Stormers play down fetcher’s importance
25 Jan 2012
The Stormers believe there will be life after Francois Louw and that the omission of a specialist fetcher will not compromise their largely successful game plan.
It’s been the topic of much debate in regional and international rugby circles over the past six or seven years, but there is certainly a lot of evidence that supports the argument for the inclusion of a specialist fetcher.
Peter de Villiers got it wrong in mid-2010 when he omitted a specialist in Heinrich Brussow’s injury-enforced absence, but even he was eventually convinced that these skills are integral to a top team’s success. This is why he subsequently recalled Louw as Brussow’s understudy for the 2011 World Cup.
Louw had shown what he was capable of at Super Rugby level with the Stormers. His skills on the ground played a crucial role in the Stormers’ defensive system, as he was able to slow the opposition attack to the point where his team-mates could realign on defence.
Nowadays, most successful teams appoint a man to play ‘the spoiler role’, for example the All Blacks and Crusaders’ Richie McCaw, the Wallabies’ David Pocock and on a smaller scale, the Reds’ Beau Robinson. All of these players formed part of successful teams that boasted exceptional defensive records, and much of the credit in this respect went to the openside flankers for the work they did in stifling the opposition attack.
The Stormers made no attempt to recruit a replacement for Louw in the off-season, and coach Allister Coetzee later explained that the plan was to promote one of the young flankers within the union once they were ready. Coetzee also said he would give men like Rohan Kitshoff and Reuben Johannes opportunities in the pre-season to stake a claim.
The plan at this stage, however, is to start Schalk Burger, Nick Koster and Duane Vermeulen in the back row in the first rounds of the Super Rugby tournament. With Vermeulen still sidelined at this point, Coetzee has opted to slot another big ball carrier (Siya Kolisi) into that back row for this weekend’s warm-up game against the Lions.
He may yet hand one of the fetchers a chance in the remaining pre-season fixtures, but he would have perhaps done better to play a specialist against Super Rugby teams like the Lions and Cheetahs who both have excellent players on the floor. It would have been a good exercise for the individuals, and it would have afforded the Stormers’ collective a chance to polish their playing patterns and game plan before the season starts.
On Tuesday, Coetzee said that the coming game represents a chance to shake off the rust and enjoy a full run within the team’s systems. He also doesn’t feel that the exclusion of a fetcher will compromise their game plan.
‘I expect most of the players to have a go on the ground. You can’t wait for a fetcher to run from one end of the field to another breakdown where you are,’ he said.
‘It is immaterial whether it’s Siya or Schalk, all the players have a responsibility to contest the ball on the floor. Everybody knows our breakdown policy and I expect them to stick to it.’
Captain Schalk Burger also didn’t view it as a problem. While some may have expected him to revert to a fetcher-type role in the absence of an out-and-out specialist, Burger confirmed that he would continue as he did in 2011. He also put his faith in the balance of the incumbent back row.
‘Flo is a fantastic player and by not having him we lose out on his experience, but Siya is an exciting prospect in his place and Nick has done it all before.
‘I think not having Flo will change things a bit, but I’ve had a good chat to the boys and we’ll have a look on the weekend to see if it works or not.’
Lions coach John Mitchell has opted to field Derick Minnie, Josh Strauss and Warren Whiteley in his back row for Friday’s warm-up. While both teams will be hoping for a synchronised showing up front, it will be interesting to see how the Lions fetcher, Minnie, fares against a Stormers team that’s missing a specialist on the floor.
By Jon Cardinelli
149 Comments
25 Jan 2012, 05:39 am
Good luck – you’ll need it!
25 Jan 2012, 06:33 am
So who the hell’s gonna fetch the beers…?
25 Jan 2012, 07:05 am
Not employing a fetcher in the past has not brought success, why will it change now ?
The best the Stormers have fared has been when Flo operated in this role, remove this specialised function and I expect us to revert to mid/bottom half of the league table.
25 Jan 2012, 07:07 am
Has kolisi recovered from running into Elton Jantjes yet?
Should have played Shizam Carr.
25 Jan 2012, 07:09 am
Boy, in spite of all that’s been said on this topic over the past while I expect there to be some lively debate on this issue,
I’m just glad there’s finally a thread about the Stormers on this site.
25 Jan 2012, 07:09 am
‘I think not having Flo will change things a bit, but I’ve had a good chat to the boys and we’ll have a look on the weekend to see if it works or not.’
Really, really now. Is the best that this mediocre coach can come with? He had the whole Currie cup to ‘see if it works or not” and he blew it
There is no way in hell that Burger is a fetcher and there is no way in hell that Kolisi is as say “a big ball carrier” – Kolisi is a Keegan Daniel type player, not big enough to be a ball carrier and tall enough to be a lineout go to man. He should be sent to the Vodacom cup and told to fetch.
25 Jan 2012, 07:15 am
Stormersboy I don’t mind another Stormers article at all.
I enjoy the hype.
25 Jan 2012, 07:22 am
Ah, I’ve pulled up in my Fortuner into the driveway of the aquaintance with the 1400 Datsun bakkie again. My Fortuner has big blue knaters hanging from the towbar, and his 1400 Datsun has a couple of emtpy Plascon Double Velvet paint cans dragging behind it on a string.
