Bring back Jake
7 Sep 2010
SIMON BORCHARDT says Jake White should be appointed Springbok caretaker coach until the end of the World Cup.
White has been criticised for trying to get his old job back instead of supporting Peter de Villiers, who is having a nightmare 2010 season similar to White’s in 2006. However, it’s worth remembering that White inherited a team ranked No 6 in the world in 2004 and was still building that team in 2006 when everything fell apart. De Villiers inherited a team ranked No 1 in 2008 and on Saturday fielded the most experienced Bok XV in history with 750 caps. You simply cannot compare 2006 to 2010, and White’s credibility would suffer if he came out in support of what De Villiers and his assistant coaches have been doing.
It has become abundantly clear that De Villiers does not have what it takes to be a success at this level. He lacks technical knowledge of the game and relies heavily on senior players for direction, is a poor man manager (evident by his fallout with Frans Steyn) and is unable to make difficult decisions (like dropping a horribly out-of-form Bryan Habana). He has also been a disaster off the field, making several comments that have brought the game into disrepute and made him, and the Boks, the laughing stock of world rugby.
Saru must get rid of De Villiers now, while there is still time for a new coach to steer the SS Springbok away from the looming iceberg. But I agree with White that it would be unfair to appoint someone like Allister Coetzee as Bok coach just 12 months out from the World Cup with no guarantee that he will stay on beyond the tournament (how many coaches survive a poor World Cup campaign?). A long-term appointment like Coetzee needs time to settle into the job, and while it may seem opportunistic for White to throw his hat into the ring now, he genuinely seems to believe that he can get the team back on track. And so do I.
White has coached most of the players in the current Bok side. He has an outstanding technical knowledge of the game. He is not afraid to make difficult decisions. He knows what not to say at press conferences. And he knows what it takes to win the World Cup.
White’s offer to become Bok caretaker coach before handing over to Coetzee (who he says should have gotten the job in 2008) after the World Cup should be seriously considered by Saru over the next couple of weeks. Regan Hoskins was reportedly upset with some of the things White had to say about him in his autobiography, but the Saru president should not allow that to cloud his judgement and prevent him – and his executive – from doing what is best for Springbok rugby.
It’s time for Saru to stop De Villiers’ circus act and get serious about the Boks’ World Cup defence. It’s time for White’s return.
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711 Comments
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7 Sep 2010, 14:38 pm
MacToogie – I agree. The Boks are pretty much an automatic shue in to the RWC semis next year. The only team in their way is Ireland, who we haven’t beaten in a while, but generally Ireland implode at RWC’s. We will more than likely meet the ABs in the semis unless the French beat them in the group stages.
We have the players to win the RWC but who is the best coach to make history?
7 Sep 2010, 14:38 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-393: This is the worry – PdV seems to be NOT AWARE, or at least does not share real rugby reasons that make sense. Yes he is honest, yes he is refreshing, yes he is loyal – but does he have the ability to form a vision and carry it out? If so, great I am happy to be wrong. I really hope he is just being crafty, perhaps his planning has been completed already and all is under control..
JW has a calm and deliberate approach that appeals right now. The worry is that the Bokke go backwards and revert to a style that is not applicable with regard to the new rules.
7 Sep 2010, 14:40 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-397: HG – I reckon the huge improvement was a combination of a few things. 1 – canning D Muir’s helter skelter “touch rugby” nonsence. 2 – hunger. 3 – Heinrich Brussow!!
7 Sep 2010, 14:41 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-399: pure hooliganism and unbelievably sour after a match – the kiwi way. seeing it for myself served me to lose respect for the average kiwi fan. van zyl is not a typical bok fan – big difference there.
7 Sep 2010, 14:42 pm
I think the Bok management could do with additional blood, not necessarily new blood.
Keep Div as the head coach.
Think about keeping Gold as forwards coach and think twice about Muir as backline coach. I would not mind seeing Muir getting the boot.
But here are key additions for me, even if just in consulting form:
-(Specialist) Defense coach – most important, and a permanent appointment
-Counterattack consultant – not many specialists around, but worth a shop for someone with insights, particularly in our positioning and organisation around fellow players
-(Specialist) Breakdown consultant – this person will share responsibilities with the defense coach for sure, but we need someone to help us identify strategies to speed up our own ruck ball too
-Referee consultant – someone like Andre Watson would be ideal, who can liaise with the referee the week before a test and communicate back to the team. He also needs to oversee and whistle in training.
