out in Soweto.
We been down on savvy lately, down on conditioning, and down on smarts, we playing old hat 2007 game patterns while Aussie under Deans and Henry’s AB’s are playing 2010 fast pace juggernaut rugby.
I saw patches of our first stanza on Saturday first few minutes and i thought keep that up and we drill them. Then JS decided to lift the pressure and give them carte blanche through the back 3 and midfield counter attack and they prized us apart like jackrabbits caught in the headlights.
But we bounced back so hard they thought it was tickets till we lifted the foot off the peddle again deep into last quarter and we capitulated.
Rugby is hardly like chess Rugby911, rugby is about do or die commitment and guts first and foremost and secondly using those top two inches with some dexterity ultimately to clinch it.
8 Sep 2010, 00:39 am
@WestAussieBok(WestAussieBok)-11: JW has absolutely no chance at all of becoming the caretaker coach, remember Woodward after he won the world and then coached a disastrous Lions team?!
JW is just being facetious, there’s a reason why he has been appointed to a premium coaching job, outside of the Lions Rugby Union on a consultancy basis. He also coached a koshius team at stellenbosch and they accomplished absolutely nothing.
If we were to appoint a caretaker I would advance Eddie Jones, he’s a real coach! The fact that JW has known the core of the players for so long means very little when the core of the guys he knows are over the hill and just dog tired.
JW is no saviour, just an irritant.
8 Sep 2010, 00:42 am
Hear Hear Qudeni
Sing it again Sam
one more time for the audience left out the back door.
8 Sep 2010, 01:05 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-656: Someone has to say it! They need to know!
JW is unemployed, why has he not been taken up by a Super team yet or an international team? He was a consultant at the Lions – nothing happened, then this fellow from NZ gets there and immediately the Lions are coherent.
JW is all hype, he knew he could not take the Boks to WC victory, and that’s why he brought in his good friend, Eddie Jones. He had no choice, the back line was misfiring, the forwards could not link with the backs, it was a shambles, JW had several years to fix it but could not.
He needed a game plan and Eddie provided it.
8 Sep 2010, 01:08 am
Keo – what does “had his time” mean? How many Lions tours did Ian McGeechan coach? Coaches get better with experience.
Do you mean it can’t happen politically?
8 Sep 2010, 01:20 am
Qudeni – what utter drivel. EJ supplied an important piece of the puzzle. But to suggest JW somehow stumbled into success is borderline moronic.
I have a lot of objections to JW, not least his arrogance and presumption that we’re all fools. But it’s churlish to deny him credit for what he achieved. Indeed I maintain it establishes him as the best option for identifying and addressing the top ten things required for a bok RWC win.
Perhaps there are better options to step into PdVs shoes, but as with all recruiting you cannot ignore track record
8 Sep 2010, 04:16 am
I dont think JW is the answer . Its going backwards.
Also the timing is difficult
If you fire Jdv can a new coach come in and have boks ready for WC
Also what coach is going to accept the position knowing he has one year and if does not win the WC or do well he is gone
8 Sep 2010, 04:33 am
PdV isn’t going anywhere, only the fools and the grossly naive can think the anc will let go their cherry on the of the quota cake.
So next year more of the same except the old get older, FdP will be back and that will help, but as of winning abroad, forget it.
8 Sep 2010, 04:40 am
660 Coachpete:
Gatland took on Wales and won the next 6N with a Grand Slam. JW can certainly win the RWC with the raw material at his disposal. Much harder for anyone else – he has deep knowledge if the players, the systems, the setup, of test rugby, the competition, the RWC etc. He also understands the SA rugby political dynamics.
I can’t see why it’s going backwards.
8 Sep 2010, 04:50 am
@CoachPete(CoachPete)-660:
Coach, JW suggested he takes on the role as caretaker till after the WC. He propose to take AC under his wing at the same time and groom him to take over after the WC.
Like Funky I struggle to understand how JW can be a step backwards, doing nothing is a huge step backwards, anything else,including JW is a massive step forward.
8 Sep 2010, 04:51 am
@Hondo(Hondo)-661:
Kooorek!
8 Sep 2010, 04:54 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-663:
Caretaker maybe yes. Some of the senior players yes
Some players who possibly should not be in squad?
I just cant see them firing Pdv now
If he does not do well at WC he will be fired the day after it ends
8 Sep 2010, 04:57 am
Also imagine a caretaker coach not doing well at the WC
You will never hear the end of it from you know who
8 Sep 2010, 04:59 am
@CoachPete(CoachPete)-665:
Sure, not a spring clean needed but definately a few cobwebs in the corners and behind the fridge that needs to be cleaned out.
We still have the basics of what is potentially a very good Bok team but I just can’t see PDivvie as the man to turn them into a winning combination. Ask Staal, and I know he has some serious contacts, and he will tell you the players don’t trust him. A problem almost impossible to solve unless you get rid of him.
8 Sep 2010, 05:01 am
@CoachPete(CoachPete)-666:
Yeah well, I prefer having a go rather than give up 12 months ahead of time.
