Bok coach wants captain with character
27 Jan 2012
Heyneke Meyer is in no rush to name a Springbok captain but is of the belief that the next national leader should have particularly strong mental qualities.
Several members of the Boks’ leadership core retired from international rugby following South Africa’s exit from the 2011 World Cup. John Smit, Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha and Danie Rossouw have all moved on, and so a new Bok team under Meyer will require new leadership.
Of the remaining senior team members, Schalk Burger was touted as the strongest candidate to succeed Smit on a long-term basis. When Meyer was announced as the new Bok coach on Friday, however, he confirmed that there will be a due selection process and that every leader in this country will be assessed.
Four months remain between now and the Boks’ first Test against England, but Meyer believes that the Boks’ strongest leader will reveal himself in the near future. He added that he is looking for a captain of a particular stature, a man that will stay true to the values that Meyer himself holds dear.
‘I want to pick the best possible Bok team and I want the country to be proud of that team,’ Meyer explained. ‘So to name a captain now would probably be too early.
‘I want to give everybody out there a fair chance, I want to get to know the players. For me it’s about character, that’s what a captain has to have. I probably won’t appoint a captain for the long term, I want to see what the players can offer first. Once I know the players I can make a final decision.’
Burger will captain the Stormers for the third-straight season in the coming Super Rugby tournament. The Cape team may not have won any trophies in recent times, but Burger has been at the forefront of some relatively successful campaigns. As a player, he also embodies the type of character and never-say-die attitude that Meyer covets.
Outside of Burger, there are other franchise leaders that stand out. Juan Smith has been a terrific servant for the Boks and while he is a leader that prefers to let his actions do the talking, he certainly fits the job description. Bismarck du Plessis is another impressive physical and mental specimen, and he was unlucky not to start at the 2011 World Cup.
Meyer was adamant that a previous provincial allegiance to the Bulls would not influence his decision to appoint the next Bok captain. He maintains that he will select the next Bok leader based on what will benefit the collective.
When he was with the Bulls, Meyer always gave players from other franchises their due. In a previous interview he admitted that Luke Watson was a player that possessed good leadership qualities, and when fronted with a reminder about Watson on Friday, Meyer reiterated that everybody in the country would be evaluated on the basis of their strengths rather than their provincial ties or current involvement in lower-tier competitions.
While it didn’t confirm that Meyer was considering Watson as a front-runner for the position, it showed that the new coach will explore every option and keep an open mind.
‘Every player out there has the same opportunity,’ he said. ‘Ultimately I have to do what’s best for the team.
‘I’m also going to travel around the country and speak to the players and from there I will make my final decision. It’s up to the players out there to prove themselves.’
By Jon Cardinelli
102 Comments
27 Jan 2012, 15:03 pm
Dragon Spies…
27 Jan 2012, 15:08 pm
You Keo lot need to forget about Bismarck as a Springbok captain.
He hasn’t got the right sort of temperament for the job.
Just because he’s one of the best, doesn’t mean he’s the right man to captain the side…. especially not in South Africa where the captain deal with a lot more then their NZ & OZ counterparts.
27 Jan 2012, 15:23 pm
Don’t make me larf, Cardinelli.
“In a previous interview he admitted that Luke Watson was a player that possessed good leadership qualities, and when fronted with a reminder about Watson on Friday, Meyer reiterated that everybody in the country would be evaluated on the basis of their strengths rather than their provincial ties or current involvement in lower-tier competitions.”
You know of course how that reads?
“In a previous interview he admitted that Luke Watson…” – the use of the word “admitted” pretty much says that someone asked him the question and he said yes, most likely reluctantly.
“and when fronted with a reminder about Watson on Friday…” – once again, he was badgered for a positive comment about Luke which, not wanting to court controversy on his first day, he played diplomatically.
What is it with this site’s obsession with Watson? Surely it is not Keo and HSM’s business interest as agent? Surely not.
27 Jan 2012, 15:24 pm
Hmmm…
27 Jan 2012, 15:33 pm
“When Meyer was announced as the new Bok coach on Friday, however, he confirmed that there will be a due selection process and that every leader in this country will be assessed.”
Eish, even Fikile Mbalula is in with a chance.
27 Jan 2012, 15:41 pm
What a crock of sh*t.
Cardinelli, you’re trying too hard. As usual.
And your attempts at spin are not even good. In fact, they’re completely transparent.
27 Jan 2012, 15:45 pm
@>^..^< katman-3: I can just picture the memo:
Guys, remember that Luke Watson is part of the HSM stable. Time to go to work.
Semper Fi.
Mark.
27 Jan 2012, 15:49 pm
O F F S , can we please get rid of Helium bob with the springbok tag across his face now? Surely that **** should have been buried a while ago now.
A captain with character , well that rules golden boy Luke Watson right the **** out right there.
27 Jan 2012, 15:49 pm
@stormersboy-7: Cadinelli almost forgot. That’s why he squeezed it in at the end, after keo gave him a dressing down about “loving their investment”.
27 Jan 2012, 15:53 pm
A year ago what were the odds on Luke Watsembi and Meyer appearing in the same article.