7 Sep 2010, 14:43 pm
@BokEd(BokEd)-403: Could be, but to attribute successes under PdV all to jake the snake is not right. absolute cr.ap, in fact.
7 Sep 2010, 14:44 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-394:
You contested my opinion that the English Team, leading up to WC in 2007, was the worst in the History of English Rugby.
So what other Era had a more Shiit team?
7 Sep 2010, 14:47 pm
@willievz(willievz)-360:
I actually include releasing just before the tackle with offloading in the tackle. A lot depends on the proximity of the support runners. The aim in both cases, though, is to commit the opposition to the tackle. Our problem, which we’ve discussed many times, is that our players haven’t been drilled in these moves, outside of the set ones. It should be instinctive for at least 2 players to support the ball carrier, one on each side and looking at the different angles to take.
7 Sep 2010, 14:48 pm
@rugby911(rugby911)-402:
It depends what the problem is I guess and whether Jake has the tools to fix them.
I will speculate that one major problem is rugby’s success or failure is made up of the sum of parts, each part playing a vital role in the sustainability of a team’s success, but having parts of this system (players) drive this system is not a very bright idea.
The players of course wouldn’t ever admit to this, and they may well be unaware. Those 15 guys are certainly trying their best. Players who achieve the very highest level of success start to come down off that same uncompromising approach to excellence that got them there. They may cut 5 minutes out of their video session, they may take one or two short-cuts in training, and the cumulative effects of all these tiny things in preparation is a player who makes just one or two more mistakes than they ordinarily would.
The difference between winning and losing at this level is very small. Changes therefore should not be wholesale, but rather small adjustments need to be made.
I mentioned this before, all of the above has been predicted by people like Ross Tucker months ago already.
7 Sep 2010, 14:49 pm
@willievz(willievz)-405: Yo speak sense here – but, PdV has lost much authority here – not so much due to his own lack of results but also due to some external factors such as a hostile, treacherous press – this is now harming the boks badly.
a new coach will sweep the room clean, as such.
if there was a time to do it, it is now… takes the wind out of sails of many. I would like it to be meyer for many rugby reasons but not least due to the fact that it would be a big finger to JW and his minions…
7 Sep 2010, 14:51 pm
@rugby911(rugby911)-402: the Boks in the second half were much much better, and they did it in a way that most successful Bok teams have done it, they were physical and direct, SA players cant handle an open game, they need to dictate, this **** of not kicking the ball into the stands is also killing us, it takes away one of our greatest weapons when they have 15 quick throws in a game, people who advocate the open game the Boks need to play are delusional, stick to what works for you, that is the beauty of rugby.
7 Sep 2010, 14:51 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-406: Agreed.
7 Sep 2010, 14:52 pm
@BokEd(BokEd)-412: great minds think alike
7 Sep 2010, 14:52 pm
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-411:
For parts in just about all the tests in this year’s Tri-Nations apart from the opening test in Auckland, the Springboks played some inspired rugby, only for it all to fall apart or for them to conspire against themselves.
The question is not therefore whether we can play the type of rugby to beat the best in the world, the question is why this cannot be done more often and for longer periods.
Peter de Villiers does not have very far to look to find the problem with his team, but I doubt whether he is looking in the right place.
7 Sep 2010, 14:55 pm
Check out Boks choosen for conditioning programme on Tri-Nations thread.
7 Sep 2010, 14:57 pm
where is sodajoe?
I been telling mofos that this myth of the all blacks playing some newly found game that is based on the new law interpretations is bullsh*t! That they’ve been playing the same game as they did last year only their execution and fitness now is top drawer! And i told Soda the ‘tipping point’ for this was the demolition
of france last year! The same french team that BELTED the Boks!
NZ face ill-fated history
5 minutes ago
Nelson – There’s an uneasy sense of deja
vu in New Zealand after the current all-
conquering All Blacks squad completed a
rout of all the top rugby playing nations a
year before the Rugby World Cup.
The 29-22 win over South Africa in Soweto
last month to regain the Tri-Nations trophy
sealed a remarkable turn around for a side
humbled by the Springboks in all three
Tests they played the previous year.