Let’s see what’s being dished up at his house today.
25 Jan 2012, 07:32 am
This is why I am so happy AC got nowhere near the Bok set up….he is nothing more than a bloody Jake clone.
A big Union like Stormers…..but no brains….I simply do not believe this hit and miss strategy
add in P Grant farking around in Japan and the complete and utter stuff up with J fourie contract …..losing Sadie and Engelbrecht, etc, etc…..ad bloody nauseum.
Flo was the fulcrum around which the stormers pack were built, not Schalk.
I can , regretfully, write you a guarantee that Stormers will get on there moer against most top 6 teams this year….
If you look at the Bulls team who won 3 titles, analyse there loosie mix?
Look at the top teams….?
They would not easily enter into games without the specialist spoiler / fetcher / deck player….
But in a country that thrives on taking hookers to tightheads and stuffing up careers of various players what can I actually expect.
In a game of inches Stormers have just lost a couple of yards….
Fark you AC..
25 Jan 2012, 07:39 am
@grant10-9: The Stormers are a lot weaker this year than last year, it will be an interesting season for your lot.
Apparently Niebenher (?) is going to join the Boks as a coach also, and he was one of the most important parts of the Stormers set-up. I am not sure if their defence will be as effective this year as it has been the last two, and that was the Stormers’ strongest weapon.
Burger will also have to play a lot tighter with Koster in the team – he can’t imagine himself as a flyhalf any-more.
Its a shame for your team, as this year would have been the height of the cycle with reference to team development, and they are now faced with rebuilding important parts of the team.
25 Jan 2012, 07:41 am
Crazy notion in to adopt in world rugby – maybe we can now play our cheerleaders against the stormers – only tighthead they will be gettin this season.
Got to ask by the lack/wrong selection of players ,which SA teams will be really vying for the semis – the Lions & Cheetahs ?????????
25 Jan 2012, 07:42 am
@Tacitus-8:
if you are eating at skop’s place then you should know he does not eat meat.
so expect some hippy type indian smorgas that requires eating with the hands and sharing of plates.
should be fun…
25 Jan 2012, 07:50 am
@Tacitus-8:
Well after the visit your rugby knowledge will improve 100% that’s for sure, Skop will give you a schooling !!!
A Fortuner is a farking ugly piece of metal by the way, but for okes like you bigger is better ne !! Till you step out of your Bakkie and you reveal yourself to be shorter than Keo !!!!
25 Jan 2012, 07:51 am
@grant10-9: Grant you can always join the Saders for this season – half of CPT support the Abs anyway
25 Jan 2012, 07:52 am
let’s see what happens hey…
@RL-6:
hehehe…
big talk hey…?
obviously the lions are sizzling hot favorites to simply pitch up and walk all over the stormers… light-five… a hooker who can’t throw in or scrum… a tight head who’s head is still tight us his own @ss where it was shoved by the mighty lions… a teenager at loosehead… no fetcher… useless brainless captain… useless mediocre coach who knows fokkol… ho-hum locks… a ordinary flyhalf… a donkey and a midjit at centre… a lightweight and a has-been slow-poke on the wings… and full back who couldn’t make it overseas and came running back to cape town with his tail between his legs…
according to all the knowledgable rugga keeners on keo…
so you guys must be feeling exceptionally confident for friday.. and for the season…
fark… with such a team the stormers are bound to be placed 15 out of 15 at the sharp end of the season… the bulls, lions, sharks and cheetahs lining up to hand us our asses… not to mention the overseas teams…
stomers in for a mighty tough, depressing season… unlikely to win a match…
so we’re all clear and realistic about what to expect of such a fuckedup team…? zip pity-do-dah zero nil nadda fokkol… stormers to be the whipping boys of all comers…
but hey … at least we know what to expect… and won’t have to make any excuses when the predictable and expected happens and our domfok captain with fokkol brains is called up every match to say a few words from the losers…
yip… our bed has be pretty well laid out by all the true rugby students of the game…
we won’t cry when we lose… we can’t expect to win… but will celebrate if we do…
so tell me RL… sincerely…
what the farming hell are you gonna say… along with the other lions fans, bulls fans, sharks fans and cheetahs fans…
IF and it’s an almighty big IF… IF the inconceivable happens and you mighty lions with their mighty coach and mighty fetcher… and awesome players from 1 to 15… what will you say IF our fuckedup team and mediocre coach beats you…???
just wondering…
gotta love it…!!
25 Jan 2012, 07:52 am
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-12:
bean and lentil curry served with naan and green tea.
25 Jan 2012, 07:55 am
@grant10-9:
you have to ask yourself how on earth things so easily have come to this at such a big union with such an old and illustrious history.
too many chiefs perhaps. or maybe the old order illuminati are failing by promoting ultimately incapable and incompetent men. its like the way george bush got to the top.
25 Jan 2012, 08:00 am
Tac is visiting fuckadilly?
25 Jan 2012, 08:01 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-18:
hehehe…
would be an interesting meeting…
25 Jan 2012, 08:02 am
Tac. Remember you are what you eat. If eating at Skop’s house expect waffles.