What are the Broederbond going to do If Meyer make Lukas cappie?
A sharply worded letter to Rapport?
Kidnap Khanyi Mbau and hold her hostage?
27 Jan 2012, 15:54 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-10: Don’t say the B word. If you say it three times extraball will appear.
27 Jan 2012, 15:54 pm
Oh you guys should follow this **** about Watson on twitter, classic stuff between journalists and keo.co.za staff.
27 Jan 2012, 15:56 pm
@>^..^< katman-9: I think keo has sentenced him to some writing out as punishment.
The first Chapter of Butch’s book written out and on his desk by Monday Morning.
Including the foreword.
27 Jan 2012, 16:01 pm
@kaksioek-11:
***.
too late.
I smell sulphur.
27 Jan 2012, 16:06 pm
KARAKTER is something the players at the Bulls get fed from U21
they show karakter in every single game, especially when they come from behind to win.
27 Jan 2012, 16:09 pm
What bollocks! Luke Watson is such a has-been. This site loses more and more credibility every time they mention Puke. I wonder if Keo would be so keen to promote him if he was represented by another sports agency.
27 Jan 2012, 16:10 pm
@PissAnt-12: i started to have a look, then got bored and checked out who keo was following.
Britney
Justin Bieber
The Jonas Brothers.
Then my wife complained that I was laughing too loud.
27 Jan 2012, 16:10 pm
@PissAnt-12:
Hahaha!
So Keo’s “conflict of interest” is drawing attention all over the place.
Classic.
27 Jan 2012, 16:20 pm
@stormersboy-17:
27 Jan 2012, 16:23 pm
How does Ryan keep a straight face when spewing such horseshit?
Ryan, you guys are prostituting your integrity to promote your client.
And the whole world can see it.
27 Jan 2012, 16:25 pm
@Tacitus-20: Ja
Not half obvious.
27 Jan 2012, 16:28 pm
@Tacitus-20:
I’m referring to his twitter defense of their Luke punting, which is quite hilarious. I think he realises it too, hence his loss of cool and resultant outburst of foul language at Brendan Nel.
Embarrassing, Ryan.
27 Jan 2012, 16:41 pm
@Tacitus-22: Ryan Vrede on Twitter.
How apt.
27 Jan 2012, 16:47 pm
(BrendenNel Brenden Nel )
“Forgot that the keo boys also represent luke. Poor form to try and push their client into the bok coach announcement. #agendas”
Hahahaha
27 Jan 2012, 16:58 pm
Luke Watson has got more chance of out slam-dunking Kareem Abdul-Jabbar than he has of ever playing for the Boks… and more chance of out-scoring Kareem’s career record than ever captaining the Boks…
via mobile
27 Jan 2012, 17:43 pm
Vrede lost it proper with Brenden Nel when he dared to ask about Pukey Watson ” Dry your f*cking eye Brenden. We felt the question was valid for reasons you dont need to understand.” Basically what Vrede was trying to say was that his pay cheque getting bigger by their star client becoming bok captain was sweet f*ck all to do with Brenden.
27 Jan 2012, 18:09 pm
@Tacitus-18:
Its good fun actually.
What Vrede seemingly does not realise is that in his profession chances are you will be moving around a lot, which makes insulting fellow journalists (senior journalists mind you) on Twitter even more fun.
Or maybe he intends on being Keo sidekick for life…
Either way, his integrity has shot to ****.
27 Jan 2012, 18:30 pm
Juan Smith
Schalk Burger
Fourie Du Preez
And to a lesser degree
Pierre Spies
Andries Bekker
Bismark Du Plessis
Heinrich Brussow
Surely the most realistic options as they are all close to being starters in Meyer’s XV.
27 Jan 2012, 18:33 pm
@puff-28:
I think Meyer is going to surprise quite a few people with his selections. He has coached North and South, assisted at national level and achieved great success at union level.
I think Bok rugby is in good hands
27 Jan 2012, 18:33 pm
Potentially add other senior players such as Bryan Habana, Jean De Villiers and Jacques Fourie, plus others like Chilli Ralepelle, Adriaan Strauss, Morne Steyn and Patrick Lambie…
And you have a squad chock-full of leaders.
But there can only be one captain.
27 Jan 2012, 18:40 pm
Mtawarira, Steenkamp, Oosthuyzen
Du Plessis, Strauss, Ralepelle
Du Plessis, Van Der Linde, Mujati
Smith, Elstadt, Van Der Merwe
Bekker, Mostert, Kruger
Brussow, Flouw, Minnie
Burger, Vermeulen, Strauss
Alberts, Spies, Rossouw
Hougaard, Du Preez, Pretorius
M. Steyn, Goosen, Jantjies
Habana, Mvovo, Basson
F. Steyn, JDV, Venter
Fourie, De Jongh, Sadie
Pieterson, Aplon, Mapoe
Lambie, Taute, Viljoen
Exciting times!
What’s incredible is that you can add a good few more names to the above list.
And there are more and more exceptional talents coming through the systems.
If anyone can harness all this talent, it’s Meyer and Erasmus.
27 Jan 2012, 21:54 pm
WTF!