8 Sep 2010, 05:02 am
@CoachPete(CoachPete)-665:
Howzit Coach
I can’t see Hellium going yet boys…….. as much as most think he is a clown, we have him until the WC at least. Only some kind of miricle devine intervention is gonna save our arses from being nailed next year.
Having said that we have a number of players like Brussouw, FdP, Bissie, Bakkies to come back still. Get the boys together, get fit and maybe something will happen, who knows!
hellium must at least know that he has to do something and that sitting on his gat and thinking it will all come together is not gonna do it? Surely?
8 Sep 2010, 05:02 am
The only answer is to hire an external coach, one who isn’t encumbered with provincial favouritism and won’t be swayed by picking the correct colour balance.
But as Coach says, PDiv is here until the day after the RWC so just sit back and count off the days.
8 Sep 2010, 05:03 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-667:
I know exactly what you are saying.
Its a difficult situation and the timing is bad too
Pdv has had the talent. This year was very poor.
The trouble is he had a good year in 2009 and we all did not expect this.
I hate to say this mate but we may be stuck with the current situation and either hope they turn it around for next year or
accept we may not win the WC or even make the Semis
8 Sep 2010, 05:04 am
@whatever(whatever)-669:
But PDivvie keeps on telling us there is nothing wrong
8 Sep 2010, 05:06 am
@CoachPete(CoachPete)-671:
Coach, I refuse to accept it and will go down kicking and screaming! I mean, he already told me I am not a Bok supporter anymore so stuff him!
8 Sep 2010, 05:08 am
@whatever(whatever)-669:
Howzit
Yes remember we are getting back Brussow and Pdv
Plus Juan back there now and no matter what other think i like Jdv and JF at center
We have Hougaard as back up 9 (bye bye ricky) and we need to add
Vermeulen, Potty stegman, and Alberts
Forget Kanko and Spies too
Also Bismark will be back
8 Sep 2010, 05:10 am
sorry Pdv on the brain
should have been Fdp
8 Sep 2010, 05:11 am
And throw in Sir elton
8 Sep 2010, 05:11 am
@CoachPete(CoachPete)-674:
All true and you can add a few other names that may well be there at the end of the S15 next year. Fact remains that under the current coach it will boil down to nothing!
I have seen the lack of confidence in the players this year, it has nothing to do with missing players but all to do with a distruct in the coaching staff.
8 Sep 2010, 05:12 am
@CoachPete(CoachPete)-675:
Aish, the stuff of nightmares, I tell you!
8 Sep 2010, 05:14 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-677:
True but i am gonna tell you something.
Forget coaching
I noticed how the pack missed Fdp The pack is a whole lot more confident with him there
A huge loss this year
8 Sep 2010, 05:20 am
and get rid of Spies or get him a new pack of steriods, cause he was lame this year in the G&G
8 Sep 2010, 05:24 am
@CoachPete(CoachPete)-679:
I think it cuts deeper than that or I well hope so!
@whatever(whatever)-680:
Ja, daai smarties wat hy die jaar gebruik het, het nie gewerk nie!
8 Sep 2010, 05:31 am
mmmmm, just heard I’m off to Chch tommorow……..should be fun.
They just had a 4.1 and a 4.3 in the last half hour….. eish!
8 Sep 2010, 05:44 am
@whatever(whatever)-682:
Good luck!
8 Sep 2010, 07:13 am
@funkyzoo(funkyzoo)-645: “he
invented the blitz defense (which drove the
oppo backs towards our back row)” – for the record and please NEVER forget it, Jake White did NOT INVENT the ‘rush defence’, ironically GARY GOLD did! Chew on that sh*t
@keo(keo)-648: hahaha oh now you’re hea doing your boy’s dirty work? You should’ve spoken to him before he went around flapping his mouth to craig ray! I’m even more convinced now that journalism IS another form of prostitution and in this case jake has craig ray on retainer like wayne rooney!!!
8 Sep 2010, 07:27 am
PDV has surrounded him by a bunch of losers
Diek has not won anything and Gold should change his name to Bronze cause he is a better technical analyst as a forwards couch
I have a feeling that Diek is telling PDV what to do
8 Sep 2010, 07:29 am
divvy ain’t going anywhere..can keo’s colleagues perhaps write something of more substance?
8 Sep 2010, 07:29 am
Oh my, I would love JW to come back – just to see the Snotskiet rants; I don’t care if the Boks lose all their games; they pretty much do now anyway.
In the current fiasco that is SA rugby JW (who, in my view, was a good, but not great coach) can’t do much better or worse than the incumbents. That is unless there is a massive shift from the present self absorbed cadre deployment that is SA Rugby; except for the players.
I reckon SA could produce 3 squads who, if each was coached by say, Deans, Meyer and Jones and their pick of personnel, would do at least as well as the current Boks.