25 Jan 2012, 08:02 am
@ufo-15:
LOL, took the words out of my mouth !!
25 Jan 2012, 08:03 am
you’re blogging on keo..?..stranger things have happened…
25 Jan 2012, 08:03 am
@stormer in a teacup-20:
Can’t be……………………. you said you are out the wholeday !!!
25 Jan 2012, 08:05 am
@justrugby-21:
hehehe
yeah bud…
i’m in for a relaxed season… won’t have to justify anything from here on out… anything positive we do will be a pleasant surprise…
25 Jan 2012, 08:05 am
Brian Habana was the Stormer’s best ‘fetcher’ last season…
25 Jan 2012, 08:06 am
@stormer in a teacup-20:
lmao
25 Jan 2012, 08:07 am
How would this improve his rugby knowlwdge?
25 Jan 2012, 08:08 am
@ufo-24:
25 Jan 2012, 08:09 am
@justrugby-23:
Sorry my man………………….. meant for Gunther at comment 18 !!
25 Jan 2012, 08:10 am
@Fern is not a stud,he is merely no19-16:
funky… very funky…
25 Jan 2012, 08:10 am
Meetings…………………. till later !!!
25 Jan 2012, 08:10 am
@grant10-9: It would appear that we have become a feeder team. AC is the rugby version of a bad car salesman who never understood the basic principal of buy low sell high. He’s giving away all the exciting brand new models for free and paying top dollar for the ancient smashed up rust buckets! We could really do with a Brendan Ventre type coach/manager in Cape Town, who can build for the future and get results at the same time. Instead we’ll probably get P-Divvy next.
25 Jan 2012, 08:11 am
@JR. Huh???
25 Jan 2012, 08:12 am
Ufo
Just sum up post 15 for me please.
Bullet points.
25 Jan 2012, 08:12 am
@justrugby-29:
Oh fark, talking to myself, meant for Stormer in a tea cup !!!
Maybe I should avoid meetings today !!!
25 Jan 2012, 08:19 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-34:
hehehe…
you’re getting so predictable it’s disappointing…
if you’ve got the attention span of a goldfish go to the kindergarten rugby site… they’ll draw pictures for you…
i’m sorry for overstepping the word limit on your site…
oh… hang on… it’s not your site…
i suggest you write to keo and ask him to limit the number of characters per post…
seems you and transformation have an issue with long posts and often mention it… yet when transformation cuts and pastes really long articles from other sources… neither of you complain about that…
hmmmm…
25 Jan 2012, 08:21 am
Start again why don’t you Just Wugger.
Yip Yap
25 Jan 2012, 08:25 am
Nope Ufo still not clear.
I think a reboot may be rewquired.
I’ll have a guess though, someone said something howid about the stormers.
Basterauds.
25 Jan 2012, 08:27 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-37:
wugger..?..
25 Jan 2012, 08:28 am
Stats for most pilfers in last years S15.
1. Coenrad Oosthuizen (Cheetahs) 15
2. David Pocock (Force) 12
3. Matt Todd (Crusaders) 10
3. Patrick McCutcheon (Waratahs) 10
5. Matthew Hodgson (Force) 9
6. Francois Louw (Stormers) 8
7. Bismarck du Plessis (Sharks) 7
8. Andrew Hore (Hurricanes) 6
8. Derick Minnie (Lions) 6
8. Ita Vaea (Brumbies) 6
8. Keegan Daniel (Sharks) 6
8. Michael Lipman (Rebels) 6
8. Nasi Manu (Highlanders) 6
8. Phil Waugh (Waratahs) 6
8. Scott Waldrom (Chiefs) 6
16. Beau Robinson (Reds) 5
16. Deon Stegmann (Bulls) 5
16. Duane Vermeulen (Stormers) 5
16. Rene Ranger (Blues) 5
16. Robert Ebersohn (Cheetahs) 5
25 Jan 2012, 08:30 am
This is good news for the rest of us: The article should read “Rest of the Unions (except EP) to be spared Earl Rose:
Earl Rose set for Kings debut
2012-01-25 07:52Email | Print
Earl Rose (File)
Related Links
Sharks extend key contracts
Lions defend their actions
Veteran Bok joins Leopards
Cape Town – Earl Rose seems to have found a new rugby home as he is currently training with the Eastern Province Kings.
Die Burger newspaper reports that Rose is currently at the Port Elizabeth-based union on a trial period.
Rose played for Griquas last year but he failed to impress the coaches and was not offered a new contract.
The flyhalf and fullback also previously played for Western province and the Lions.
He might play his first game for the Kings next week when they play a friendly against the Bulls at the Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium.
Rose got his chance at the Kings after flyhalf George Whitehead was injured in a car crash. Whitehead sustained head injuries and could be out of action for a while.
25 Jan 2012, 08:32 am
Earl at the kings?
Seems a good fit.
25 Jan 2012, 08:33 am
@John Galt-40: So what you are basically saying is that we should play Coenie Oosthuizen at 6, or failing that, Duanne Vermeulen?