Keo and his minions are farken blowing smoke up pukeys asss bif time … fark No!
My prediction is coming true …. oh it is true.
27 Jan 2012, 22:03 pm
@RL-32:
Yep, the Lions couldn’t compete against the Stormers.
27 Jan 2012, 22:23 pm
Dave it was only a warm-up match … an experimental bench with 10 elite players missing. Things should go better in the second warm-up match when the Kings get moered.
Well played Stormboys enjoy the DHL cup.
28 Jan 2012, 00:15 am
If HM says will “follow a due process to find the best candidate for bok captain SA, then my left field prediction will be that Josh Strauss could be selected as captain if he performs well this S15
These following guys are not captain Material:
Bismarck ‘loose canon”
Juan ‘Injury prone’
Schalk ‘Excellent player but I would’nt let him even captain province’
Spies ‘Most Overrated player in SA’
The only other option (if Bismarck is not playing) is Ralapele.
Any other options?
28 Jan 2012, 00:45 am
All this Luke Love is embarrassing for Keo and his henchman. Very embarrassing.
28 Jan 2012, 00:46 am
I’d give a trial captaincy to Bismark. Let’s see what he can do.
28 Jan 2012, 03:55 am
Why am I not surprised at Ryan Vrede’s latest display of ,journalistic integrity?
What does surprise me a little is that these keo staffers – keo included – have no skaam when trading in this brand of trash journalism, when it’s so poorly executed that their ulterior motives stick out like the proverbial dog’s bollocks.
Skaam? Us? Never, zero, fokall.
The Sharks were delighted to see Luke go, the Stormers, too. Why would the Boks even entertain the mere thought of appointing a divisive, opinionated and over-rated fool as captain?
28 Jan 2012, 10:08 am
LOL
Love this
just love it
Go Luke my man…
get into best shape ever
train harder than ever and keep those skills honed……
Ek sien n ding kom
and I am gonna laugh myself stukkend I tell you
28 Jan 2012, 10:10 am
The so called ‘ conservative north of the Jukskei ‘ Afrikaans HC
And the outspoken liberal left wing Maverick Captain
Surely impossible????
Or maybe a SA Dream team?
28 Jan 2012, 10:31 am
@grant10-40:
Neat bit of pigeon-holing, grant10, but as with most pigeon-holing, it’s convenient rather than accurate.
And besides, you forgot to mention that the”outspoken liberal left wing” just happens to be a racist. No worse, no better than the right-wing racist.
Hardly the behaviour of an enlightened individual…
28 Jan 2012, 10:37 am
This is a great article!
Meyer’s blood won’t be blue
Rob Houwing, Sport24 chief writer
Cape Town – Protracted, often very productive spells at the Bulls over a near 12-year period may give the impression that new Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer’s blood is strongly “blue”.
But he has assured Sport24 that despite his understandable, long-term affection for the Loftus franchise at both Super Rugby and Currie Cup level since he first took up a post as their Super 12 coach in 2000, he is squarely focused now on the green tinge to the national cause.
Perhaps some people may have forgotten, too, that a very important part of his rise as an unusually youthful coach in the late 1990s came in a spell as an assistant at the Stormers.
“You know it’s ironic: when I first came up to coach at the Bulls everyone (teased) me and thought I was a Stormers supporter,” Meyer told Sport24 after his Bok appointment on Friday. “Nowadays people probably consider me a Bulls fan.
“But you are obviously loyal to your team and like every single coach you just want to win; it doesn’t matter who you pick.
“Obviously there are a lot of Bulls players I believed in when I moved there, otherwise I wouldn’t have gone.
“But it’s very important to me to be viewed as coach of the whole nation. In a sense that may be unfair to a few of the Bulls players because in a 50-50 situation I might (be inclined to) go for the others.
“I promise you, if you want to win you simply have to pick the best team you can. I don’t envisage there being any provincialism even if some people may inevitably see it that way.
“I just want what’s best for the Springbok team … I’m clear in my mind about that.”
Meyer, now 44, was still in his early thirties when Stormers head coach Alan Solomons roped him into that fold, after he had earned good reports in his tenure with the SWD Eagles.
He was with the Capetonian franchise during their “Men in Black” boom-time, when the personable young Bob Skinstad was captain, before his arguably career-influencing car accident, and the side made it to the semi-finals of the Super 12 before bowing out to the Highlanders at Newlands after an unsettling pre-match dispute with the administration.
Nelspruit-born Meyer recalls: “Yes, my spell with the Stormers was one of the very first steps toward attaining my (Bok) goal. I’m very, very thankful to Alan Solomons and then later Nick Mallett.
“They’ve been mentors and I learnt a lot at that time, when the Stormers went through quite a successful period. It was a huge part of my development.
“Nick (in his capacity as Bok coach at the time) then asked me to move to the Bulls to help in uplifting them.”
So Meyer can certainly be said to healthily straddle the great “north-south” rugby divide in South Africa …
28 Jan 2012, 10:44 am
All i want is the best 22 to play for SA
From that select the best captain…..