8 Sep 2010, 07:30 am
@JL1(JL1)-685: here you have to blame Saru..they pay the salaries and should have appointed experience next to divvy…all the blame falling on the coach & yet Hoskins is walking around as if he’s the shite
8 Sep 2010, 07:39 am
@mountaingoat(mountaingoat)-688: PDV actually chose the Jedward twins from all the applicants
…but you are right they let Diek submit his application late and most probably forced him to take the dog and pony show act
Saru need to get some experts back into the management team
cOnditioning expert- Coetzee from Bloem
Vision- Sheryl Calder
Defense-Maybe the WP man
Backline coach- Eddie Joans
Forwards- Gert Small, John Mitchell, Plumtree
8 Sep 2010, 07:39 am
@husky(husky)-687:
He vowed not to return if JW ever came back….ahhh, we can only wish!
8 Sep 2010, 07:40 am
what clown PDV knows about rugby, I’ve learned in grade 4!
8 Sep 2010, 07:48 am
get heyneke or Mr rugby = rassie
8 Sep 2010, 07:51 am
@Boo_Habana(suffer_guy)-691: he clearly knows more than you
8 Sep 2010, 07:54 am
PDV went to school? can’t be
8 Sep 2010, 08:10 am
@Boo_Habana(suffer_guy)-694: no straight to college
8 Sep 2010, 08:15 am
Sydney – Triple Olympic swimming gold medallist Stephanie Rice has made a tearful apology for a homophobic slur she posted Saturday on Twitter.
Rice twice broke down in tears at a news conference she called Wednesday in Sydney where she asked for forgiveness for her “thoughtless and careless” comment.
The 22-year-old Rice tweeted the derogatory remark after Australia’s last-minute win over South Africa in a Tri-Nations rugby Test match in Bloemfontein.
Rice, who reportedly is dating Australia flyhalf Quade Cooper, later deleted the tweet and apologised, saying she didn’t mean to cause offence.
sal jou leer jou dom donner!
8 Sep 2010, 08:36 am
Allister Coetzee will be assistant coach all his life.
Hy kan net onder ‘n baas werk
Baas Jake en nou Baas Rassie.
Hy herinner my aan Vincent Barnes wat nou al 20 jaar hulp afriger is
8 Sep 2010, 08:54 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-651: What a load of b0llocks. When are you going to quit talking crp and just admit that you so vehemently support crusty simply because he is coloured? please do us a favour. you keep on stating “guts” as his leading atribute. what the fk has that got to do with coaching? We dont need guts we need brains please, and a lot larger helping than pdv was dished out. Some coaching ability would be welcome too. you really are a complete tosser and I dont know why youre given the time of day by the other bloggers on this site.
8 Sep 2010, 12:10 pm
651. skopskiet(yliad) :
ROFL!!! from teh guy that didn;t believe we could win the WC in 2007 now telling us how to win a WC.
There is no end to yoru stupidity
8 Sep 2010, 12:13 pm
I feel for PDV and don;t want to be another jumping on the corpse crushing bandwagon. By Jake is my freekin hero and would support his return above any.
I liek the ide aof Alister Coeztee coming in after the WC, i really do
8 Sep 2010, 12:15 pm
697. adi(adi) :
Bulldust – Alister has made a massive impact at the Stormers, they had Rassie before and sucked, now they have Coetzee and they are doing great. Ok their recruitments have been good in the last year or so which ahs helped the cause as well.
I don’t want to undermine Rassie but really nobody seems to want to give Alister his dues
8 Sep 2010, 13:40 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-701:
I still have my doubts about Alister. The Boks backline was fairly impotent when he was in charge and he didn’t do much for the Lions either. The real improvements in the WP/Stormers, for my money, are due to Proudfoot and Fleck.
8 Sep 2010, 14:13 pm
#701
Then why are Rassie name mentioned as candidate for head coach of the boks
8 Sep 2010, 14:21 pm
@David(David)-702:
I think Fleckie is overrated as a backline coach.
Proudfoot on the other hand is brilliant!!
Allister, well, i think he is a great Man Manager and Head coach.
8 Sep 2010, 14:25 pm
@adi(adi)-703: Who mentioned his name?
8 Sep 2010, 14:52 pm
@Tegejo(Tegejo)-705:
Rassie did.
9 Sep 2010, 08:56 am
In the 4 years that Jake coahed the Boks, they have the following record:
Australia: 55% of matches won by Boks (I eat my words, but wont swallow them)
Ireland: 50% won by Boks
France: 25% won by Boks
All Blacks: 33% won by Boks
England: 71% won by Boks
Shocking stats if we take into account that Jake is supposed to be the “Mr Fixit” for next years WC.
9 Sep 2010, 14:43 pm
# 707
its all about his surname (Wit)
11 Sep 2010, 05:16 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-385:
Way too late but still want to say, I don’t agree with you here. Any coach coming in now will be in a win-win situation.
Win the WC and you’re the Messiah.
Drop out in the quarters and you can still say, “we could’ve won it if I got the job 18 months earlier.”
The scary thing is, a lot of the supporters would believe it!!!
11 Sep 2010, 05:32 am
Obviously not too late, then! But why sack the first guy since Jake White who had to hold a gun to the Govt for the last WC win?
Maybe Os is the new Messiah?
Or just critical stabilty…criticism and stability?
13 Sep 2010, 22:02 pm
… jakey jakey jakey (whitey)… u forgot u were also in the doldrums in 2005 AND 2006?… Arrogant *******…
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