25 Jan 2012, 08:36 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-38:
hehehe…
okay i’ll try to speak kindergarten to make it easier for you… but it’s been a while so i won’t be as good at it as you…
i got no pwoblem wif peepul been howid to the stormers… i jus wan da peepul too ‘member deir howid werds rite throo da hole seazun… kan yoo do dat…? or is dat long four yor golfish atenshun to ‘member…?
i’m happy i could make it clearer for you…
if you still don’t get it… you should really get one of those kids computers on the home-shopping channel that allow you to read the pictures…
25 Jan 2012, 08:38 am
@John Galt-40:
coenie…!!
what a player…!!
25 Jan 2012, 08:38 am
@stormersboy-43:
Interesting stat that.
Coenie Oosthuizen? Never would have thought it.
Has he moved to the Stormers?
25 Jan 2012, 08:38 am
@John Galt-40: Richie Macaw didn’t make the list. He now focusses his efforts on lying and not rolling away from the wrong side of the ruck. If only rugby players were still aloud to ruck cheats out of the way…..
25 Jan 2012, 08:40 am
@HongKongSlong-47: McCaw was rested for most of last years S15 – and it is Sir Richard to you !
25 Jan 2012, 08:41 am
Has MacCheat been knighted?
25 Jan 2012, 08:43 am
@stormersboy-43:
also saying that according to these figures… all the top ranked fetchers make less than one steal per game…??
seems most of them are only making roughly one steal every three games…
if that’s the case… what’s all the fuss about having a fetcher…?
25 Jan 2012, 08:44 am
@John Galt-46: Not yet
There was an article actually referring to Duanne Vermeulen’s abilities as an opensider and how he’d played there before,
Now looking at the fact that Duanne and FLO had close to the same amount of pilfers it does support the hybrid theory that AC is on about,
They key is getting it right.
I think that if you look at that list there are a lot of classic opensiders in there, but also many others too, supporting the idea that competing for the breakdown ball is a team effort, not a speciality,
What the list obviously doesn’t refer to are important aspects like slowing down the opposition ball, penalties forced, etc. Also vital in the context of each game.
25 Jan 2012, 08:45 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-49: Refused till he retires – was offered though !
25 Jan 2012, 08:45 am
@ufo-50:
Remembering that stat is just for actual pilfers.
What it doesnt show is penalties gained for the guy attempting to steal the ball.
I would think that figure whould be much higher for the out and out fetchers like Pocock and Todd etc.
25 Jan 2012, 08:46 am
@ufo-50: You may well ask, hey, and if you look at a guy like Bismark, he’s streets ahead of any other Shark.
But as i said in my post above, it’s not just about steals, although that’s the most visible aspect of the role.
25 Jan 2012, 08:47 am
Stewie who offered him the knighthood?
Or is this another piece of kiwi folklore?
25 Jan 2012, 08:47 am
@John Galt-53: Snap. See my post 51
25 Jan 2012, 08:49 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-55: Do they still knight people from the colonies?
Unless they are being “put to the sword’
But that’s probably not what he’s thinking of.
25 Jan 2012, 08:49 am
@stormersboy-56:
Yip exactly.
I am surprised to see Daniel so high on that list though.
And Stegman so low.
25 Jan 2012, 08:49 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-55: Apparently he and Sir Graham were offered at the new years honours list – services to NZ rugby -McCaw declined as he said it was incorrect while still playing …. What a guy !
25 Jan 2012, 08:52 am
@John Galt-58: People talk of Stegman as if he’s some sort of genius, and quite frankly I just don’t see it,
He is supposedly quite good at all those “other things” that are hard to measure though.
25 Jan 2012, 08:52 am
Indeed stormerlad.
I doubt very much the queen offered to knight MacCheat whilst he was still falling all over the ruck.
Convention dictates that she would wait until his playing the ball off his feet days were over.
This is probably a case of some priapic kiwi politico getting ahead of themselves.
25 Jan 2012, 08:53 am
@stormersboy-51:
@stormersboy-54:
good points… what’s that old chinese proverb…? may you live in interesting times? well… i guess the stormers supporters are in for an interesting season…
@John Galt-53:
yeah… i’m sure they would… very interesting stats though… certainly give plenty food for thought… thanks for posting them…
do you have stats for the that include more of that info…
.
.
anyway gents… work calls…
good day to all…!!
25 Jan 2012, 08:54 am
Damn
Tac refuses to park his Fortuner next to my dolphin-shape.
And what are knaters?????
25 Jan 2012, 08:55 am
Ah so it is just another piece of kiwi folklore.
25 Jan 2012, 08:55 am
I will say this, and this is just based on observation:
FLO was very effective at forcing penalties at the breakdown.
Both for WP and for the Boks.
I’d love to see a stat around that aspect,
Perhaps penalties forced vs penalties conceded.
25 Jan 2012, 08:58 am
just a quickie…
they do still knight people from the commonwealth…
but no way in hell do they “offer” knighthoods like cool badges… for the common folk to turn down… not even to Sir Richie… they’d never put the queen in the position of being refused… people either get them or they don’t… there’s no bartering for them…
25 Jan 2012, 08:59 am
Lions to take this one
25 Jan 2012, 09:11 am
So if Johnny Wilkinson only got an OBE and Martin Johnson only got a CBE, and considering that they are actually British, what makes the Kiwi’s think that Richie will get something better?