Key is the best 22
thats it for me
If it happens to be LW……great
If its Schalk….cool
Or Bissy
Or Juan
Or JDV
but pleaselet the captain be there on merit
Not another Plod
28 Jan 2012, 10:56 am
Hahaha this is a funny thread … now that I have read it in clear light.
Vrede you duplicitous prick! Punting your agent like that, trying to ruin Meyers moment. Fark you.
Hell was I right or was I right … two days before Meyers official announcement as coach I predicted exactly what Vrede did. It’s true check the archives.
Leave Watson out of your agendas and let Meyer pick his own captain.
28 Jan 2012, 10:56 am
@grant10-43: What freaks me out about Luke Watson is that HE has made it not just about the rugby by his behaviour.
So if he ever gets selected it will never just be about his form.
For that reason alone I would be reluctant to consider him.
He’s like a house that’s been on show for 3 years, represented by every estate agent in town,
Burned.
Plus he’s only got another couple of good seasons in him. If he’s lucky.
28 Jan 2012, 11:29 am
@grant10-43:
We understand and accept that is your opinion, that you want the best individual players, and from there a captain.
Could you accept that there are many people out here who don’t subscribe to that theory? I (we) believe that teams work on something more than just individuals, and the same applies even more to a captain. Kitch Kristie was one such example selecting Pienaar over Strauss.
Just because people don’t subscribe to your view of best individuals doesn’t make it a conspiracy, or ‘joke’, or all the other vitriol you’ve typed over the last few years.
28 Jan 2012, 11:46 am
@Number15-46:
That’s a very reasonably worded observation. However, Grant10 is a man not prone to reason. He, like may of his ilk on this board, are of the “my way or I’m going to throw my toys and burn my Springbok attire” philosophy – I think he mentioned he still has a beanie left.
It astounds me the lack of emotional intelligence on these boards. But it makes for entertainment.
28 Jan 2012, 11:56 am
@stormersboy-45: thats tour view
from your perspective
many many others share it
many dont
I dont
28 Jan 2012, 12:03 pm
tour is your
28 Jan 2012, 12:13 pm
@Hooker22-47: I am pleased I entertain you…
28 Jan 2012, 12:27 pm
@grant10-48: Granted.
We’ve always been able to disagree well. The opposite too.
Long may it continue.
28 Jan 2012, 12:31 pm
@stormersboy-51: always mate
28 Jan 2012, 12:39 pm
Is Brussouw not captain material (when he’s not injured)?
28 Jan 2012, 12:43 pm
@grant10-50:
Then we’re all happy. Though a little surprise on my part – never was much a fan of Mr Bean.
28 Jan 2012, 14:08 pm
@Hooker22-54: eina…
28 Jan 2012, 14:26 pm
There is no better Captain than Luke Watson… and in this respect, his non-selection will be herr HM’s first big failure… he will then go on to ignore Elton Jantjies and JdJ… and then the nightmare will set in… I have never been wrong. Watch this space… disasterous EoYT will spell the end.
28 Jan 2012, 20:04 pm
Bok 22…under Meyer (in my opinion)
1.Steenkamp
2.Bismark
3.Jannie
4.Bakkies
5.Bekker
6.Brussow
7.Burger
8.Spies(c)
9.Du Preez
10.Morne
11.Habana
12.F.Steyn
13.Fourie
14.Sadie
15.Taute
16.Rallapelle
17.Greyling
18.Flip vd Merwe
19.Alberts
20.Hougaard
21.Lambie
22.JP
28 Jan 2012, 20:48 pm
@mshiniwami-57: hmmmm…..looks like you are trying to make a point there bud.
sadie at 14? seriously?
fukkit sometimes you can just wear your heart on your sleeve.
jaque is in japan too, so i think he will pick de jongh.
thats two more players of colour already, i hope you are feeling better?
28 Jan 2012, 20:59 pm
@rangerman-58:
Hahahaha nah mate
Sadie is highly rated by Meyer,practically jumps into the boy’s knickers when getting him into the Bulls.Said he SHOULD have been a Bok bolter for WC-he will look to accomodate the boy who is not quite ready defensively in midfield but can see him being put on wing-has top end speed.Personally dont think he will pick de Jongh nor JP in starting xv
.I know Jaque is in Japan but do is Du Preez who is contemplating returning to international rugby with Meyer appointed.Bakkies never retired and is one of Meyer lieutenants.
Meyer has a decent record with players of colour at the Bulls so I dont know what you on about.Plus his golden goose in Rallapelle.Habana is his “boy” from Bulls days,will look to maintain more structure & I dont see likes of De Jongh,JP,Aplon fitting in that.
So chill.
28 Jan 2012, 21:08 pm
@mshiniwami-59:
That “structure”/”conservative ideology applied to his gameplan is none more illustrated( as many SA teams and coaches through generations) lack of a 15 as a GENUINE attacking linebreaking threat.(Roets,Kirchner). Until we can have a symbiotic yet FLUID attacking back 3 willing to have a go we will never win games CONSISTENTLY converting opportunities when presented. And that will NOT give us the 80% win ratio we CRAVE so much. Purely we cant convert with our backs and put teams away.(add the fact that likes of Goosen,Jantjes,Lambie are 10′s who can open game up but Morne willl always be FALL back plan)
28 Jan 2012, 21:13 pm
My dream team, taking into account all players get through the 1st half unscathed and the overseas based players are available for selection.