They’ve since won 14 Tests on the trot,
beating the best on offer in the northern
and southern hemispheres, and firmly
entrenched themselves as the number one
ranked side in the world.
But history shows the All Blacks are always
conquerors a year before the World Cup
and then fail to deliver when it counts.
“Not this time,” says coach Graham Henry
who managed to retain his post despite the
All Blacks crashing out in the quarter-finals
at the last World Cup.
Henry’s learnt from his past mistakes and
the ill-fated high-rotation policy before the
last Cup, which saw his ‘A’ team go in
under-prepared, has not been repeated.
Instead there’s an established look about
the starting line up to go with their new
brand of free-flowing rugby.
But Henry insists he has plenty to do to get
the new ball-in-hand style right and rather
than being at a peak now there is room for
improvement in the All Blacks.
“We have to keep on researching the game.
We will do that over the next 12 months,
keeping abreast of what is happening in
the French top 14 and the European Cup,”
he said.
“Just look at games and see if there are
ideas coming through. We are thinking
about what we are doing and how we can
improve on it.”
Captain Richie McCaw agrees.
“You only peak when you feel you can’t
get better. We are happy with where we
are at, but we are not kidding ourselves
either. We are playing well but we can still
get better,” he says.
Henry also plays down his new coaching
approach for the All Blacks current run of
14 consecutive wins and says he drew his
line in the sand when the team embarked
on their northern hemisphere tour last
year.
“A lot of the benefits we are seeing now
are a result of last year’s Tri-Nations where
we hit rock bottom and we had to re-
establish ourselves,” he said.
“The tour helped us do that considerably.
We really set some objectives and it came
together in the last Test. Quite frankly that
was beyond my expectations at the time,”
he said of the way the All Blacks thrashed
France 39-12 and scored five tries to none.
“I thought we had played soundly in the
Test matches up till then without having
any brilliance. And we played with some
brilliance in that game and that set the
standard for this year.”
And in eight Tests so far this year the All
Blacks have scored 36 tries and conceded
just 12 to emphasise the benefits of their
fast-paced, limited kicking, approach.
But there remain two problems in the All
Blacks make up – an absence of match-
hardened understudies to the team stars
McCaw and flyhalf Dan Carter – and it’s here
that Henry concedes there is room for a
little rotation.
“I think it’s obvious we are going to have
to. I know people don’t like going down
there but we are going to have to give
guys opportunities to play.”
Aaron Cruden, Carter’s understudy this
year, has had only 60 minutes of Test
rugby after coming on as a replacement in
the closing minutes of five Tests.
But McCaw is in a class of his own as an
openside flanker and should he be injured
New Zealand has a dearth of number
sevens capable of emulating his role.
Grant Fox, the flyhalf who steered the All
Blacks to their only World Cup success in
1987, paid homage to the way the All
Blacks are playing in his weekly newspaper
column last Sunday.
It will be “painful” if the All Blacks don’t win
next year, he wrote, “but I have to say it’s
been a pretty good time to be an All Blacks
fan in the lead-up”.
7 Sep 2010, 14:58 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-410: I hear you, but I am just concerned about how much power the new coach will actually have…
Will he have a broom with carte blanche, or will he be subject to the demands of senior team members and / or SA Rugby?
I think the players have too much power and input at the moment.
7 Sep 2010, 14:58 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-414: the end of year tour will hopefully settle us a bit with guys being rested and a few new faces having a run, the news that some Boks will be available for the CC finals is a worry, i certainly hope that its not the over played ones.
7 Sep 2010, 14:58 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-397:
After winning a world cup most teams dont perform the year after, that is a fact. Look at England and Australia’s post WC track records after they won it. So a successful bok team who made improvements in 2009 doesn’t surprise me. ANd consider his (PDV) tactics in 2008… in 2009 the team moved back to more structured play (JW style of play) the players was accustomed to and i think Gary Gold had a lot to do with that turnaround.
I do agree that it’s Myers time, but he wouldn’t necessarily make himself available to take over now. Thats why I would rather have a coach who had world cup success than PDV trying out of desperation to turn things around. And with the added stress he just say more embarrassing things, that could do the team even more harm. And PDV will never resign..