25 Jan 2012, 09:12 am
@ufo-66:
basically the kiwi prime minister did a lot of arsse kissing and the usual diplomatic protocol stuff to set up two likely knighthoods for henry and the cheat and had to give an answer on whether they were in or not once the royal office ok’d it.
the cheat said no thank you but henry said yes.
25 Jan 2012, 09:13 am
@ufo-36: hey don’t mention my name in your squabbles. you can ramble on if you want, no skin off my back.
25 Jan 2012, 09:13 am
@ufo-15: It’s only a warm-up match, I would not mind if the Stormers win this match. I think that the DHL cup will look nice in the province trophy cabinet ….. It will have a shelf all to itself and will be eye catching for visitors.
25 Jan 2012, 09:14 am
Look MacCheat may well get a gong when he hangs up his boots (like FitzCheat) but to suggest he would get one now is prematured.
Knighthoods are not offered like Encyclopedia sets.
25 Jan 2012, 09:17 am
I hear that Gio Aplon was in a car accident…. EWM will confirm.
25 Jan 2012, 09:18 am
Knaters, anyone?
25 Jan 2012, 09:18 am
So let me get this:
If Neo Africa have pulled out of the tourney, and we were the last people to win it, does that mean we get to keep the cup??
Sweeeeet.
25 Jan 2012, 09:18 am
Au revoir
The new zealand prime minister doesn’t get to decide on knighthoods.
They can make recommendations but that is as far as it goes.
We need to nip this little bullshit story in the bud.
Just like Brycies death threats.
25 Jan 2012, 09:19 am
@Dawn-74: Bulls Balls Dawnie.
25 Jan 2012, 09:19 am
Knighthoods are dime a dozen
25 Jan 2012, 09:20 am
@HHS-73: I hope he’s OK
25 Jan 2012, 09:20 am
@HHS-73: He’s ok.
25 Jan 2012, 09:20 am
Gnaters are wot can like to be bounced on your chin.
25 Jan 2012, 09:21 am
I’m shocked.
25 Jan 2012, 09:21 am
@stormersboy-79: It was Gio and Habana…. both ok.
25 Jan 2012, 09:23 am
You may address me in the Queen’s English as I am perfectly capable of comprehending it.
What you talk there is wubbish
25 Jan 2012, 09:24 am
@HHS-83: OK
25 Jan 2012, 09:29 am
why does mccheat get a knighthood?
for crying in 2007 like a widdle baby and then grinning in 2011 after narrowly surviving another momentous choking fit?
no man.
25 Jan 2012, 09:31 am
@HHS-73: no man, hope he is ok.
oh, i see he is, good news.
25 Jan 2012, 09:33 am
@Dawn-74:
balls, ballas, cojones, knutsack, testicles, knaters.
if its light blue its usually big…very big..
if its blue and white or black and white its usually small…very small.
25 Jan 2012, 09:35 am
@rangerman-86:
Its a sad day that all those rhetoric Kiwibloggers have vanished into thin air and there are no more kiwi faces to kick sand into anymore.
Even Tackles has gone lame
Its a sad state of affairs indeed
25 Jan 2012, 09:36 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-76:
yes, that is what i meant by saying he does the arsse kissing as well as follows the correct protocols with the royal office.
but ja, we are in agreement.
25 Jan 2012, 09:38 am
@Bod-89: well nzinchina has flown the flag but kiwis worldwide are still running around, pigeon chests puffed out telling everyone they won the bestest world cup ever!
let them enjoy their time in the sun (even poppa gets an hour outdoors every day).
because rugby time is approaching and the midget madman is no longer in charge of the boks.
25 Jan 2012, 09:42 am
@Dawn-74: what are nuts that can be found on the chest? they be chest nuts
what are nuts that can be found on a wall? they be walnuts
what are nuts that can be found on a chin? get out of here b_itch, you got a d_ick in ya mouth
gotta love gangsta rappers!
25 Jan 2012, 09:43 am
Ergo Spies has big knaters
25 Jan 2012, 09:44 am
25 Jan 2012, 09:45 am
@Dawn-93: Sadly not as big as everyone was hoping they’s be….
25 Jan 2012, 09:46 am
“Everybody knows our breakdown policy”
What’s that, Alistair, only AA tow trucks?
25 Jan 2012, 09:47 am
Gunther is a bull so he has big knaters.
Jinne I dig that word.
25 Jan 2012, 09:48 am
@>^..^< katman-96:
Andries Bekker is only allowed to break down halfway through the season.
25 Jan 2012, 09:48 am
Kiwis have a breakdown policy.
They do it regular.
25 Jan 2012, 09:50 am
@Tacitus-98: As in become injured, or break down and cry?
25 Jan 2012, 09:53 am
I think Coetzee has a bunch of talented loose forwards to choose from, but he has no idea how to put the trio together. I think he can’t bring himself to leave someone out. His preferred starting three of Vermeulen, Koster and Burger are all good individual players, but if I were him I’d sacrifice one for Kitshoff. Probably Koster. And then I’d have Koster or Kolisi or Carr on the bench – all very good versatile impact players.
25 Jan 2012, 09:54 am
@>^..^< katman-100:
No shame man. The Stormers have enough to be mocked about without venturing into the territory of their private lives.