1. Gufro. 2. Bissy. 3. Mujati. (His stepped up to the plate) 4. Bakkies. (If fit, he epitomises Bok rugby) 5. Bekker (fukkit). 6. Ratel. 7. Juan (c)( sigh…) 8. Alberts.
9. Sarel. 10. Elton. 11. Hougaard. (Prefer him at wing) 12. Steyn.
13. Fourie 14. JP . 15. Taute
28 Jan 2012, 21:16 pm
If I could select a team I would have:
1.Beast 2.Bismark 3.Jannie 4.Smith(c) 5.Bekker 6.Brussow 7.Burger 8.Alberts
9.Hougaard 10.Lambie 11.Mvovo 12.F.Steyn 13.De Jongh 14.JP 15.Aplon
16.Rallapelle 17.Oosthuizen 18.Elstadt 19.Johnson 20.Pretorius 21.Jantjies 22.Mapoe/De Villiers
28 Jan 2012, 21:24 pm
I still like SA to keep tight knot on overseas player eligibility.Only Frans Steyn and he is coming back mid-year to SA and Sarel who will be in SH still,.
Its time we start afresh-Du Preex,Bakkies,Fourie,Rossouw,Guthro,Habana-THESE guys were GREAT players.But its time we let them GO. The last 2 years have been painfull hanging on to veterans who werent performing.
in their places there are players like: WAITING to stake their claim and YOUNG
Prop-Oosthuiyzen,Greyling
Lock:Elstadt,Flip vd Merwe
Utility Forward: Alberts,Deysel,Vermuelen,Juandre Kruger,Lappies Labuschagne,Michael Rhodes
Scrummie:Hougaard,Pretorius,Duvenage
Midfield: De Jongh, Sadie,Mapoe,Eberson
Wing:Mvovo,Basson,Engelbrecht
LET THEm PLAY
Its their time
28 Jan 2012, 21:37 pm
How long before we get back to a traditional Eighthman, one who actually wants to get stuck in and mix it. That person is also often the best candidate for captain.
29 Jan 2012, 02:09 am
If my name was Heyneke Meyer, I would identify a +- 45 man squad. I’ll favour players who’re suppose to be there in 2015. I will only choose overseas players if REALLY necessary.
15. J Taute / J Petersen / R Viljoen
14. G Aplon / JP Pietersen / L Mvovu
13. F Steyn / F Venter / Ebersohn (J de Villiers / D le Grange if Steyn injured)
12. J de Jongh / W Murray / J Sadie
11. B Habana / M Kilian / Sethole (Basson to improve 50% before considered)
10. M Steyn / E Jantjes / Goosen
9. F Hougaard / C McCloud / Vermaak
1. B Mtwarira / D Greyling / C Oosthuizen
2. B du Plessis / C Rallepele / A Strauss
3. J du Plessis / WP Nel / W Kruger / CJ vd Linde
6. H Brussouw / D Minnie / D Stegmann
4. F vd Merwe / R Elstadt / H Roodt
5. A Bekker / J Kruger / ??????
7. J Smith / S Burger / Coetzee
8. W Alberts / P Spies / J Strauss
29 Jan 2012, 08:05 am
Nothing personal in this…
I just don’t think Luke Watson is good enough to make the Bok team on merit… he may have been at one stage but we have such a lot of really good established and up and coming loosies that Watson will never make it again…
Also by selecting him the coach will be taking on a sideshow circus that will unsettle whatever equilibrium he establishes in the team… Journalists WILL make sure that the whole puke on my jersey thing is always contentious and stoke those fires to sell their stories…
Which brings me to the main reason why I say Watson will never make it back… Far from helping his cause… the shameless, integrity-less, commerce-driven agenda of keo and his team to push Watson into Heynekes face and team will derail whatever slim chance Watson may have had… No coach wants to feel pushed… and his selecting Watson after keos public pr campaign will destroy the credibility Heyneke is trying so hard to establish…
Watsons best chance would have been by playing on the field and trying to prove there that he is indispensable to the Bok cause…
Keo has just ruined whatever slim chance that remained for Watson EARN his selection on merit… If he ever gets picked perception will ensure there will always be question and doubt… And these are problems Meyer would be foolish to take onboard… It will be tough enough for him as it is…
Not tonight Josephine… End of… put the pompoms away…
29 Jan 2012, 10:07 am
LW will have my 100% support bok as Bok captain
IF
He makes team on merit.
Reason I LOATHED plod was he was nothing more and nothing less than a fat boy that should never have played for SA in 2010 and 2011….
Oncurrent form LW is in the same boat
Challenge to LW is to get his game in order….if good enough, screw the rubbish around him, select him on PLAYING ABILITY …..if he is good enough only…
29 Jan 2012, 10:20 am
@grant10-67:
He will never be good enough to make the side on merit. So don’t even go down that road……… the love affair with the midget is pretty sad! Your biggest challenge now is not to be a hypecrite after your extended media campaign against Smit.