7 Sep 2010, 15:02 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-414: “The question is not therefore whether we can play the type of rugby to beat the best in the world, the question is why this cannot be done more often and for longer periods.” – this is true, and runs counter to many arguments of current media fashion for a specialist “fetcher”.
It may be the cutting corners as you have mentioned which may be as a result of overfamiliarity of players for the coaches. None of the coaches is authoritarian and although mgt by consensus is a good thing, some lines may have been crossed.
PdV consistent negative press may also have contributed to a lack of due respect not so much by players but by his assistant coaches… It seems they are not answerable to him i.e. he did not hire them and can’t fire them…
7 Sep 2010, 15:02 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-414: for me it just looks like there is no direction, no common goal, everyone knows what they want the outcome to be but no planning has gone into how to do it.
7 Sep 2010, 15:03 pm
never ever seen a situation where the tail wags the dog so much as in bok rugby…ever !
Its insane….very obvious who is calling the shots….
and he aint 5 foot 4 !
7 Sep 2010, 15:05 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-404:
We all saw Pieter van Zyl with our own eyes.
We all saw the vomiting induced by Suzie, with our own eyes.
We all saw the gougers, Bakkies, Bismark and Burger, with our own eyes.
We all listened to the lies of Hansie.
We all hear the husky voice of Carsster……….and ask why do allow this poor person to suffer so.
And Percy…………..your Knight in shining armour. Just a common thug.
Sit on your high horse,Heavens Gate.
Ride tall in your saddle.
Look down your nose at us. It is your way.
7 Sep 2010, 15:06 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-409:
I absolutely agree with Tucker’s line. But this season was also accurately predicted by Dr. Noakes!
One of the things I liked about JW was his taking into account the warnings of Noakes about the guys. I imagine it helped a lot with our success in 2007.
On the other hand PdV says fatigue disappears as soon as you pull on the jersey. Seems a bit naive.
I really enjoyed the ‘new’ style of the Boks in 2009. It seemed to have the right balance between the traditions that made Bok rugby unique, as well as glimmers of a more instinctual style that is PdV’s main point of contribution.
Yet it seems as if PdV has taken his eye off the ball on too many occasions, that have been well documented by bloggers here. I am waiting for some little indication from PdV that he knows what he is doing, a few pointers that he is aware of what is wrong, and has an idea of how to fix it.
7 Sep 2010, 15:12 pm
@Jeez(Jeez)-419: the England team post 2003 did not have a peak in the 2nd year out of 2005 – they just slumped until 2007.
the aussies slumped post 1999 after the departure of Rod the magnificent, had a bedding in period with eddie jones and then came right relatively to make the 2003 final.
Both cases are different to the Boks. The boks did well in 2009 with key players who were not there in 2007 (3 players being M steyn, Beast and brussouw)
There success was not all down to jw or just to player power in 2009.
Look, PdV does have a negative press and it is now affecting the boks and the solution would be new broom sweeps clean. that new broom should not be jW – this will be like replacing a fire with an inferno…
7 Sep 2010, 15:12 pm
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-418:
It was a very bad 3N campaign, but people in general are overreacting.
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-420:
The responsibility ultimately lies with PDV, he needs to fix this mess, so by all means be pissed at him, I just think people are pissed at him for the wrong reasons.
I mean honestly, to appoint a guy as a coach on the fact that he handles the media well is employing a diplomat, not a bloody coach – it is the most daft reasoning I heard from the Keo journo’s in years.
I would rather have a rough and tumble take no **** guy as coach than a diplomat than sounds great when he explains away a loss in a press conference.
7 Sep 2010, 15:14 pm
@rugby911(rugby911)-424: in 2006 jake hadn’t applied any of what noakes had been talking about! Percy & Plod were played out of their skins by White, wh admitted at a presser that he didn’t have any replacements for them! When pushed on who he would pick if anything were to happen to Percy he mumbled something about Johan Roets and Willem de Waal being his preferred alternatives
7 Sep 2010, 15:14 pm
@rugby911(rugby911)-424:
They did take their eye off the ball, and it is time to refocus and get this mess sorted out.