Bolla Conradie excluded, of course.
25 Jan 2012, 09:59 am
@>^..^< katman-101:
Brache and Carr look very talented. As does Kolisi.
So if this game depended on ball skills and an eye for a gap alone, they would be certain Boks of the future.
However, since this game – for a forward – is only 20% about skill, and about 80% about physical power, durability and toughness, it remains to be seen whether they will be future Keegan Daniels’ – with a Super rugby ceiling – or whether they can become new Schalk Burgers, Willem Albertses or Danie Rossouws.
25 Jan 2012, 10:02 am
Tac does your Fortuner really have knaters
25 Jan 2012, 10:05 am
France play without a genuine fetcher..Made world cup final….Dusuatoir is a hybrid with his biggest attribute is his workrate-tackling & ball carrier. On the ground he isnt a genuine threat as one would think.He is very much a hybrid and currently IRB Player of the Year….Same with his backup in Fluminence Quadrogo,also a hybrid type…One could argue now that McCaw NOW is more of a hybrid as well with prowess at breakdown largely not in same region as Pocock,Brussow….AB’s used the counterrucking method & physicality at breakdown to good use to spoil opposition AND allow themselves to reload on defense.
So lets not climb all over Schalk all of a sudden
25 Jan 2012, 10:05 am
Have no idea why Keegan is once again Sharks’ cappie
Make no sense
25 Jan 2012, 10:06 am
@John Galt-53:
You’re right. Coenie gave away the most penalties by a player in last year’s tournament.
I imagine a number of those were for attempted pilfers.
25 Jan 2012, 10:06 am
@Tacitus-103: What I’ve seen of Carr and Kolisi has been impressive, but they’re both still pretty young and inexperienced. Kolisi in particular could benefit from a couple of kgs. Carr is looking big and well conditioned and, based on the bits I saw of the Boland game, not afraid at all of contact. But yes, they have a big step up to make if they are to be considered alongside the big boys.
25 Jan 2012, 10:07 am
Schalk is a few knaters short of a Fortuner.
25 Jan 2012, 10:08 am
@Tacitus-103: gald you didn’t mention you Bulls cappie in your “physical power, durability and toughness” examples
cos he is a softie
25 Jan 2012, 10:16 am
@Tacitus-103:
Fair enough BUT due to the lack of precision of the likes of Burger,Rossouw’s etc they are often found wanting by slightly smaller but more intelligent,better conditioned and efficient players.
Case in point Danie Rossouw,for all his bulk has to be the most erratic & ill-efficient loosie one has ever seen.(he was a talented player-versatility).Body position his WORST attribute,in contact,cleaning,in tackle etc It wasnt consistently efficient much like the near perfect Juan Smith who used his BULK and TECHNIQUE to execute consistenty. Burger also suffered from lack of correct technique at breakdown,contact,keeping possession etc BUT has seemed to have corrected a few things now.
Rossouw for all his pluses had just as many minuses. If he was consistent,I personally think he would have been better than Bakkies,Juan etc he mixed sublime with dogsh*t way too often for a guy of his talent and physical attributes(power,size,speed etc).SA will miss him tho however erratic.
25 Jan 2012, 10:19 am
@>^..^< katman-108:
Kolisi will put on kgs in next 12-18 months,he is still only 20 yrs old. he may not be the size of Arno Botha but he is a better player than Botha and isnt small. Has little to no fat on that frame and ISNT small neither. 1.90m 101 kgs.But yeah he will mature in yrs to come
25 Jan 2012, 10:23 am
@mshiniwami-112:
If size was no impediment, then Dewald Potgieter would have been Bok captain by now. Sadly, it is, and that’s why he is now fighting for his starting spot in the Bulls team against up and coming stars.
As for Arno Botha vs Kolisi – I respectfully disagree with your assessment.
But that is surely no a suprise to you.
25 Jan 2012, 10:25 am
The pefect international loose trio:
One compact fetcher.
One bruiser nr. 7.
One powerful, mobile nr. 8.
25 Jan 2012, 10:25 am
@Tacitus-103: You got your figures the wrong way around if you are seeking excellence. Its skill and brains that separate the greats from the rest, more often then physical attributes. Of the Backrow forwards who have won world player of the year, only Schalk Burger is a player who relied on physicality. Macaw and Dursatoir won because of brains and skill. That’s 4-1 or 80% skill 20% physical power and durability.
25 Jan 2012, 10:29 am
@HongKongSlong-115:
Fine. You stock your team with 3 skilled midgets in the backrow, and see how far you get.
25 Jan 2012, 10:33 am
@Tacitus-114: In other words…
6. Brussow
7. Burger
8. Alberts
25 Jan 2012, 10:34 am
@HongKongSlong-115:
macaw?
brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrtttt.
Pieces of eight.
25 Jan 2012, 10:34 am
@Tacitus-113: I don’t think Dewald is fighting for a place because of size – had a very below par season last year and Meyer has said that he is an extremely lazy guy…(clever and good player) maybe just lacking motivation so if loses his spot for a while it might be good for him in the long run!
25 Jan 2012, 10:37 am
@gr8 white-119:
It’s his size.