29 Jan 2012, 10:38 am
@whatever-68: you just lucky the same rules that apply now did not apply in 2010 or 2011……
Or you 1 of those fools who actually believed Plod was good for SA Rugby in 2010 and 2011?
Ag…dont answer…I have better things to do with my time
29 Jan 2012, 10:49 am
Grant… as an outsider it’s easy for you to say screw the rubbish around watson… yet on the inside with the team unity and dynamic on the line… to say nothing of reputations, jobs and careers… it would be foolhardy to bring a factor that will force players to choose sides…
You also need to avoid falling into the same trap you have long accused others of in their support of john smit by saying the ‘other stuff’ doesn’t matter…
It’s also very telling that in the lead up to heynekes appointment when you’ve spoken about our loose forward make up and possible captains… You haven’t mentioned luke watson once in either debate… so far have his fortunes fallen that even you never thought of him spontaneously as a probable or even a possible option in either role…
So how can he even be considered on merit if even you didn’t consider him…?
And waiting and hoping for him to hit form so that he can be made captain is no different to what you said about the people backing john smit…
Leave watson alone to do his own talking on the field … the more the keo writers and you insist he should be included for whatever reasons… the more contentious and divisive you will make the whole issue of his selection…
In short… you’ll be doing him no favours at all…
29 Jan 2012, 11:08 am
A Springbok Rugby captain should be a uniting force, not a dividing one. Think Francois Pienaar, Morne Du Plessis, Teichmann, John Smit. They are loved and respected across the provinces by 99% of the population.
Just the name Luke Watson polarises people on a level that few players do.
That in my book says a great deal about his suitability as captain.
29 Jan 2012, 12:35 pm
Jake White created the mythic martyr that is Luke Watson
Jake White was so sh’t scared of this 21 year old kid who definitely possesses the ‘character’ that a captain requires that Meyer is seeking, that he personally went out his way to deny and ostracize and ridicule and poison not only his little collect of Ja broertjies minds but also those of the broader sa rugby public as well.
The result of which you see in cowardly responses to his potential eligibility here.
If Meyer is seeking ‘character’ in a captain, he won’t find such commodity in either of Burger or Spies or FdP or Brussow or Bismark or even if he seeks it in Matfield or Smith or JdV who are all too old by now.
He will have to seek it in someone like Watson or Bekker or Louw or Botha or perhaps Chili boy or Kolisi or Koster if he’s ready to break the poisonous mold that Jake White created and PdV cowardly perpetuated in his pathetic paranoid closed minded wake.
29 Jan 2012, 12:49 pm
Luke Watson or Joe Van Niekerk were the two most perfect choices as Bok captain at the inauguration of PdV who chickened out and followed the advice of Keohane and Oberholzer to go fetch and install John Smit instead, the remaining 4 years of dismal kick and chase trash under the auspices of John Smit and FdP is the direct result.
Meyer like White like Pdv all know that Watson most definitely possesses that unique ingredient called ‘character’ required in a captain. But whether he got the balls to break the poisonous chalice that White in his pitiful cowardice orchestrated and created is perhaps expecting him to be bolder than even he himself has the capacity to project. Like Pdv before him he’ll probably chicken out and go for the ‘safe’ route instead.
Which leaves him the following choices
Botha (Bulls No.8), Bekker, Louw (at Bath – Watson’s pal), Chiliboy, or one of a left field selection in somebody flying under the radar yet.
29 Jan 2012, 19:35 pm
@ufo-70: LW as bok captain has never been on my agenda….he currently is not good enough im…..so true to my word I do not want a bok cappie that cant be there on merit….my take has and always will be the capppie has to be good enough to make the actual team…..nt like fat boy in 2010 and 2011….
Thats why its not an issue for me.
However, should LW prove his value I would want him there in bok team…on merit….then I say Fark the politics, etc….if he is good enough, choose him….
klaar
farkthe right wing racists whosee him as divise….many many of saffas dont see this….and why must Heyneke have to bow down to farken p ricks who cant forgive the kid for a silly remark made years ago?
Fark that man…
29 Jan 2012, 19:39 pm
The narrow minded ******** who cant forgive LW are nothing more than w ankers….why pander to there whims…
plain and simple….fark them !
29 Jan 2012, 20:15 pm
@grant10-75: Grant.
Have you never said “ill never forgive Plod yadda yadda” ?
I think you have
The fact that I don’t think he;s a captain’s arse has nothing to do with forgiveness,
I simply think he’s unsuitable.
And I’m pretty sure that I’m in the overwhelming majority in this too,
29 Jan 2012, 20:21 pm
@stormersboy-76: Plod was an abomination……he knew he was not good enough….Bissy was far better….and Plod still road that gravy train….
I dont believe LW is good enough….on current form….
if that changes??
Then I will voice myopinion.
Have I forgiven Plod? Not yet….my weakness….not anyone elses….
What did LW do that was so bad anyway…? Voice an opinion ? And he has matured ….so mush so that he went to Bath and replaced the Pom Captain as captain!!
No man….you okes are far too narrow minded…..
IMO
And remember …..there are 50 million people in this country…..I bet you actually in the minority anyway…..