7 Sep 2010, 15:15 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-423: Meel Bom toets lol
7 Sep 2010, 15:18 pm
1. New Zealand 94.29
2. Australia 86.04
3. South Africa 85.22
7 Sep 2010, 15:18 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-427:
Johan Roets!! bwahahahaha
7 Sep 2010, 15:19 pm
Jake sal nie teruggebring word nie, die besluitnemers sal nooit erken hulle het verkeerde besluite geneem nie en hulle sal uit beginsel ook nie luister na die rugby publiek se menings nie.
7 Sep 2010, 15:19 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-423: he only does that when his missus allows
7 Sep 2010, 15:19 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-423: no mention of richard loe.
Whats cronje got to do with rugby (btw Chris cairns is clean as a whistle, hey… wink.nudge.)
Percy is about as common a thug as the average rugger player from downtown auckland – we all know their rep for gentleness with wives and gfs.
none are the average nz rugby fan though…
your constant attempts at trying to be negative about all things saffer sport now are a case in point….
Or is this just more of Kiwi “revenge”? Was the 3N and 3-0 over the boks not enough…?
Typical and not surprising….
7 Sep 2010, 15:20 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-423: Know what else we all saw? We saw Collins pinching his weiner against his thigh as he pissed on the touch line. We saw grown men – rugby players – sporting eyeliner. We saw these same grown men wrecking taxis after a couple of full strength beers. We saw these same men drinking this same beer and suffering so badly the next day that they had to call it food poisoning to save some face. And then we saw these same men winning the Women’s world cup. These are the things we saw.
7 Sep 2010, 15:21 pm
I really don’t think the public should get carried with this ‘black’, ‘white’ thing. For a country that has moved forward for the last 15 years, I think this is counter productive.
With saying that, this is professional sport and situations like this have seen many lose their jobs for a lot less while at the same time many have kept their jobs due to the ‘structures that are in place for the future’.
We should be very careful of pulling the Jake White card when things are not going well. It’s very easy to glorify someone that achieved great kudos when really folkes, Jake White’s record – without winning the world cup – is well, quiet ordinary compared to DIV. We are also very quick to forget that JW won a World Cup without beating the All Blacks, in fact his record against them is so shocking that that would be reason enough not to take him to New Zealand. Div on the other-hand is the only South African coach to ever spend an unbeaten season in New Zealand. Yes, this has been a very poor Tri-Nations but importantly one has to recognize that this has been a very unlucky Tri-Nations too. From the massive injury list boasting No.1′s in the world for the missing positions to some very dubious refereeing.
It just seem folly to create such disruptions so close to the World Cup to a man that might not be my favourite coach but a man that is statistically a better coach than JW. DIV has achieved significant accolades just last year that seem too quickly forgotten. Jake White is the past, in-fact his record against all the strong rugby nations in the world is relatively poor. We have more than enough coaches in the wings that have been working week in week out and deserve the opportunity a lot more than he does. Hey, I don’t even know if he can adapt to all the new rule changes these days, never-mind win the world cup!
The fact remains, I think I have a good argument here that could span as far as even complimenting DIV for winning a Tri-Nations with South Africa’s most ‘racially transformed’ outfit.
Is this not where we wanted to be? granted winning every Tri-Nation competition off course would be great but not to digress here, DIV’s team is still racially the most representative Bok Team ever and the only one to have a record as impressive as it has. Give him a chance.
So much can be taken out of this years loss’s. I watched some scintillating rugby at times and a team that showed some real character during that memorable Bloemfontein test. I also saw something in the senior players faces that promised the fans that ‘never will we hurt like this again.’ I saw no indifference in the squad, in-fact there was an obviuos show of disappointment from both the coach and his teams faces.
At the end the day, well done Jake White, you will always be remembered for bringing joy to this country but I truly believe we are going through a very strengthening process that he has been a massive part of and is instrumental to the team we have today the the future we are trying to mould.
With saying that, DIV’s media skills do need to be worked on.
7 Sep 2010, 15:21 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-427: Really, OK well I seem to remember him referring to Noakes as one of the reasons he rested players in the 2007 Tri. Are you suggesting PdV will listen to Noakes now seeing the 2010 results?
.@PissAnt(PissAnt)-428: agreed, yet the gamble remains – by the end of the year it will be too late to fix things!