25 Jan 2012, 10:38 am
@>^..^< katman-117:
Well, we all have our preferred players, and the loose trio combo is a neverending debate, so I will say that Brussouw and Alberts are favourite players for me too. Burger, not so much.
25 Jan 2012, 10:39 am
@gr8 white-119:
his namesake is much better.
I expect we’ll shift dealtd to the kings soon enough.
25 Jan 2012, 10:39 am
Pale shark is that you
25 Jan 2012, 10:40 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-122:
My Bulls trio for the season is:
Spies
Jacques Potgieter
Stegman
With Arno Botha the backup 7, and CJ Stander the backup 8.
I would try to convert Dewald to a 6, as backup to Stegman. Not sure if it is viable, but he was once good enough to make the Bok squad on merit, so that talent is still there. It just needs to be directed properly.
25 Jan 2012, 10:41 am
@Tacitus-116: Your probable power back row: Burger, Alberts and Spies vs my Brains back row Mccaw, Dusurtoir and Read. Power losses the battle to brains fairly convincingly.
25 Jan 2012, 10:41 am
@HongKongSlong-125:
Well there’s your first mistake. Assuming you know what backrow I would pick.
25 Jan 2012, 10:42 am
Why has Gary Player never been knighted ?? Yet they want to Knight Ted and Richie !!!
25 Jan 2012, 10:43 am
@HongKongSlong-115: hahaha good one
spies is nowhere near a world player of the year award and he is huge.
25 Jan 2012, 10:47 am
@HongKongSlong-125: Read = brains? That’s funny.
25 Jan 2012, 10:50 am
@justrugby-127: someone the other day explained that SA is a republic hence not eligible or in line to receive British orders/knighthoods or accolades.
25 Jan 2012, 10:53 am
@Tacitus-124: He has a good brain and lots of talent…not sure about the motivation…if thats gone down the tubes then a trip back to home town could be on the cards…that would be a big pitty even as a sharks supporter have always rated that boy!
25 Jan 2012, 10:54 am
@Transformation-130: yip, we dont need awards from some crusty old bird who has fokkol to do with our country.
leave that to sheeple.
25 Jan 2012, 10:54 am
now you know Kings are going to get shafted at the SARU meeting tomorrow when kak like this happens
Bulldogs and SWD form Southern Kings
24 January 2012
Thando Gqamane
The Border Bulldogs and the South Western Districts (SWD) have decided to go it alone and call themselves the Southern Kings as they prepare to face the Free State Cheetahs in a friendly match at Buffalo City Stadium on Saturday.
But both the Bulldogs and SWD insist they have not broken ranks with the Eastern Province Kings, who are the third union to form the Southern Kings. Already, players from Border and the SWD have started preparing for the match in East London. Border coach Andre Human and Johan Nern are co-coaches.
“Johan and I took the decision after last week Thursday’s meeting with EP,” said Human.
“We have agreed that we will use the majority of Bulldogs players and some from the SWD for Saturday’s match. Then in George we will use the majority of SWD players and a few from the Bulldogs.
“However, there are still three games that will be in Port Elizabeth and we are not sure how we will approach these. Alan Solomon (EP coach) will be here on Saturday for the game and we will take it from there.”
The matches set for Port Elizabeth that Human is talking about will be against the Stormers, Sharks and the Bulls.
Southern Kings squad:
Elrich van Vuuren (SWD), Vuyo Mboto (Border), Chumani Booi (Border), Duane Jenner (Border), Frans Laatz (Border), Cecil Dumond (SWD), Ntando Kebe (Border), Michael Vermaak (SWD), Gareth Krause (Border), Roy Bursey (Border), Lubabalo Ntyanda (SWD), Anthonie Gronum (Border), Armand Fourie (Border), Dean Hopp (SWD), Blake Kyd (Border).
Replacements:
Khwezi Mkhafu (Border), Jean Rossouw (SWD), Marius Visser (Border), Grant le Roux (SWD), Lyndon Hartnick (SWD), Onke Dubase (Border), Johan Herbst (SWD), Louis Kruger (Border), Jeffrey Taljard (SWD), Logan Basson (Border), Thembani Mkokheli (Border).
Cheetahs:
Lourens Adriaanse, Ryno Barnes, Ryno Benjamin, Robbie Brazelle, Heinrich Brussow, Philip Burger, Hennie Daniller, Justin Downey, George Earl, Robert Ebersohn, Sias Ebersohn, Andries Ferreira, Barry Geel, Johan Goosen, Marnus Hugo, Rocco Jansen, Ashley Johnson, Willie Le Roux, WP Nel, Dusty Noble, Trevor Nyakane, Coenie Oosthuizen, Davon Raubenheimer, Matthew Rosslee, Riaan Smit, Juan Smith, Philip Snyman, Jean Stemmet, Adriaan Strauss, Andries Strauss, Francois Uys, Marcel Van der Merwe, Philip Van der Walt, Izak van der Westhuizen, Piet van Zyl, Johan Wessels.