29 Jan 2012, 20:25 pm
for someone who is such a kak captain…..check Watsons CV
seems he captained every team he played for
HM may just be impressed by his ‘ strong character’…..
watch out boys….LW hits top form you okes may be swallowing hard on your prejudice still
29 Jan 2012, 20:41 pm
@grant10-77: You are forgetting the back room machinations of Cheeky and co in getting PDV installed at the last minute at the expense of HM.
If ever there was a “fat boys club” it’s them.
Do you think Luke had nothing to do with that?
Well I’m pretty sure he was in it with his Dad from the beginning. Do you think that Heyneke will not remember that?
I’ts a moot point really. Luke is 27 years old, playing 2nd division rugby.
A few years late and a whole division short.
29 Jan 2012, 20:48 pm
@stormersboy-79: all I am saying
form
merit
add character
thats it
HM seems to be a man of integrity
If he sticks to his word…thats good enough for me…
Remember it was Jake who came to LW asking for a reconciliation, that was instantly given.
LW has sad sorry thats nough for me
the rest is up to LW
29 Jan 2012, 21:36 pm
Personally, I think Watson was a bloody fine player and captain. I’m not privy to his current form and if he’s not up to Bok standard then I agree with G10, he shouldn’t be considered for selection. However, if he is(based exclusively on merit), then why should he be excluded? Captaincy selection can only be judged on the basis of the respect in which he’d be held by the other Bok players in the frame at the time, I’d like to think. The general public’s opinion means not a jot if the team is winning. Public support will simply fall in line based on the time-honored tradition of backing a winning cause.
29 Jan 2012, 21:47 pm
@TASSIES-81: hi Tassies…
respect….
UFO…..Stormers boy
A purely hypothetical question….
Would you rather have LW left out Bok team for reasons other than rugby, should he be in top form and able to make the team on merit?
A sincere and serious question
29 Jan 2012, 21:55 pm
@grant10-82: No
I don’t have anything personal against Luke playing.
Just captaining.
29 Jan 2012, 23:20 pm
@grant10-82:
you see grant, the problem is that you always seem to think you are the only honest and sincere person who blogs here… when there’s a difference of opinion or an issue at hand… you call such people “fools”, “dishonest”, etc etc…
now you say heyneke is a “man of integrity” and “if he keeps his word” etc… so when in your opinion watson is good enough and should be included… and should meyer perchance not share your opinion… then suddenly he is no longer a man of integrity and has not kept his word…
you’ve gotta stop this this of “i am right and everyone else is dishonest, foolish, whatever”… 99 per cent of the time it is merely a difference of opinion and neither wrong nor right but simply different…
you say watson has captained every team he’s played for, as if that proves absolutely he is the perfect man for the job… yet schalk burger and others have also captained every team they’ve played for… in addition schalk is currently captaining what has been the top sa s15 team for the last two seasons… THAT is current form if ever there was… so he ticks all the boxes as Watson and more… plus current form… but you’re not willing to whole-heartedly endorse him as captain…? and go even further by suggesting that “if schalk was honest he would admit he’s not the best number six and shouldn’t play number six” (or words very similar)… so if he is selected as an opensider he should somehow refuse to play or be exposed an dishonest…?
i mean for heaven’s sake grant… who the hell are you to declare who is honest and who is not… many people here disagree with you on many things… i disagree with you on some points… yet they and I don’t call you or even intimated you are dishonest because of it… i just accept we see things differently and it doesn’t make anyone any more or less honest…
schalk burger and allister coetzee and john smit and luke watson are all just people trying to jobs they love to the best of their abilities for as long as they can… as will heyneke meyer be…
sure there’s a fine line up to which they all approach over which they should retire… but sports is infamous for people hanging on too long… they doesn’t make them dishonest or foolish… and it certainly is their choice and their’s only to make… and not for us outsiders to make such personal and spiteful comments about something with which we will never have to deal and ever know what it is like to make such decisions… which must be even harder the higher someone climbs…
as far as watson is concerned… I have long defended his right to say whatever he wants to say… along with you and others I called for his inclusion in the bok team when I believed his form warranted it… my opinion has not changed simply because I haven’t gone on ad nauseum about it…
but Watson was not in great form for bath (unlike francois louw who is also captaining them and giving MOTM worthy performances almost every weekend) he is leading a second division side now… and has not been in good form there either… and lead them to a loss in their ‘final’… so his form is way off… and can only really be judged as improved next year when he leads the kings against s15 opposition… if his form improves… then and only then should we even begin discussing his name as captain…
as I said earlier… even you never even mentioned Watson until after ryan’s post…
but like it or not… however much I back freedom of speech… no man is an island and we have to be accountable for what we say… and accept that rightly or wrongly other people may react and behave based on what is said… especially if what is said is intended to incite a reaction… as was his puke comment…
the team dynamic is a very important thing in rugby… we often here people praising a happy united team… so even if Watson did get back to form… I would not necessarily pick him as a player or as captain… we’re only talking about watson’s improvement etc…. what about all the other young players who’ve impressed… the team will be settled by then… and hopefully winning… so why would I throw out my current captain and player… just because others believe luke watson has an ‘aura’ of leadership… that would be forcing every player in the squad to make a choice to be for or against luke watson… to accept him or not… to form two cliques in the squad…
now you and I can stand on the outside and stand on our individual principle… but the coach has to be a lot more pragmatic and do what is best for the team for the springboks… meyer has stated several times already that everything he does will be for the good of the team.. that is what I’m going to remember and hold him to…
it is just as wrong… IMO… to insist luke Watson is included because of who is… as it is to insist he is excluded for who he is… the only question asked IMO should be how will either affect the equilibrium of the team and will it benefit the team…
the fact is… by his own admission… luke Watson is a politician first and a rugby player second… until that changes… and people like keo and ryan stop adding fuel to and stoking a fire that had burned downed to the embers… i don’t believe the boks need the added complications that his inclusion will bring… let them focus on rugby and winning every game they can…
i don’t have anything against watson at all… my only interest is in the bok team doing as well as it possibly can… without any unnecessary circus sideshows…
30 Jan 2012, 04:57 am
Watson is kak, and always will be………trying to ply his trade on the back of his fatrhers “legacy”. He is divisive and a big headed knobend to boot.