7 Sep 2010, 15:22 pm
nothing wrong with Roets …. PDV said he’d pick Earl, lobberts & eal tollie anyday for the boks
7 Sep 2010, 15:23 pm
Speculation and more speculation! This is not helped by Jake White chirping from the side. Pieter de Villiers is the coach and will be the SA coach at the RWC2011 in New Zealand. Just deal with it!
7 Sep 2010, 15:24 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-425: Still, it proves that a WC winning team slumps in the next year. 2008 bad tactics/style of play- coach’s decisions. 2009 some new players yes,but the core group of 2007 + going back to structured play. Structures that the settled players knew very well, which the new players could adapt to….
7 Sep 2010, 15:29 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-426: yeah, the one way he could really take the wind out of the sails is by stepping down and framing it in the context – “in light of all the external negativity… and for the Boks sake….etc”
appointing a bok coach on the way he handles the media is absolutely baseless…. also what bok coach has “positively handled” the media – jW (no), straueli (def no), viljoen (no), mallett (no), du plessis (?), christie (i think he told more than a few journos where to get off – but he was also protected by Luyt.
this is their attempt at a little coup. for the sake of bok rugby it must not go their way. no dismissal, instead pdV must resign. no JW – simple!
7 Sep 2010, 15:31 pm
@Jeez(Jeez)-440: It is not all due to JW… actually success in 2009 had nothing to do with jw. If you believe that then look under your bed for the tokoloshe or under your pillow for the tooth fairy.
7 Sep 2010, 15:32 pm
@katman(katman)-435: is it true they have killer bees in SA ?
7 Sep 2010, 15:33 pm
As much as I would like to see Jake White back in charge, it will never happen, to much has happened before.
Peter De Villiers must be fired no matter what, if we really want to win the World Cup next year, which we can do if the correct decisions made now.
I would make Heineke Meyer head coach with Rassie Erasmus forward coach and Alistair Coetzee backline coach.
Heineke knows most of the Bulls players and Ali has aready coached the Boks backline. Rassie has also been involved with Province and F.S. players and is technical very good.
Let’s hope something positive happens very soon.
7 Sep 2010, 15:33 pm
@katman(katman)-435: “And then we saw these same men winning the Women’s world cup”… fark LOL
7 Sep 2010, 15:36 pm
@rugby911(rugby911)-437:
I hope he doesn’t. Noakes is an ***!
7 Sep 2010, 15:37 pm
@katman(katman)-435: BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA………. NZ, where the men wear eyeliner and the women are built for rugby
7 Sep 2010, 15:39 pm
I have not read the other posts here (too many) but anybody who thinks Jake White should take over has very short memories.
I’ll give White credit for the 2007 WC but thats it. He has too many flaws (about just as many PdV, just not so many off the field).
Jake would take almost the exact same team except the “lighter” guys.
He has an obsession with big, heavy players. Remember, he has admitted he would never have played Brussouw last year, and he didn,t rate Morne Steyn at all. The 2 most crucial players to our success last year.
He failed to build any depth in his tenure. I think the only worthy subs he brought through was Wikus van Heerden and Francois Steyn.
He also played players into the ground.
And the WC, lets keep some perspective. He was lucky in many ways. There was no serious injuries. Even under Jake, if Matfield, Smit or du Preeze didn,t play, the team struggled.
He was lucky that the Aussies and All Blacks were **** (I know its not our or his fault). Face it, we had an easy WC (yes with a few scares).
Also, the only reason we were ranked no 1 after the WC, was because WC games counted more (I think double) to the ranking scores.
I am not defending PdV. But there is no point in replacing someone with someone else that’s just as bad.
7 Sep 2010, 15:40 pm
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-447: hehehe not bad for you old fella… not bad… those same eyeliner wearing men beat your clowns 3-0..
in fact your clowns won 1 from 6..
bwahahahahahaahahahahahaha
7 Sep 2010, 15:42 pm
EOYT
15. Lambie (but will probably be experience starting)
14. JP
13. JDJ
12. Steyn
11. mvovo (but will probably be experience starting)
10. jantjies (but will probably be experience starting)
09. hougaard
08. kanko / alberts
07. juan (C) / vermeulen
06. Flo
05. hargreaves
04. bakkies/flip
03. bj
02. bissie / chillie
01. beast
* (but will probably be experience starting)
expect 15 to be conrad jantjies, 11 to be basson, 10 to be butch.
Not my ideal team but the one that will be selected.
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