Coach: Naka Drotske
25 Jan 2012, 10:59 am
Gonna wash my dolphin
Grubby it is
25 Jan 2012, 10:59 am
@Transformation-133: so its saru who will shaft them eh?
sounds like they are doing a pretty good job all by themselves.
thats why that hotbed of mediocrity simply will not replace a current s15 franchise next year.
klaar like jackie (but hiding in the hospital)
25 Jan 2012, 11:03 am
seriously, looks like no one wants to deal with cheeky and his son?
the bulldogs and swd top guys presumably dont have farms that cheekys cohorts can threaten to take away?
25 Jan 2012, 11:03 am
@rangerman-135: Ja the Three Stooges Unions have always had no problem at shafting themselves…just makes SARU’s job easier to justify….devide and destroy!
25 Jan 2012, 11:07 am
@gr8 white-137: but i dont think they were responsible for dividing these guys, they did it to themselves tra la la.
re d p uss y can for like to be very overjoyed by vis news.
25 Jan 2012, 11:08 am
@rangerman-135:
hari
kari
25 Jan 2012, 11:14 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-139: and sighs of relief break out all across the land.
cant introduce a new saffa whipping boy just as the lions and the cheetahs are coming right now can we?
25 Jan 2012, 11:15 am
@Dawn-134: Personal hygiene = important.
25 Jan 2012, 11:15 am
@rangerman-138: The Pretenders to the Throne Bunch who will remain in the bottom 4 will be overjoyed at that news!
25 Jan 2012, 11:16 am
@rangerman-135: Hoskins did well the last time in turning Border & SWD against Tony Mckeever, they conviniently sold their shares in the Spears franchise to SARU who in turn – with majority shareholding – disbanded the frannchise. it cost SARU to the tune of more the R10 million to get rid of us, money that could’ve been used for development.
so yeah SARU will be doing the shafting
25 Jan 2012, 11:20 am
@Transformation-133: What a complete fckup.
So the Southern Kings are splitting from the Eastern Kings.
What’s next? The South-western Kings splitting from the Southern Kings?
Then we’ll have three Kings who can travel from the East bearing gift log points.
25 Jan 2012, 11:21 am
@Transformation-143: Hey the 10mil was used for “development” in the SWD &Border areas. LOL…as I said – The Three Stooges Unions!
25 Jan 2012, 11:22 am
@Transformation-143: ag bs man.
that R10 mill has to be balanced against opportunity cost buddy.
and simply put, more money would be lost by dumping the cheetahs (toyota the sponsors) and the lions (Africas biggest economy surrounds them).
the bulldogs and the eagles seem to dislike ep?
why is that?
25 Jan 2012, 11:28 am
@rangerman-146: more kak
Border rugby boss claims EP not sticking to franchise agreement
20 January 2012
Thando Gqamane
A WAR of words has erupted between the Border Rugby Football Union (BRFU) and Eastern Province Rugby Union (EPRU) over a match against the Free State Cheetahs next weekend.
Acting BRFU general manager Mveleli Ncula has accused the EPRU of breaking an agreement they reached last year where it was agreed that the Southern Kings – a combined team made up of players from Border, EP and South Western Districts (SWD) – would play the Cheetahs in East London.
The EPRU, SWD and BRFU signed a cooperation agreement at a meeting held in Port Elizabeth on July 27 last year committing themselves to the Southern Kings franchise. This was done in anticipation of the Kings participating in Super Rugby next year.
However, things have, according to Ncula, not gone according to what was agreed in Port Elizabeth last year. He said they agreed that the Southern Kings would play the Cheetahs, Bulls, Stormers, Sharks and Lions in friendly matches this year.
Ncula said yesterday it was agreed the Southern Kings would play the Cheetahs at the Buffalo City Stadium on January 28. But that was no longer the case as the Cheetahs would now face the Border Bulldogs.
“I was shocked when I learnt that East London had been left out in as far as Southern Kings matches are concerned. I then wrote a letter to Cheeky [Watson, the EPRU president] regarding the matter. A few days after I had written the letter, the match was moved to East London,” Ncula said.
Though the arrangement had changed, Ncula said they were working on the logistics of the match on the basis that the Cheetahs would play the Southern Kings next weekend.
“I don’t even think the Cheetahs know about the latest arrangement,” he said.
Responding to Ncula’s accusations, EPRU chief executive Anele Pamba said the former Saru boss did not have the power to comment on matters relating to the Southern Kings as he was just an acting BRFU chief executive.
“We are preparing for Super Rugby in 2013 and this is the direction we want to take,” Pamba said. “There was an agreement between the three unions and it will be finalised by today [yesterday].”
Contacted for comment about the changes in the proposed match, Cheetahs coach Naka Drotske said: “We’ll start training in Jeffreys Bay from Monday, and so far our preparations have been going well and we are happy with everything. I have heard rumours about who we might and might not play. I don’t mind who we play as long as we get a warm-up game and see where we are with our game.”
25 Jan 2012, 11:35 am
@Transformation-147: i can tell you right now Mveleli Ncula’s loyalties lie with Hoskins and them, he will break the co-operation agreement at a drop of a hat if need be.
25 Jan 2012, 11:41 am
@Transformation-147: haha, sounds like your region is living up to its reputation.
enjoy the ride, maybe you guys should simply rejoin the sharks?
as junior partners with no games obviously.
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