Captain of a kak 2nd div rugby side and tossers are talking him up as a potential Bok captain.?……..I could puke!
30 Jan 2012, 06:04 am
@whatever-85: Wait until the Bulls season gets under way. The Bulls have all the ingredients to be a great team again, except for captaincy and No. 8. Spies WILL implode this season. Watson could be fast tracked into the Bulls and therefore the Boks and go from the despised “Puke” to the peoples champion!
30 Jan 2012, 06:35 am
84 @ ufo that was really elequent and well put.
30 Jan 2012, 08:02 am
@ufo-84: shoo….
You seem to be more interested in dissecting me than answering the question
Forget I asked
30 Jan 2012, 08:03 am
@whatever-85: well dont let me stop you
30 Jan 2012, 08:04 am
Victor Matfield to captain the Boks in their first game under Heyneke.
30 Jan 2012, 08:10 am
@Taahirah-90: while A Bekker sits on the bench?
Back to the good old Fat Boys Club Days?
30 Jan 2012, 08:15 am
@Taahirah-90:
30 Jan 2012, 08:24 am
@grant10-91: Just following the interviews with Heyneke Meyer.
Interim captain? Clue 1
Clue 2 is being asked about Victor Matfield in an interview, Heyneke saying that in his opinion victor is good enough to play international rugby until the age of 36.
Clue 3 being the come back talk which Victor hasnt outright denied.
As for Andries? Yeah, that was my first thought as well. I do feel sorry for him, seems he’s never going to escape Vic’s shadow. Though he is in the same position Danie Rossouw was in with Bakkies. Thats life, I guess.
30 Jan 2012, 08:27 am
@grant10-88:
well… if that’s what you read into it grant, that’s your prerogative…
you asked a question… i answered your question… but felt i had to qualify it so that you wouldn’t jump to any further conclusions… it’s easy to say ‘what about watson… or this… or that…’ and not always easy to answer in three words..
you are the one lumping anyone who does not agree with you on watson as right wing racists and wankers unwilling to forgive…
i was simply trying to show you that it is possible to honest and not have a right wing agenda and not necessarily be a wanker and still not agree with you…
you always say you respect honesty and nearly always state that you’re just being honest… yet when i’m trying to honestly explain a question you asked… i’m more interested in dissecting you…?
would you prefer me simply showing you disrespect by ignoring your question…?
i have often stated on keo that people should play the ball and not the man… in other words debate what each other says… and not get personal… unfortunately to fully explain my answer to your question it is necessary to mention things you’ve said in the past…
30 Jan 2012, 08:32 am
@ufo-84:
anybody who disagrees with grantie and just buggery is not a real “kenner”.
they are the only people with valid opinions here.
30 Jan 2012, 08:33 am
@ufo-84: @ufo-94:
30 Jan 2012, 08:42 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-95:
@stormersboy-96:
yeah… sometimes it does seem that way… although i must say grant and jr and i normally just agree to disagree…
oh well… !!
30 Jan 2012, 08:44 am
my New Years Ersolution precludes me from answering….
I plead the 5 th
wORK TO DO
OUTTA HERE
30 Jan 2012, 09:01 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-95:
Have you ever offered a propoer rugby opinion ??
You are a blogger of the worst kind, you latch onto other people comments /opinion, and depending on your view on the matter attempt to be clever/ricicule with those comments.
You fool very few here the Stormersboy, Katman , Treehugger etc might think you are very funny, I see right through you bud, you a farken poor mans clown with no real stance/ view on just about anything , a “floater” of the highest order !!!
30 Jan 2012, 09:03 am
propoer = proper
30 Jan 2012, 09:06 am
@justrugby-99:
judgmental much?
cry me a river you farken lightweight.
et will be here soon and you can chat about the Bond’s next move.
lekker.
twat.
31 Jan 2012, 09:47 am
@Taahirah-90:
That would mean Victor having to play in the S15 to get game fit. If he does appear in the Bulls squad then we’ll know it’s on.
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